Let's pretend we're living in a world where I was NK'd last night and flipped village. Or better yet, I'm IC and confirmed town. All I've seen so far is you tunneling me and saying you need more info on other people. Other than me, what's your PoE?I'm not entirely sure I remembered that about you, but okay
I wasn't being shady, I think you're a wolf, I was explaining to Clem what I thought your motive would be under those circumstances. It's not really shade when I'm being direct about my read on you?
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Matrix - Game Thread
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FWIW, I'm assuming this because it's Champs practice, and that's what's typical there and in their ruleset (under Season 11 Qualifiers Setup). Seems that tracking and motion detecting are the only abilities with direct feedback.This is true. Side note, why are we assuming actions are soft? Certainly could be but if it's not stated in the rules I won't assume it.
Marmot wooooooo
Meh, young Stagg was a wild and crazy wolf that ruined villages. Old Stagg doesn't have time for that crap and even if I did the vets all know that a vote for Stagg isn't wrong even late game. I'm not as good as I was, but I've still only ever lost one online game as a wolf (when not subbed out D1), and I don't count it as a loss since the living wolf accidentally started their wolf brag a cycle early when living village all saw them as hard-cleared (and it was a 3P win anyway, Dina forever wins that game).(Jk it makes sense, I was young and arrogant too)
WildZoo
Noble Dubz Dictator, Unyeetable Phasing Wolf
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
HI MARMOT
They’re soft in the MU champ game. I got confused last year because of it.The imo the odds of a claim
I'll happily switch to you if I feel like Moon's claim gains legitimacy. I don't think I read you well but you're setting off all kinds of flags for me this game.
This is shady shade-throwing shadeballz af. You know I get lost in mechanics and like solving puzzle games and I wouldn't be trying to fish for this info.
This is true. Side note, why are we assuming actions are soft? Certainly could be but if it's not stated in the rules I won't assume it.
Not yet, but there are definitely solid inferences that can be made. Ie, we know 2/3 mafia roles (blocker and goon). We know that if there's a mafia watcher then they know 100% there's a doctor, so we're less likely playing column A or row 2. We also know that at this point mafia can't know 100% that there isn't a town doctor unless actions are loud and they have info from someone acting on them. We also know the only setups without a town doctor are Columns B and C or rows 3 or 4. So more than likely there is an odd night doctor.
If Moon is a wolf going down and pack wants to eliminate a PR, doctor is their best bet at a counter claim. If no one counterclaims, then Moon can potentially coast. If someone does, they lose a wolf (possibly goon) but also take down a PR. If wolves are trying to survive with an untaken PR, then doctor claim probably wasn't a great choice. Other way to look at it though is that town doc flip also keeps the wolf PRs more hidden, as it has the most combinations for game set up. So in wolfy Moon world I think it just depends on how worried they would be that she would be going down. If they really thought she was screwed then claiming doc gives the best chance of finding a PR while also hiding their roles. However, it's also the PR claim at greatest risk of getting counterclaimed as there's a 60% chance of town doctor being present in the game while every other role only has a 40% chance independently.
Village will never know the set up based on the mafia, they don’t flip with roles. Just an fyi
@marmot` HI
ARE YOU THE DOCTOR
ARE YOU THE DOCTOR
Alright, I caught up, but I was hoping to get the spreadsheet done and posted, and I'm not quite there yet. (I should really figure out how Nate automates things, I'm silly enough to do it all manually.) Hopefully I'll have more time for that tonight/early tomorrow.
In the meantime, this is where I'm at:
Zenge
Achro
samac & Dubz
Clem J
PSV
Santy
mayo/marmot
genny
Stagg737
Gikkle
Shinichi
Sorry to drop a list and run, but I'll answer any questions when I can.
In the meantime, this is where I'm at:
Zenge
Achro
samac & Dubz
Clem J
PSV
Santy
mayo/marmot
genny
Stagg737
Gikkle
Shinichi
Sorry to drop a list and run, but I'll answer any questions when I can.
WildZoo
Noble Dubz Dictator, Unyeetable Phasing Wolf
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Achro, Clem, PSV, Shinichi, mayo --> marmotLet's pretend we're living in a world where I was NK'd last night and flipped village. Or better yet, I'm IC and confirmed town. All I've seen so far is you tunneling me and saying you need more info on other people. Other than me, what's your PoE?
Achromatic
Full Member
Good morning everyone. At least, for me lol.
I see Moon is posting this is good.
I see Moon is posting this is good.
So you dont cc the odd night doctor claim of moon?Hi I am marmot and most definitely am not a doctor.
I have beer plans this evening but I'll come in later and vote for a wolf. Wish me luck!!
