Match violation? Asking for interview feedback?

[so721]

Hi,

I matched and am all set to head to my program. But I saw the PDF on NRMP and noted a program that I had interviewed at, which was near my in-laws which I ranked higher than where I matched, had gone unfilled. Obviously this means they didn't rank me and I just want to know why they would interview me or if I had made an error during the interview that made me DNR. I was wondering if I were to communicate with my interviewer just to ask for feedback (maybe I rubbed someone the wrong way?) would it be a match violation?

Again, I have every intention of going to my matched program. Even secured a lease on a house. My wife is even planning on homeschooling our kids, because of the poor quality of public schools and not to mention violence ...which surprised me as attendings live nearby but they send their kids to religious private schools.

I know that the saying they tell u on interview day that you all look good enough on paper otherwise you wouldn't be here....I'm just trying to identify if I did something horrible during my interview that I should not repeat in the future for fellowships ( or just in general). But at the same time, I'd rather leave it a mystery if it will cause me to have a match violation and leave my commitment.

Thanks

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

That's not a violation. Not sure what good it would do to know the answer though.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Its fine, although it may come better from your medical school faculty (in case there's a reason they would feel uncomfortable revealing it to you). Perhaps you have a faculty advisor etc who would be willing to make the call under the guise that they wish to give feedback to their students who went unmatched or lowly matched about any glaring issues they could improve upon.

 

[so721]

Thanks. I don't have a faculty advisor, but I have mentor who I can ask.

 

[so721]

Its fine, although it may come better from your medical school faculty (in case there's a reason they would feel uncomfortable revealing it to you). Perhaps you have a faculty advisor etc who would be willing to make the call under the guise that they wish to give feedback to their students who went unmatched or lowly matched about any glaring issues they could improve upon.

I was wondering if I ask my mentor to check, would the programs somehow via NRMP, be able to find out where I matched and communicate that info to my PD?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I was wondering if I ask my mentor to check, would the programs somehow via NRMP, be able to find out where I matched and communicate that info to my PD?

Yes but why would they?

 

[so721]

Yes but why would they?

The info I was referring to was the fact that an inquiry was made about my application to another program. I would think that they may do this to convey to them that they have someone who is not 100% content in their match contract, so as to warn them of any issues that might come up. Probably being pranoid but that I'd check.

 

[Winged Scapula]

The info I was referring to was the fact that an inquiry was made about my application to another program. I would think that they may do this to convey to them that they have someone who is not 100% content in their match contract, so as to warn them of any issues that might come up. Probably being pranoid but that I'd check.

So you're saying that someone has already contacted the program you're currently matched to and told them that you had ranked another place higher in an effort to warn them about you?

 

[so721]

So you're saying that someone has already contacted the program you're currently matched to and told them that you had ranked another place higher in an effort to warn them about you?

No I was trying to say, what if? what if the program tries to contact my current program to tell them that they were not my first choice?

But again, that's just a chance I'd have to take. I think I should do it soon though because they will probably forget about me after the end of this month as ERAS refreshes.

 

[Winged Scapula]

No I was trying to say, what if? what if the program tries to contact my current program to tell them that they were not my first choice?

But again, that's just a chance I'd have to take. I think I should do it soon though because they will probably forget about me after the end of this month as ERAS refreshes.

Or you could just give it up and move on like most everyone else does when someone they care about rejects them.

 

[so721]

Or you could just give it up and move on like most everyone else does when someone they care about rejects them.

I do want to move on. But I am curious as to what made in the DNR pile after interview, so I don't repeat the same mistake again in day to day life, another interview (for fellowship or residency,etc.) or the unlikely event that they didn't rank me because they didn't get a score in on time etc.

But I take your point, its not going to change anything. I have already gotten my paperwork done for moving and am very well on my way.

 

[gutonc]

No I was trying to say, what if? what if the program tries to contact my current program to tell them that they were not my first choice?

But again, that's just a chance I'd have to take. I think I should do it soon though because they will probably forget about me after the end of this month as ERAS refreshes.

I assure you that they have already completely forgotten about you. Move on.

