MCAT concerns

[Guitano98]

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So I just got my MCAT back today, and I did worse than I was hoping for.

VR 10
BIO 10
PHY 9
Writing S (does this even matter?)

Anyways I'm a Junior at U of Miami with a 3.9 gap; good extracurriculars (research/shadowing/community involvement that I'm passionate about)

Im not looking to get into a top 20 med school.
Im looking to get into a Florida school, and if I could get into Miller that would be preferable.

I know my score falls within the range for most Florida schools and while my GPA can only help me, I can't help but question if it's worth taking it again. It would be a huge time expenditure (something I'm already pressed on) and truthfully I just don't know if I can significantly increase my score. I studied on my own over the summer using ExamKrackers and I was doing very well on the practice tests from AAMC (33-36) (although they were the longer tests, which I thought would help me since more questions = more practice but perhaps not). I hear that 30 is the score to get but considering my score is already pretty balanced, I just don't know if it makes sense trying again. Any input would be appreciated.

Just some extra info...
I am a Florida resident/neuroscience major; I've shadowed a number of doctors; currently shadowing a melanoma dermatologist once a week; I've been a research assistant by Bascom Palmer for a year (my name will be on 2 national conference posters by December and most likely a publication as well); and I'm heavily involved in a healthy lifestyle outreach program that's working on educating lower/middle school students about how to eat well and be physically active. Randomly I'm a classical pianist, which I love but I don't really know how that will (if at all) influence my application. Thanks again and if you have any questions please ask away!

 

[Moosepig]

That is a tough call. 29 should be enough to get you in considering the 3.9, but it's not a guarantee. If it were me I would probably not retake and retake if I don't get in.

 

[Goro]

STRONGLY concur with this!

That is a tough call. 29 should be enough to get you in considering the 3.9, but it's not a guarantee. If it were me I would probably not retake and retake if I don't get in.

 

[Catalystik]

So I just got my MCAT back today, and I did worse than I was hoping for.

VR 10
BIO 10
PHY 9
Writing S (does this even matter?)

Anyways I'm a Junior at U of Miami with a 3.9 gap; good extracurriculars (research/shadowing/community involvement that I'm passionate about)

Im not looking to get into a top 20 med school.
Im looking to get into a Florida school, and if I could get into Miller that would be preferable.

I know my score falls within the range for most Florida schools and while my GPA can only help me, I can't help but question if it's worth taking it again. It would be a huge time expenditure (something I'm already pressed on) and truthfully I just don't know if I can significantly increase my score. I studied on my own over the summer using ExamKrackers and I was doing very well on the practice tests from AAMC (33-36) (although they were the longer tests, which I thought would help me since more questions = more practice but perhaps not). I hear that 30 is the score to get but considering my score is already pretty balanced, I just don't know if it makes sense trying again. Any input would be appreciated.

Just some extra info...
I am a Florida resident/neuroscience major; I've shadowed a number of doctors; currently shadowing a melanoma dermatologist once a week; I've been a research assistant by Bascom Palmer for a year (my name will be on 2 national conference posters by December and most likely a publication as well); and I'm heavily involved in a healthy lifestyle outreach program that's working on educating lower/middle school students about how to eat well and be physically active. Randomly I'm a classical pianist, which I love but I don't really know how that will (if at all) influence my application. Thanks again and if you have any questions please ask away!

What is your experience actively engaging sick people (as opposed to the passive observation of shadowing)?

How many shadowing hours do you have, and is one of them in primary care?

How substantive is the involvement with the healthy lifestyles outreach?

Mentioning hobbies/avocations and artistic endeavors helps your application to stand out and make you look interesting.

 

[Guitano98]

Retaking it after not getting in would imply waiting another year to matriculate though, right? I rather retake in January (which in itself is highly undesirable) then delay med school by a year if I can help it.

 

[Catalystik]

While most DO med schools will consider a January retake, all but one MD school will not (at least this was true last time I exhaustively searched through the MSAR).

