Matched Ortho this year, ask away

[KinasePro]

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Hm. So maybe it not just "fleas whining" but colleagues who do a very important job for you? Interesting.

Absolutely. Not my cup of tea from a career perspective, but I have tremendous respect for the medical specialties. FWIW, my interactions with them on ortho services has been largely positive.

But you did come into an ortho AMA thread whining, so I couldn't resist...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Interesting way to describe your own specialty. Your words, not mine.



Funny, the "real doctor" tasks we're discussing are done by NPs/PAs 99% of the time anyway. You live in a strange version of reality, my friend.

Not my specialty, I am outpatient family med. But yeah, if you are full time inpatient ortho "medical management" only then my words are likely accurate.

 

[medicalstadent]

do you have to try to honor every rotation to set yourself up for a good match?

 

[giantswing]

do you have to try to honor every rotation to set yourself up for a good match?

Your audition rotations? Yes.

Third year? Try to. Most don't honor all but third year grades matter.

 

[fantasty]

Not to beat a dead-horse and fan the flame war, but I lurked in during the hospitalist vs. ortho "conversation" and had a legit question that maybe you can answer.

Do the bundled payments of surgical hospitalizations cover the IM consults?

I agree - as residents, we despise them (when its the asinine normotensive, euglycemic +/- home meds, or the "clear for surgery" H & P when you already know whether or not you are taking them to surgery - if it seems like the recommendations are copied and pasted from guidelines in most cases, you can probably bet you could figure that out as well). And, where I trained, we couldn't even get the surgeons to agree on an evidence-based DVT prophylaxis standard. [okay, ending the subjective bitching].

Back to the question: in most cases, are your IM colleagues actually seeing RVU / productivity from these, or is it part of the bundled payments? And, do you know if it's different if you consulted IM as a perioperative ("clearance") visit (as we were essentially obligated to see them post-op)?

I'm not a hospitalist, and I should ask my friends who are. But, hospitalists have an exceeding high burn out rate. And, whether it's a true contributor or not, these types of complaints often percolate to the top of the list of why they dislike their jobs.

 

[RollieFingers]

Was only able to honor surgery and OB/GYN. Also ended up with a couple of passes and high passes. Step 1 is right at ortho average. Will I be weeded out of get my application tossed based on the passes? Do I have a shot at a decent number of interviews if I apply to 100+ places?

 

[TOcho118]

Was only able to honor surgery and OB/GYN. Also ended up with a couple of passes and high passes. Step 1 is right at ortho average. Will I be weeded out of get my application tossed based on the passes? Do I have a shot at a decent number of interviews if I apply to 100+ places?

Remember, the application is viewed as a complete package. 2 third year honors and a 245 step 1 make you average (or just slightly below average) in those categories. Now how strong is the rest of your app? Having 15 pubs vs 1 abstract makes a huge difference. AOA? Good letters of rec? I doubt that your app would get tossed at any places (except maybe a couple with ridiculously high step standards) as long as the rest of your app is rock solid.

 

[RollieFingers]

I've got AOA but only one semester of research that resulted in my name on a poster. No letters of rec yet, waiting for my AI this summer

 

[Ismet]

This is a reminder to keep posts civil, on topic, and professional.

This is an AMA for a student recently matched in ortho. The medicine vs. ortho mudslinging is off topic.

 

[pd1112]

For my upcoming MS3 year, I have one 4wk elective (sept) and one 3wk block of my 10wk surgery clerkship (nov-jan) that I can spend on ortho (not guaranteed, but can preference) at my home institution. We then are allowed a max of 12 weeks in any one field during MS4. Any advice on how I should utilize these options? Should I do any amount (3, 4, or 7wks) of ortho with the MS3 blocks and then do 3 aways and no home sub-i? Would I be better off taking an easy elective during that 4wk block and do ortho research on the side? Is 7 weeks of ortho at my home institution overkill during MS3? My first MS3 block is medicine and the elective is right after that. Research-wise, I have one first author retrospective ortho manuscript that I'll finish and submit by the end of this summer, one ortho basic science non-first author manuscript that will be completed this summer by another student, and a first author neurophysiology manuscript from undergrad.

 

[Oblique]

What did you write on your personal statement regarding the reasons why you want to go into orthopedic surgery.

I find this hard to address.
If you like operating and working with your hands, gen surg or any surg specialty will fulfill this. But why ortho specifically?

 

[PL198]

because grunting is the most efficient method of communication and you like playing human carpenter

 

[massmocha]

What did you write on your personal statement regarding the reasons why you want to go into orthopedic surgery.

I find this hard to address.
If you like operating and working with your hands, gen surg or any surg specialty will fulfill this. But why ortho specifically?

