Match Mishaps

[Paul Darlington]

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You need to worry about M1, OP. The nuances of applying to and ranking programs is above your current paygrade.

Dude its like you are verywhere trying to shut people down. How about u worry about studying and stay off sdn

 

[DermViser]

Honestly, after going through the match process, I think delusions of grandeur can often explain why people don't match. Ie... if >50% of people think the are better than average drivers, then >90% of med students think they are better than the average med student. I have met a number of present and previous classmates who ranked a small handful (ie 5) programs and thought they would get lucky. That unbridled optimism is cute when you're a kid, not when you're planning your career. If there is any universally true advice that can be given about matching -- it's that greater number of ranked programs leads to greater chance of success. That should be the main goal when applying -- a realistic self assessment and making choices that will lead to as many interviews as possible, even if it means doing a different specialty or applying to ridiculous number of programs.

I think in a lot of students minds they equate the "average" medical student as analogous to the average undergraduate student. Every medical student believes they are above average.

 

[bakedbeans18]

I think in a lot of students minds they equate the "average" medical student as analogous to the average undergraduate student.

Which is silly, because average medical student would still have been among the top 10-15 % of undergraduate students....

 

[DermViser]

Which is silly, because average medical student would still have been among the top 10-15 % of undergraduate students....

Yup. Essentially in medical school the mean of the bell curve has shifted greatly to the right. With higher tier medical schools, of course, the mean of the bell curve will be even shifted even greater to the right. It's very difficult to be at the head of the bell curve through high school, again at college, and then again at medical school, etc. Even in residency you're ranked (of course by then, depending on the specialty, you may not give a **** anymore). Eventually in life, you won't always be at the head of the bell curve.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Yup. Essentially in medical school the mean of the bell curve has shifted greatly to the right. With higher tier medical schools, of course, the mean of the bell curve will be even shifted even greater to the right. It's very difficult to be at the head of the bell curve through high school, again at college, and then again at medical school, etc. Even in residency you're ranked (of course by then, depending on the specialty, you may not give a **** anymore). Eventually in life, you won't always be at the head of the bell curve.

Wait a minute, how the hell are residents ranked? Whoever has the least deaths amongst their patients?

 

[DermViser]

Wait a minute, how the hell are residents ranked? Whoever has the least deaths amongst their patients?

Through rotation evaluations from residency faculty, In-training exam scores, etc. Ranking in residency is usually pivotal when it comes to applying for certain competitive fellowships (i.e. GI, Cardiology, Pain Medicine, Interventional Radiology, etc.). This is very specialty-specific of course.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Through rotation evaluations from residency faculty, In-training exam scores, etc. Ranking in residency is usually pivotal when it comes to applying for certain competitive fellowships (i.e. GI, Cardiology, Pain Medicine, Interventional Radiology, etc.). This is very specialty-specific of course.

With this regard, is it to ones advantage to complete residency at a small program, (i.e., small resident class)

 

[DermViser]

With this regard, is it to ones advantage to complete residency at a small program, (i.e., small resident class)

Depending on the specialty, it's probably more important whether that specific fellowship is available at your residency institution. Naturally residencies such as IM and Surgery will have more people than say Urology/Derm/Optho, etc. You can't control who will be your colleagues within your year.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

I'm already on SSRIs, don't worry. It's just that medicine and med school damage some of us more than others.

Aren't you an MS I? If you're that "damaged," it's time for counseling. By the way, delusions have nothing to do with why most don't match into competitive specialties.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

This is true. However, if you are aiming for IM, for example, and you have a ~240/240 for your USMLE, and you interview with:

Hopkins, Penn, UChicago, Cook County Hospital, UCLA-Harbor, Lenox Hill Hosp, MassGen, Loyola University Medical Ctr, Stanford University Hosp, Stamford (CT) Hospital, North Shore University Hospital, UTSW, Brown/Rhode Island Hospital, Vanderbilt, University of Florida, Washington Hospital Center, and WashU, but then your ROL looks like this:

1. MassGen
2. Stanford
3. Hopkins
4. Penn
5. UTSW
6. UChicago
7. WashU
8. Vanderbilt
9. Brown/RI Hospital

but you don't include the community programs like Loyola, UCLA-Harbor, Lenox Hill, NorthShore, even at the bottom of your ROL, then you aren't doing yourself any favors at all. You're being over-confident with the ROL, and the match can only be done "in favor of the applicant" to the extent to the total # of programs that will rank the applicant. "In favor of the applicant" just means that you will get placed to the highest priority program on your ROL that has also ranked you. So, if, according to the above sample ROL, at the very least Brown has not ranked you, then the other programs won't even be able to recruit you because of their exclusion from your ROL, even if they were your last choice programs.

Correction: " 'in favor of the applicant' just means that you will get placed to the highest priority program on your ROL that has also ranked you highly."

People sometimes forget this. If you rank a program number one and they rank you, but they rank you in their 30s, there's still a pretty good chance you won't match there.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

They've done studies which have shown that medical school truly changes you from MS-1 to MS-4. For some people it's better, for some it's worse. It's up to you to decide in which direction that is.

Do you have a link to any of those studies?

 

[bakedbeans18]

Correction: " 'in favor of the applicant' just means that you will get placed to the highest priority program on your ROL that has also ranked you highly."

People sometimes forget this. If you rank a program number one and they rank you, but they rank you in their 30s, there's still a pretty good chance you won't match there.

When the time comes, every program I have the fortune of interviewing with goes on my ROL, even if I hated the program on my interview day.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/match-week-and-rotations.1058530/page-3#post-15003397

When the time comes, every program I have the fortune of interviewing with goes on my ROL, even if I hated the program on my interview day.

 

[DermViser]

Do you have a link to any of those studies?

Assuming you're not itching for a fight and don't know how to use PubMed, here is one example of those studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22455699

 

[DermViser]

When the time comes, every program I have the fortune of interviewing with goes on my ROL, even if I hated the program on my interview day.

Realize that a lot of self-selection takes place when it comes to choosing WHERE to send applications and WHERE to do interviews at based not only on the wants of the applicant, but the applicant's academic record. Depending on the specialty, there will be some places that are so malignant to residents, that you'd be better off not ranking it.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Assuming you're not itching for a fight and don't know how to use PubMed, here is one example of those studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22455699

Seriously? I thought that was a pretty benign post. Believe me, if I was looking for a fight, you'd know it. As for the article, I assumed there were others about more than just waning empathy. My mistake.

 

[DermViser]

Seriously? I thought that was a pretty benign post. Believe me, if I was looking for a fight, you'd know it. As for the article, I assumed there were others about more than just waning empathy. My mistake.

There are many others on this topic, on more than just empathy. That was just one example. I just don't have the time to retrudge through all of them for you, as you're definitely not worth my time.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

There are many others on this topic, on more than just empathy. That was just one example. I just don't have the time to retrudge through all of them for you, as you're definitely not worth my time.

And yet, you dared to suggest *I* was the one itching for a fight? Wow.

 

[Anastomoses]

And yet, you dared to suggest *I* was the one itching for a fight? Wow.

Again, you misunderstand. That's DermViser being cordial.

 

[DermViser]

Derm's time is very precious. He likes to waste it on me when he has any to spare.

Laughing at you takes no time at all. Going through reams of PubMed articles for @Elisabeth Kate who apparently can't do so herself is a waste of time, esp. with her comment, "I assumed there were others about more than just waning empathy".

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Laughing at you takes no time at all. Going through reams of PubMed articles for @Elisabeth Kate who apparently can't do so herself is a waste of time, esp. with her comment, "I assumed there were others about more than just waning empathy".

A lot of fragile people on SDN right now. I can't imagine a normal person getting bent out of shape about any of these posts.

 

[Anastomoses]

Laughing at you takes no time at all. Going through reams of PubMed articles for @Elisabeth Kate who apparently can't do so herself is a waste of time, esp. with her comment, "I assumed there were others about more than just waning empathy".

Well, we here in Allo appreciate all the giving you do when you can. Even if it's just laughter.