 

[Guitano98]

I haven't had much direct engagement with the sick; is that more important than shadowing? I can only do so many things obviously, but from experience I feel like I learn a lot more about the medical profession when interacting with a doctor who can explain the subtleties of his doctor/patient interactions as opposed to comforting/assisting the sick. Thoughts?

I haven't tallied up shadowing hours, and most of the doctors I've shadowed are specialists of some sort: ophthalmologists, dermatologist, invasive surgeon/orthopedic surgeon. Wouldn't the quality of the shadowing experience be infinitely more important than the quantity of hours shadowing? What does it mean to an ad com when they see: "40 hours shadowing". Nothing can really be extrapolated from that other than that the applicant physically existed in a healthcare environment for that many hours. Shouldn't the important thing be what the applicant can take away from the shadowing experience, being able to internalize practices he sees befitting of a health care professional and dismiss/question practices he finds unbecoming of a health care professional? And then of course understanding how to interact with patients effectively again is crucial, but again I would argue quality comes before quantity.

For example, just yesterday the doctor I was shadowing left the room for a moment leaving me, his patient (a 64 yo man with a number of skin cancers on his body) and his wife. We immediately began talking and I learned that in the 60s and 70s he spent most of his days out on the water surfing, never even questioning the importance of sunblock. Here is a direct manifestation of what happens when someone doesn't take proper precautions to protect their skin. Unfortunately this man has a long road ahead of him if he wants to get better. My take away is the importance of educating the public about how their actions affect their health, and perhaps if this man had known better, he would have taken the extra few minutes to sunblock before he went out to surf and wouldn't be faced with painful radiation/chemo therapies or possibly disfiguring excisions. In that same day, the doctor I shadowed excised a possibly pre-melanomic mole from a young woman and mentioned that he used a numbing agent before hand that wouldn't hurt his patients upon being injected. A candidate could have just took that statement at face value and let it pass, but I inquired further and it turns out that doctors have the option to inject lidocaine with or without bicarbonate. Without the bicarb, the injection burns (as I know from personal experience when getting an in grown toe nail removed). What I didn't know is that adding bicarb to the lidocaine neutralizes the soln. to around your blood pH so that it doesn't burn. So why wouldn't doctors add the bicarbonate? Really depends on how much they care about their patients, and obviously my pediatrist did not care enough about me to take that extra step of adding bicarbonate to ensure the least discomfort for his patient. The cost is negligible; it's really a matter of being a doctor and being a caring doctor, which can make a world of a difference. Now another candidate could have watched a doctor see 40 patients and never interacted with a single one nor the doctor he was "shadowing", who knows he could have been on his phone half the time. My point is that I strongly believe I was able to take away a lot from that single encounter, whereas another candidate may not even take away that much from 40 hours worth of "shadowing". I'm not saying this is a "one and done" thing, but really? Are we going to say that hours as opposed to experiences are more important? Or is this more logistically feasible for the ad com's to "measure" and thus compare candidates by. Hours do not automatically translate to experience.

My community involvement translates into the following: I and a group of likeminded undergrads visit the middle schools/lower schools in the area and do in class readings with the kids from a children's nutritional book (very fun story for them). Afterwards, we engage the class and ask them what they thought about the story as well as what things they can incorporate from the book into their daily lives. I spearheaded this community involvement personally as preventative care is something I'm passionate about, starting with healthy lifestyle. From my perspective, the younger you can ingrain a healthy mindset into people the better, which is why I thought it would be most appropriate to teach kids. On top of this, we're organizing visits for these younger kids to explore our college campus and break them into activities, one of which will focus on eating healthy (that's the activity I'll be running). Finally, we plan on doing school assemblies at these schools we're affiliated with and would hopefully like to bring their parents in to learn about the logistics of how they can go about providing a healthy environment for their children given limited resources.

I love playing piano and ideally I'd like to play in a nursing home in the area, however my teacher and I have been unsuccessful in finding a nursing home where someone speaks English and they have a piano... so I'll keep trying for that but there's obviously so much I can do. I agree that it might help me stand out, but that's just about it so far. I guess a few more seconds looking over my application can be the difference between getting in and not.

