Maximum price for a house for a doc?

[goldsummer]

When did you buy it? 25+ yrs ago...

lol! right

I got it in Spring of this year. Was a relative's house and they moved, they gave it to me for a deal. It needs some work, but still a good deal. It was actually worth about 290k. Currently about 302k if zillow is accurate

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[Splenda88]

lol! right

I got it in Spring of this year. Was a relative's house and they moved, they gave it to me for a deal. It needs some work, but still a good deal. It was actually worth about 290k. Currently about 302k if zillow is accurate

You beat me. I got mine last year for 280k in a LCOL area.... 4.5% interest rate.

I don't even think about mortgage payment like most people since it's a negligible part of my yearly gross income (~4.5%).

It's a small house of ~2000 living space (4BR/2BA) + 2-car garage by American standards, but it's plenty of space for a family of 4. Anyway, I am not obsessed with big house like most Americans.

 

[goldsummer]

You beat me. I got mine last year for 280k in a LCOL area.... 4.5% interest rate.

I don't even think about mortgage payment like most people since it's a negligible part of my yearly gross income (~4.5%) . It was ~ $1700 last year and the bank re-adjusted my escrow and now it's < $1600.

It's a small house of ~2000 living space (4BR/2BA) + 2-car garage, but it's plenty of space for a family of 4. Anyway, I am not obsessed with big house like most Americans.

Thats a good deal too! Very nice job. We think alike

 

[FlowRate]

You beat me. I got mine last year for 280k in a LCOL area.... 4.5% interest rate.

I don't even think about mortgage payment like most people since it's a negligible part of my yearly gross income (~4.5%).

It's a small house of ~2000 living space (4BR/2BA) + 2-car garage by American standards, but it's plenty of space for a family of 4. Anyway, I am not obsessed with big house like most Americans.

"Small." Bigger than 30% of the houses I'm looking at in the $600-800k range here...

 

[Splenda88]

"Small." Bigger than 30% of the houses I'm looking at in the $600-800k range here...

Are you in NY or California?

 

[finalpsychyear]

You beat me. I got mine last year for 280k in a LCOL area.... 4.5% interest rate.

I don't even think about mortgage payment like most people since it's a negligible part of my yearly gross income (~4.5%).

It's a small house of ~2000 living space (4BR/2BA) + 2-car garage by American standards, but it's plenty of space for a family of 4. Anyway, I am not obsessed with big house like most Americans.

Renting a 3300 sq ft house but only 3 bedrooms. Been hosting like a madman since lots of family around and lots of friends out of state fly in with their family and kids. Already can't fit everyone for xmas due to lack of rooms so i know that wasn't ideal and wife wants us to give up our master king...

Depends on the person's situation, how often they host friends and family, work from home etc. I am so glad I got the 3300 sq ft place since i work 40 of my 55-60 from home it feels so good to have space coming from a 1400 sq ft condo. I don't have a finished basement. I am even more confident that a 4000 sq ft plus a finished basement is more ideal for our situation maybe in 1-2 years.

Also, the hotel room test is a good indicator if your space craver.I was in manhattan for the us open recently and i hated the 220sq foot room so immediately upgraded to the 500 sq foot room obviously paying way way more but worth every penny since i dont think it's cool seeing my spouse from the toilet. Some people could care less but that is not me at all. It actually changes my experience to have the extra room.

 

[gutonc]

Are you in NY or California?

Virtually all urban/suburban areas in the Western US are priced like this right now. Can you find cheaper places? Sure. Would you want to live in those houses/neighborhoods? I wouldn't.

Just for fun, I did a quick Zillow search filtered only for 3+BR/2+BA houses in the following cities:
Seattle, WA
Tacoma, WA
Spokane, WA
Boise, ID
Coeur d'Alene, ID
Portland, OR
Eugene, OR
Medford, OR
Reno, NV
Las Vegas, NV
SLC, UT
Ogden, UT
Denver, CO
Boulder, CO
Colorado Springs, CO
Chandler, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Tucson, AZ
Albuquerque, NM
Taos, NM
(I didn't even bother with anything in CA)

Of the first 10 houses that Zillow listed for me to see (no neighborhood filtering and I have no personal knowledge of good/bad neighborhoods in most of those places), only Ogden, Tucson and Albuquerque showed me >4 homes/10 listing for <$500K. Most of them listed no homes <$500K in the first 10 listings.

