- Joined
- Sep 20, 2001
- Messages
- 246
- Reaction score
- 0
What are your thoughts of this program and its competitiveness as compared with other NS programs in the country. Thanks
Mayo Clinic Neurosurgery Residency
- Thread starter JJ4
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2001
- Messages
- 213
- Reaction score
- 0
I know of someone who got a Mayo Neurosurgery spot from a school that is not usually associated with placing people into specialties. So as far as competitiveness I guess this is saying that she was a quality applicant and that med school ranking had very little to do with her match. I also know that this person did her rotations at a VERY small community hospital. Make of it what you will...
- Joined
- May 2, 2001
- Messages
- 1,619
- Reaction score
- 198
Mayo has a great reputation IF you're a patient. The knock against the place for all the surgical specialties is the lack of trauma, lack of indigent patients, & lack of autonomy. You may get to operate with some of the finest specialsts in the world, but you sacrifice the independence & confidence you get at many other places by running the show (at least sometimes).
- Joined
- Nov 21, 1998
- Messages
- 13,043
- Reaction score
- 7,579
It fares excellently, especially for MD/PhD training. You could pretty much write your career in academic medicine with the Mayo name behind you. The Mayo name is huge. One down side is the fact that at some Mayo programs residents are less involved in actual hands-on care. Again, this generalization really varies from program to program. This is because it is "the Mayo way" that patients receive the highest quality care from the most qualified provider. This contrasts wtih many county hospital or community-based residency programs where residents tend to run the show and the attending makes only a fleeting appearance on the scene. It all depends on your own individual learning style. Some people feel too overwhelmed with too much responsibility too early.
Overall, I think that Mayo is an outstanding place for medical school and post-residency fellowship training. In between, you might want to spend some time at a more "hands on" place to cement some fundamental patient care skills.
Overall, I think that Mayo is an outstanding place for medical school and post-residency fellowship training. In between, you might want to spend some time at a more "hands on" place to cement some fundamental patient care skills.
- Joined
- May 4, 2001
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
I would like to provide a dissenting opinion with respect to the NS residency program at Mayo. I completed my interviews with several NS programs just a couple of weeks ago and will be submitting my rank list within the next few days. Nonetheless, let me say that you hear rumors about all of the programs out there and, in my experience, they were all untrue.
I spent a month at the Mayo clinic on the NS service as an away elective, so I believe that I can provide you with some insight.
Rumors that are not true:
1. At Mayo, the residents do not operate because people "do not go to Mayo to be operated on by residents." Actually, I found that the residents operate more at Mayo than the other 10 NS programs at which I interviewed/visited. I found that the Junior residents were completing entire procedures with minimal intrusion.
2. The residents wear suits everyday. In NS, the residents operate so much that they do not attend clinic except for a few months during their elective year. As a result, they never wear anything but scrubs unless an applicant is around.
3. No trauma at Mayo. Again, untrue. While Rochester is not the "knife and gun club" type of city, there are many MVA and other type of traumas that are assigned to solely the chiefs and the 2nd year residents. The residents will tell you that one of the hardest years is the chief year due to the trauma burden.
4. There are others, but I will, in fairness, mention what I think are weaknesses.
Weaknesses:
1. Rochester. A great place to live if married- tough if you are single.
2. It is not University-based. As a result, I believe that it lacks some of the basic science infrastructure that other places have. They are aware of this and are recruiting more basic science types.
My Conclusions: Overall, a great place to train. This program offers more flexibility than any other programs I visited. The call schedule is great and the opportunity to conduct research is unlimited, specifically clinical research. I will likely rank them very high in the face of visiting other very good programs such as UCSF, Duke, MGH, and Pittsburgh. My last bit of advice is visit those programs that interest you. The stuff you read on these boards and hear via the "grapevine" is likely false.
I spent a month at the Mayo clinic on the NS service as an away elective, so I believe that I can provide you with some insight.
Rumors that are not true:
1. At Mayo, the residents do not operate because people "do not go to Mayo to be operated on by residents." Actually, I found that the residents operate more at Mayo than the other 10 NS programs at which I interviewed/visited. I found that the Junior residents were completing entire procedures with minimal intrusion.
2. The residents wear suits everyday. In NS, the residents operate so much that they do not attend clinic except for a few months during their elective year. As a result, they never wear anything but scrubs unless an applicant is around.
3. No trauma at Mayo. Again, untrue. While Rochester is not the "knife and gun club" type of city, there are many MVA and other type of traumas that are assigned to solely the chiefs and the 2nd year residents. The residents will tell you that one of the hardest years is the chief year due to the trauma burden.
4. There are others, but I will, in fairness, mention what I think are weaknesses.
Weaknesses:
1. Rochester. A great place to live if married- tough if you are single.
2. It is not University-based. As a result, I believe that it lacks some of the basic science infrastructure that other places have. They are aware of this and are recruiting more basic science types.
My Conclusions: Overall, a great place to train. This program offers more flexibility than any other programs I visited. The call schedule is great and the opportunity to conduct research is unlimited, specifically clinical research. I will likely rank them very high in the face of visiting other very good programs such as UCSF, Duke, MGH, and Pittsburgh. My last bit of advice is visit those programs that interest you. The stuff you read on these boards and hear via the "grapevine" is likely false.
