Mayo (MN) vs UCLA vs Northwestern

[premed1231051831]

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I am extremely grateful to have these options, but I have been struggling to really get a feel for these places over Zoom and make a decision, so would love any and all thoughts. My goal is to go into either IM or surgery--> oncology and then hopefully academic medicine. I am very focused on research and also want to be involved in biotech/drug design.

Mayo (MN):
Pros-

• Probably best clinical training of the three
• Small class size means a lot of mentorship and opportunities
• Insane match list
• Gave me $$$ to cover ~50% COA

Cons-

• I'm very concerned the small class size is too small and I won't have friends/find my people in my med school class (especially since I'm not coming in with a partner, family, etc., and I got the vibe that a lot of people are)
• I was really hoping to do a MD/MBA, but I would only be able to do it at ASU, and I don't want to spend the $ for that degree (I could always take time off, but I don't want to take off a full 2 years to do the degree either)
• Seems like an isolated environment, concerned there is no real biotech community and people are focused on clinical medicine more than anything else

UCLA:
Pros-

• Also really great clinical training
• New curriculum means I would be able to spend a full year on research/a dual degree and still graduate in 4 years
• Great MD/MBA program
• Would be able to get in-state residency after year 1 and save some $ on tuition

Cons-

• Significantly larger class size than Mayo could mean less personalized attention/mentorship
• 1 year pre-clinical curriculum feels very fast
• New curriculum means my class would be the guinea pigs and we would rotate at the same time as 1-2 classes above us
• I don't want to stay in CA forever (entire family is on the east coast) and match list is very CA-heavy
• Did not give me anywhere near close to Mayo $

Northwestern:
Pros-

• Still really great clinical training (?)
• Amazing MD/MBA program
• More traditional curriculum

Cons-

• Not sure the name is at the same level as Mayo or UCLA, but not sure this is true
• Potentially slightly worse match list than UCLA/Mayo, but also not sure if this is true
• No $ yet (haven't heard back)

Summary:
I know all of these are great options, but everything has felt/sounded the same on Zoom, and I don't have a strong gut feeling. Mayo would save me roughly $160,000 in total, which is a lot of money, and I know that the Mayo name/reputation/clinical training means a lot. However, the small class size and the fact I would essentially have to write off doing a MBA bothers me. At the same time, I don't know if those are valid reasons to choose UCLA or Northwestern, especially if going to UCLA/Northwestern would put me in a worse place for residency than Mayo (is this true?). I also know a lot of these pros/cons are general. So if anyone has thoughts or advice, I would really appreciate it. Thank you!

 

[proudofmykids]

Well, do you want LA or Chicago?
None of the choices will hold you back.
I would recommend that you let NU and UCLA know what your offer is from Mayo and ask them to at least meet it. Give them the minimum target rather than waiting until having to revisit with them until after.

 

[KendallJennerSniperLady69]

It seems that you are set on doing an MBA. The reputation of the MBA matters heavily (a lower tiered one is basically useless when times are tough and companies have to tighten up on hiring/spending), so I would honestly choose Northwestern here.

In the MBA world, pretty much no one would choose anything over a an M7 school like Kellogg (Northwestern's MBA program).

 

[wondervisions]

I don't think an MBA is worth 160k, especially if you're primarily interested in academia.

 

[premed1231051831]

Well, do you want LA or Chicago?
None of the choices will hold you back.
I would recommend that you let NU and UCLA know what your offer is from Mayo and ask them to at least meet it. Give them the minimum target rather than waiting until having to revisit with them until after.

Thank you! I reached out to both, haven't heard back from NU yet, UCLA said they had given out all their $ but would keep me updated if anything changes.

And in terms of LA or Chicago- I don't know. I know I'll live there for four years, but I'm reasonably confident I would be happy in either place. The only thing concerning to me about LA is that to establish residency I wouldn't be able to leave the state of California for a year (so I couldn't visit home), but it would be worth the savings from in-state tuition.

