Mayo AZ vs. UTSW

[Smash Williams]

I've been lucky enough to have a tremendously successful cycle, and I think I've come down to my final two schools (a couple WLs or likely WLs notwithstanding). They are about as different as two possible schools can be, which is making this decision really hard. I'm pretty sure I'm not interested in the prestigious specialties, if that matters, and I am much more interested in clinical research opposed to basic science.

Mayo-AZ
Pros

• Somewhat cheaper COA thanks to better financial aid (~$30K over the four years)
• Seems to put a huge emphasis on student well-being, which is important to me; as a new class, I also think this may lead to more personalized attention/support from the faculty
• Extremely personalizable curriculum with the selective model
• Really embraces a collaborative, non-competitive model, up to and including no AOA - I've got no interest in scrounging for grades or top of the class at this point, and I'm not interested in a career path that needs it
• Great research opportunities in the area I'm interested in
• Good clinical training sites with well established student roles and residencies

Cons

• Newness factor - I'm less put off by this than some, but for the first two years at least it is something I am slightly wary of; particualrly, I would love to have the opportunity for in-person support from upperclassmen, and this isn't available here
• Class size of 50 is maybe a little too small? I like the idea of knowing everyone, but it also could lead to more drama
• Clinical training sites are really spread out, and it seems like a lot of time could be spent wasted driving
• Location concerns - Higher cost of living, and the summer weather frightens me. Texas is warm, but not like that. Also, scorpions sound frightening.
• ADDED: More-or-less mandatory attendance and business dress at more times than other places.

UT-Southwestern
Pros

• Love the city. If I could live anywhere, it would be in the DFW area (I have high life goals, clearly)
• Well established regional and national reputation
• Campus is super convenient to get around, and since I'm not a huge fan of driving, having everything right there would be realyl useful
• 2.5 years of clinical training as opposed to the more traditional 2 years at Mayo means more time to explore clinical electives
• Great clinical affiliates with sparkling new facilities; I definitely think there's something important to be said for a facility like the new Parkland
• Optional lecture attendance, which is a huge plus here. I don't mind going to class - that's my style in undergrad, but it would be nice to sleep in and do it on my own schedule

Cons

• While the reputation is getting better, still maintains a cutthroat sort of atmosphere in some ways. On my interview days, some current M1 and M3s students referred privately to the gunner-style atmosphere
• The pre-clinical training sounded like a bear, at least for the first six months. A quote from the revisit: "When you get your white coat (in October), you'll feel like you have earned it."
• Similarly, it sounds like they work their clinical students very, very hard. There is something to be said for that if it helps you be a better doctor, but with the match lists for Mayo say that this isn't an important factor for residency
• Huge class size, probably too big for my tastes. They make efforts to give you a niche, but it seems like it would be easy to get lost if you need more support

Any thoughts? I have a gut instinct, but I want to make sure I'm not overlooking something obvious.

Edit: Added something I forgot about attendance.

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[deleted785918]

From what you've said, I would go with Mayo. Your Mayo cons didn't sound like deal breakers to you, and it sounds like you think your quality of life will be better there with the caring faculty and collaborative atmosphere. And it's cheaper! IMO, Mayo is the clear choice

 

[DatInterviewDood]

Both are amazing options. UTSW for the TX BBQ

 

[wagonwheel23]

Simply by reading your post (I have minimal knowledge of either school), it sounds like you would be happier at Mayo.

Good luck and congratulations!

 

[mimelim]

As you have laid out the options, Mayo AZ.

 

[Smash Williams]

Yeah, Mayo is my instinct here. I'm mostly trying to see if there's some distinction between the two that I've missed.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I would choose UTSW because Texas. For you I think the choice should Mayo from your pros and cons list. Both great options

 

[citykid92]

I personally leaned UTSW based off of your description. I personally would be turned off by Mayo being so small and new (so there's really only 50 kids... no upperclassmen at all). Might be some growing pains in the first few years that you would want to avoid. My only concern is the gunner stuff you described at UTSW. Can you go to second look to get a better vibe?

 

[thenucleusaccumbens]

I personally leaned UTSW based off of your description. I personally would be turned off by Mayo being so small and new (so there's really only 50 kids... no upperclassmen at all). Might be some growing pains in the first few years that you would want to avoid. My only concern is the gunner stuff you described at UTSW. Can you go to second look to get a better vibe?

Well, there are upperclassmen at the Rochester, MN campus who will be paired as "med sibs"/mentors to 1st years in AZ. There are also regularly students from Rochester at the AZ campus for rotations and selectives. There will also be students who will be TA's in AZ for some of the 1st year classes. So it's not like the new AZ students will have no support from upperclass students, as is the case for truly new schools, although I definitely appreciate it's not the same as having upperclassmen on campus at all times.

 

[Skittsie13]

I think the gunner atmosphere of UTSW is a misconception. I certainly didn't get that vibe from the interview or the second look. I also felt like the colleges system did a good job of breaking down the class, but obviously 50 vs nearly 5x the size is a big difference.

