Mayo doesn't accept post-bac coursework?

[Adradr]

From their website: "Students must complete a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college or university located in the United States or Canada and must complete the final two years and all prerequisite courses for admissions at the institution from which their undergraduate degree is granted."

I think the intention of this guideline is to keep people from taking their pre-med requirements at "easier" schools during the summer, but it's pretty restrictive when you consider how many scenarios it essentially renders unacceptable for consideration.

Does anyone know how this guideline holds up for post-bac students? I emailed them, and I can't imagine that this applies, but at the same time they only need an entering class of 43 and they're Mayo, after all.

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[Law2Doc]

From their website: "Students must complete a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college or university located in the United States or Canada and must complete the final two years and all prerequisite courses for admissions at the institution from which their undergraduate degree is granted."

I think the intention of this guideline is to keep people from taking their pre-med requirements at "easier" schools during the summer, but it's pretty restrictive when you consider how many scenarios it essentially renders unacceptable for consideration.

Does anyone know how this guideline holds up for post-bac students? I emailed them, and I can't imagine that this applies, but at the same time they only need an entering class of 43 and they're Mayo, after all.

I'm pretty sure there have been SDN nontrads who have attended or been accepted to Mayo, so I kind of doubt they won't look at postbacs. But I defer to others who actually attend.

 

[EEL08]

I'm not applying to Mayo but as a nontrad I would think they would have to have some kind of exception. I graduated from a Bible College that doesn't even offer most of the prereqs therefore I took them at different schools. I'm sure someone else has been in a similar situation and had to work around it with Mayo but hopefully someone who actually knows will reply.

 

[QofQuimica]

Efex101 is a Mayo student. I am pretty sure she did not do a post bac though; I think she went to college for the first time in her 30s. You might try PMing her to ask. Or, just call the Mayo admissions office and explain your situation, and ask them. That's probably the best idea.

 

[postbacker]

OP, you left out a key sentence from the website:

"To be considered for acceptance, international students must meet all current MMS admissions criteria. Students must complete a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university located in the United States or Canada and must complete the final two years and all prerequisite courses for admissions at the institution from which their undergraduate degree is granted."

It sounds to me like this requirement is directed at international students who might be eligible to transfer up to 2 years foreign credit to a US or Canadian college, so Mayo wants to make sure that all of the pre-reqs are taken at the US or Canadian college...I could be wrong, and this could be written much more clearly because it is easy to see more than one interpretation...

Do keep us posted if you hear anything from Mayo...

 

[viostorm]

Why would you guys want to freeze your *@#$ off there anyway?



If you've got the grades for Mayo why not consider Univ of Hawaii? Surf every afternoon?

 

[MJB]

I wish I could have erased my original undergraduate work and just re-done it..

 

[QofQuimica]

Why would you guys want to freeze your *@#$ off there anyway?



If you've got the grades for Mayo why not consider Univ of Hawaii? Surf every afternoon?

Hawaii doesn't take too many OOS students. But there's always residency.

 

[Meatwad]

Hawaii doesn't take too many OOS students. But there's always residency.

Ahh, dermatology in Hawaii... that's lifestyle for ya

 

[MossPoh]

Ahh, dermatology in Hawaii... that's lifestyle for ya

Yea....I wouldn't mind that. Except I do care to get off the island a bit. I'd imagine scuba, sailing, and fishing MIGHT hold me over for a few years though.

 

[QofQuimica]

Ahh, dermatology in Hawaii... that's lifestyle for ya

If they have as much skin cancer in HI as we do in FL, doing derm there is probably pretty lucrative and there's plenty of job security.

Derm is gross though. I'd rather be, um, an emergency doc on the beach. How about that for lifestyle!

 

[Meatwad]

If they have as much skin cancer in HI as we do in FL, doing derm there is probably pretty lucrative and there's plenty of job security.

Derm is gross though. I'd rather be, um, an emergency doc on the beach. How about that for lifestyle!

True, true. Plus, you'd have a little more time to party on the beach while studying for Step 1 if you chose EM over derm.

 

[Adradr]

OP, you left out a key sentence from the website:

"To be considered for acceptance, international students must meet all current MMS admissions criteria. Students must complete a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college or university located in the United States or Canada and must complete the final two years and all prerequisite courses for admissions at the institution from which their undergraduate degree is granted."

It sounds to me like this requirement is directed at international students who might be eligible to transfer up to 2 years foreign credit to a US or Canadian college, so Mayo wants to make sure that all of the pre-reqs are taken at the US or Canadian college...I could be wrong, and this could be written much more clearly because it is easy to see more than one interpretation...

