Maternity Leave

[bd1987]

I know some of you won't agree with this, but I have to get it off my chest.

Resident in a surgical specialty here. I'm single. My program has more children than residents. Yet another resident is pregnant, this time it's one of my classmates. The schedule for next year came out the other day. Now my PD is already trying to change it (why she didn't address these issues before releasing it is beyond me) to accommodate for this resident's due date. The way it's set up, I'm the one who gets screwed. I have to take an extended period of night float, plus I'm the back-up for if she delivers early before that anyway. Then on the back end, I can already tell I'm going to get stuck covering a couple of weekends for her while she's on her 6 weeks of free vacation.

I'm sick of covering for people so they can sit on their ass and not work. It's a small program, so when there's constantly someone gone, the rest of us get screwed. I'm never going to get free time off like this, so why am I the one getting shafted again? Should the folks who had a baby have to bear the brunt of this? Better yet, how about the person having their 2nd baby in 3 years?!?! Not to mention if you even say your kid has a sniffle you get to not come in/leave early. I complained once and was told that I'd get to leave early, so it'd be fine for me to schedule a dentist appointment or something like that, well, that is, as long as it's not busy.... So how exactly am I supposed to schedule an appointment? People schedule stuff for their kids and get off all the time. Does it ever end?

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[Psyche Estrelle]

Hmm, in my family medicine program (non surgical obviously) we had a couple of residents that took maternity leave, and we definitely covered for them when they were gone, but when they came back… The schedule they had to take to make it all up, I wouldn't have wished on my worst enemy. For that reason, no one complained. I'm a little surprised your program isn't doing something similar, unless I missed something in your post. Do you notice that you get a little break on your schedule from nightfloats when the resident returns?

Edited to add (in the interest of fairness) that we had also had some co-residents (of both genders) need to take medical leave and we did exactly the same thing, cover for them when they needed us, and they took many of our calls in return when they came back. It wasn't just maternity leave.

 

[Gastrapathy]

It doesn't end. Your female partners will expect accommodation too. My female partners are the ones who try to keep us from hiring other women for that reason. They don't want anyone else on the mommy track because it's killer for overhead. It's probably why they hired me when I left the military.

It could be worse, you could be the one with the uterus.

My wife's job has had to cover for her during baby having time. If you don't want to work with women, you can always get a job in Dubai. Personally I'm just glad they carry the babies.

It isn't fair but there is no way to complain without looking like a tool. Are you under work hours? If so, it doesn't have to be fair.

 

[22031 Alum]

I know some of you won't agree with this, but I have to get it off my chest.

Resident in a surgical specialty here. I'm single. My program has more children than residents. Yet another resident is pregnant, this time it's one of my classmates. The schedule for next year came out the other day. Now my PD is already trying to change it (why she didn't address these issues before releasing it is beyond me) to accommodate for this resident's due date. The way it's set up, I'm the one who gets screwed. I have to take an extended period of night float, plus I'm the back-up for if she delivers early before that anyway. Then on the back end, I can already tell I'm going to get stuck covering a couple of weekends for her while she's on her 6 weeks of free vacation.

I'm sick of covering for people so they can sit on their ass and not work. It's a small program, so when there's constantly someone gone, the rest of us get screwed. I'm never going to get free time off like this, so why am I the one getting shafted again? Should the folks who had a baby have to bear the brunt of this? Better yet, how about the person having their 2nd baby in 3 years?!?! Not to mention if you even say your kid has a sniffle you get to not come in/leave early. I complained once and was told that I'd get to leave early, so it'd be fine for me to schedule a dentist appointment or something like that, well, that is, as long as it's not busy.... So how exactly am I supposed to schedule an appointment? People schedule stuff for their kids and get off all the time. Does it ever end?