The "earned" it thing was I think more referring to the fact that most other med schools get their white coat during orientation. So by the time they get theirs in October, they've seen a little more. I don't think it was meant to mean they've been worked to the bone and that's why they've earned it, rather that they're a little further along in the journey than at other schools.

If you really love Dallas, UTSW will put you in the best position to end up there. If you really feel like you'd be much happier at Mayo then you should go there, but I think UTSW will give you better opportunities.

 

[thenucleusaccumbens]

I think the gunner atmosphere of UTSW is a misconception. I certainly didn't get that vibe from the interview or the second look. I also felt like the colleges system did a good job of breaking down the class, but obviously 50 vs nearly 5x the size is a big difference.

The "earned" it thing was I think more referring to the fact that most other med schools get their white coat during orientation. So by the time they get theirs in October, they've seen a little more. I don't think it was meant to mean they've been worked to the bone and that's why they've earned it, rather that they're a little further along in the journey than at other schools.

If you really love Dallas, UTSW will put you in the best position to end up there. If you really feel like you'd be much happier at Mayo then you should go there, but I think UTSW will give you better opportunities.

What opportunities do you think UTSW would provide that Mayo Clinic AZ would not? UTSW is an excellent school and if it's a better fit then certainly the OP should go there, but as a current Mayo med student I can't imagine there are any opportunities that are closed off to Mayo med students.

 

[Skittsie13]

What opportunities do you think UTSW would provide that Mayo Clinic AZ would not? UTSW is an excellent school and if it's a better fit then certainly the OP should go there, but as a current Mayo med student I can't imagine there are any opportunities that are closed off to Mayo med students.

Better opportunities to end up in Dallas is what I said. Many, many of the doctors in Dallas come from UTSW and if OP wants to eventually end up in the city the connections from UTSW are probably more worthwhile. Obviously you could match/practice in Dallas without coming from UTSW but it's easier to have those connections.

 

[thenucleusaccumbens]

Yeah, Mayo is my instinct here. I'm mostly trying to see if there's some distinction between the two that I've missed.

I just noticed in your post that you said UTSW "has 2.5 years of clinical training as opposed to the more traditional 2 years at Mayo means more time to explore clinical electives". I just wanted to address this as a current Mayo med student, we have clinical training integrated into 1st and 2nd year. 1st year we have a longitudinal course called Basic Doctoring where we learn clinical skills and practice with standardized patients. When we pass an exam at the end of the 1st year, we can then do full physicals on a real patient in clinic and staff the free clinic (under supervision of course). In 2nd year we take a longitudinal course called Advanced Doctoring where we see patients each week (inpatient and outpatient settings). Also throughout 1st and 2nd year we have selective weeks and I've gained many clinical skills during selectives. So our curriculum is definitely not traditional in that sense, there is a ton of clinical exposure.

 

[thenucleusaccumbens]

Better opportunities to end up in Dallas is what I said. Many, many of the doctors in Dallas come from UTSW and if OP wants to eventually end up in the city the connections from UTSW are probably more worthwhile. Obviously you could match/practice in Dallas without coming from UTSW but it's easier to have those connections.

ahh gotcha, makes sense! sorry I misinterpreted that comment!

 

[Smash Williams]

I think the gunner atmosphere of UTSW is a misconception. I certainly didn't get that vibe from the interview or the second look. I also felt like the colleges system did a good job of breaking down the class, but obviously 50 vs nearly 5x the size is a big difference.

The "earned" it thing was I think more referring to the fact that most other med schools get their white coat during orientation. So by the time they get theirs in October, they've seen a little more. I don't think it was meant to mean they've been worked to the bone and that's why they've earned it, rather that they're a little further along in the journey than at other schools.

If you really love Dallas, UTSW will put you in the best position to end up there. If you really feel like you'd be much happier at Mayo then you should go there, but I think UTSW will give you better opportunities.

I think the gunner thing is getting better than even just a few years ago, but I did hear it from people at both my interview and second look day, and I think as the top state school in Texas, it may just attract more of that personality style; it's also probably not a huge deal in such a huge class. The earned it comment was definitely in reference the workload (anatomy in the fall on top of the other basic science classes), and it was from an M2 that I really connected with, so it gave me pause.

I do love the college system (small niche in a large class), and I liked all the resources that were available. I would love to end up in Dallas eventually, but at the same point, I'm interested in a more niche subspecialty so I'm not sure how much control I'll have over where I'll land in residency and fellowship. That combined with the not-mandatory lectures are the biggest plusses there, and they are very hard to overlook.

But I'm feeling like I might fit just a little better at Mayo, which surprises the heck out of me from my initial impressions. And it's so hard because I legit dreamed of going to UTSW for a very long time. But after both second looks, while I still think Mayo is slightly higher risk because of the newness factor, I also think in my particular case it will probably end up being higher reward. Both are wonderful options, and I'm really torn at having to give either up.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Join me in Arizona

I can't wait! I don't anticipate the "newness" to be much of a factor. In fact, the vibe I have gotten is that Mayo is particularly invested in our class and will do everything they can to help us succeed.