Matched Ortho this year, ask away

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TheBunkMD said:
This one goes for all the matched ortho brahs, what did your interview trail look like? In terms of location. I'm interested in going to a region I'm not originally from. I'm always heard there's a bias but is this true or just overblown
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I can only speak for someone applying out of the northeast. Having done both undergrad and med school in the northeast I had zero ties to other regions. I applied very broadly (including the south, midwest, and west coast) and still got interviews almost exclusively in the northeast. Out of 21 interview invites, I had only one from the midwest and one from the south. Overall, I got the sense that more academic "prestigious" programs were more willing to interview from all over the country. You can always look up the current resident lists on a program's website and see where most of their residents went to med school.

Also, don't do an away rotation strictly to "open up a region." The sense that I got was that you really are only helping yourself get an interview at that one program, so make sure you really are interested in that program. Unless you get a good letter from a well known surgeon in that city/region, just having done an away in say, california, won't help you get other interviews there.

Finally, this is only coming from my experience. There's so many applicants from the northeast that I'm sure a large regional bias comes into play, and that may not be the case with other regions. Also, my advice would be to just apply to anywhere and everywhere you might be interested. You never know where you will get invites and now's not the time for skimping on a few hundred bucks. Good luck!!
 
TOcho118 said:
I can only speak for someone applying out of the northeast. Having done both undergrad and med school in the northeast I had zero ties to other regions. I applied very broadly (including the south, midwest, and west coast) and still got interviews almost exclusively in the northeast. Out of 21 interview invites, I had only one from the midwest and one from the south. Overall, I got the sense that more academic "prestigious" programs were more willing to interview from all over the country. You can always look up the current resident lists on a program's website and see where most of their residents went to med school.

Also, don't do an away rotation strictly to "open up a region." The sense that I got was that you really are only helping yourself get an interview at that one program, so make sure you really are interested in that program. Unless you get a good letter from a well known surgeon in that city/region, just having done an away in say, california, won't help you get other interviews there.

Finally, this is only coming from my experience. There's so many applicants from the northeast that I'm sure a large regional bias comes into play, and that may not be the case with other regions. Also, my advice would be to just apply to anywhere and everywhere you might be interested. You never know where you will get invites and now's not the time for skimping on a few hundred bucks. Good luck!!
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I had the exact experience but being out west. I did an away in the northeast and one in the midwest and got no love interview wise in the region outside of where I rotated. I did this to try and open up a region and it did not work at all. I applied all over and got one interview in the south and the rest were out west, so very regionally based. In retrospect I wish I would've rotated more out west, I wanted to stay out west and in retrospect should have focused my aways more out here. I echo the advise above, rotate where you want to end up or at least think you would.
 
TheBunkMD said:
This one goes for all the matched ortho brahs, what did your interview trail look like? In terms of location. I'm interested in going to a region I'm not originally from. I'm always heard there's a bias but is this true or just overblown
Click to expand...

I'm from the northeast, went to undergrad and med school here, did all my aways here and I got invites in the northeast, mid-atlantic, and midwest. I got one invite from the west coast and one from the south at solid programs but ended up canceling both for northeast conflicts. If you want to go to a specific region i would do aways there if you aren't from that area.
 
Congrats to everyone who matched ortho. Looking back, what would you have done differently in medical school? Would you have started research earlier, etc. As a soon to be m1, what are some things I should put into practice day 1 to do well and kill step 1?
 
halfwaycrooks said:
Congrats to everyone who matched ortho. Looking back, what would you have done differently in medical school? Would you have started research earlier, etc. As a soon to be m1, what are some things I should put into practice day 1 to do well and kill step 1?
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+1
 
halfwaycrooks said:
Congrats to everyone who matched ortho. Looking back, what would you have done differently in medical school? Would you have started research earlier, etc. As a soon to be m1, what are some things I should put into practice day 1 to do well and kill step 1?
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Having successfully matched into one of my top choices, looking back there's not much I would have done differently per-se. I started research the summer between M1 and M2 (pretty standard) and worked on and off on a few things throughout M3. I do wish I had more research overall but you never want to put yourself in a situation where anything extracurricular could harm your academics in even the slightest bit. Looking back, I probably could have managed more at the time but I didn't realize it then. Regarding research, my advice is definitely do it, but start small and titrate up as you see fit. Research is also of extra importance if your school has a strong home ortho program as being involved will help you make valuable connections.