This is a wildly unscientific approach to be sure, but certainly a reasonable estimate. I did check median home prices for the cities in WA, OR and ID above and they range from ~350-800K with what I can only assume are going to be comically wide confidence intervals.

 

[Splenda88]

Virtually all urban/suburban areas in the Western US are priced like this right now. Can you find cheaper places? Sure. Would you want to live in those houses/neighborhoods? I wouldn't.

Just for fun, I did a quick Zillow search filtered only for 3+BR/2+BA houses in the following cities:
Seattle, WA
Tacoma, WA
Spokane, WA
Boise, ID
Coeur d'Alene, ID
Portland, OR
Eugene, OR
Medford, OR
Reno, NV
Las Vegas, NV
SLC, UT
Ogden, UT
Denver, CO
Boulder, CO
Colorado Springs, CO
Chandler, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Tucson, AZ
Albuquerque, NM
Taos, NM
(I didn't even bother with anything in CA)

Of the first 10 houses that Zillow listed for me to see (no neighborhood filtering and I have no personal knowledge of good/bad neighborhoods in most of those places), only Ogden, Tucson and Albuquerque showed me >4 homes/10 listing for <$500K. Most of them listed no homes <$500K in the first 10 listings.

This is a wildly unscientific approach to be sure, but certainly a reasonable estimate. I did check median home prices for the cities in WA, OR and ID above and they range from ~350-800K with what I can only assume are going to be comically wide confidence intervals.

This is discouraging. With interest rate around 7.5% on a 30-yr loan, even the middle class (not the lower middle class) would have a hard time buying anything that cost 500k, which by your research is hard to find.

Mortgage on 500k home even with 20% down payment would be ~4k/month. In order not to be house poor, a family of 4 should make ~170k/yr... that is insane.

 

[Splenda88]

Renting a 3300 sq ft house but only 3 bedrooms. Been hosting like a madman since lots of family around and lots of friends out of state fly in with their family and kids. Already can't fit everyone for xmas due to lack of rooms so i know that wasn't ideal and wife wants us to give up our master king...

Depends on the person's situation, how often they host friends and family, work from home etc. I am so glad I got the 3300 sq ft place since i work 40 of my 55-60 from home it feels so good to have space coming from a 1400 sq ft condo. I don't have a finished basement. I am even more confident that a 4000 sq ft plus a finished basement is more ideal for our situation maybe in 1-2 years.

Also, the hotel room test is a good indicator if your space craver.I was in manhattan for the us open recently and i hated the 220sq foot room so immediately upgraded to the 500 sq foot room obviously paying way way more but worth every penny since i dont think it's cool seeing my spouse from the toilet. Some people could care less but that is not me at all. It actually changes my experience to have the extra room.

That is a lot of house. How big is your family?

 

[gutonc]

This is discouraging. With interest rate around 7.5% on a 30-yr loan, even the middle class (not the lower middle class) would have a hard time buying anything that cost 500k, which by your research is hard to find.

It's definitely not an easy thing to find in a lot of places in the West.

Mortgage on 500k home even with 20% down payment would be ~4k/month. In order not to be house poor, a family of 4 should make ~170k/yr... that is insane.

I don't think anyone, certainly not me, would argue with you on this point.

 

[worthless]

For me, home location/style >>> size. But they almost always go together. The nicer areas where I’m at also tend to have bigger houses. I could do with much smaller but the location can’t be beat.

 

[gutonc]

For me, home location/style >>> size. But they almost always go together. The nicer areas where I’m at also tend to have bigger houses. I could do with much smaller but the location can’t be beat.

I hate this aspect of real estate. We're looking in the town where I recently started a new job which is fortunately commutable from where I am now. All of the places where we love the location and style of the home are typically 2-3X bigger than we want. If we can swing it, we'll buy property for the location and build the 1800SF house we actually want instead of the 5000SF monstrosity a builder would put there.

 

[Splenda88]

I hate this aspect of real estate. We're looking in the town where I recently started a new job which is fortunately commutable from where I am now. All of the places where we love the location and style of the home are typically 2-3X bigger than we want. If we can swing it, we'll buy property for the location and build the 1800SF house we actually want instead of the 5000SF monstrosity a builder would put there.

