MCATs for MSTP

[Cognition]

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I know there is a separate forum for MCATs, but... my question would be better answered by all of you great MD/PhD people 😀 Also, I know this thread seems to focus on my worries, but I'm sure there are many others that are now in a similar boat (perhaps also sinking?).

I was told a while back (by Neuronix I think) that I would probably need a 34 to get into average MSTP schools. Well... I didn't... I got 32Q (P11, B12, V9). Now what are my options? Should I retake? Should I end it all now? (just joking). What sort of MSTP programs (if any) focusing in neurology should I even bother applying to? So Harvard/MIT is probably out of the question, but is UCSD? Is it even worth it to apply to top 10, let alone top 20, med schools?

Other info: GPA=3.55 @ Berkeley, dbl major, 2 posters & 1 paper (probably 1-2 more coming) in 2 years in a lab, lots of leadership, lots of volunteering, not urm but do have friendly smile

Any advice or help is very welcome? Hell, even criticism or a chastizing remark would work (it's not like you could make fun of me in anyway that i already haven't).

 

[Gfunk6]

Yes, it is most asssuredly possible to get into MSTPs with a 32 MCAT. Apply to a broad range of schools including lower-ranked MSTPs like UAB, Iowa, PSU, etc. If you have good GPA and strong research then you still have a decent shot.

 

[stillsmilin]

hurry!! (some admissions are rolling)

 

[Maebea]

I know there is a separate forum for MCATs, but... my question would be better answered by all of you great MD/PhD people 😀 Also, I know this thread seems to focus on my worries, but I'm sure there are many others that are now in a similar boat (perhaps also sinking?).

I was told a while back (by Neuronix I think) that I would probably need a 34 to get into average MSTP schools. Well... I didn't... I got 32Q (P11, B12, V9). Now what are my options? Should I retake? Should I end it all now? (just joking). What sort of MSTP programs (if any) focusing in neurology should I even bother applying to? So Harvard/MIT is probably out of the question, but is UCSD? Is it even worth it to apply to top 10, let alone top 20, med schools?

Other info: GPA=3.55 @ Berkeley, dbl major, 2 posters & 1 paper (probably 1-2 more coming) in 2 years in a lab, lots of leadership, lots of volunteering, not urm but do have friendly smile

Any advice or help is very welcome? Hell, even criticism or a chastizing remark would work (it's not like you could make fun of me in anyway that i already haven't).

There was a non-URM with a 27MCAT that enrolled in Harvard's MSTP in recent years. So the big H is not out of the question for you. Neuronix's benchmark of 34 for "average" MSTP schools (whatever "average" means) is overstated. 34 will get you into any MSTP, so will 30, if you have outstanding potential as a researcher. High MCATs do not guarantee anything: last year, we rejected without interview an Ivy Leaguer with a 42R and a 3.97GPA. This individual had two years of research experience, but based on the letters of recommendation and their research description, we decided that they really did not have outstanding potential to be an independent researcher. All programs like high MCATs (primarily because the NIH uses them along with GPA to assess the quality of the applicant pool), but we are willing to "take a risk" on someone who is "only" in the 65 percentile. GPA is also considered, with 3.5 being a threshold for many programs. However, with grade inflation rampant at many undergrad institutions, programs know that not all GPAs are equal. Your 3.55 Berkeley GPA with a double major might translate into a 3.8 at many institutions named after famous dead white guys.

What MSTPs look at most closely is your research. You need to explain what you have done completely and concisely. Your recommenders need to tell us that you are bright, creative, hard-working, communicate well, get along with others, and are passionate about science. If your recommenders write something like "once in a lifetime student" or "best of the 53 undergrads I've had in the lab" or "functions as a 3rd year grad student", we will probably soil ourselves. Your publications are a bonus; they are nice to have, but if you do not have them it would not be a problem.

In sum, I would say that you should apply to Harvard, UCSD, and whatever other programs that fit your criteria. If your recommenders have great things to say about you, then you should be a strong candidate for all programs.

Good luck.

 

[cluelesspremed]

hey guys...


I did well on both the biological sciences and physical sciences sections (10+) on the mcat this past august but did HORRIBLY (below an 8 😱 ) on the verbal reasoning...


should I even bother applying to MSTPs (even low tiered ones)?

i know medical schools look at the verbal section as indications of blah blah blah.....but what about MSTP...

any insight would be appreciated! thanks guys!!

(if u could PM me i'd appreciate it to or else ill try to find this thread again)

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I got a 9 on my MCAT verbal.

It never came up in my interviews.

And I had this elaborate story/excuse all prepared too...

 

[mdphd2b]

hey guys...


I did well on both the biological sciences and physical sciences sections (10+) on the mcat this past august but did HORRIBLY (below an 8 😱 ) on the verbal reasoning...


should I even bother applying to MSTPs (even low tiered ones)?

i know medical schools look at the verbal section as indications of blah blah blah.....but what about MSTP...

any insight would be appreciated! thanks guys!!