I know it's frustrating. At one point my program had to have seniors covering for pregnant interns- you can imagine how that went over. But the patients have to be taken care of, and you can't control when people choose to have kids. You also can't control when they decide to share that news, which is probably why your PD/chiefs couldn't adjust the schedule earlier. And, you can't control whether people show any gratitude for you covering for them. The inequity re: leaving early is something your leadership could address, but they might not even think it's unfair. Basically it just sucks. (But I wouldn't call maternity leave sitting on one's ass, just because it happens to be something other than residency...)

 

[giantswing]

Fwiw, i am a married woman about to start a surgical subspecialty in july, and i will not WILL NOT have a baby in residency. I'd terminate an accidental pregnancy.

I've worked with women who used kids and pregnancy as an excuse to not do work and I will never be that person.

But I have no control over others choices and will do what I must at me job without making a fuss. I get what you are saying tho.

 

[GoSpursGo]

It does suck, especially in a small program. But there's never a "good" time to have a kid in medicine, be it in training or when you're just getting started as an attending, so everyone has to do what they have to do to start their family if having kids is important to them. We already sacrifice so much for our careers, you can't really expect someone to sacrifice starting a family.

FWIW, it probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I promise they're still doing plenty of work when they're out on maternity leave or taking care of a sick kid

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm a man, in a surgical residency.

I certainly understand your frustration, but I think you need to check your attitude. I'd hope that these people are at the very least your colleagues if not your friends.

If you think maternity leave is a six week vacation, I don't know what to tell you. Talk to some moms for starters. Pick up the slack and try being happy for them instead of bitter.

Every resident I know who has been pregnant has busted their butt to keep up, constantly felt internal pressure to pull their weight, and worried about what people think about them. Your attitude is their worst fears confirmed.

 

[bd1987]

I am the one with a uterus, for the record, just it's a uterus that I never intend to have occupied. The pregnancy was known before the schedule was made up and has been public knowledge for quite some time. As for maternity leave not being a vacation--explain to me why one of them who popped one out last year was around on PPD#4 parading the baby around and looking for attention. Then she decided to screw us all over and take 8 weeks instead of 6, which she told the PD about less than a week before she was supposed to come back. None of them are grateful or even say thank you for covering for them. Instead, it's expected. One time when we got annihilated because someone's kid was barfing at daycare (pretty sure your kid can stay there and barf, btw), she ditched clinic, had time to participate in a resident group text going around (those of us in clinic didn't read it until hours later because we were so in the weeds), and sent us an e-mail looking for sympathy. It's crap like that that has made me bitter. Concerns have been brought up to the PD, but she does nothing to stop any of this.

You're in residency. That's your number one priority. Children should never be an excuse, much less take precedence over this. It's only a few years of your life, and your 6 month old isn't going to know you weren't there anyway! Sorry for the rant.

 

[22031 Alum]

I am the one with a uterus, for the record, just it's a uterus that I never intend to have occupied. The pregnancy was known before the schedule was made up and has been public knowledge for quite some time. As for maternity leave not being a vacation--explain to me why one of them who popped one out last year was around on PPD#4 parading the baby around and looking for attention. Then she decided to screw us all over and take 8 weeks instead of 6, which she told the PD about less than a week before she was supposed to come back. None of them are grateful or even say thank you for covering for them. Instead, it's expected. One time when we got annihilated because someone's kid was barfing at daycare (pretty sure your kid can stay there and barf, btw), she ditched clinic, had time to participate in a resident group text going around (those of us in clinic didn't read it until hours later because we were so in the weeds), and sent us an e-mail looking for sympathy. It's crap like that that has made me bitter. Concerns have been brought up to the PD, but she does nothing to stop any of this.

You're in residency. That's your number one priority. Children should never be an excuse, much less take precedence over this. It's only a few years of your life, and your 6 month old isn't going to know you weren't there anyway! Sorry for the rant.