Why not a bigger place? just curious. I was looking at home size trend in the US and in 1960-70s, median square footage was ~1500 sqft and now it 2000+ sqft... Why bigger homes when family size is getting smaller? It's fascinating IMO.

 

[gutonc]

Why not a bigger place? just curious. I was looking at home size trend in the US and in 1960-70s, median square footage was ~1500 sqft and now it 2000+ sqft... Why bigger homes when family size is getting smaller? It's fascinating IMO.

Because it's just 2 of us and some dogs. More house is just more s*** to clean and collect crap.

 

[RangerBob]

Because it's just 2 of us and some dogs. More house is just more s*** to clean and collect crap.

I’ll echo this as well. It’s hard enough for us to keep our 1600sq ft home clean.

More house means more stuff (furniture, decorations, blinds, etc) that you have to buy to fill it up, more heating/cooling costs. At a certain point you need to hire people to keep it clean/maintain the yard. Not to mention big homes get lonely.

How much space does a human really need?

 

[finalpsychyear]

I’ll echo this as well. It’s hard enough for us to keep our 1600sq ft home clean.

More house means more stuff (furniture, decorations, blinds, etc) that you have to buy to fill it up, more heating/cooling costs. At a certain point you need to hire people to keep it clean/maintain the yard. Not to mention big homes get lonely.

How much space does a human really need?

This will differ for the person. If i didn't work more than 50% from home i'd probably need or be ok with half the space. In my area 4000 sq feet can be attained for probably 700-1m range depending the older home you get and lower ranked school systems you are willing to deal with.

Someone on the coasts of the country or HCOL would have to pay this amount for half or less of that space. It does come down to economics and maintenance costs to some degree. My lawncare is 80/mo and electric is 100 more going from 1400 to 3300 recently.

Some people also may be minimalists or ok with 100 sq foot hotel rooms if its 100/night vs 500 sq feet for 300/night in the same hotel. Lucky if you are the 100 sq ft hotel people who feel 1500 sq ft home is more than enough living in a LCOL area you are going to reach FIRE numbers sooner than others.

I wear my shoes till there are holes in it just like my boxers and socks. Drive a beater when it actually starts and runs. But space is the top of my list and gives me a dopamine hit like those who buy expensive watches, diamonds, or purses so i guess that is my thing.

 

[RangerBob]

This will differ for the person. If i didn't work more than 50% from home i'd probably need or be ok with half the space. In my area 4000 sq feet can be attained for probably 700-1m range depending the older home you get and lower ranked school systems you are willing to deal with.

Someone on the coasts of the country or HCOL would have to pay this amount for half or less of that space. It does come down to economics and maintenance costs to some degree. My lawncare is 80/mo and electric is 100 more going from 1400 to 3300 recently.

Some people also may be minimalists or ok with 100 sq foot hotel rooms if its 100/night vs 500 sq feet for 300/night in the same hotel. Lucky if you are the 100 sq ft hotel people who feel 1500 sq ft home is more than enough living in a LCOL area you are going to reach FIRE numbers sooner than others.

I wear my shoes till there are holes in it just like my boxers and socks. Drive a beater when it actually starts and runs. But space is the top of my list and gives me a dopamine hit like those who buy expensive watches, diamonds, or purses so i guess that is my thing.

By all means-whatever makes you happy. Just as I would also question an expensive watch purchase, I’m sure people out there will question me for spending that for a guitar or for new plants/bricks/whatever to put in my (very small!) yard.

The point of money is to buy comfort and happiness (after needs are met), as much as money can do such a thing. Ideally some of that is spent on bringing comfort/happiness to others.

I never fault anyone for spending their money the way they want, but people’s preferences can and do baffle me at times, like the watch purchase or lifting up a perfectly engineered pickup truck. But I’m happy if those decisions are bringing joy to the person who made them.

 

[Splenda88]

I’ll echo this as well. It’s hard enough for us to keep our 1600sq ft home clean.

More house means more stuff (furniture, decorations, blinds, etc) that you have to buy to fill it up, more heating/cooling costs. At a certain point you need to hire people to keep it clean/maintain the yard. Not to mention big homes get lonely.

How much space does a human really need?


By all means-whatever makes you happy. Just as I would also question an expensive watch purchase, I’m sure people out there will question me for spending that for a guitar or for new plants/bricks/whatever to put in my (very small!) yard.