Do keep us posted if you hear anything from Mayo...

You were right, postbacker. MMS didn't reply to my email last week, so I called them just now and talked to a really lovely woman in the office. She confirmed that this requirement is directed at international students.

Sorry for spreading my paranoia around

 

[postbacker]

You were right, postbacker. MMS didn't reply to my email last week, so I called them just now and talked to a really lovely woman in the office. She confirmed that this requirement is directed at international students.

Sorry for spreading my paranoia around

Hey, it was very poorly written, and I think it deserved an explanation from someone at Mayo...thanks for following up on it for the rest of us...

 

[drizzt3117]

You were right, postbacker. MMS didn't reply to my email last week, so I called them just now and talked to a really lovely woman in the office. She confirmed that this requirement is directed at international students.

Sorry for spreading my paranoia around

Did she tell you when they were going to send out secondaries and what they might consist of, by any chance? haha

 

[Adradr]

Did she tell you when they were going to send out secondaries and what they might consist of, by any chance? haha

Actually, she was pretty informative and I am pretty nosy . She currently has a stack of about 200 AMCAS primaries that she is checking for prerequisites (completed/planned), so $85 gets you a spot in that pile. She then passes applications that pass her screen to the admissions committee. She was not exactly sure how long this would take.

If an application makes the cut, the secondary this year consists of 2 essays. There is no phone interview; they've changed their system this year.

Good luck everyone!

 

[brainfry]

Actually, she was pretty informative and I am pretty nosy . She currently has a stack of about 200 AMCAS primaries that she is checking for prerequisites (completed/planned), so $85 gets you a spot in that pile. She then passes applications that pass her screen to the admissions committee. She was not exactly sure how long this would take.

If an application makes the cut, the secondary this year consists of 2 essays. There is no phone interview; they've changed their system this year.

Good luck everyone!

Thanks for the info!!! I've been wondering what's going on...

 

[Beau Geste]

If they have as much skin cancer in HI as we do in FL, doing derm there is probably pretty lucrative and there's plenty of job security.

Derm is gross though. I'd rather be, um, an emergency doc on the beach. How about that for lifestyle!

Sharkbite!

 

[efex101]

Hello everyone, Mayo is an excellent place to go to medical school and the NEW curriculum is just downright phenomenal. I am now a fourth year and very happy with my choice. Yes, it is cold but to be honest you will not be able to freeze even if you try

Good luck!

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

I had applied to Mayo as a non-trad with post-bacc work PLUS a MS in Biochemistry. My BS (1990) GPA was 2.8. My post-bacc GPA was around 3.8, as was my graduate GPA. Mayo reps (included Mayo MSIIIs and MSIVs) at a college health fair thought I would get a really good look.

Well, after submitting my secondary fee only to find out I would not be getting an interview I contacted the Dean of Admissions there. She was very nice, listened to my entire story, and had her assistant schedule a telephone conference for a future date (here I thought I was about to get a second look).

My subsequent teleconference with her revealed a no-exception policy that, during the screening process for 2nd interviews (then it was a telephone interview, not sure if it still is), only those applicants who meet a minimum calculated number will move forward in the process.

The magic formula is (or was...don't know if it has changed since) 10 times your UNDERGRAD (regardless of WHEN your completed your undergrad and regardless of more current performance with post-bacc or Masters or PhD) GPA plus your MCAT score. The magic number to hit was 60. I hit 55.

It was painfully obvious that I would have gone forward had I scored better on my MCAT, but, at the time, I felt this was really unjust. 1st, I had current post-bacc and graduate GPAs that would have made my number. And second, once your MCAT is 3 years old the scores are no good. So, on one hand, they will only accept the latest, most recent MCAT score but will totally ignore the latest and most recent GPA.

Anyway, just happened upon this thread and thought I would offer the OP my 2 cents.

Good luck everyone! Go 'returning students'!

 

[postbacker]

I had applied to Mayo as a non-trad with post-bacc work PLUS a MS in Biochemistry. My BS (1990) GPA was 2.8. My post-bacc GPA was around 3.8, as was my graduate GPA. Mayo reps (included Mayo MSIIIs and MSIVs) at a college health fair thought I would get a really good look.

Well, after submitting my secondary fee only to find out I would not be getting an interview I contacted the Dean of Admissions there. She was very nice, listened to my entire story, and had her assistant schedule a telephone conference for a future date (here I thought I was about to get a second look).

My subsequent teleconference with her revealed a no-exception policy that, during the screening process for 2nd interviews (then it was a telephone interview, not sure if it still is), only those applicants who meet a minimum calculated number will move forward in the process.