This is clearly coming from an irrational, angry place- that's cool, you warned us that you were venting. But you don't have to have kids to know that they absolutely are not allowed to stay at school or daycare if barfing. That's pretty common knowledge. Your beliefs that having a kid means you can never text, leave your home, or do anything else, otherwise it's a vacation-- I'll just let you keep those. If you ever change your mind about using your uterus, you'll learn. And your belief that anything not residency is a vacation unworthy of being considered work: you'll figure that out too. Most people do.

 

[startswithb]

Also, I believe the time used for maternity leave is that year's entire vacation packed with an extra 2 weeks to make 6 weeks off in one block. So you are getting 2 weeks less "vacation" than them, but they also don't get paid their full salary during this time either as it is usually paid through disability. The same would be if you had to take a medical leave. At least your 3-4 weeks vacation time can be spent vacationing! Gah I'm so jealous of that unoccupied uterus with all her free time and travels!

 

[startswithb]

Fwiw, i am a married woman about to start a surgical subspecialty in july, and i will not WILL NOT have a baby in residency. I'd terminate an accidental pregnancy.

I've worked with women who used kids and pregnancy as an excuse to not do work and I will never be that person.

Why does a woman hardworking and ambitious enough to land a surgical subspecialty residency, with the obvious goal to become a surgeon, need to change her personality and just "not do work" once having a child? Does that make sense to you? I would think, as SouthernSurgeon said, that most pregnant surgeons are busting their asses to complete their work and stay sharp. Give yourself some credit.

 

[Psyche Estrelle]

Also...lol you're in OB/gyn. You should have seen this coming...

Actually, I think the fact that she's ob/gyn makes her feelings on the subject less surprising. At my hospital I clearly remember the ob residents were still expected (by their peers mostly) to come and do maternity rounds and/or clinic even if they were febrile, actively vomiting, or having explosive diarrhea. (Again, I'm not in a surgical specialty, but this does seem a little excessive to me

 

[giantswing]

Why does a woman hardworking and ambitious enough to land a surgical subspecialty residency, with the obvious goal to become a surgeon, need to change her personality and just "not do work" once having a child? Does that make sense to you? I would think, as SouthernSurgeon said, that most pregnant surgeons are busting their asses to complete their work and stay sharp. Give yourself some credit.

Those women weren't in the medical field, different area.

At times it'd suck to have to pick up when coworkers were gone, but it is what it is, they havevtheir dues to pay too.

I just don't want to have a baby during residency, but understand if others do. I also understand the frusteration of coworkers.

 

[22031 Alum]

Actually, I think the fact that she's ob/gyn makes her feelings on the subject less surprising. At my hospital I clearly remember the ob residents were still expected (by their peers mostly) to come and do maternity rounds and/or clinic even if they were febrile, actively vomiting, or having explosive diarrhea. (Again, I'm not in a surgical specialty, but this does seem a little excessive to me

Can confirm. The expectation was pretty much to work unless you were actively dying. However, I think @SouthernSurgeon was making the point that an OB should understand that pregnancy, childbirth and the postpartum period are far from a vacation. Add to that the fact that it is surely terrifying to be pregnant and know exactly how many crazy, terrible things can happen with you or the fetus at any moment. And finally, OB is a short procedural residency. For the interns and second years I've seen take maternity leave, those lost weeks make a HUGE difference when it comes to lagging behind their peers, and that adds to the anxiety. Basically, it's no walk in the park, despite what OP thinks. It seems like her program leadership isn't being equitable about things like leaving early, and her co-residents aren't showing gratitude to the people covering for them. But neither of those things can be changed. Luckily residency is a limited time.

 

[22031 Alum]

My thoughts were nowhere that deep, lol.

I just meant that OB/gyn residents are stereotypically notorious for being baby factories themselves.

Dude, take the credit and roll with it.

 

[upchit]

To the OP, I used to have thoughts like you did when I had to cover clinical work for a colleague who was on maternity leave. Then I got to know her, and I realized that she wanted to have a family like any "male counterpart." She was in her 30s and was concerned about the risk of having children after age 35, so decided to have them in her early 30s, even though the timing with respect to her career wasn't optimal. When she explained this it really hit home to me and I respected her for balancing everything at work with a family. Also, when she came back from maternity leave, she took extra calls to "make it up" to me which was really unnecessary.

