Match Post-mortem

[matchquestion12]

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Hey errbody!

Here's a quick 'intro' on the situation: I applied broadly in a generally non-competive primary care specialty, opened my envelope on Friday, and found I matched at a program in the double digits of my ROL. Third to last program actually.

As with the OP in this currently active thread, I am pretty bummed by the situation. In perspective, it's a good hospital, at least I matched, things could be worse, only three years, et cetera. But, truth is, it's a program where I didn't feel like I fit in.


Beyond my general emotional response on match day, I'm concerned about my match result for two reasons.

(1) Because of my career goals (more competitive sub-specialty in academic setting) I'm hoping for a much better result to my fellowship match in a couple years. Now I am concerned that there is something about my interview/application that is a red flag that I am not aware about. I genuinely enjoyed interviews, but maybe my "professional" personality comes across as a dead fish. Or an idiot. Who knows. But I'm concerned a repeat sub-par performance might cause me to go unmatched during fellowship applications.

(2) I'm not sure how to recover from the blow to my ego. I gained a lot of confidence from Sub-I's and an international rotation, yet now my faith in how I'll do as an intern is pretty shaken by the rejection. Hearing attendings in my specialty say, "Oh I matched at my fourth choice, a little rank order list disappointment isn't the end of the world," has been less helpful when I barely matched at all. I don't have any room for more clinical experiences this year, so I need to figure out how else to get my mojo back.



In summary: I'm trying to do a "match post-mortem" to figure out how to improve my performance for future fellowship applications. Any advice on how to do this? Is it gauche to politely inquire at programs I didn't match at? How to go up to my advisors and letter writers and say. "Hey, thanks for all your help, I actually ended up pretty disappointed despite all your effort, any tips for next time?"

Any advise for getting pumped for internships your not excited about? Any advice for building confidence going into intern year when match rejection has sapped your good vibes?

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Hey errbody!

Here's a quick 'intro' on the situation: I applied broadly in a generally non-competive primary care specialty, opened my envelope on Friday, and found I matched at a program in the double digits of my ROL. Third to last program actually.

As with the OP in this currently active thread, I am pretty bummed by the situation. In perspective, it's a good hospital, at least I matched, things could be worse, only three years, et cetera. But, truth is, it's a program where I didn't feel like I fit in.


Beyond my general emotional response on match day, I'm concerned about my match result for two reasons.

(1) Because of my career goals (more competitive sub-specialty in academic setting) I'm hoping for a much better result to my fellowship match in a couple years. Now I am concerned that there is something about my interview/application that is a red flag that I am not aware about. I genuinely enjoyed interviews, but maybe my "professional" personality comes across as a dead fish. Or an idiot. Who knows. But I'm concerned a repeat sub-par performance might cause me to go unmatched during fellowship applications.

(2) I'm not sure how to recover from the blow to my ego. I gained a lot of confidence from Sub-I's and an international rotation, yet now my faith in how I'll do as an intern is pretty shaken by the rejection. Hearing attendings in my specialty say, "Oh I matched at my fourth choice, a little rank order list disappointment isn't the end of the world," has been less helpful when I barely matched at all. I don't have any room for more clinical experiences this year, so I need to figure out how else to get my mojo back.



In summary: I'm trying to do a "match post-mortem" to figure out how to improve my performance for future fellowship applications. Any advice on how to do this? Is it gauche to politely inquire at programs I didn't match at? How to go up to my advisors and letter writers and say. "Hey, thanks for all your help, I actually ended up pretty disappointed despite all your effort, any tips for next time?"

Any advise for getting pumped for internships your not excited about? Any advice for building confidence going into intern year when match rejection has sapped your good vibes?

My suspicion more and more is that connections are becoming preeminent in medicine, in ways they have long been in law and business. I see people posting on SDN with equivalent stats with widely disparate match outcomes (top 5 IM programs vs. IM programs in the 20s-30s). It can't all be down to personalities and interviewing skills, nor generic recommendation letters.

The best thing you can do is perform research with someone really big, famous, and well-connected at your new residency, and hope they will go to bat for you come fellowship time.

 

[xrevision]

My suspicion more and more is that connections are becoming preeminent in medicine, in ways they have long been in law and business. I see people posting on SDN with equivalent stats with widely disparate match outcomes (top 5 IM programs vs. IM programs in the 20s-30s). It can't all be down to personalities and interviewing skills, nor generic recommendation letters.

The best thing you can do is perform research with someone really big, famous, and well-connected at your new residency, and hope they will go to bat for you come fellowship time.

I think you are underestimating the importance of how you come off in interviews.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hey errbody!

