Matching Cards as a US Grad

[reedgw]

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Wanted to lend some perspective for US grads who might be thinking about cardio in the future. At my school, there are quite a few students with stellar board scores that would otherwise be interested in cardio doing other specialties b/c they don't want to have to apply into fellowship after IM, afraid of having to go through the match process twice. I was one of these people until I got honest with myself and decided that I wouldn't have been happy doing anything else but cardio. I looked at the match data which helped me in my decision as well.

Looking at the 2009 NRMP Fellowship Match Data, it's pretty clear that cardio is a very competitive field. Total number of applicants last year was 1159 for 712 spots, meaning that only 61.7% of applicants actually landed spots.

There were 496 AMG applicants and 421 matched. About 84.8% of AMGs matched. It looks like about 42.3% of non-AMG applicants matched after you do the math. US grads have about twice the odds of matching based on statistics alone.

If you're a US grad and you get into a respected IM program with a decent shot of matching internally, you should feel pretty good about matching there or elsewhere. If you can confidently say that as an AMG you'd be in the top 1/2 of your applicant pool (regarding all of the factors - research, IM program, LOR, etc...), that should make you feel even better about matching cardio and would probably boost your chances well over 90%. Obviously, these are broad generalizations based on the data provided by the NRMP. But, with this in mind, matching cardio doesn't seem as impossible, and I think that smart US grads who are interested in cards should be encouraged to try for it rather than settle for something else instead.

I wasn't trying to degrade or scare any IMGs, just wanted to share the numbers with everyone. Feel free to share your thoughts.

 

[Medicine2009]

I wasn't trying to degrade or scare any IMGs, just wanted to share the numbers with everyone. Feel free to share your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you about the difficulty in matching in Cardio,without any doubt it is the most competitive fellowship ,but my guess is that ,if a candidate has All what it takes (i.e stellar Board scores ,IM residency in well respected program,research and Pubs,LORs...etc), He/she will have have high chance of getting in Weather he is IMG or AMG.
SO it depends on the Candidate qualifications and merits rather than being Local or international Graduate.
Just wanted to share my thought.

 

[dragonfly99]

If you look at the past several years, the match rate for US grads hovers in the very high 70% range. So I agree in general with the OP.

As far as the match rate for those who aren't allopathic US grads, remember that that group includes US born/citizen IMG's, true FMG's (i.e. those that did med school abroad and also need a visa) and US DO grads. So it's always hard to know/separate out what the average match rate for each of those groups would be. I think those groups, even with similar credentials, tend to have a bit harder time matching. HOWEVER, I also think that fewer of them have "all the factors" felt necessary in the cardiology applicant and that tends to hurt them. For one thing, far fewer of these people do residency at well known university IM programs, and that makes it harder for them to match cards. Part of this is just bias, most likely, but also @some community programs there is less exposure to really sick patients, such as ICU patients, etc. and program directors know this and it makes them wonder if a resident will be "ready" for cards fellowships. A lot of programs just would rather not deal with having to get a visa for someone, either, which makes the bar get set higher for FMG's who need a visa. Some DO students tend to not do too great on standardized tests, which can hurt somewhat as the USMLE is used as a selection factor at some cards fellowship programs. All these are generalizations but I think there is truth there as well.

 

[Medicine2009]

From the match stats ,we can see that AMG have Higher chance of Matching into Cards more than IMGs ,No need to state the Obvious ,,what is the reason ? are they smarter or more passionate about cards than their counterparts ?

I guess the answer is NO...I am sure you and I deeply inside know that the system is Biased (toward AMGs and against IMGs)and you can find a hundred reasons for that,but what i was pointing to is if it was only based on MERITS and QUALIFICATIONS ,,would the match result be the Same?

One comment about the Visa issue,any IMG who did residency In IM doesn't need to get new visa for fellowship,Because it is the same visa he already got 3 years ago,it is just an excuse not to give him the spot.

After finishing residency training in US ,is it really relevant to judge him/her on Where he/she went to Med school? is it American or international school?,,it is part of the History now.if you ask where he/she did residency ,i guess it would be more acceptable .
Overall it is unfair game.🙄

 

[Myostatin]

I have seen IMG's who have trained at top tier IM programs do just as well as equivalently talented AMG's in the cards match - one of the key problems is getting into a top tier IM program as an IMG. Is there some bias in the process - yes. I can understand why this would be for US citizens training abroad, and it is perhaps less acceptable for people who went to med school in their home countries. That being said, from the standpoint of US students, it is a bit inane that over 1/2 of US Med school applicants are denied entrance to med school, and yet foreign graduates are able to gain entrance to medical training at the postgraduate level, comparatively relativey easily.

 

[Ashrouf]

I have seen IMG's who have trained at top tier IM programs do just as well as equivalently talented AMG's in the cards match - one of the key problems is getting into a top tier IM program as an IMG. Is there some bias in the process - yes. I can understand why this would be for US citizens training abroad, and it is perhaps less acceptable for people who went to med school in their home countries. That being said, from the standpoint of US students, it is a bit inane that over 1/2 of US Med school applicants are denied entrance to med school, and yet foreign graduates are able to gain entrance to medical training at the postgraduate level, comparatively relativey easily.

I totally agree with you. The problem that we have here is a limited number of US medical school spots. I think that more than 1/2 of US medical school applicants don't get in.

There is another part to this dilema. The student loans. As we all know medical school costs a lot here. Not so much for foreign countries. Also, the cost to sponsor a resident who is a citizen vs. someone who needs visa is disproportionate (I have been quoted that they cost 50% more than citizens). I think some of that money should be diverted into investing more spots in medical schools here, and some government subsidies to cover tuition. I am not against the foriegn medical graduates or foreigners, I am just thinking of how to make an existing system work better. There is always plenty of spots for training here. That's just a thought.

 

[Jac1]

I have seen IMG's who have trained at top tier IM programs do just as well as equivalently talented AMG's in the cards match - one of the key problems is getting into a top tier IM program as an IMG. Is there some bias in the process - yes. I can understand why this would be for US citizens training abroad, and it is perhaps less acceptable for people who went to med school in their home countries. That being said, from the standpoint of US students, it is a bit inane that over 1/2 of US Med school applicants are denied entrance to med school, and yet foreign graduates are able to gain entrance to medical training at the postgraduate level, comparatively relativey easily.

I always believe that US should support its own graduates before choosing an IMG. However, I see most of the AMG's whining how 1/2 the applicants did not get in and the competitiveness of getting into med school. In my country, only 1 in 100 applicants get into the med school. And the rich, they pay an equivalent amount of money as AMG's to get trained in private medical schools. No offence!