Also, if the program really DNR'd you, they don't know where you matched. Programs only see the match results of people who they ranked. And the vast majority of them don't give a flying f***. Again...move on.

 

[lockjaw]

Also, if the program really DNR'd you, they don't know where you matched. Programs only see the match results of people who they ranked.

That's true if the program only looks at the report of all of its ranked applicants and where they matched, but programs can also search the NRMP database after the match and see where any applicant matched. Not that most programs will do take the time to do that, but it is possible. My program was curious where our DNR'd applicants ended up, and we also searched the couples of the applicants who couples-matched into our program to see if the spouses ended up at our institution or if they matched somewhere separate. The SOs were in different specialties than our matched residents, so it's possible to search for any applicant who entered the match, regardless of if they were ranked by the program, or even applied in the specialty of the program doing the searching.

 

[Law2Doc]

It comes off as extremely petty when you pursue something like this. You don't get to know how the committee decided where to rank you, or as here, why not. Heck, the residents who go there won't know if they were ranked to match or an afterthought. You need to let this go. You can never come off in a good light. And even if you did ask they are going to go with the whole "lots of good applicants" and "not the right fit" Mumbo jumbo. The whole - "it's not you its us" let you down easy method. Make up your own reason -- it's probably closer to the truth,

 

[SLC]

It sorta bugs me that programs can see where we matched, but we can't see where they ranked us. I am similarly curious about a couple of places I felt extremely confident in, but didn't match with.

I'm happier with where I am going now that I've had time to settle in. But it still irks me that I obviously didn't get ranked highly with those programs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It sorta bugs me that programs can see where we matched, but we can't see where they ranked us. I am similarly curious about a couple of places I felt extremely confident in, but didn't match with.

I'm happier with where I am going now that I've had time to settle in. But it still irks me that I obviously didn't get ranked highly with those programs.

I can't see where any applicant ranked me. So for some people I felt were likely to match with me that matched elsewhere, I don't know where I was on their rank list. So it's really the same.

 

[Law2Doc]

I can't see where any applicant ranked me. So for some people I felt were likely to match with me that matched elsewhere, I don't know where I was on their rank list. So it's really the same.

It's a little different because he knows the program didn't fill, so they apparently opted not to rank him at all, rather than just put others higher on the list. When an applicnt doesnt choose your program you can assume they liked someplace else better not that they chose nothing over you. But either way he needs to get on with his life and not go down the whole "what's wrong with me" road. They'll never tell the truth, and if they did it probably wouldn't sit well anyway -- this isn't an opportunity for constructive criticism. They won't tell you you pissed off X residents or that you came off as overbearing, or creeped out an interviewer or whatever. They'll do what they can to let you down easy. So following this up is pointless.

 

[mvenus929]

No I was trying to say, what if? what if the program tries to contact my current program to tell them that they were not my first choice?

But again, that's just a chance I'd have to take. I think I should do it soon though because they will probably forget about me after the end of this month as ERAS refreshes.

There is a person in our upcoming intern class who made it obvious to everyone that she did not want to match in our program and that she ranked us last. The only reason we look down on her compared to others that we know didn't rank us first (myself included), is because she made it so obvious that she thought we were beneath her, and yet we ranked her well enough to match (there is at least one person who wanted to come to our program who did not match at all, and did not match with us because he left a sour taste in the residents' mouths while he was rotating with us).

I tell you this to say that programs will not generally care that you are not their first choice, and it seems a silly thing for someone to tell your PD. So long as you embrace your position and make the most of your residency, no one will think twice about it.

 

[so721]

There is a person in our upcoming intern class who made it obvious to everyone that she did not want to match in our program and that she ranked us last. The only reason we look down on her compared to others that we know didn't rank us first (myself included), is because she made it so obvious that she thought we were beneath her, and yet we ranked her well enough to match (there is at least one person who wanted to come to our program who did not match at all, and did not match with us because he left a sour taste in the residents' mouths while he was rotating with us).

I tell you this to say that programs will not generally care that you are not their first choice, and it seems a silly thing for someone to tell your PD. So long as you embrace your position and make the most of your residency, no one will think twice about it.