 

[Moosepig]

While you might be right about quality being more important than quantity, this touches upon an issue that is a problem for applying to anything academic, not just medical school. That problem being there is no way to standardize quality, whereas there is a way to do so for quantity. Point being, its worth bending to the system and getting your 50 hours of shadowing in.

It won't even take that long if you find a good doctor. The doctor I shadowed worked 10-11 hours a day so I would get 50 hours in a week. You could do that over Christmas.

 

[Guitano98]

Don't worry I'm well on my way; why 50? Is that the system's norm?

 

[Catalystik]

1) I haven't had much direct engagement with the sick; is that more important than shadowing? I can only do so many things obviously, but from experience I feel like I learn a lot more about the medical profession when interacting with a doctor who can explain the subtleties of his doctor/patient interactions as opposed to comforting/assisting the sick. Thoughts?

2) Wouldn't the quality of the shadowing experience be infinitely more important than the quantity of hours shadowing?

3) What does it mean to an ad com when they see: "40 hours shadowing". Nothing can really be extrapolated from that other than that the applicant physically existed in a healthcare environment for that many hours.

4) Shouldn't the important thing be what the applicant can take away from the shadowing experience, being able to internalize practices he sees befitting of a health care professional and dismiss/question practices he finds unbecoming of a health care professional?

5) Now another candidate could have watched a doctor see 40 patients and never interacted with a single one nor the doctor he was "shadowing", who knows he could have been on his phone half the time.

6) Or is this more logistically feasible for the ad com's to "measure" and thus compare candidates by. Hours do not automatically translate to experience.

7) My community involvement translates into the following: I and a group of likeminded undergrads visit the middle schools/lower schools in the area and do in class readings with the kids from a children's nutritional book (very fun story for them). Afterwards, we engage the class and ask them what they thought about the story as well as what things they can incorporate from the book into their daily lives. I spearheaded this community involvement personally as preventative care is something I'm passionate about, starting with healthy lifestyle. From my perspective, the younger you can ingrain a healthy mindset into people the better, which is why I thought it would be most appropriate to teach kids. On top of this, we're organizing visits for these younger kids to explore our college campus and break them into activities, one of which will focus on eating healthy (that's the activity I'll be running). Finally, we plan on doing school assemblies at these schools we're affiliated with and would hopefully like to bring their parents in to learn about the logistics of how they can go about providing a healthy environment for their children given limited resources.

8) I love playing piano and ideally I'd like to play in a nursing home in the area, however my teacher and I have been unsuccessful in finding a nursing home where someone speaks English and they have a piano.

Comments:

1) Many med schools look for both types of activity. Some feel that active and passive clinical experience are interchangeable. Others feel that you need to know if you can stand being around sick folks and if you have the necessary communication skills to fit into a clinical environment comfortably.. I had one mentee who didn't know he was a germophobe, until he started volunteering in a hospital. He decided pharmacy was a better fit for him. Others get light-headed at the sight of blood, or nauseated at the smell/sight of body fluids. Also, better to know now if you don't have a gift for assisting sick folks.

2) Yes.

3) 5) 6) With experience, an adcomm knows that a certain number of shadowing hours is more likely to translate into the expected understanding of what docs do all day. There is often an expectation that the applicant can easily answer questions related to empathy, patient advocacy, malpractice, insurance, medical ethics, give examples of good and bad patient interactions, etc. If they can't, then they will not give a good impression at an interview where such things come up.

4) Exactly.

7) Sounds terrific. And Leadership-y, too.

8) You don't have to play for others to list it as a hobby.

 

[Guitano98]

Thank you so much, you've been very helpful.

I don't understand what you mean when you say all but one of the MD schools will not accept the January retake. I'm not sure if this was unclear but I'm not applying until June 2013 (I took the MCAT earlier than usual), so they should consider both scores, right?

 

[Catalystik]

The way you answered post in #5 made me think you might be involved in the current cycle (maybe due to early graduation plans), as it implied that January was your last possible take date, when April and May are good times, too.

In your case, since you're applying in June 2013, a score from January 2013 is no problem.