 

[premed1231051831]

It seems that you are set on doing an MBA. The reputation of the MBA matters heavily (a lower tiered one is basically useless when times are tough and companies have to tighten up on hiring/spending), so I would honestly choose Northwestern here.

In the MBA world, pretty much no one would choose anything over a an M7 school like Kellogg (Northwestern's MBA program).

Thanks for these perspectives. Agreed that Feinberg's MBA is unmatched, but I am not sure the reputation of the MBA program is more important than the reputation/strength of the med school, if that makes sense.

I don't think an MBA is worth 160k, especially if you're primarily interested in academia.

And yeah, I know. I just wasn't expecting to have to make this choice now, but choosing Mayo would basically eliminate this option for me.

 

[deleted1100653]

Just as a side note, Northwestern sent me my financial aid package to their new email they started for me (so annoying lol) and I had to log into a different portal (the Ceasar one or whatever) to view it.

 

[sophop]

Your Mayo cons #1 & 3 contributed to turning down their very generous offer. Esp #1, since there just wasn't a "connection" with the other Mayo students at either the interview or 2nd look (it's tough for you since you can't visit). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they are awesome people, but I figured that if I was going to be huddling in the Rochester cold in a stressful situation with a small class, I really wanted to at least feel comfy with them and I just didn't (I'm sure the problem is me not them).

 

[wondervisions]

Thanks for these perspectives. Agreed that Feinberg's MBA is unmatched, but I am not sure the reputation of the MBA program is more important than the reputation/strength of the med school, if that makes sense.


And yeah, I know. I just wasn't expecting to have to make this choice now, but choosing Mayo would basically eliminate this option for me.

Is having the option of an MBA worth 160k to you?

 

[premed1231051831]

Is having the option of an MBA worth 160k to you?

If I am choosing between three equally 'ranked' med schools, then yeah, I think it is. It isn't just the MBA for me, it also means having a community of people involved in biotech/business. But medicine is my primary goal, and so if the MBA means choosing a medical school that wouldn't give me the training/launching pad that another school without a MBA would, I would still choose the better med school. I guess I'm trying to figure out if Mayo is better enough of a school beyond UCLA/Northwestern that not having the MBA would still be worth it.

 

[wondervisions]

If I am choosing between three equally 'ranked' med schools, then yeah, I think it is. It isn't just the MBA for me, it also means having a community of people involved in biotech/business. But medicine is my primary goal, and so if the MBA means choosing a medical school that wouldn't give me the training/launching pad that another school without a MBA would, I would still choose the better med school. I guess I'm trying to figure out if Mayo is better enough of a school beyond UCLA/Northwestern that not having the MBA would still be worth it.

Mayo is not a better school than UCLA or NW.

 

[BRTC200]

Seconding above. Mayo, at best, is about the same level as UCLA/Northwestern and realistically at least one notch below. Objectively still good of course, but not quite the same. UCLA’s match list is heavily West biased likely because of its own location on the West coast attracting West coast preferring students— we are sort of our own little cult here.

Speaking of cults, I personally felt that sort of vibe from Mayo in my interview experience and also reading about what they do and how they do things. It’s augmented by the small class sizes so you want to make sure you truly love the whole Mayo way before considering them.

Given your situation, I would definitely be looking at only between UCLA and Northwestern, and would probably lean toward Northwestern for its strong Feinberg name on the MBA side.

 

[joshuamarcus]

In the MBA world, pretty much no one would choose anything over a an M7 school like Kellogg (Northwestern's MBA program).

If OP isnt interested in IB, consulting, or any of the other competitive finance jobs, then does that really matter?

I’d rule out mayo tbh and go to which med school you like more between ucla and nu.

 

[wondervisions]

Seconding above. Mayo, at best, is about the same level as UCLA/Northwestern and realistically at least one notch below. Objectively still good of course, but not quite the same. UCLA’s match list is heavily West biased likely because of its own location on the West coast attracting West coast preferring students— we are sort of our own little cult here.