The magic formula is (or was...don't know if it has changed since) 10 times your UNDERGRAD (regardless of WHEN your completed your undergrad and regardless of more current performance with post-bacc or Masters or PhD) GPA plus your MCAT score. The magic number to hit was 60. I hit 55.

It was painfully obvious that I would have gone forward had I scored better on my MCAT, but, at the time, I felt this was really unjust. 1st, I had current post-bacc and graduate GPAs that would have made my number. And second, once your MCAT is 3 years old the scores are no good. So, on one hand, they will only accept the latest, most recent MCAT score but will totally ignore the latest and most recent GPA.

Anyway, just happened upon this thread and thought I would offer the OP my 2 cents.

Good luck everyone! Go 'returning students'!

If Mayo's magic number for advancing applicants in the process to the interview is just 60, that is really low and kind of surprising that it would be that low...

I would be surprised if you got any love from any allopathic schools with your number (55), and I assume your AZCOM signature more or less confirms that...is that a fair or accurate assumption?

A 55 is not even close to 60, you do realize? There is a huge difference between a 55 and a 60 or any 5 point difference for that matter...so I guess my question is: how could you have been surprised by this result?

Not trying to enflame you or anyone else, but I don't really understand your point...

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

If Mayo's magic number for advancing applicants in the process to the interview is just 60, that is really low and kind of surprising that it would be that low...

I would be surprised if you got any love from any allopathic schools with your number (55), and I assume your AZCOM signature more or less confirms that...is that a fair or accurate assumption?

A 55 is not even close to 60, you do realize? There is a huge difference between a 55 and a 60 or any 5 point difference for that matter...so I guess my question is: how could you have been surprised by this result?

Not trying to enflame you or anyone else, but I don't really understand your point...

I doubt that you are not trying to be inflammatory. Please, spare the flipping drama.

Simply put, at the time, Mayo's policy dictated that they ignore my most recent work in favor of a 15 year old GPA.

Now, I could not be happier, so if my post came across as bitter I apologize.

My point was to directly address the OP's question regarding post-bacc work.

At the time I applied, no matter how old your undergrad GPA was, and no matter how well you performed during post-bacc and / or graduate school, Mayo used the undergrad GPA in their calculation...that's it.

 

[Kate6058]

AZCOMstudentdoc, your point is understood, and that just sucks. Why would they choose to ignore post bac work? What if, as in my case, your original undergrad GPA doesn't include any of the prereqs? Can anyone verify if this is still the standard at Mayo?

 

[postbacker]

I doubt that you are not trying to be inflammatory. Please, spare the flipping drama.

Simply put, at the time, Mayo's policy dictated that they ignore my most recent work in favor of a 15 year old GPA.

Now, I could not be happier, so if my post came across as bitter I apologize.

My point was to directly address the OP's question regarding post-bacc work.

At the time I applied, no matter how old your undergrad GPA was, and no matter how well you performed during post-bacc and / or graduate school, Mayo used the undergrad GPA in their calculation...that's it.

OK...but you do realize that is how virtually all Allo schools view GPA, right? Graduate GPAs do not make up for low UG GPAs...this is universally true (we may not like it, but it is the common practice) so to single out Mayo for this practice is, well, wrong.

Was your post bacc done in undergrad coursework? Then your AMCAS calculated undergrad GPA should have been higher than 2.8 - what was your AMCAS GPA? What was your BCPM? These are the most important to allo schools, not masters program grades...

Or are you saying that Mayo doesn't consider your post bac grades as part of your undergrad grades...because if that is the case, then that is unique and worthy of discussion...I will be surprised if this is the case, though...

Finally...you say your Mayo magic number was 55, with a 2.8 GPA...so that must mean your MCAT was 27...Dude, I hate to break it to you, but you could have gotten screened for your MCAT alone, so it may be time to stop blaming that GPA...and stop blaming Mayo.

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

OK...but you do realize that is how virtually all Allo schools view GPA, right? Graduate GPAs do not make up for low UG GPAs...this is universally true (we may not like it, but it is the common practice) so to single out Mayo for this practice is, well, wrong.

Was your post bacc done in undergrad coursework?

Yes.

Then your AMCAS calculated undergrad GPA should have been higher than 2.8 - what was your AMCAS GPA? What was your BCPM?

Both were higher...above 3.0...can't remember specific numbers right now and AMCAS log-in for 2006 application to get them is not working.

Or are you saying that Mayo doesn't consider your post bac grades as part of your undergrad grades...because if that is the case, then that is unique and worthy of discussion...