Here's a quick 'intro' on the situation: I applied broadly in a generally non-competive primary care specialty, opened my envelope on Friday, and found I matched at a program in the double digits of my ROL. Third to last program actually.

As with the OP in this currently active thread, I am pretty bummed by the situation. In perspective, it's a good hospital, at least I matched, things could be worse, only three years, et cetera. But, truth is, it's a program where I didn't feel like I fit in.


Beyond my general emotional response on match day, I'm concerned about my match result for two reasons.

(1) Because of my career goals (more competitive sub-specialty in academic setting) I'm hoping for a much better result to my fellowship match in a couple years. Now I am concerned that there is something about my interview/application that is a red flag that I am not aware about. I genuinely enjoyed interviews, but maybe my "professional" personality comes across as a dead fish. Or an idiot. Who knows. But I'm concerned a repeat sub-par performance might cause me to go unmatched during fellowship applications.

(2) I'm not sure how to recover from the blow to my ego. I gained a lot of confidence from Sub-I's and an international rotation, yet now my faith in how I'll do as an intern is pretty shaken by the rejection. Hearing attendings in my specialty say, "Oh I matched at my fourth choice, a little rank order list disappointment isn't the end of the world," has been less helpful when I barely matched at all. I don't have any room for more clinical experiences this year, so I need to figure out how else to get my mojo back.



In summary: I'm trying to do a "match post-mortem" to figure out how to improve my performance for future fellowship applications. Any advice on how to do this? Is it gauche to politely inquire at programs I didn't match at? How to go up to my advisors and letter writers and say. "Hey, thanks for all your help, I actually ended up pretty disappointed despite all your effort, any tips for next time?"

Any advise for getting pumped for internships your not excited about? Any advice for building confidence going into intern year when match rejection has sapped your good vibes?

It never comes across comfortably to ask places why they didn't rank you as highly as others. Let it go. As to the ego hit, get over it. Be happy you matched -- honestly the system is set up to pair you up with the place you liked best that liked you back. If you had a free fall on your match list most of the time you weren't very attuned of the type of programs that were most realistic for you. You shot too high above the mark, and maybe even got lucky you hit something at all. I doubt it was just your interview prowess -- for all you know that kept you in the running for things you otherwise would be further off the mark for. It's nice that you think highly of yourself, and lots of us get cocky at times, but the match tends to be the ultimate reality check. Dont be disappointed. There are lots of people that would kill to have your spot on the scramble threads.

 

[umean2tellme]

The match is over. Just look forward and do well in residency. Make connections at your program and do research and you can get to where you want to go.

 

[matchquestion12]

Thanks for your responses!

All very good advice, you all definitely mentioned some issues I've considered, especially in regards to ROL overreach, interview skills and networking. And thanks for the advice on not contacting program directors asking why I wasn't ranked higher. It didn't seem like something I would be comfortable doing, but I always feel too timid compared to other med students, wanted to make sure my gut was correct.

However, I'd like to redirect the thread a little bit.

I don't expect anyone here on SDN to put their finger on why I took a match list free-fall (hence I didn't post any details of my list or application). Just, as move on towards preparing for residency over the next couple days, I want to know what I can do that helps me figure out the cause of the free fall for myself. Like I said, this isn't my last rodeo as far as matches go.

To restate the question, I'd like to turn this into a learning experience, how do I do that?

Yes, the ultimate answer is to put the match behind me, doing well in residency will be the biggest determinate on where I get my next job. Rest assured, I will show up in June grateful and humbled by the chance to have a spot; I know in the long run I am very fortunate. But I want to make sure I'm taking the right steps in improving my chances for next time.

 

[duckie99]

To restate the question, I'd like to turn this into a learning experience, how do I do that?

I think it's hard to say without knowing more objective details about your app (scores, 3rd year grades, med school, research), the field you applied, where you interviewed, where you matched, and the fellowship you want to do.

I do like your attitude though! I do think it is poor form to contact programs that didn't rank you very high to find out why but honestly, it's not a bad option. Maybe a PD will give you a quick reply but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. Sometimes it's better to just let things go. You could ask a person who wrote a letter for you or your school's dean's office what's up. But I really don't think there is a whole lot otherwise.

I think your attitude of showing up, trying your absolute best, and being humble is the best bet. Get great LORs, get some solid research, apply to your fellowship, and hope for the best. Good luck!

 

[mcl]

However, I'd like to redirect the thread a little bit.

I don't expect anyone here on SDN to put their finger on why I took a match list free-fall (hence I didn't post any details of my list or application). Just, as move on towards preparing for residency over the next couple days, I want to know what I can do that helps me figure out the cause of the free fall for myself. Like I said, this isn't my last rodeo as far as matches go.

To restate the question, I'd like to turn this into a learning experience, how do I do that?