(if u could PM me i'd appreciate it to or else ill try to find this thread again)

Hi there,

I'm a G3 at Pitt Med (5th in MSTP). I applied in '99 with a 33Q MCAT (9V, 11P, 13B). Applied to 27 schools, offered 11 interviews, went to 10, and got into 9.

With that said, <8V may be worrisome. If you could break 9, that would help, so long as you keep the sciences up.
Don't limit yourself to the higher tiered schools. Look at some broader choices. Also, it's good to apply early. The ones that don't want you will say no right away, leaving you with some realistic places to interview at. Good luck!

 

[me.]

mdphd2b, what schools did you apply to?

 

[phillystudent]

I'll throw in a couple cents...

I'm in the combined degree program at Penn and from what I've heard talking to the program director and other faculty I would say undergraduate research experience is by far the most important thing they are looking for. The paper and posters will definitely help to show that you've done extensive lab work. It's also EXTREMELY important that you be able to explain your research intelligently and enthusiastically during interviews. Grades and MCAT scores are obviously important and doing very poorly could prevent you from getting in, but 32 is not that bad. Don't be afraid to apply to any school you're interested in - it can't hurt and it's very likely that you'll get several interviews at even some of the top schools. Just make sure you're ready to impress at interview time.

 

[kiilcancer]

How about a 30 (9v, 11p, 10b, Q)?
I have similar research experience with and GPA is fairly competetive.
Also, is prior service in the Marine Corps helps at all for MSTP?
Thanks

 

[penguinophile]

There was a non-URM with a 27MCAT that enrolled in Harvard's MSTP in recent years. So the big H is not out of the question for you. Neuronix's benchmark of 34 for "average" MSTP schools (whatever "average" means) is overstated. 34 will get you into any MSTP, so will 30, if you have outstanding potential as a researcher. High MCATs do not guarantee anything: last year, we rejected without interview an Ivy Leaguer with a 42R and a 3.97GPA. This individual had two years of research experience, but based on the letters of recommendation and their research description, we decided that they really did not have outstanding potential to be an independent researcher. All programs like high MCATs (primarily because the NIH uses them along with GPA to assess the quality of the applicant pool), but we are willing to "take a risk" on someone who is "only" in the 65 percentile. GPA is also considered, with 3.5 being a threshold for many programs. However, with grade inflation rampant at many undergrad institutions, programs know that not all GPAs are equal. Your 3.55 Berkeley GPA with a double major might translate into a 3.8 at many institutions named after famous dead white guys.

What MSTPs look at most closely is your research. You need to explain what you have done completely and concisely. Your recommenders need to tell us that you are bright, creative, hard-working, communicate well, get along with others, and are passionate about science. If your recommenders write something like "once in a lifetime student" or "best of the 53 undergrads I've had in the lab" or "functions as a 3rd year grad student", we will probably soil ourselves. Your publications are a bonus; they are nice to have, but if you do not have them it would not be a problem.

In sum, I would say that you should apply to Harvard, UCSD, and whatever other programs that fit your criteria. If your recommenders have great things to say about you, then you should be a strong candidate for all programs.

Good luck.

I realize that the numerical part isn't a big deal as long as you are over 30, but I got a 36N, which I am happy with except for the writing sample. Is this something I should worry about a lot, or will I probably have a chance to explain it at an interview? I am pretty sure that I have good recs and I have a year of research experience. Should I be scared?

 

[dl2dp2]

oh my god dude 🙂

i have one word for you: high!!!

seriously this game's hard to predict. shell out the dough and see where you get. Though certain schools, (i.e. UCSF) doesn't even give you a SECONDARY if you are out of state and your GPA's less than a certain numebr (i think 3.8 or something.) IT was a HARD cutoff. I played politics and asked a UChicago alumni who had lunch with me. He's like the director of HIV at SF VA, and he CALLED the director of the admissions office. they sent me a personal LETTER in the end saying that it's all hopeless.

Just another little tidbit in this game I suppose 🙂

I realize that the numerical part isn't a big deal as long as you are over 30, but I got a 36N, which I am happy with except for the writing sample. Is this something I should worry about a lot, or will I probably have a chance to explain it at an interview? I am pretty sure that I have good recs and I have a year of research experience. Should I be scared?

 

[Neuronix]

Neuronix's benchmark of 34 for "average" MSTP schools (whatever "average" means) is overstated.

I agree. I usually say to aim for a 34+. Not getting one is not the end of the world. If your GPA is good and your research is solid, a MCAT of 32 isn't a significant obstacle.

To everyone PMing me recently about MCAT issues or otherwise looking for me, Internal Medicine rotation sucks and the shelf is tomorrow. I'm MIA 😉

 

[PTPoeny]

Don't worry about the writing sample, I got a score similar to yours with a K writing and I was never asked about it. And I got into 3 MSTP programs.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Internal Medicine rotation sucks

Word.

Good luck on the shelf. Work fast. It's long and draining.