Ahhh...YES...that is exactly what I am saying...at least during the 2006 admissions cycle. It does sound like they made some changes to the process...but who knows.

I was speaking with the Mayo Dean of Admissions at the time, and she volunteered the information on the magic formula to help explain why I would go no further despite - to her - the fact that I was a competitive candidate otherwise. I don't really know if this formula or method is / was common knowledge or not. It very-well could be used, in some form, at most allopathic schools.

By nature, it stands to reason that, on average, traditional applicants have higher undergrad GPAs than non-traditional applicants...if not for the most simple reason that traditional applicants knew they were going to apply to medical school while completing their undergrad degree, and were probably better students as a result.

A lot can change in 5, 10, 15 years or more...let alone a student finally pursuing medicine, going "back to school", busting their butt and earning a nearly perfect GPA. The personal fulfillment of doing so will only get the nontraditional medical school applicant so far.

 

[efex101]

First of all, no system can be perfect period. Schools get up to 5000 applications for a limited number of slots so of course they SCREEN somehow. Mayo gets upward of 3000 application for 36 slots! because remember, although we have 42 students, 2 of those are DDS -to MD, and 2-4 go to Md/PhD students, so that leaves very few slots for MD applicants. ALL schools will screen GPA and MCAT to at least get a "working" pile of applications. Getting secondaries means NOTHING unless that school screens prior to sending these out. So again, that is why applying to as many schools as you can afford to is KEY to getting in! there are just too many folks applying for limited slots. About post-bacc, to my understanding that gets listed as post-bacc *but* when it comes down to calculating GPA (undergrad versus grad) if your post-bacc work was in undergrad courses, then the grades will get calculated into the UNDERGRAD GPA. So yes, if your OLD OLD grades were dismal and then you got A's in post-bacc undergrad classes, this "may" get you screened out. This is just the way it is and hence applying broadly is KEY. Good luck to all.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't really see what the big deal is with a GPAx10 + MCAT screen of 60. That's laughably low... If you can't pass a screen of that level you're unlikely to be accepted to any allopathic medical school, much less Mayo.

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

Finally...you say your Mayo magic number was 55, with a 2.8 GPA...so that must mean your MCAT was 27...Dude, I hate to break it to you, but you could have gotten screened for your MCAT alone, so it may be time to stop blaming that GPA...and stop blaming Mayo.

Nice edit.

Did you read my earlier post?

...It was painfully obvious that I would have gone forward had I scored better on my MCAT...

So, it should have been obvious that I am not blaming my GPA. Finally, it is fair to expect an adcom to consider your most recent work...so i still say the formula is flawed (note...I have taken Mayo out of the picture here).

Good luck postbacker, at least you now know that you will still be judged on your 'original' undergrad GPA...however good, bad or mediocre.

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

That's laughably low...

It must be tough knowing that so many scored below you Mr 39S. Too bad MCAT scores have zero predictive value on whether or not you will be a great physician.

A much better predictor is your attitude and personality...enough said.

 

[drizzt3117]

It must be tough knowing that so many scored below you Mr 39S. Too bad MCAT scores have zero predictive value on whether or not you will be a great physician.

A much better predictor is your attitude and personality...enough said.

Critical reasoning abilities are a useful skill for medicine. Perusing the 2006-2007 MSAR for Mayo finds an average GPA for the entering class of 3.85 and average MCAT of 33.8, for a total GPA * 10 + MCAT average of 72.3. According to what was posted here, Mayo offered phone interviews to about 750 people last year with an applicant pool of about 3000. That means about 75% of the applicant pool needs to be rejected. That screen is approximately 80% of their entering average, which is pretty low compared to other schools, and I imagine it won't even eliminate 25% of the 2250 candidates they need to eliminate from consideration for phone interviews. This year, apparently Mayo is only offering secondaries to 500 people or about 16% of applicants. I don't feel my application is the strongest and wouldn't be surprised to receive a rejection from there with an index score of 75. I guess I just don't understand the surprise in being rejected with scores that simply aren't competitive. Optimism and hope are good things, but sometimes it's necessary to simply be realistic.

 

[efex101]

That is key, being realistic but still applying to some "reach" schools, because to be honest you never know.

 

[postbacker]

It must be tough knowing that so many scored below you Mr 39S. Too bad MCAT scores have zero predictive value on whether or not you will be a great physician.

A much better predictor is your attitude and personality...enough said.

High MCAT scores DO have a high predictive value on whether or not one will get admitted to medical school in the first place...