Just making sure you're aware of what the question was.
And good luck go get drunk and have fun
@Stagg737 still would like clarity what this post is quoting was supposed to say plsI think something got mangled here lol
Achromatic
Full Member
wtf they killed my boy space.
Monsters.
Monsters.
Le gaspAchro, Clem, PSV, Shinichi, mayo --> marmot
Achromatic
Full Member
Anyway it's day 2 and now I am sad, so its time to eat someone
@WildZoo why am I like, your second most suspicious person?
@WildZoo why am I like, your second most suspicious person?
Achromatic
Full Member
@Achromatic current thoughts on moon?
Claiming doctor day 1 when they did and also calling me very towny doesn't feel like an evil scum plot to me. I'd expect a scum moon to cry about me suspecting them and to murder me with the doctor mandate
does tell me scum is kinda silly if moon is in fact town tho
Hi I am marmot and most definitely am not a doctor.
I have beer plans this evening but I'll come in later and vote for a wolf. Wish me luck!!
Yes I guess I didn’t make that clear lolSo you dont cc the odd night doctor claim of moon?
Just making sure you're aware of what the question was.
And good luck go get drunk and have fun
Moon claimed doc. Mayo wasn’t around. Just wanted to make sure we weren’t letting her coast
Achromatic
Full Member
If however we want to assume moon wolf for a moment, the problem I have is you thought we were partnered which is not correct so if you have any other good partner ideas for moon I'd like to hear them.
Achromatic
Full Member
@Clem JI mean it's just pure math right
And I haven't really read enough to make an informed decision based on thread context or whatever, so math is my friend
put down the math please
No@Clem J
put down the math please
Achromatic
Full Member
I think Santy (?) mentioned this already but in case it wasn't stated as a question, I do want to know what you meant by this...like how was moon playing like a scared kitten?
Sure.
So the last time I played with Moon they were pretty inquisitive and prodding in how they talked with people, from memory. Here I felt like they were just like leaving me alone a lot and not really curious about my motives or anything.
i don't like it when people aren't curious about me by nature, as I am a bit of an infamously strong wolf for those who have seen my wolf game. You don't exactly beat me by playing passive as moon did.
Achromatic
Full Member
okay then I will just never listen to you lol.
If you can't show your work then uh, well par for the course from you tbh
Achromatic
Full Member
It just occurs to me that put down has two different meanings.
I didn't mean stop using, I meant write it out.
I didn't mean stop using, I meant write it out.
1, you already don't listen to me, this is new how? 2, I already did it, keep readingokay then I will just never listen to you lol.
If you can't show your work then uh, well par for the course from you tbh
I knew what you meantIt just occurs to me that put down has two different meanings.
I didn't mean stop using, I meant write it out.
Achromatic
Full Member
I listen to everyone, I just sometimes end up disagreeing smh
Achromatic
Full Member
I did already explain btwI mean I'm familiar with the concept of PRs acting sketchy and that getting misread as scuminess but that description just didn't feel like it fit with moon's play
I also don't think Achro answered my question about the "classically wolfy" comment on Zenge but I also said I would find it if they'd said already and then I had to skim again so that might be my fault
I think this is acceptable fishing given thread state/claims.@marmot` HI
ARE YOU THE DOCTOR
This is not acceptable fishing and I feel the need to call this out. This is not helping you move out of my scum reads...If someone is a motion detector I’d like to know what you learned. It’s worth the share I think.
I vibe with a lot of Santy's argument. I had Achro in the same pile as PSV and Shinichi (ie enough info to be good, but not sure where I stand) but Santy gave a solid argument. Other things were that I wasn't a fan of the sudden backing off of Zenge, then voting for Moon after the weird interaction between them, then unvoting Moon and almost immediately following me onto MKG. I just don't like the progression of their actions yesterday. Plus, Achro flip would give a good amount of info I think. Then again so could Shini, but at this point I think Santy's argument for Achro is better than Zenge's for Shini and for now I've got Santy higher on my village list than Zenge.Can you clarify on achro again? I can’t remember
This is a valid point that I missed, not sure it affects my view too much atm though.Village will never know the set up based on the mafia, they don’t flip with roles. Just an fyi
Day 2 Yeet Tally
Shini (2) - Zenge 9, moon 20
Clem () -
Achro (1) - Santy 51
Stagg (2) - Dubz 34, samac 34
moon (2) - Stagg 22, Clem 36
7/13
yeet close in ~26.5 hours
Shini (2) - Zenge 9, moon 20
Clem () -
Achro (1) - Santy 51
Stagg (2) - Dubz 34, samac 34
moon (2) - Stagg 22, Clem 36
7/13
yeet close in ~26.5 hours
Achromatic
Full Member
oh is santy trying to kill me?