The point of money is to buy comfort and happiness (after needs are met), as much as money can do such a thing. Ideally some of that is spent on bringing comfort/happiness to others.

I never fault anyone for spending their money the way they want, but people’s preferences can and do baffle me at times, like the watch purchase or lifting up a perfectly engineered pickup truck. But I’m happy if those decisions are bringing joy to the person who made them.

I don't know man. I lived in 1600 sqft + 2-car garage for 1 yr and I have been living in ~2000 sqft + 2-car garage for over a year now and I still have not noticed improvement in QOL. However, my QOL will decrease tremendously if you take away that 2-car garage.

It's amazing to me that people are ok to spend double (from 2000 sqft to 3000 sqft) for marginal improvement in QOL. If you are making 2+ mil/year, that's a different story IMO.

 

[Raryn]

Virtually all urban/suburban areas in the Western US are priced like this right now. Can you find cheaper places? Sure. Would you want to live in those houses/neighborhoods? I wouldn't.

Just for fun, I did a quick Zillow search filtered only for 3+BR/2+BA houses in the following cities:
Seattle, WA
Tacoma, WA
Spokane, WA
Boise, ID
Coeur d'Alene, ID
Portland, OR
Eugene, OR
Medford, OR
Reno, NV
Las Vegas, NV
SLC, UT
Ogden, UT
Denver, CO
Boulder, CO
Colorado Springs, CO
Chandler, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Tucson, AZ
Albuquerque, NM
Taos, NM
(I didn't even bother with anything in CA)

Of the first 10 houses that Zillow listed for me to see (no neighborhood filtering and I have no personal knowledge of good/bad neighborhoods in most of those places), only Ogden, Tucson and Albuquerque showed me >4 homes/10 listing for <$500K. Most of them listed no homes <$500K in the first 10 listings.

This is a wildly unscientific approach to be sure, but certainly a reasonable estimate. I did check median home prices for the cities in WA, OR and ID above and they range from ~350-800K with what I can only assume are going to be comically wide confidence intervals.

California has some cheaper houses, just not in the cities you might like.

For example, searching Fresno, CA 3+/2+, the top 10 results have 8/10 under $500k, and 6/10 under $350k. Mind you, most of those aren't in the best neighborhood or particularly large - but you can live there cheaply if you want.

If I had to guess based on prior trends, Sacramento might be marginally more expensive, but Bakersfield/Stockton/Modesto/etc (basically the rest of the Central Valley) would probably be even cheaper. It's only when you go South of Bakersfield, to the Bay Area, or the Central coast that you get into absurdities.

Of course, if I were to move out there I'd want 4+/3+,probably closer to 3000 sq ft rather than 2000 sq ft, and in a better neighborhood - which would put me at probably $850k+ - but it would still be a lot cheaper than most other towns.

 

[Raryn]

I don't know man. I lived in 1600 sqft + 2-car garage for 1 yr and I have been living in ~2000 sqft + 2-car garage for over a year now and I still have not noticed improvement in QOL. However, my QOL will decrease tremendously if you take away that 2-car garage.

It's amazing to me that people are ok to spend double (from 2000 sqft to 3000 sqft) for marginal improvement in QOL. If you are making 2+ mil/year, that's a different story IMO.

I think it truly depends on how big your family hs and how often you visit them.

If I was single, 1000 sq feet is huge. OTOH, with a couple kids and in-laws that like to visit, that would be torture.

 

[Splenda88]

I think it truly depends on how big your family hs and how often you visit them.

If I was single, 1000 sq feet is huge. OTOH, with a couple kids and in-laws that like to visit, that would be torture.

We are a family of 4 and our 4BR/2BA and 2 car garage ~2000 sqft living space is big enough. It would still be ok even if we had guess visiting from time to time.

 

[dpmd]

California has some cheaper houses, just not in the cities you might like.

For example, searching Fresno, CA 3+/2+, the top 10 results have 8/10 under $500k, and 6/10 under $350k. Mind you, most of those aren't in the best neighborhood or particularly large - but you can live there cheaply if you want.

If I had to guess based on prior trends, Sacramento might be marginally more expensive, but Bakersfield/Stockton/Modesto/etc (basically the rest of the Central Valley) would probably be even cheaper. It's only when you go South of Bakersfield, to the Bay Area, or the Central coast that you get into absurdities.