At least smart women (physicians) are procreating so there's one small force populating the world with smart kids which might combat our future as the film "Idiocracy" would have it.

 

[Gastrapathy]

My thoughts were nowhere that deep, lol.

I just meant that OB/gyn residents are stereotypically notorious for being baby factories themselves.

And mean. Mean baby factories.

 

[thehundredthone]

To the OP, I used to have thoughts like you did when I had to cover clinical work for a colleague who was on maternity leave. Then I got to know her, and I realized that she wanted to have a family like any "male counterpart." She was in her 30s and was concerned about the risk of having children after age 35, so decided to have them in her early 30s, even though the timing with respect to her career wasn't optimal. When she explained this it really hit home to me and I respected her for balancing everything at work with a family. Also, when she came back from maternity leave, she took extra calls to "make it up" to me which was really unnecessary.

At least smart women (physicians) are procreating so there's one small force populating the world with smart kids which might combat our future as the film "Idiocracy" would have it.

I think the crux of the issue is resentment against those that don't acknowledge the slack that's been/being picked up. It is a huge challenge to balance having a career and having children, but it is also a choice. I think rather than just the covering residents, both parties should be allowed to be told to "suck it up" - in the sense that they respect the extra work being done to enable this choice both on the part of the mother and the residents covering for her. The colleague you're talking about did exactly that (and then some), and is a great example.

 

[anonperson]

I know some of you won't agree with this, but I have to get it off my chest.

Resident in a surgical specialty here. I'm single. My program has more children than residents. Yet another resident is pregnant, this time it's one of my classmates. The schedule for next year came out the other day. Now my PD is already trying to change it (why she didn't address these issues before releasing it is beyond me) to accommodate for this resident's due date. The way it's set up, I'm the one who gets screwed. I have to take an extended period of night float, plus I'm the back-up for if she delivers early before that anyway. Then on the back end, I can already tell I'm going to get stuck covering a couple of weekends for her while she's on her 6 weeks of free vacation.

I'm sick of covering for people so they can sit on their ass and not work. It's a small program, so when there's constantly someone gone, the rest of us get screwed. I'm never going to get free time off like this, so why am I the one getting shafted again? Should the folks who had a baby have to bear the brunt of this? Better yet, how about the person having their 2nd baby in 3 years?!?! Not to mention if you even say your kid has a sniffle you get to not come in/leave early. I complained once and was told that I'd get to leave early, so it'd be fine for me to schedule a dentist appointment or something like that, well, that is, as long as it's not busy.... So how exactly am I supposed to schedule an appointment? People schedule stuff for their kids and get off all the time. Does it ever end?

It's a no win situation. You can't complain about it and there is nothing you can do about it. You can either be bitter and let it ruin your residency or just realize that residency is a very temporary part of your life and all of the unfairness won't matter a bit in a few months/years. I used to get pretty pissed off at this kind of petty stuff but now I can barely remember any of it. I know it's not the answer you're looking for but at this point it's the only answer that will make you sane. Work hard, train well, move on.

 

[hamstergang]

You're in residency. That's your number one priority. Children should never be an excuse, much less take precedence over this. It's only a few years of your life, and your 6 month old isn't going to know you weren't there anyway! Sorry for the rant.

This is wrong and terrible. The early years of a child's life are some of the most important for bonding and being there so as to not screw them over for the rest of their life. Not making your child a priority in many cases is neglectful.

 

[giantswing]

This is wrong and terrible. The early years of a child's life are some of the most important for bonding and being there so as to not screw them over for the rest of their life. Not making your child a priority in many cases is neglectful.

So what if a woman has to work? Leaving a kid at home with a dad or a responsible care giver isn't going to screw up anyone for life.