guess santy is wolfing then that's sad
guess santy is wolfing then that's sad
Achromatic
Full Member
vote: Achromatic
my legacy is to murder the **** out of santy
reading up on why space might have been n1'd now
my legacy is to murder the **** out of santy
reading up on why space might have been n1'd now
Clem (soon to be 37)Day 2 Yeet Tally
Shini (2) - Zenge 9, moon 20
Clem () -
Achro (1) - Santy 51
Stagg (2) - Dubz 34, samac 34
moon (2) - Stagg 22, Clem 36
7/13
yeet close in ~26.5 hours
I think we're gonna do it fam
@Stagg737 still would like clarity what this post is quoting was supposed to say pls
I was going to say the odds of a claim being a wolf claim are actually >50% because they'd have more knowledge about potential game set up based on knowing all their roles, but that's bad math and I forgot my brain wandered to other quotes.The imo the odds of a claim
Murder you with the doctor mandate how?Claiming doctor day 1 when they did and also calling me very towny doesn't feel like an evil scum plot to me. I'd expect a scum moon to cry about me suspecting them and to murder me with the doctor mandate
does tell me scum is kinda silly if moon is in fact town tho
If however we want to assume moon wolf for a moment, the problem I have is you thought we were partnered which is not correct so if you have any other good partner ideas for moon I'd like to hear them.
Im not actively looking for partners because we dont have the flip yet. Like, I dont think they are unaligned with most of the players here
Achromatic
Full Member
Hrm. I am thinking the scum may have believed space was softing pr when they discussed not believing pr claims readily when moon claimed doctor. If not then my zenge read may be bogus as he died suspecting him.
Sure.
So the last time I played with Moon they were pretty inquisitive and prodding in how they talked with people, from memory. Here I felt like they were just like leaving me alone a lot and not really curious about my motives or anything.
i don't like it when people aren't curious about me by nature, as I am a bit of an infamously strong wolf for those who have seen my wolf game. You don't exactly beat me by playing passive as moon did.
And how do you feel about being the second most confident townread of moon?
To me it seems like the doctor claim made magically all your Paranoia disappear now?
Achromatic
Full Member
But given setup I am ~guessing~ mafia got greedy, roleblocked the doctor (I think doctor is odd nights from memory, I could look but meh) and thought this was maybe hinting pr and missed
space was also obv town
so probably says little about zenge
space was also obv town
so probably says little about zenge
Wat? I'm confused about the self vote, is there some non-SDN meaning behind a self-vote?vote: Achromatic
my legacy is to murder the **** out of santy
reading up on why space might have been n1'd now
You also realize quite a few people have you in their wolf-leans list, right?
How so? I'm trying to figure you out and using my vote for that.oh is santy trying to kill me?
guess santy is wolfing then that's sad
F.e. Im a bit wierded out that you enter into the thread with no comment about psv, which at EoD entered into thread and was trying to CFD you
Achromatic
Full Member
It's not magic, it's basic game solving.And how do you feel about being the second most confident townread of moon?
To me it seems like the doctor claim made magically all your Paranoia disappear now?
Most day 1 claims come from town (I dont know clem's math, I'll look at it when i see it) and killing protection is very low ev in my experience. The game should be solvable from the binary of moon is either scum or town and looking at the game through that lens
vote: Achromatic
my legacy is to murder the **** out of santy
reading up on why space might have been n1'd now
This will not help me with seeing you as town tbqh
Achromatic
Full Member
Wat? I'm confused about the self vote, is there some non-SDN meaning behind a self-vote?
You also realize quite a few people have you in their wolf-leans list, right?
Sure, so go ahead and kill me for the info
and then murder santy in particular.
Achromatic
Full Member
yeah not asking you to lolThis will not help me with seeing you as town tbqh
Achromatic
Full Member
Also I havent seen any PSV posts today, I have no reason to comment on them yet.
Mafia will always fakeclaim when they are on moon's position. The setup allows for mafia to do it and either force a counterclaim, or if that role isnt on the setup, no town would be able to tell at first. So its always optimal to claim if you are mafia, or truly the PRIt's not magic, it's basic game solving.
Most day 1 claims come from town (I dont know clem's math, I'll look at it when i see it) and killing protection is very low ev in my experience. The game should be solvable from the binary of moon is either scum or town and looking at the game through that lens
But you didnt really reply to the post they made EoD yesterdayAlso I havent seen any PSV posts today, I have no reason to comment on them yet.