In terms of mentality day one of M1, the best advice I can give you is to keep an open mind regarding your study habits. Med school is wayyyy different than undergrad and you will undoubtedly need to adjust your study methods. Some people transition seamlessly, but I was not one of them. In fact, I was probably below or right around average most of my first year and will be graduating top 10%. The key was I realized what I was doing in the beginning wasn't working so I switched up my study methods until something clicked. This will be different for every person.

Ultimately, just do as well as you can and always keep pushing yourself to be better.

EDIT: And don't let anyone ever tell you to disregard your classes and just focus on the boards. If you learn things well the first time (i.e. what's taught in class), you will be in a great position to crush step 1. Trust me...
 
Also be nice to everyone.

If you're an ahole to a gen surg resident, don't think they won't tell one of their ortho buddies.
 
For those that matched ortho and had a home program, did you reach out to them early during M1? Or did you contact them summer between M1 and M2 to get involved in research?
 
...
 
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Tired said:
This is variable, and depends heavily on the level of hostility between the departments, the actual resident involved, and what the issue was that prompted the conflict.
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Well, generally, yes.

There is a specific level of dbaggery that most shall not achieve, but this one individual shall live on.

Don't be that guy, people.
 
...
 
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So if I'm about to start third year and I have 1 ortho pub and a decent step 1 score, should I focus more on honoring everything rather than trying to get a couple more projects completed? I'm worried about how I'll manage the time. Obviously it'll be best to titrate up as mentioned, but I feel like sometimes when you're working with people, if you can't be fully invested in the project at all times it might come off as laziness or inability to handle the workload which might reflect poorly with the home program, no?
 
I think there is a difference between there being a lot of ortho volume, and you getting to do a lot. Some places seem to have a tremendous amount of volume while the residents paradoxically seem to get to do very little in the OR. I think this has to do with there being a lot of fellows and the general culture of the institution. At my program there are no fellows and we get to do a lot from real early on. As a PGY-2 if there are 8 hand cases, it's just you and the attending and no one else. This creates the opportunity for generating a tremendous amount of actual operative experience. Anyways, for those looking to apply I would keep this in mind and try to avoid being impressed by sheer numbers and reputation alone.
 
Bancrofti said:
So if I'm about to start third year and I have 1 ortho pub and a decent step 1 score, should I focus more on honoring everything rather than trying to get a couple more projects completed? I'm worried about how I'll manage the time. Obviously it'll be best to titrate up as mentioned, but I feel like sometimes when you're working with people, if you can't be fully invested in the project at all times it might come off as laziness or inability to handle the workload which might reflect poorly with the home program, no?
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This is a fine line to walk. Doing well in your clerkships (i.e. honoring) should be your first and foremost priority, no questions asked. Assuming your one pub is either first or second author, having 2 or even 3 pubs by the time you interview isn't really that much more than just having 1. In my experience, applicants either fell into the "researcher type" with tons of pubs, or those that just did the baseline amount of research (i.e. a couple pubs, enough to talk about, but nothing crazy. Still, more is always better.

But then you have to decide how much time you can reasonably spend on research without compromising your grades. The best advice I can give is to be very upfront with your intentions and don't get sucked into overcommitting. Obviously this is easier said than done but you just have to try your best. People generally understand that your first priority is school and as an M3 you don't have enough extra time to just be banging out research. If you do a little at a time, you will be surprised at how much you can get done, even during your most busy rotations. I hope that was helpful…honestly sometimes you just have to play it by ear and hope for the best
 
Bancrofti said:
So if I'm about to start third year and I have 1 ortho pub and a decent step 1 score, should I focus more on honoring everything rather than trying to get a couple more projects completed? I'm worried about how I'll manage the time. Obviously it'll be best to titrate up as mentioned, but I feel like sometimes when you're working with people, if you can't be fully invested in the project at all times it might come off as laziness or inability to handle the workload which might reflect poorly with the home program, no?
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In my opinion, focus on honoring medicine and surgery. If you just get high passes in 1-2 of the others it's not a huge deal. Obviously try for honors, but you're not getting selected out by a high pass in peds.
 
Wordead said:
In my opinion, focus on honoring medicine and surgery. If you just get high passes in 1-2 of the others it's not a huge deal. Obviously try for honors, but you're not getting selected out by a high pass in peds.
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^^True. But those are also typically the hardest to honor. If you don't honor those and then don't have any other honors in the "easier" rotations, that could be seen as a major red flag. My .02
 
TOcho118 said:
^^True. But those are also typically the hardest to honor. If you don't honor those and then don't have any other honors in the "easier" rotations, that could be seen as a major red flag. My .02
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True. No honors is a major red flag. I'm assuming that someone giving med/surg undivided attention will honor it.
 