First, please keep in mind that you don't know it's an interview problem. The match was very competitive this year and you might have been just out of Match range for the majority of programs you ranked. If this is the case, whatever factor put you lower on an ROL might be something that won't be relevant by the time you're interviewing for fellowships (like a clerkship grade, for example).

Second, recognize that when fellowship application time comes, you will be a very different person from the one who interviewed for residency. You'll have a much greater degree of experience with all types of communcation, and you'll probably be able to read people better. You'll have the ability during residency to develop professional connections which can help you reach your career goals, especially if you involve the PD early and seek a mentor in your area of interest.

I agree with the previous posters who've recommended letting the disappointments of the Match results go. I'd add my recommendation that for the time being, stop trying to fix yourself. Communication and/or personality issues will probably become more apparent as you start getting rotation evaluations and performance feedback.

Don't forget to breathe. You'll be fine 🙂

 

[cowme]

It never comes across comfortably to ask places why they didn't rank you as highly as others. Let it go. As to the ego hit, get over it. Be happy you matched -- honestly the system is set up to pair you up with the place you liked best that liked you back. If you had a free fall on your match list most of the time you weren't very attuned of the type of programs that were most realistic for you. You shot too high above the mark, and maybe even got lucky you hit something at all. I doubt it was just your interview prowess -- for all you know that kept you in the running for things you otherwise would be further off the mark for. It's nice that you think highly of yourself, and lots of us get cocky at times, but the match tends to be the ultimate reality check. Dont be disappointed. There are lots of people that would kill to have your spot on the scramble threads.

It bothers me when people boil the match down to "this is where you were meant to be." This process is about as arbitrary as I could have ever imagined.

This year, our program moved people to the bottom of the rank list for:

- looking bored during a 1 hour boring noon conference
- being classmates with a student who didn't show up for an interview on a separate day
- being overly complimentary of their home program's radiology department

Reasons for ranking people highly seemed just as arbitrary.

This isn't some scientific process to most people. It's a shotgun, go-with-your-gut feeling that works out fine most of the time. But I am certain there are people every year who match at programs they had no business of falling to, for absurd reasons like what I saw this year.

OP, stay the course.I'm sure things won't turn out as bad as it seems right now

 

[disorder]

It bothers me when people boil the match down to "this is where you were meant to be." This process is about as arbitrary as I could have ever imagined.

This year, our program moved people to the bottom of the rank list for:

- looking bored during a 1 hour boring noon conference
- being classmates with a student who didn't show up for an interview on a separate day
- being overly complimentary of their home program's radiology department

Reasons for ranking people highly seemed just as arbitrary.

This isn't some scientific process to most people. It's a shotgun, go-with-your-gut feeling that works out fine most of the time. But I am certain there are people every year who match at programs they had no business of falling to, for absurd reasons like what I saw this year.

OP, stay the course.I'm sure things won't turn out as bad as it seems right now

OUCH, really?! that seems a bit harsh/extreme and really unfair.

 

[Substance]

It bothers me when people boil the match down to "this is where you were meant to be." This process is about as arbitrary as I could have ever imagined.

This year, our program moved people to the bottom of the rank list for:

- looking bored during a 1 hour boring noon conference
- being classmates with a student who didn't show up for an interview on a separate day
- being overly complimentary of their home program's radiology department

Reasons for ranking people highly seemed just as arbitrary.

This isn't some scientific process to most people. It's a shotgun, go-with-your-gut feeling that works out fine most of the time. But I am certain there are people every year who match at programs they had no business of falling to, for absurd reasons like what I saw this year.

OP, stay the course.I'm sure things won't turn out as bad as it seems right now

It's arbitrary as heck, even more so in Canada where we don't have the benefits of standardized testing to at least whittle down the applicant pool.

Our rank list was influenced by arbitrary criteria, and frankly we ranked some pretty sub-par candidates because they had good letters (it felt as if the writer wanted the applicant to just begone). I am very uncomfortable with the process from the program end, and will in the future not make myself a part of it. It's become like law or business, and that's unfortunate because I assume most of us went into medicine because it wasn't like those fields. Those days are gone.

 

[Allegra]

It bothers me when people boil the match down to "this is where you were meant to be." This process is about as arbitrary as I could have ever imagined.

This year, our program moved people to the bottom of the rank list for:

- looking bored during a 1 hour boring noon conference
- being classmates with a student who didn't show up for an interview on a separate day
- being overly complimentary of their home program's radiology department

Reasons for ranking people highly seemed just as arbitrary.

This isn't some scientific process to most people. It's a shotgun, go-with-your-gut feeling that works out fine most of the time. But I am certain there are people every year who match at programs they had no business of falling to, for absurd reasons like what I saw this year.