Outcomes! People in ortho get better, and improving quality of life happens in ortho unlike many gen surg specialties

 

[massmocha]

For my upcoming MS3 year, I have one 4wk elective (sept) and one 3wk block of my 10wk surgery clerkship (nov-jan) that I can spend on ortho (not guaranteed, but can preference) at my home institution. We then are allowed a max of 12 weeks in any one field during MS4. Any advice on how I should utilize these options? Should I do any amount (3, 4, or 7wks) of ortho with the MS3 blocks and then do 3 aways and no home sub-i? Would I be better off taking an easy elective during that 4wk block and do ortho research on the side? Is 7 weeks of ortho at my home institution overkill during MS3? My first MS3 block is medicine and the elective is right after that. Research-wise, I have one first author retrospective ortho manuscript that I'll finish and submit by the end of this summer, one ortho basic science non-first author manuscript that will be completed this summer by another student, and a first author neurophysiology manuscript from undergrad.

Do a home rotation (now that you've decided and can prove to home residents and faculty they should write you a letter), then do 2 away rotations where you want to go

 

[Oblique]

Outcomes! People in ortho get better, and improving quality of life happens in ortho unlike many gen surg specialties

Really? I did not know that. Do you have any articles to back this up? That would be very helpful. Thanks

 

[Bancrofti]

Do a home rotation (now that you've decided and can prove to home residents and faculty they should write you a letter), then do 2 away rotations where you want to go

Another Q (and anyone feel free to respond):

Likely most people will end up using their first 2-4 elective blocks of 4th year to do ortho electives. Likely everyone has a subi requirement... but we will have interviews before completing a subi for our school. Is it frowned upon to do a subi in medicine or peds if we're just doing it to fulfill a requirement?

Also, how flexible do you need to be during interview season. Should you anticipate having to go to interviews randomly as they come in anywhere from October to January or are most people lucky enough to schedule most of their interviews during a certain time frame? I.e. during the month of November

 

[massmocha]

Really? I did not know that. Do you have any articles to back this up? That would be very helpful. Thanks

Another Q (and anyone feel free to respond):

Likely most people will end up using their first 2-4 elective blocks of 4th year to do ortho electives. Likely everyone has a subi requirement... but we will have interviews before completing a subi for our school. Is it frowned upon to do a subi in medicine or peds if we're just doing it to fulfill a requirement?

Also, how flexible do you need to be during interview season. Should you anticipate having to go to interviews randomly as they come in anywhere from October to January or are most people lucky enough to schedule most of their interviews during a certain time frame? I.e. during the month of November

Depends on the school. Everyone at my school had to do a medicine sub-i, so all the surgical subspecialty people do them at the end of the year February/March when it doesn't count for anything.

Most ortho interviews are December-January, you will have a very few at the end of November, and some schools have some early February. You take what you can get and try to answer as soon as the invite comes out. You usually have overlaps, but be sure your schedule is clear in December-January.

 

[pd1112]

Do a home rotation (now that you've decided and can prove to home residents and faculty they should write you a letter), then do 2 away rotations where you want to go

Just to clarify, do a home rotation as in a sub-i in July of MS4 or during my MS3 elective block in lieu of a sub-i? My thought was that if I did the MS3 elective, I could get to know my home residents and faculty more personally since I would be the only student or one of two rotating at this time, vs. July sub-i when everyone going for ortho in my class would be rotating at the same time. The MS3 elective would also allow me to do a third away the following fall which might increase my odds elsewhere, but my elective block is early in MS3 so I'd still be a borderline n00b.

 

[massmocha]

Just to clarify, do a home rotation as in a sub-i in July of MS4 or during my MS3 elective block in lieu of a sub-i? My thought was that if I did the MS3 elective, I could get to know my home residents and faculty more personally since I would be the only student or one of two rotating at this time, vs. July sub-i when everyone going for ortho in my class would be rotating at the same time. The MS3 elective would also allow me to do a third away the following fall which might increase my odds elsewhere, but my elective block is early in MS3 so I'd still be a borderline n00b.

Typically you need to do a home sub-I to show your home program you can work hard and function at the sub-I level. An elective is usually not as rigorous

 

[pd1112]

@massmocha ok cool, thanks for the advice

 

[KinasePro]

What did you write on your personal statement regarding the reasons why you want to go into orthopedic surgery.

I find this hard to address.
If you like operating and working with your hands, gen surg or any surg specialty will fulfill this. But why ortho specifically?

Don't be a hero in your personal statement.... Just be honest and be yourself. If you want to go into ortho for boring reasons, then so be it. A genuine statement is far more preferred over some long winded, romanticized narrative.

You'll find in ortho that everyone's BS detectors are very sensitive. I've heard people say that nothing can be gained in your personal statement, but you can definitely shoot yourself in the foot if you go overboard. Just my $0.02. I always recommend playing it safe and just writing about what makes you a great person and an even better team player.

 

[Wordead]

Really? I did not know that. Do you have any articles to back this up? That would be very helpful. Thanks

I think this is more an empirical thing that's obvious to most people - patient comes in unable to walk/move arm/etc, and is able to function relatively soon after surgery. It's surgery where you can "see" the results (I can walk now!), unlike a lot of gen surg operations. Also theyre able to get people out pretty fast relative to other services (some places patient is discharged at POD1 on a consistent basis)...all things that lend themselves to high patient satisfaction.