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

High MCAT scores DO have a high predictive value on whether or not one will get admitted to medical school in the first place...

Yes, of course, but have nothing to do with who you are as a person, which will ultimately define who you will become as a physician.

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

Critical reasoning abilities are a useful skill for medicine.

You are absolutely correct. The MCAT, however, does not assess critical reasoning. The MCAT is an assessment of one thing, an applicant's ability to take a test. This is true of all similar exams.

You can either be brilliant or really dumb...but you MUST be a great test-taker to consistently score well on tests, of any kind.

A practical exam - the kind where you are actually doing or simulating the skill(s) being assessed - is really the only test that can predict your success or failure at anything requiring the use of said skill(s).

The MCAT is used as a standardized tool for medical school admissions. Even the adcoms will tell you that your score has little to do with any more than that.

Ok...sorry to the OP for helping this thread down a different path. For the sake of getting it back on track I will limit my future posts here to the topic of the thread.

 

[drizzt3117]

The MCAT is used as a standardized tool for medical school admissions. Even the adcoms will tell you that your score has little to do with any more than that.

The reason the MCAT is important is not necessarily because of its predictive value in terms of medical school performance, but because of its predictive value regarding USMLE Step 1 performance, at which it is the best known predictor of success.

In any case, the MCAT is a test which examines the full range of subject matter that is considered pre-requisite material for the MCAT. While it is arguable whether this material is the correct subject matter for preparation for medical school, there is no doubt that the MCAT draws from that pool of material, and any or all of it is fair game.

 

[Friendly]

You are absolutely correct. The MCAT, however, does not assess critical reasoning.

You have got to be kidding! Critical reasoning is exactly what the MCAT assesses. Too many people score poorly by memorizing minutia for this exam.

 

[Friendly]

The reason the MCAT is important is not necessarily because of its predictive value in terms of medical school performance, but because of its predictive value regarding USMLE Step 1 performance, at which it is the best known predictor of success.

Exactly, though realize that the correlation is significant with such a large sample size, but it's only slight. Med schools feel that good test takers will stay that way and vice versa - even though that's not always a fair assumption. Med school is four years of tests, and there are four written standardized exams that you have to pass to be an independent practitioner who is board-certified after all of that, and then you get to retake your boards every 7-10 years....for the rest of your working life. This career is very much about tests. As unfair as that it, the U.S. likes to quantify and categorize everything.

 

[drizzt3117]

Exactly, though realize that the correlation is significant with such a large sample size, but it's only slight. Med schools feel that good test takers will stay that way and vice versa - even though that's not always a fair assumption. Med school is four years of tests, and there are four written standardized exams that you have to pass to be an independent practitioner who is board-certified after all of that, and then you get to retake your boards every 7-10 years....for the rest of your working life. This career is very much about tests. As unfair as that it, the U.S. likes to quantify and categorize everything.

Additionally, I think it's difficult to argue that performing well under stress isn't a valuable attribute for medical school as well, which makes the MCAT a good test for that purpose.

 

[Friendly]

Additionally, I think it's difficult to argue that performing well under stress is a valuable attribute for medical school as well, which makes the MCAT a good test for that purpose.

You mean it's easy to argue that performing well under stress is a valuable attribute for medical school.....

 

[drizzt3117]

You mean it's easy to argue that performing well under stress is a valuable attribute for medical school.....

actaully I meant it's difficult to argue that performing well under stress ISN'T a valuable attribute for medical school but I must have misplaced a n, t and apostrophe somewhere.

 

[Kate6058]

Once again, can someone confirm whether or not Mayo disregards postbac GPA as part of the undergrad gpa when doing their own screening calculations?

 

[postbacker]

Once again, can someone confirm whether or not Mayo disregards postbac GPA as part of the undergrad gpa when doing their own screening calculations?

There were multiple confusions on this thread - the OP misread the Mayo policy on post bacc grades, and the confusion was compounded when AZCOM expressed his opinion that post bacc grades are not considered in the "magic formula" at Mayo, but there is absolutely no support for this opinion anywhere on the Mayo website...

My opinion: Post Bacc classes taken at the undergrad level are always included in your undergrad GPA by AMCAS, so they can't be ignored, and there is nothing on the Mayo website indicating they discount or separate post bacc grades from your undergrad grades.

If this is really still a burning question for you, write them or call them - they seem happy to clear up this kind of confusion per the OP's experience with them...

 

[datsa]

Why would you guys want to freeze your *@#$ off there anyway?

If you've got the grades for Mayo why not consider Univ of Hawaii? Surf every afternoon?

Some of us like cold, cold weather, well at least I do.