Speaking of cults, I personally felt that sort of vibe from Mayo in my interview experience and also reading about what they do and how they do things. It’s augmented by the small class sizes so you want to make sure you truly love the whole Mayo way before considering them.

Given your situation, I would definitely be looking at only between UCLA and Northwestern, and would probably lean toward Northwestern for its strong Feinberg name on the MBA side.

Mayo is neither better or worse than UCLA/NW at training future doctors. They are all excellent. It would be silly to try to differentiate between the 3.

 

[deleted1064759]

Mayo is neither better or worse than UCLA/NW at training future doctors.

You can say that about literally any school, but I agree that the reputation of those three is fairly equal.

I think Feinberg would be ideal for you OP. I'll also add that UCLA's match list is most likely self-selecting and you shouldn't have an issue matching back East. Since you said UCLA is out of money, this might come down to the wire waiting on Feinberg's aid package. I know they have given some good scholarships in the past.

 

[premed1231051831]

Thank you all so much for this feedback. For some reason I thought I was making a career-altering decision by not loving Mayo, so I can't even explain how relieved I feel that there isn't a huge difference in reputation/training/matching between Mayo and Northwestern/UCLA.

I am waiting to hear back from both about $. I was wondering if anyone had any other thoughts about Northwestern vs UCLA? I know NU's MBA program is a clear +, but just wondered if anyone had other ideas about things that were +/- about the two.

Thank you all again for the help!!!

 

[Arsartium]

First off congrats OP! Great choices. Agree that you shouldn't worry about prestige here. A few comments about some of your Mayo cons that I hope will be helpful to you and any future readers.

• I'm very concerned the small class size is too small and I won't have friends/find my people in my med school class (especially since I'm not coming in with a partner, family, etc., and I got the vibe that a lot of people are)

Definitely fair to think about, but honestly the way the admissions staff puts a class together is kind of magical haha. I wouldn't worry. Also, a nice feature of small medical school is that you also have great access to all the other class years. For a relationship piece, it's pretty common for maybe 1/4 - 1/3 of the class to have partners but that's par for course at most medical schools in my experience.

I was really hoping to do a MD/MBA, but I would only be able to do it at ASU, and I don't want to spend the $ for that degree (I could always take time off, but I don't want to take off a full 2 years to do the degree either)

MD/MBA -- people get their MBA at different stages in their career for different reasons. What motivates you to seek an MBA now? While it could be helpful for biotech/business, you can acquire the skillset offered by a MBA in a few different ways (and at a few different times --residency, fellowship, attending). With regard to MBA prestige, where you get your MD is going to matter far more than your MBA. MBA name recognition matters far less for an MD graduate. I understand not wanting to take time off. MD students usually can get into any MBA program they want though (often with a full scholarship). If you want to stay close by, University of Minnesota is another option some students pursue. Other past student choices include Wharton and HBS.

Seems like an isolated environment, concerned there is no real biotech community and people are focused on clinical medicine more than anything else

Mayo has an active biotech/entrepreneurial community and a pretty generous intellectual property policy with numerous internal funding grants to support entrepreneurs. Even one of my classmates is on her third successful start-up. Another classmate has a pending patent on a gene therapy from a highly prolific drug design lab here. Moreover, Mayo engineers work closely with clinicians to develop customized products. I've personally witnessed this in the robust 3D printing laboratory. In fact, many of the instruments you'll find in the OR were invented at Mayo. Mayo is a biomedical innovation hub; it always has been.

TLDR: You can probably get what you need from any of these fine institutions. If you prefer a more urban environment then UCLA or Northwestern may suit you better. Weigh that against COA though. See if you can get more money from Mayo; never hurts to ask, even if it only sets up you for better leverage when negotiating aid with Northwestern.

P.S. Unfortunately, I can't really comment on Northwestern vs UCLA though I'm partial to Chicago for a few reasons. Patient populations at these institutions are quite different. From what little I know of NW, it is in a fairly "ritzy" part of Chicago and caters to a more homogeneous patient base compared to UCLA. That may or may not matter to you.

Godspeed.