 

[iwutitan]

Hi guys! I also need advice regarding my MCAT score. It is lower than any of the practice tests that I have taken so I am retaking it in August (my VR is much lower than PS and BS). I am concerned that admission people would just throw my application away after they see my score and don't even bother to look at the rest. I think my stat for the rest is good with alot of research, some publications and presentations, high GPA, excellent LORs, tons of EC, leadership and volunteering. I am just wondering if anyone knows how the process works. Should I even bother to apply now?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hi guys! I also need advice regarding my MCAT score. It is lower than any of the practice tests that I have taken so I am retaking it in August (my VR is much lower than PS and BS). I am concerned that admission people would just throw my application away after they see my score and don't even bother to look at the rest. I think my stat for the rest is good with alot of research, some publications and presentations, high GPA, excellent LORs, tons of EC, leadership and volunteering. I am just wondering if anyone knows how the process works. Should I even bother to apply now?

I was in the same situation when I applied (albeit almost 8 years ago). My verbal was 9 and my PS & BS scores were considerably higher.

It was all good.

Now, if you got a 5 on your verbal, that's a different story.

 

[chopwoody]

Please don't feel that the following is trying to detail too much of my life but I was in a very similar position a year ago and can see why this is such a difficult time for many of you. I'm no expert but hopefully my experiences will be of help to some of you....

Took MCAT twice 'cause I didn't think scores were high enough the first time, with splits of 12/7/P/10 and 14/4/M/10 on PS/VR/W/BS, respectively. Had GRE scores as well from when I was planning to go to grad school, with verbal there in the 85th %-tile. Quantitative and Analytical scores were >95th. GPA of 3.7 and 3 research projects as an undergrad lasting a year or more; had one paper, a couple posters, and a conference where I presented work. Submitted primary by the end of July (possibly a bit on the late side in retrospect) to 20 schools since I thought casting a net on a wider area was better given my low scores; nearly all secondaries were complete by early October (depending on admissions process). Ended up with 2 MD/PhD interviews at solid schools (i.e. not Penn or WashU but good nevertheless) and was admitted to both.

From talking with admissions folks, it seems that taking the exam the second time and doing worse really killed my chances and that the initial part of the process can be numbers-focused. I spoke with over a dozen schools in an effort to get information I found useful, especially if I had to repeat the process. It was generally noted that I would need to post a verbal score of 9 or more, mainly because they like to use the verbal section as a predictor for success during the first two years of medical school. A 7 or 8 might be ok but it's a bit more nebulous in that territory. Nothing was really mentioned regarding extracurricular or research experiences, letters of recommendation, or personal motivations for pursuing this track. So if you're thinking of retaking the exam, tread carefully. Things might not be as bad as you think they are.

Oh, and regarding the discussion about MCAT scores, I think 34+ is a good goal to have. No need to stress over getting >36. A friend of mine is heading to Tri-I with a 34.

 

[invt]

I realize that the numerical part isn't a big deal as long as you are over 30, but I got a 36N, which I am happy with except for the writing sample. Is this something I should worry about a lot, or will I probably have a chance to explain it at an interview? I am pretty sure that I have good recs and I have a year of research experience. Should I be scared?

Honestly--no one cares about the writing sample. That's why it's a letter and not a number. A 36 is awesome. Congrats.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

ditto.

what the hell is an N anyway?

enuff said.

 

[1Path]

Honestly--no one cares about the writing sample. That's why it's a letter and not a number. A 36 is awesome. Congrats.

I hear folks on SDN saying this, but this past weekend while at a recruting fair for prospecitve medical students, the writing sample wasn't just ignored as I had thought it may be. Med school reps from schools like Duke and WashU seemed to be expecting some coorelation bewteen the 2 scores.

Besides isn't writing a necessary "evil'" of getting a PhD?

 

[PostalWookie]

The writing you do for your thesis will be done in more than in half an hour, and will hopefully be in an area you know something about (not on a random topic). If you have a decent VR score, nobody will give a damn about your writing. If your verbal sucks, a good writing sample won't save you

 

[1Path]

The writing you do for your thesis will be done in more than in half an hour, and will hopefully be in an area you know something about (not on a random topic)

.
But if you can't write a decent story in 30 minutes, how difficult will completing a thesis be? Also, I know at the school where I completed my Master's, the PhD students had written as well as oral exams which were timed on areas not necessarily related to their research

If you have a decent VR score, nobody will give a damn about your writing.

From my personal expereince this past weekend, having killed the writing section gave my decent verbal score a boost. So for some having a good verbal score with a good writing score DOES help. Besides since when has doing well in something NOT meant a dam thing?? 😕

 

[paramus]

I don't remember the exact context, but I do know that the writing section came up in one of my interviews somewhere. I think the interviewer was saying something about grouping certain letter scores together (T=S=R is one tier, etc.). I wish it didn't matter because I don't personally like the MCAT writing section format, but it probably does to some extent - not like the other three, but don't write it off entirely.