- Joined
- May 2, 2001
- Messages
- 1,619
- Reaction score
- 198
Ferris,
I'm glad you enjoyed your rotation @ Mayo, but the fact is the points I made are true. There is no built in indigent population, there is little autonomy, & the trauma volume is minimal as compared to almost any University based program. In reflection, NES may be a little less handicapped than the other specialties by the trauma issue as most of their cases are non-emergent (spine, tumors, aneurysms) & few do much CHI trauma after training.
I'm glad you enjoyed your rotation @ Mayo, but the fact is the points I made are true. There is no built in indigent population, there is little autonomy, & the trauma volume is minimal as compared to almost any University based program. In reflection, NES may be a little less handicapped than the other specialties by the trauma issue as most of their cases are non-emergent (spine, tumors, aneurysms) & few do much CHI trauma after training.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2001
- Messages
- 246
- Reaction score
- 0
I guess while I am very strongly hoping to do my MD/PhD at Mayo I must agree with droliver regarding the lack of "tremendous trauma" at Mayo. But, going along with what droliver said, being a tertiary care referral center that receives a lot of complicated CHRONIC cases, the training at Mayo NES doesn't really thrive on trauma cases anyway. While I'm no surgeon or resident for that matter I think trauma experience is a good one -- but in the long run I think it's one's approach into the chronic intracacies of neurological surgery that's most important in the craft. But then again, what the heck do I know.
- Joined
- May 4, 2001
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
As a resident, a low trauma load and a paucity of indigient care is not necessarily a bad thing. There are programs such as Miami that are known for trauma and others, perhaps Mayo, that are not. With that being said, there was plenty of trauma during my visit.
I also completely disagree with the autonomy issue. One attraction to that program was the autonomy among residents (in and out of the OR). The other great aspect about Mayo is that the rigid heirarchy that often exists at other programs does not at Mayo. You do not answer to a senior res. or a chief, just your attending-- and the attending does not micromanage your patients-- you do.
I am not trying to be defiant nor am I a spokeperson for Mayo, etc, etc, however, I am trying to dispel myths that continue about programs. Again, my advice is to see it for yourself and speak with residents that are at various programs about THEIR programs. I found residents to be reasonably honest and pragmatic down to the most negative of program qualities.
Feel free to contact me for more information or to discuss the MD/PhD thing as I have finished that route myself. Good Luck.
I also completely disagree with the autonomy issue. One attraction to that program was the autonomy among residents (in and out of the OR). The other great aspect about Mayo is that the rigid heirarchy that often exists at other programs does not at Mayo. You do not answer to a senior res. or a chief, just your attending-- and the attending does not micromanage your patients-- you do.
I am not trying to be defiant nor am I a spokeperson for Mayo, etc, etc, however, I am trying to dispel myths that continue about programs. Again, my advice is to see it for yourself and speak with residents that are at various programs about THEIR programs. I found residents to be reasonably honest and pragmatic down to the most negative of program qualities.
Feel free to contact me for more information or to discuss the MD/PhD thing as I have finished that route myself. Good Luck.
- Joined
- May 2, 2001
- Messages
- 1,619
- Reaction score
- 198
Ferris,
my impressions of MAYO have come from 2 of my friends who are current residents @ MAYO in a surgical subspecialty, a recent graduate of the gen. surgery program who was a fellow here last year, and one of the orthopedic attendings here who did a fellowship there. While they all like certain things about Mayo and got ok training, they all have had similar insights into the weakness about their setup as a training program. All made similar comments about the "autonomy" issues. As a rule of thumb, if you go to private programs (even the larger ones Mayo, Clevland Clinc, Oschner Clinic, etc..) you will be on a shorter leash. Indigent & trauma patients are one of your most valuable teaching tools are very important for your training and growth. I think one day you'll understand 🙂
my impressions of MAYO have come from 2 of my friends who are current residents @ MAYO in a surgical subspecialty, a recent graduate of the gen. surgery program who was a fellow here last year, and one of the orthopedic attendings here who did a fellowship there. While they all like certain things about Mayo and got ok training, they all have had similar insights into the weakness about their setup as a training program. All made similar comments about the "autonomy" issues. As a rule of thumb, if you go to private programs (even the larger ones Mayo, Clevland Clinc, Oschner Clinic, etc..) you will be on a shorter leash. Indigent & trauma patients are one of your most valuable teaching tools are very important for your training and growth. I think one day you'll understand 🙂
- Joined
- May 2, 2001
- Messages
- 1,619
- Reaction score
- 198
I'm with ferris. The classes are so small that there's not a lot of grads floating around to talk to. One of our faculty who has several million $$$ in NIH grants went there. It (Mayo) does not tend to come up in discussions about the top med schools however (for what that's worth)
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2001
- Messages
- 246
- Reaction score
- 0
I guess having only few people around doesn't help much. I was actually considering between Sinai, Mayo and Northwestern. But there's something about the Mayo atmosphere that draws me to it. It seems to be one of the best medical campuses I've seen yet. Also the funding is superb. But I do agree I may wanna come back to a more city based environment for residency purposes.
Similar threads
- Locked