How do you know that she does not want to be there? Did she actually tell you guys? that seems rude and downright stupid.

I hope this isn't a gauge on some type of social event you guys have planned. I've been so busy with graduation and moving, that I haven't had time to get to talk to my big sib/senior resident yet. But I hope they aren't taking it the wrong way. I figure I will meet them all during orientation week anyhow.

 

[mcl]

How do you know that she does not want to be there? Did she actually tell you guys? that seems rude and downright stupid.

I hope this isn't a gauge on some type of social event you guys have planned. I've been so busy with graduation and moving, that I haven't had time to get to talk to my big sib/senior resident yet. But I hope they aren't taking it the wrong way. I figure I will meet them all during orientation week anyhow.

If someone from your program has reached out to you by phone or email, you should acknowledge it and return the call/email before orientation week. Even if it's just to say how busy you are and that you're really looking forward to meeting them soon. If you have a "big sib" resident, remember that this person is there to help you make this transition successfully, so take advantage of this person's ability to give advice based on his/her experience.

 

[candbgirl]

How do you know that she does not want to be there? Did she actually tell you guys? that seems rude and downright stupid.

I hope this isn't a gauge on some type of social event you guys have planned. I've been so busy with graduation and moving, that I haven't had time to get to talk to my big sib/senior resident yet. But I hope they aren't taking it the wrong way. I figure I will meet them all during orientation week anyhow.

Did someone from your program reach out and contact you? If so you need to respond right now and apologize for not responding sooner. Everyone knows you're busy moving etc but a quick email or text or call takes seconds. Not to respond is just rude.

 

[so721]

Actually, I did respond to the welcome e-mail that the chief resident made along with the coordinators e-mail. But I noticed that the coordinator also provided a list of big sibs with their contact e-mail and I haven't yet contacted my big sib with any specific questions. I originally thought I would meet her in person. But I guess sending her an e-mail telling her I'd love to get to be part of her team would be nice.

 

[mvenus929]

How do you know that she does not want to be there? Did she actually tell you guys? that seems rude and downright stupid.

She told multiple people in our program. The phrase 'burning bridges' comes to mind. I didn't want to stay at my home program either, but I also would've preferred to go there over other programs on my list. I let my advisors know that it was not at the top of my list, but not in a way that had I matched there, I would've had issues with people. This student did.

Actually, I did respond to the welcome e-mail that the chief resident made along with the coordinators e-mail. But I noticed that the coordinator also provided a list of big sibs with their contact e-mail and I haven't yet contacted my big sib with any specific questions. I originally thought I would meet her in person. But I guess sending her an e-mail telling her I'd love to get to be part of her team would be nice.

If they haven't contacted you, don't worry about contacting them right now, unless you do have questions. You will likely meet them during orientation at some point. Not responding to an email that an intern took the time to send to you would be rude. We sign up for little sibs, but the majority of us don't get the contact information for our sibs until they show up for orientation (the exceptions being those we knew prior to them matching here).

 

[Law2Doc]

She told multiple people in our program. The phrase 'burning bridges' comes to mind. I didn't want to stay at my home program either, but I also would've preferred to go there over other programs on my list. I let my advisors know that it was not at the top of my list, but not in a way that had I matched there, I would've had issues with people. This student did.



If they haven't contacted you, don't worry about contacting them right now, unless you do have questions. You will likely meet them during orientation at some point. Not responding to an email that an intern took the time to send to you would be rude. We sign up for little sibs, but the majority of us don't get the contact information for our sibs until they show up for orientation (the exceptions being those we knew prior to them matching here).

I would still probably reach out to a provided big sib just to say hey. It just a good way to create a good first impression with someone you'll be working with.

 

[outsider]

hind sight is 20/20. Nothing will change by finding out why you got no love from the program you coveted.
Life is full of wouldda, couldda, shoulddas. Actual and factual is how you will be treated and progress.. While first choices are nice, sometimes second place is a lot better. Take what you have and make the best of it. It is you who will be the doctor treating patients. Seek the guidance and wisdom from your program and move foward.