GET OVER IT.

 

[Wordead]

This is wrong and terrible. The early years of a child's life are some of the most important for bonding and being there so as to not screw them over for the rest of their life. Not making your child a priority in many cases is neglectful.

Devil's advocate - what about not screwing over your colleagues? Or you could argue that you're not prioritizing your patients. I'm not saying that the child shouldnt be a priority, but its not so cut and dry. I think at least the burden placed on OP should be made up when co-residents come back from maternity leave.

 

[hamstergang]

So what if a woman has to work? Leaving a kid at home with a dad or a responsible care giver isn't going to screw up anyone for life.

GET OVER IT.

Devil's advocate - what about not screwing over your colleagues? Or you could argue that you're not prioritizing your patients. I'm not saying that the child shouldnt be a priority, but its not so cut and dry. I think at least the burden placed on OP should be made up when co-residents come back from maternity leave.

To both of you, I'm not saying that she should take 3 years off after having a kid, or always go home early, or that reasonable alternatives to her being around don't exist. But it's still a newborn child, and those require some of your attention. OP said that since the child isn't forming memories yet there's no harm in not being around, but what we've learned about child development tells us this isn't true. This is a difficult situation as there are many demands that are nearly impossible to prioritize, but OP's solution of ignoring the child since it won't remember is bad and wrong.

 

[giantswing]

To both of you, I'm not saying that she should take 3 years off after having a kid, or always go home early, or that reasonable alternatives to her being around don't exist. But it's still a newborn child, and those require some of your attention. OP said that since the child isn't forming memories yet there's no harm in not being around, but what we've learned about child development tells us this isn't true. This is a difficult situation as there are many demands that are nearly impossible to prioritize, but OP's solution of ignoring the child since it won't remember is bad and wrong.

Even when working 90 hrs a week you're not going home and ignoring your kid, or your spouse.

Another care giver, dad, full time nanny, grandparent, can do just as good a job. There are different types of mothers.

You really want to screw up your kid? Strictly enfore gender roles.

 

[Wordead]

To both of you, I'm not saying that she should take 3 years off after having a kid, or always go home early, or that reasonable alternatives to her being around don't exist. But it's still a newborn child, and those require some of your attention. OP said that since the child isn't forming memories yet there's no harm in not being around, but what we've learned about child development tells us this isn't true. This is a difficult situation as there are many demands that are nearly impossible to prioritize, but OP's solution of ignoring the child since it won't remember is bad and wrong.

Yeah I dont agree that the child doesnt remember anything or those years arent significant - they are (and really, an OB should probably know that). I just don't think it was clear as your post made it out to be. I dont think its right to prioritize the child above all else, at all times, that's all. The resident doesn't have to be the one cancelling clinic or call to take care of a child. Have a partner or hired help pick the child up from school and take care of them when sick.

And to be clear, I fully support maternity leave. I just want the OP "made whole", for lack of a better term.

 

[Mass Effect]

One time when we got annihilated because someone's kid was barfing at daycare (pretty sure your kid can stay there and barf, btw), she ditched clinic, had time to participate in a resident group text going around (those of us in clinic didn't read it until hours later because we were so in the weeds), and sent us an e-mail looking for sympathy. It's crap like that that has made me bitter. Concerns have been brought up to the PD, but she does nothing to stop any of this.

You're in residency. That's your number one priority. Children should never be an excuse, much less take precedence over this. It's only a few years of your life, and your 6 month old isn't going to know you weren't there anyway! Sorry for the rant.

Let me guess, you went straight from undergrad to med school to residency. You sound extremely young and naive (who doesn't know that kids can't stay in daycare when they're vomiting?). Children most certainly DO take precedence when a daycare center calls to tell you they're vomiting and need to be picked up. Residency, like medicine, is a JOB, not your life. And if it is your life, then really, that's your issue, not your colleague's. Programs have sick days/leave for a reason.