If you had to rank importance of factors for ortho (board scores, pubs, audition rotations, etc.) what would you all say are the top 3 most important things to excel at to match. I've been told most programs won't care too much about most factors if they like you and you show that you'll bust your a$$. How true is this and is there anything that will generally give you a major leg up or will kill your chances?

Bonebro said:
100/7/7

You rank every place you interview in ortho
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So are you saying you only ranked places you had interviews at? Do you think it would it be a waste of time to rank places that didn't offer you an interview?
 
Stagg737 said:
So are you saying you only ranked places you had interviews at? Do you think it would it be a waste of time to rank places that didn't offer you an interview?
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Not sure if serious, but with the current competition I don't think any program is hurting for candidates to rank that did interview, so it would be extremely unlikely (0% chance) that a program would rank someone that did not interview. So yes, it would be a waste but I guess it wouldn't hurt you in any way. I have no way of knowing, just assuming, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Stagg737 said:
If you had to rank importance of factors for ortho (board scores, pubs, audition rotations, etc.) what would you all say are the top 3 most important things to excel at to match. I've been told most programs won't care too much about most factors if they like you and you show that you'll bust your a$$. How true is this and is there anything that will generally give you a major leg up or will kill your chances?



So are you saying you only ranked places you had interviews at? Do you think it would it be a waste of time to rank places that didn't offer you an interview?
Click to expand...

Do you mean away rotation? You can only rank places you did interview at.
 
Stagg737 said:
If you had to rank importance of factors for ortho (board scores, pubs, audition rotations, etc.) what would you all say are the top 3 most important things to excel at to match. I've been told most programs won't care too much about most factors if they like you and you show that you'll bust your a$$. How true is this and is there anything that will generally give you a major leg up or will kill your chances?

So are you saying you only ranked places you had interviews at? Do you think it would it be a waste of time to rank places that didn't offer you an interview?
Click to expand...

Board scores, board scores, board scores, audition rotations. Good letters of rec. research. good third year grades. It's all important, probably boards and rotations the most. You HAVE to do research. If no pubs or presentations, they're going to ask why.

And you only rank places you interview. I suppose you could rank places that didn't but theres no way they'd rank you. Not all places that interview you or even do rotations w will rank you (ive heard northwestern is particularly bad).
 
Stagg737 said:
If you had to rank importance of factors for ortho (board scores, pubs, audition rotations, etc.) what would you all say are the top 3 most important things to excel at to match. I've been told most programs won't care too much about most factors if they like you and you show that you'll bust your a$$. How true is this and is there anything that will generally give you a major leg up or will kill your chances?



So are you saying you only ranked places you had interviews at? Do you think it would it be a waste of time to rank places that didn't offer you an interview?
Click to expand...

Board scores >>> Third year grades >> Audition/Away rotation > Letters of rec > research > anything else
 
giantswing said:
Board scores, board scores, board scores, audition rotations. Good letters of rec. research. good third year grades. It's all important, probably boards and rotations the most. You HAVE to do research. If no pubs or presentations, they're going to ask why.

And you only rank places you interview. I suppose you could rank places that didn't but theres no way they'd rank you. Not all places that interview you or even do rotations w will rank you (ive heard northwestern is particularly bad).
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I put 3rd year grades above audition rotations only because that is what will get you interviews at places you don't rotate at. Otherwise, Away rotations greatly increase your chance of matching at that particular program (If you do a good job and are liked)
 
Got a P in OB at H/HP/P school with 30%/60%/10% distribution, no real negative comments, otherwise mix of HP/H with H in surgery and good step, how much will this hurt me, how to handle at interviews?
 
massmocha said:
I put 3rd year grades above audition rotations only because that is what will get you interviews at places you don't rotate at. Otherwise, Away rotations greatly increase your chance of matching at that particular program (If you do a good job and are liked)
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Yes, but most people will match at places they rotated at.
 
Southplains said:
Do you mean away rotation? You can only rank places you did interview at.
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You can rank places you didn't interview at in every field I've heard of. I know more than one person irl that ranked over 60 places (mostly IM or primary care fields) and didn't interview at anywhere near that many.

giantswing said:
And you only rank places you interview. I suppose you could rank places that didn't but theres no way they'd rank you. Not all places that interview you or even do rotations w will rank you (ive heard northwestern is particularly bad).
Click to expand...

pd1112 said:
Not sure if serious, but with the current competition I don't think any program is hurting for candidates to rank that did interview, so it would be extremely unlikely (0% chance) that a program would rank someone that did not interview. So yes, it would be a waste but I guess it wouldn't hurt you in any way. I have no way of knowing, just assuming, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Interesting. I was just curious since there were a few unfilled spots before the scramble last year (all of which were eventually filled). So it's pretty safe to assume that if you don't interview or rotate you shouldn't bother ranking them? I mean, if it's not going to hurt you would ranking a program you didn't interview at (after places you did interview at, obviously) why not do it?
 
