MCAT/GPA cut off?

[QofQuimica]

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Thank God. I was beginning to think I was the meanest person in the world. As a personal ancedote, in the first science class I took (exactly 1 year ago) I got a D on a lab report. Not only that, but the TA decided to write on it, "Are you kidding me? Do you even care? Good LUCK getting into med school." It turned out that my lab report was fine, I destroyed the class and ended up taking the TA position after she was fired because every single person she taught complained about her. As I was reading through the posts I thought, "Oh no. I've turned into a terrible human being."

I've never advised a student not to go into medicine for this exact reason. There are a lot of reasons why someone might do poorly that have nothing to do with aptitude, from not putting in enough time studying, to not studying the right way, to adjusting to being in college in general. My physics I professor my first semester of freshman year told me that I did not have any aptitude for math/physics because I failed my first exam in his class. Turns out that I did fine in his class thereafter once I knew what kinds of tests he gave. In fact, I did well enough in physics II that my physics II prof tried to convince me to continue on in physics, and I scored 790 on the math section of the GRE, got As in all four p. chem courses I took in grad school, earned a PhD in chemistry, and scored a 14 on the PS section of the MCAT. I guess I have some aptitude for math/physics after all. But he absolutely just crushed me when he said that; I left his office that day totally bawling. That is one prof I will never forget, and not one of my better college memories. I would never want to be "that TA" either, having been on the receiving end of it myself.

I think the suggestions people have given about stating the facts and letting the student figure it out himself are right on. I will tell people what minimum stats they need (our state schools require a minimum 24 on the MCAT and 3.0 GPA), and that they should not take the MCAT until they can achieve that kind of score on their practice tests or apply to med school if their GPA isn't above a 3.0. I think that says all that needs to be said. Either the student will do the work necessary to get their stats up to par, or they won't. I don't believe that most college students are INCAPABLE of achieving these stats, but many of them will CHOOSE not to do the work needed to get there.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I don't think GPA and program would have any correlation on personality and bedside manner. I'd be interested to see if there have been studies done on this.

You've obviously never met a 4.0 physics major, or in fact are one yourself.

 

[frederico2]

I think you should have a 2.5 and 20 minimum to even make an attempt at medical school. At least from there you can retake courses, take MCAT prep classes, and retake the MCAT.

There is no way to recover from anything below that.

I recovered from a 1.9 GPA (much lower basic sciences GPA) there are no absolutes.
-James

 

[OSUdoc08]

I recovered from a 1.9 GPA (much lower basic sciences GPA) there are no absolutes.
-James

Was your MCAT below 20?

I really don't think so.

Also, did you do any post-graduate work?

 

[frederico2]

Was your MCAT below 20?

I really don't think so.

Also, did you do any post-graduate work?

Had a 1.9 and had never taken the MCAT. Left college with over 200 hours behind me. I came back and cleaned it up retaking prior hurdles and adding new higher level sciences. (nop, no post-bacc, just intensive undergrad) When I finally took the MCAT I made a 29, but what you need to realize is noone is beyond hope. The human spirit is a powerful thing. It is insanely hard to quench. People who want to be doctors because they want the money, the fame or the lifestyle, for those people there is a cutoff point beyond which there is no hope (and I wish it was higher). People who want to be doctors for no reason more important than to carry that role and burden in life, unstoppable.
-James

 

[OSUdoc08]

Had a 1.9 and had never taken the MCAT. Left college with over 200 hours behind me. I came back and cleaned it up retaking prior hurdles and adding new higher level sciences. (nop, no post-bacc, just intensive undergrad) When I finally took the MCAT I made a 29, but what you need to realize is noone is beyond hope. The human spirit is a powerful thing. It is insanely hard to quench. People who want to be doctors because they want the money, the fame or the lifestyle, for those people there is a cutoff point beyond which there is no hope (and I wish it was higher). People who want to be doctors for no reason more important than to carry that role and burden in life, unstoppable.
-James

A low GPA is doable if you do post-graduate work and get a good MCAT.

My contention was that my example of a low MCAT AND GPA is unrecoverable (providing that the exam was taken at the proper time, and not prematurely.)

 

[SpinEcho13]

I think the suggestions people have given about stating the facts and letting the student figure it out himself are right on. I will tell people what minimum stats they need (our state schools require a minimum 24 on the MCAT and 3.0 GPA), and that they should not take the MCAT until they can achieve that kind of score on their practice tests or apply to med school if their GPA isn't above a 3.0. I think that says all that needs to be said. Either the student will do the work necessary to get their stats up to par, or they won't. I don't believe that most college students are INCAPABLE of achieving these stats, but many of them will CHOOSE not to do the work needed to get there.

Extremely well said. 👍 All an advisor can do is advise the student based on their current scores. If the scores aren't good enough the student can either work harder and do it, or persue something else if they are already trying their hardest.

 

[45408]

Ironically, the 3.4 kid will probably be a better physician than the 4.0 physics major, since he more likely has a personality and a good bedside manner.

almost the same percentage of generalizations are true as the number of statistics made up on the spot - usually around 43%.

 

[45408]

I don't see how that is any different than paramedic school.

It's all cake compared to pre-med.

I even did better in my first 2 years of medical school that I did in pre-med.

I wouldn't say nursing is cake compared to pre-med. My fiancee had to work pretty hard for quite a while in her program. I worked harder, but I also needed a higher GPA and more extracurriculars. At the end, her program let off in difficulty, while mine never did. 😛

 

[OSUdoc08]

I wouldn't say nursing is cake compared to pre-med. My fiancee had to work pretty hard for quite a while in her program. I worked harder, but I also needed a higher GPA and more extracurriculars. At the end, her program let off in difficulty, while mine never did. 😛

I did paramedic school while I was taking my pre-med courses, and the paramedic courses were cake. I've compared the paramedic courses to the nursing curriculum, and the nursing courses are no more difficult.

 

[45408]

I did paramedic school while I was taking my pre-med courses, and the paramedic courses were cake. I've compared the paramedic courses to the nursing curriculum, and the nursing courses are no more difficult.

Different strokes for different folks. I thought the MCAT was pretty easy, and I did pretty darn well on it. Three of my friends have higher GPAs than mine, but I beat them by 6-8 points on the MCAT. Some people are good at some things that challenge other people.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Different strokes for different folks. I thought the MCAT was pretty easy, and I did pretty darn well on it. Three of my friends have higher GPAs than mine, but I beat them by 6-8 points on the MCAT. Some people are good at some things that challenge other people.

You're right. However, becoming a nurse isn't more difficult than becoming a physician. It is equivalent to becoming a paramedic.