So what if a woman has to work? Leaving a kid at home with a dad or a responsible care giver isn't going to screw up anyone for life.

GET OVER IT.

Again, programs have sick days and maternity leave for a reason. Learn to deal with it.

 

[giantswing]

Again, programs have sick days and maternity leave for a reason. Learn to deal with it.

Right, take your maternity leave, fine. Do what you have to do, but be kind to your coworkers.

I have issues with people who always leave early, think they're entitled to days or holidays off because they have kids ( as if those of us wo kids don't have family). Yes kids get sick but residency isn't some mommy track career. Have a back up plan in place, because someday your kid will have to be picked up early. You're a working physician, not some part time secretary.

 

[Mass Effect]

Right, take your maternity leave, fine. Do what you have to do, but be kind to your coworkers.

I have issues with people who always leave early, think they're entitled to days or holidays off because they have kids ( as if those of us wo kids don't have family). Yes kids get sick but residency isn't some mommy track career. Have a back up plan in place, because someday your kid will have to be picked up early. You're a working physician, not some part time secretary.

Being a physician doesn't mean you can't be a parent. It's a J O B, which is what you seem to be losing sight of. So much hostility.

 

[michaelrack]

Residency, like medicine, is a JOB, not your life.

Residency should be your life- that's why it is called "residency"- you are supposed to "reside" in the hospital

 

[Raryn]

Lot of programs don't have sick days, FYI. Especially surgical programs

There exists no residency program where if you are febrile, projectile vomiting, and have terrible constant diarrhea you are contractually forbidden from calling in. There's plenty of programs (ESPECIALLY in smaller specialties) that might have a culture of never calling in, but I'd love to see a contract that didn't make an allowance for sick days.

 

[Winged Scapula]

There exists no residency program where if you are febrile, projectile vomiting, and have terrible constant diarrhea you are contractually forbidden from calling in. There's plenty of programs (ESPECIALLY in smaller specialties) that might have a culture of never calling in, but I'd love to see a contract that didn't make an allowance for sick days.

If I could find mine from residency, then I could clearly show you the passage that stated (paraphrased from memory), "sick days provided by the institution are required to be sold by the department; proceeds will be paid during your final pay period for the year".

I'm sure @SouthernSurgeon 's program has something similar.

 

[22031 Alum]

There exists no residency program where if you are febrile, projectile vomiting, and have terrible constant diarrhea you are contractually forbidden from calling in. There's plenty of programs (ESPECIALLY in smaller specialties) that might have a culture of never calling in, but I'd love to see a contract that didn't make an allowance for sick days.

If I still had my residency contract, I could show you one. It's not as rare as you think. Being sick is what vacations were for.

 

[Mass Effect]

Lot of programs don't have sick days, FYI. Especially surgical programs

So if you were too sick to go to work and called in, would they fire you?

Residency should be your life- that's why it is called "residency"- you are supposed to "reside" in the hospital

No, you're not supposed to "reside" in the hospital these days. If you were, there wouldn't be duty hour restrictions. Yes, I'm aware that's how residency came to be called residency, but it's time to move past that age of medicine as it's no longer relevant today.

 

[22031 Alum]

So if you were too sick to go to work and called in, would they fire you?

The general rule was, you didn't call in, you showed up and got sent home. If you were sick enough. Every once in a while someone would call in, but it was pretty rare.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

So if you were too sick to go to work and called in, would they fire you?

Residents do qualify for FMLA protection, which gives you up to 90 days of leave for either your own or a dependent's medical needs. Technically, FMLA doesn't kick in until you've been employed for a year, so programs could deny it to interns. Also, FMLA just means they can't fire you -- it doesn't mean you have to get paid. So, no, they couldn't fire you for calling in sick (unless maybe you're in a intern, and they're super hard core), but I guess calling in could make you look bad and make it less likely for them to renew your contract, which essentially means getting fired. I will say that this not calling in ever thing is (I think) really just a thing with surgical types of residencies or maybe particularly malignant non-surgical places.