Stagg737 said:
You can rank places you didn't interview at in every field I've heard of. I know more than one person irl that ranked over 60 places (mostly IM or primary care fields) and didn't interview at anywhere near that many.





Interesting. I was just curious since there were a few unfilled spots before the scramble last year (all of which were eventually filled). So it's pretty safe to assume that if you don't interview or rotate you shouldn't bother ranking them? I mean, if it's not going to hurt you would ranking a program you didn't interview at (after places you did interview at, obviously) why not do it?
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This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, no offense
 
You also have to pay to rank those places (well, any over 30 or 35) so its just extra stupid to rank all those places you didn't interview at.
 
Wordead said:
You also have to pay to rank those places (well, any over 30 or 35) so its just extra stupid to rank all those places you didn't interview at.
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Just rank every program. All of them. Every specialty. Someone might screw up and rank you!
 
How much will honors in psych hurt my app? It was an accident.

Edit: Seriously though... What are the top-15 programs I should look into. Goal is excellent operating experience and enough research to get a good fellowship.
 
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Have you already forgotten that lisinopril can and will treat blood pressure and that all you need to do is continue the medication at discharge and this phenomenon doesn't actually require a medicine consult because the kind of folks who match into ortho should really know better?
 
jdh71 said:
Have you already forgotten that lisinopril can and will treat blood pressure and that all you need to do is continue the medication at discharge and this phenomenon doesn't actually require a medicine consult because the kind of folks who match into ortho should really know better?
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Just finished fourth year, matched into ortho. All of that just fell right out of my thought process. Step 3 might be painful.
 
KinasePro said:
Why do fleas whine so much?
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You mean when we are asked to do the job of a doctor by another doctor? Geez. I don't know. What could possibly be bothersome about that?

Though when patients occasionally try to crash and burn, I'm always there to pull an orthopedic surgeon's ass out of the fire.
 
jdh71 said:
You mean when we are asked to do the job of a doctor by another doctor? Geez. I don't know. What could possibly be bothersome about that?

Though when patients occasionally try to crash and burn, I'm always there to pull an orthopedic surgeon's ass out of the fire.
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All doctors are asked to do the jobs of other doctors... that's a natural by-product of being trained in general medicine (med school) and later sub-specializing.

But srsly, if you don't like medication management why did you go into internal medicine?
 
KinasePro said:
All doctors are asked to do the jobs of other doctors... that's a natural by-product of being trained in general medicine (med school) and later sub-specializing.

But srsly, if you don't like medication management why did you go into internal medicine?
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I'm in critical care. I run in when you guys run out. That's what I do.

All doctors should be able to manage medications. Ask the general surgeons. They do it all the time.

If you didn't want to manage medications why did you become a doctor?
 
jdh71 said:
I'm in critical care. I run in when you guys run out. That's what I do.

All doctors should be able to manage medications. Ask the general surgeons. They do it all the time.

If you didn't want to manage medications why did you become a doctor?
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Because you're field agrees to manage them for me while I practice within the scope of medicine I find more interesting. Said beautifully in another thread:

Tired said:
In all seriousness, this issue is really one of personnel manning. We operate a lot. A ton. I've never been in a hospital where Ortho wasn't far-and-away doing the most cases in the hospital. Even our interns operate more days than not. And when everyone is operating, pages don't get answered quickly, it's hard to do all the "care coordination" since non-surgeons seem to keep banker's hours, etc.

General Surgery coped with this type of situation by flooding their programs with prelim interns, medical students, and convincing everyone else to send them their interns. They have these huge teams, that seem to exist solely so that their seniors to operate. For better or worse, we didn't do that, so most of the time there's no intern for most of the teams, and the med students we have are all MS4s that we want in the operating room with us.

Yeah, we could probably be primary on every patient we operate on, and we could admit the "ortho-only" trauma cases. But that would really be sub-optimal for both patients and the hospital. So we figure out ways to get everyone else to do this for us.

Do I feel bad for wasting the time of Medicine (or occassionally Gen Surg)? Nope. They were going to be on the ward anyway, and they get paid for it. Plus, it's good practice for non-GME environments, where these are "easy patients" that the hospitalists and Medicine folks can bill for without doing a ton of work.
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