 

[Kaustikos]

I think this is more an empirical thing that's obvious to most people - patient comes in unable to walk/move arm/etc, and is able to function relatively soon after surgery. It's surgery where you can "see" the results (I can walk now!), unlike a lot of gen surg operations. Also theyre able to get people out pretty fast relative to other services (some places patient is discharged at POD1 on a consistent basis)...all things that lend themselves to high patient satisfaction.

Unless you amputated the patients leg. Then they may have trouble...
Yeah, suck it, Ortho!
Totally kidding. I see your point.

 

[Wordead]

Unless you amputated the patients leg. Then they may have trouble...
Yeah, suck it, Ortho!
Totally kidding. I see your point.

Haha just blame it on vascular then 🙂

 

[Oblique]

Don't be a hero in your personal statement.... Just be honest and be yourself. If you want to go into ortho for boring reasons, then so be it. A genuine statement is far more preferred over some long winded, romanticized narrative.

You'll find in ortho that everyone's BS detectors are very sensitive. I've heard people say that nothing can be gained in your personal statement, but you can definitely shoot yourself in the foot if you go overboard. Just my $0.02. I always recommend playing it safe and just writing about what makes you a great person and an even better team player.

I agree with your point about being genuine.

Let's say I did go into Ortho because of some boring reasons that are not even worth mentioning.
Would it be better for me to not address why I want to go into ortho?
and just focus on why I would be a good match for any residency program?

 

[pathology_zombie]

Hey guys,

I have a paper to write I've been slacking on all semester so to keep my procrastination on the computer instead of leaving my house to do something I thought I'd start this thread. I matched this March into an ortho residency, feel free to ask some questions and I'll reply as I hammer out this paper.

I want to try for an ortho residency but I'm hearing that it's a boys only type club. As a female would I stand a good chance at getting a ortho residency? Also I wanted to know what steps you took to get matched into the ortho residency. I'm now an orthopedic technician and I'm trying to follow a ortho physician sometime in the future. Would doing some ortho related research help me in getting matched?

 

[volcomx]

I want to try for an ortho residency but I'm hearing that it's a boys only type club. As a female would I stand a good chance at getting a ortho residency? Also I wanted to know what steps you took to get matched into the ortho residency. I'm now an orthopedic technician and I'm trying to follow a ortho physician sometime in the future. Would doing some ortho related research help me in getting matched?

Are you in med school yet?

Most residency programs are actively trying to change that. Since so few women apply to ortho it is actually much easier to get into an ortho residency. Programs are trying to diversify their residency class with regards to gender and there just aren't enough girls to go around. There are some initiatives to get more women interested in ortho. At my school, female med students interested in ortho have their own interest club with female ortho faculty as their mentors. They have lots of meetings, are allowed to shadow in the OR, and have suture clinics. Guys interested in ortho have to find these activities on their own.

 

[Stagg737]

I want to try for an ortho residency but I'm hearing that it's a boys only type club. As a female would I stand a good chance at getting a ortho residency? Also I wanted to know what steps you took to get matched into the ortho residency. I'm now an orthopedic technician and I'm trying to follow a ortho physician sometime in the future. Would doing some ortho related research help me in getting matched?

I used to work for a group of ~100 orthos and about 15 were women. I think it's a combination of being a tough field for women to get into and just that there are less women interested in it than men. I think having experience in the field will help, but more experienced people can tell you how to actually get there.

 

[KinasePro]

I want to try for an ortho residency but I'm hearing that it's a boys only type club. As a female would I stand a good chance at getting a ortho residency? Also I wanted to know what steps you took to get matched into the ortho residency. I'm now an orthopedic technician and I'm trying to follow a ortho physician sometime in the future. Would doing some ortho related research help me in getting matched?

Women applying to ortho is similar to men applying to OB/GYN. There is absolutely a noticeable benefit to being the minority gender in each case, no doubt. All ortho departments are actively recruiting qualified women to be residents. Most women who applied this year will agree. There is still a "boy's club" vibe at many programs, but I guarantee that those department chairs are trying to change that...

 

[Dral]

I finished my aways a while ago but I think the answer was always page medicine

When I was a med student on psych rotation, we got called by Ortho. We looked up the pt and she had a ton of Hx...cardiac, psych, rheum stuff, some ID stuff, a positive ANA.

We go up to Ortho floor and look at the Ortho H&P in the chart. Under PMHx, it just says "?Lupus"

We Lol'd

And if I could help move along the Ortho vs IM thing...hospitals want to make money. That is their main goal. Orthos make money in the OR and clinic (where they get OR cases). From a hospital standpoint, having them on the floors managing med issues is money falling through the cracks.

I'm not saying that's how it should be (but as someone else pointed out, only the GI guys I've seen have been busier than Ortho...it makes more sense for them to mainly do Ortho work), but it is what it is.