To the op, I get your frustration -- it sucks to have to pick up what seems like an unfair share of the burden, especially when you're already pretty close to your maximum, which I'm guessing you are in a surgical type of field. I agree with the others that maternity leave isn't vacation, but as a non-kid having person myself, there's also something to the idea that residents are gaining something by taking maternity leave -- they generally opted to get pregnant and view having a kid as a good thing. Being unappreciative of others covering for them is a little obnoxious. I agree, though, that I would hate for anyone who wanted to have kids to not have them because of training constraints -- and having kids is a time limited thing, so asking people not to do it during residency is actually asking a lot of them. I might be projecting, but I'm wondering if some of your negative feelings are also coming from a feeling of being excluded from the "norman woman" club or whatever, which happens when you don't have kids. All these kid having people only want to talk to other kid having people because they are the only ones who will understand or whatever. Women who have kids can be pretty dismissive of women who don't have kids, which is kind of annoying. I know I'm generalizing here, but I think there's something deeper than just call schedules when it comes to this having kids issue.

 

[Mass Effect]

The general rule was, you didn't call in, you showed up and got sent home. If you were sick enough. Every once in a while someone would call in, but it was pretty rare.

Thank goodness I didn't like or choose surgery is all I can say

 

[link2swim06]

The bottom line is everyone knew the hour requirements prior to residency. If this is not compatible with your ability to raise a child then pick something else. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Or better yet, figure out how to do both.

It's very reasonable to have 6 weeks off but those hours should be made up to even everything out in the end. That makes it fair to everyone and makes everyone's net hours worked comparable.

 

[Wordead]

So if you were too sick to go to work and called in, would they fire you?



No, you're not supposed to "reside" in the hospital these days. If you were, there wouldn't be duty hour restrictions. Yes, I'm aware that's how residency came to be called residency, but it's time to move past that age of medicine as it's no longer relevant today.

Duty hours are not a thing in a lot of surgery programs. Whether day to day or the vague loophole of "home call".

 

[giantswing]

Being a physician doesn't mean you can't be a parent. It's a J O B, which is what you seem to be losing sight of. So much hostility.

You said you're in a non surgical specialty? Bingo, the diference between surgey and medicine.

 

[Mass Effect]

The bottom line is everyone knew the hour requirements prior to residency. If this is not compatible with your ability to raise a child then pick something else. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Or better yet, figure out how to do both.

Sounds like they are doing both. As long as they're playing by the rules and are able to do it, then the program they chose is obviously compatible with this ability since it's getting done. That's the OP's beef.

It's very reasonable to have 6 weeks off but those hours should be made up to even everything out in the end. That makes it fair to everyone and makes everyone's net hours worked comparable.

That should be up to the program to require it. I'm actually surprised they don't.

You said you're in a non surgical specialty? Bingo, the diference between surgey and medicine.

I don't know that it would be any more accepted in medicine. There's still plenty of people like you who would be resentful if an IM resident took maternity leave. I'm in psych and even in psych, I can see people like you and the OP being resentful. What I'm saying is whether you're in surgery or neuro or medicine or psych, it's still a job. Asking people, even surgeons-in-training, not to have children because it's inconvenient for you is too much to ask.

 

[rokshana]

I'm surprised that those that take leave( maternity, medical whatever) don't have to make up the time...calls clinics other cover etc...to the point if they exceed the time off allowed by acgme (which will trump any institution or fmla time off) they don't finish in time and go off cycle...sounds like the OP should really be annoyed the her program doesn't make those that take the leave have to pay back the work...

 

[22031 Alum]

I'm surprised that those that take leave( maternity, medical whatever) don't have to make up the time...calls clinics other cover etc...to the point if they exceed the time off allowed by acgme (which will trump any institution or fmla time off) they don't finish in time and go off cycle...sounds like the OP should really be annoyed the her program doesn't make those that take the leave have to pay back the work...