Of course, if I were to move out there I'd want 4+/3+,probably closer to 3000 sq ft rather than 2000 sq ft, and in a better neighborhood - which would put me at probably $850k+ - but it would still be a lot cheaper than most other towns.

Can confirm affordable houses in nice neighborhoods available in Bakersfield. A saw a couple of 3000 sq ft 4/3 for 6-700k but they are a little more south than I would want to be for work (neighborhood is fine, just i like my max 20 minute door to door commute) but if you are ok with 2500 their are more and less expensive options. Prices are up from a few years ago though. I got 4/3 2675 sq ft with a pool for 462k in 2016 and my parents got a smaller 4/2 1697 sq ft in 2017 for 242k both in good neighborhoods. I like living here because no traffic, good variety of ethnic restaurants with good food, low grocery prices, and ability to park places when you go out.

 

[dpmd]

I don't know man. I lived in 1600 sqft + 2-car garage for 1 yr and I have been living in ~2000 sqft + 2-car garage for over a year now and I still have not noticed improvement in QOL. However, my QOL will decrease tremendously if you take away that 2-car garage.

It's amazing to me that people are ok to spend double (from 2000 sqft to 3000 sqft) for marginal improvement in QOL. If you are making 2+ mil/year, that's a different story IMO.

That isn't much of a jump so I am not surprised you didn't notice a difference. I went from 1900 to 2600 but more importantly went from 3 bedrooms to 4, 2 bathrooms to 3, and 2 car garage (but in practice not really big enough to fit 2) to 3 (with room to spare for storage plus an rv parking space that the hoa doesn't let me put an actual rv in but makes a great place for doing projects) plus a pool and the improvement in QOL is dramatic. Totally worth the just over double it cost me. The extra bedroom means I have an office separate from a guest room (and I have frequent visitors plus I sleep there sometimes when husband snores too much) the extra bathroom means the three people living there can all void at the same time if needed. And means my master bath never really needs to be used by guests. The garage is important because it is three adults that live here so three cars. And the pool is critical for when it is hot. I can keep the AC at a higher number during the day and just jump in the pool to cool off intermittently. And we frequently have family over and there is room for the 10 people who come over regularly (my uncle and his family moved to town after my parents did) as well as the up to 50 I have had over for special occasions (bigger than typical backyard which helps with entertaining as well). It helps that double put me at a mortgage just a touch over our yearly income so the splurge was an affordable one.

 

[Splenda88]

That isn't much of a jump so I am not surprised you didn't notice a difference. I went from 1900 to 2600 but more importantly went from 3 bedrooms to 4, 2 bathrooms to 3, and 2 car garage (but in practice not really big enough to fit 2) to 3 (with room to spare for storage plus an rv parking space that the hoa doesn't let me put an actual rv in but makes a great place for doing projects) plus a pool and the improvement in QOL is dramatic. Totally worth the just over double it cost me. The extra bedroom means I have an office separate from a guest room (and I have frequent visitors plus I sleep there sometimes when husband snores too much) the extra bathroom means the three people living there can all void at the same time if needed. And means my master bath never really needs to be used by guests. The garage is important because it is three adults that live here so three cars. And the pool is critical for when it is hot. I can keep the AC at a higher number during the day and just jump in the pool to cool off intermittently. And we frequently have family over and there is room for the 10 people who come over regularly (my uncle and his family moved to town after my parents did) as well as the up to 50 I have had over for special occasions (bigger than typical backyard which helps with entertaining as well). It helps that double put me at a mortgage just a touch over our yearly income so the splurge was an affordable one.

From my ~1100 sqft apartment in residency to the 1600 sqft living space + 2 car garage when I became an attending was a big improvement in QOL.

The 2-car garage was a game changer IMO. It would be hard for to live full time in a house that does not have at least 2-car garage.

 

[NITRAS]

My biggest pain issue with my house is the lack of a 3 car garage. Kinda toying with idea of insulating and cooling a shed. . . . But that is expensive.

 

[finalpsychyear]

My biggest pain issue with my house is the lack of a 3 car garage. Kinda toying with idea of insulating and cooling a shed. . . . But that is expensive.

Yeah, there is no question a 3 car garage is a non negotiable for me. I went from no garage, 1,2 and now luckily 3 car garage. Just damn nice to have space for a mower, snow blower etc. I think side load is also ideal. Maybe next year i'll join the home owner list and have it.