OP, stay the course.I'm sure things won't turn out as bad as it seems right now

It's the gamesmanship that bothers me. I had a PD at a particular program sending me correspondence into February about how I would be such a great fit, you had such a good interview, "really hope I'll be working with you in July", etc. I didn't match there. Even if there is no explicit offer of contract these types of phrases obviously inspire confidence of matching. And for what? To get everyone to rank the program #1 and ensure their pick of the litter?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It's the gamesmanship that bothers me. I had a PD at a particular program sending me correspondence into February about how I would be such a great fit, you had such a good interview, "really hope I'll be working with you in July", etc. I didn't match there. Even if there is no explicit offer of contract these types of phrases obviously inspire confidence of matching. And for what? To get everyone to rank the program #1 and ensure their pick of the litter?

Because nervous med students like yourself will post here that, when you don't get any communication afterwards (or to your thank you notes), that somehow that means that we don't care about you, and you'll rank some other program else higher.

 

[Knicks]

Because nervous med students like yourself will post here that, when you don't get any communication afterwards (or to your thank you notes), that somehow that means that we don't care about you, and you'll rank some other program else higher.

True, but come on; "really hope I'll be working with you in July" is a pretty strong statement.

 

[Winged Scapula]

True, but come on; "really hope I'll be working with you in July" is a pretty strong statement.

No, its a pretty cliched statement which says nothing about your chances. Depending on the person delivering it, it might even be a lie.

 

[st0w]

Depends on a lot of factors. I received similar correspondence from some programs where it was clearly just routine, impersonal garbage. And from other programs, I got personal phone calls from PDs/chairs and clearly non-generic letters. The personal calls/letters were a welcome touch, the generic stuff was a turn-off and made me think less of the programs. And it didn't impact me either way when I heard nothing at all.

All-in-all, the only impact any of it had on my ROL was that I ranked programs that sent me generic correspondence lower than I would have otherwise. Insincerity is much worse than silence in my book.

As applicants, we have to evaluate all this stuff objectively. Don't get caught up in the hype.

 

[Substance]

Personally, I think the classic way of applying for a job is better than this ridiculous match crap. Centralizing control is always a bad idea.

 

[matchquestion12]

Well, now that we're onto discussing post-interview communication and NRMP bashing, I think it's time for me to bow out of this thread.

Thanks everyone for your time! I guess my take-away is there's not much you can do after the match to make sense of things, which is frustrating. Perhaps that's why God invented alcohol. 😉

Perhaps my only move is more aggressive vetting of my application next time around. And more aggressive lobbying at those "less competitive" programs that I'd actually be super ecstatic to land at.

Personally, I think the classic way of applying for a job is better than this ridiculous match crap. Centralizing control is always a bad idea.

P.S. Personally, for me, as someone who worked in business before medical school, and whose wife is in human resources, I strongly, passionately disagree. But that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[jonessoda1212]

OUCH, really?! that seems a bit harsh/extreme and really unfair.

We were told by our school's PD that a certain Chicago residency (anesthesia) doesn't even offer interviews to students from our school because a student or two didn't show up a few years ago. Glad I wasted my time applying there.

 

[survivordo]

I interviewed at one program that had only 1 interview day with about 30 candidates. In the airport on the way home a received a call that boiled down to "you will match here if you want to" Apparently it is well known that they give this call to 4 applicants a year and that it is not BS so I took them for their word. It was actually nice because I was able to cancel interviews at programs I was less interested in. I ended up matching at a program I ranked higher than them but there are SOME programs that are straight shooters (don't know if it is necessarily legal though)

Survivor DO

Depends on a lot of factors. I received similar correspondence from some programs where it was clearly just routine, impersonal garbage. And from other programs, I got personal phone calls from PDs/chairs and clearly non-generic letters. The personal calls/letters were a welcome touch, the generic stuff was a turn-off and made me think less of the programs. And it didn't impact me either way when I heard nothing at all.

All-in-all, the only impact any of it had on my ROL was that I ranked programs that sent me generic correspondence lower than I would have otherwise. Insincerity is much worse than silence in my book.

As applicants, we have to evaluate all this stuff objectively. Don't get caught up in the hype.

 

[mcl]

I interviewed at one program that had only 1 interview day with about 30 candidates. In the airport on the way home a received a call that boiled down to "you will match here if you want to" Apparently it is well known that they give this call to 4 applicants a year and that it is not BS so I took them for their word. It was actually nice because I was able to cancel interviews at programs I was less interested in. I ended up matching at a program I ranked higher than them but there are SOME programs that are straight shooters (don't know if it is necessarily legal though)

It's legal as long as they don't imply the guarantee is contingent on your agreeing to rank them first on your list.