Formal leave doesn't have to be paid back to anyone. That's why it's leave- you are taken out of the schedule entirely. If your leave exceeds the amount the ACGME allows, you do have to extend residency and graduate off-cycle. That isn't paying back your co-workers, it is making up for the fact that you have missed too much time. If you are in the schedule and a call or shift has to be covered, that should be paid back to the person who covers.

I can definitely understand the root of OP's frustration, even if I don't agree with every point. It's basic human decency to show gratitude to the people who cover for you or help make your leave possible. Sounds like she is dealing with entitled behavior instead. I was lucky to be in a program that was very good about leave, as well as being fair about holidays etc. Nobody was considered more entitled to holidays just because they had kids. Everybody has a family, after all.

 

[hamstergang]

It's very reasonable to have 6 weeks off but those hours should be made up to even everything out in the end. That makes it fair to everyone and makes everyone's net hours worked comparable.

That would certainly be nice, but we're no longer in Kindergarten. We should be able to tolerate things not being fair.
Edit: that said, the one on maternity leave should try to work to make it fair once back, as that is also the adult thing to do.

 

[michaelrack]

No, you're not supposed to "reside" in the hospital these days. If you were, there wouldn't be duty hour restrictions. Yes, I'm aware that's how residency came to be called residency, but it's time to move past that age of medicine as it's no longer relevant today.

The purpose of the duty hour restrictions are patient safety, not work-life balance, etc. Residents should make sure, whenever possible, to get 7-8.5 hours of sleep per night, but otherwise they should be devoted to medicine, which is a calling, not just a job.

 

[Mass Effect]

The purpose of the duty hour restrictions are patient safety, not work-life balance, etc. Residents should make sure, whenever possible, to get 7-8.5 hours of sleep per night, but otherwise they should be devoted to medicine, which is a calling, not just a job.

Yes, I understand the purpose, but the point is the same. Residency is no longer about sleeping at the hospital. And one can still be devoted to their job without making it their single focus. Going through med school and residency with no other focus in your life makes for some very lonely, unhappy attendings, which is why most residents have something else in their life they're also devoted to.

 

[22031 Alum]

The purpose of the duty hour restrictions are patient safety, not work-life balance, etc. Residents should make sure, whenever possible, to get 7-8.5 hours of sleep per night, but otherwise they should be devoted to medicine, which is a calling, not just a job.

This may just be semantics, but I'm not sure I'm with you there. Medicine is a job that requires more from you than a lot of other jobs (but not all!). But constantly repeating that "calling, not a job" line is how we end up with bitter, disillusioned and cynical med students, residents, fellows, attendings- whatever level of training people are at when they realize "Oh, this isn't some magical thing I'm doing, it's work." AKA a job.

 

[michaelrack]

But constantly repeating that "calling, not a job" line is how we end up with bitter, disillusioned and cynical med students, residents, fellows, attendings.

Personally, I am just disillusioned and cynical, but not bitter.

 

[Gastrapathy]

It's better to have kids in residency than waiting. You aren't paying the overhead, you are younger and you are leaving that job soon no matter what so that you don't have to keep working with the people who won't forgive the inconvenience.

 

[dpmd]

Actually, I think the fact that she's ob/gyn makes her feelings on the subject less surprising. At my hospital I clearly remember the ob residents were still expected (by their peers mostly) to come and do maternity rounds and/or clinic even if they were febrile, actively vomiting, or having explosive diarrhea. (Again, I'm not in a surgical specialty, but this does seem a little excessive to me

There was a obgyn resident where I did med school who worked up to her delivery (and supposedly took floor calls from her room). Not sure what time she took off after.

 

[22031 Alum]

There was a obgyn resident where I did med school who worked up to her delivery (and supposedly took floor calls from her room). Not sure what time she took off after.

Working up to delivery is pretty common, if you're able. Almost universally, people want to maximize their time off after the baby comes.