McGill Med School

[operationivy]

I am an American undergrad applying to med school in both the U.S. and Canada. I have heard great things about McGill and Montreal. I have seen the residency match list from McGill to both programs in the U.S. and Canada and it is quite impressive. The school is quickly becoming my top choice. Just curious what others thought.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[pathres04]

This is a great school. There will be a difference for you coming from the US. The hospitals are getting a little old. The training is wonderful and you would love it. The city itself has a lot to keep you entertained (when you have a few minutes post-call, that is). I highly recommend them.

 

[trustwomen]

I am an American undergrad applying to med school in both the U.S. and Canada. I have heard great things about McGill and Montreal. I have seen the residency match list from McGill to both programs in the U.S. and Canada and it is quite impressive. The school is quickly becoming my top choice. Just curious what others thought.

It was my first choice, I'm in first year, I like it so far. There are some issues of course, but overall I'm happy. I do have some American friends (I'm a local) who are disappointed that they chose McGill however. McGill is, according to them, behind the times pedagogically, and disorganized compared to many US schools. They would tell you to avoid it like the plague, they are looking to transfer out. But I don't agree with that assessment - there's no place I'd rather be.

But me, I like lecture-based learning (don't think I'd like PBL). I love that the lectures are recorded and placed online along with the powerpoints. I love getting a pack of course notes at the beginning of each unit, and separating them into my own little themes and binding them. Most of the professors are fine, and a significant minority of them are great.

I am playing hooky from school today, I need a break. But that's a med school thing in general, as far as I can tell, and not a McGill thing. (We had the long weekend off after a huge exam, but I didn't get to enjoy it - I had to work all weekend). Also, pass/fail means that I don't have to kill myself to get top grades in order to get a good residency. I won't wind up in the top 10% of the class (dean's list), but I'll probably still get the residency I want. (I'm not a derm gunner or anything, I'm thinking internal, EM or maybe family).

And, of course, Montreal is an amazing city. My family is from here and although I was raised elsewhere, I wanted to live here since I was 15. I only managed to move here four years ago at 26, and once I got into McGill I could finally buy a home and plan to stay forever.

So, I guess it depends on who you talk to.

Lately however, there has been unrest, the specialists in the province have gone on strike and it is hurting the clinical rotations. That is a Quebec thing and not specifically a McGill thing (it actually affects UdeM and Laval more than us), and yes the health system here needs some work and some reform. We imagine that it will be resolved soon.

If you have any more questions, you can pm me. For the other side of the coin, you can check out a thread started by kattyboomboom in the allopathic med student forum. Good luck in your decision-making!

 

[ssc396]

Lately however, there has been unrest, the specialists in the province have gone on strike and it is hurting the clinical rotations. That is a Quebec thing and not specifically a McGill thing (it actually affects UdeM and Laval more than us), and yes the health system here needs some work and some reform. We imagine that it will be resolved soon.

How much is this affecting you guys? Have many classes etc... been cancelled? I've heard all 3rd/4th year clerkships have been suspended and this might mean that the class of 2007 will not be able to graduate.

 

[trustwomen]

How much is this affecting you guys? Have many classes etc... been cancelled? I've heard all 3rd/4th year clerkships have been suspended and this might mean that the class of 2007 will not be able to graduate.

I'm in first year, and we have had little effect so far (a few cancelled classes, nothing serious). The third years are being hit hard though, and the fourth years less than the third years but are still affected. I don't think it will wind up costing them a year though, there will be back-to-work legislation passed soon enough. And we know the specialists aren't willing to do anything that will get them fined or arrested, that's why they are getting the med students to do their protesting for them. I still say if the specialists used actual, banned pressure tactics and a half-dozen of them wound up in jail as a consequence, that would create much more of a public outcry. No mistake, bill 37 is just terrible, violates civil rights left and right, completely unconstitutional. Not the salary part - the forbidding of pressure tactics part. However, the specialists won't just challenge it head-on and dare the govt to throw them in jail for protesting/striking (then people would realize, wow, what a draconian law, we have political prisoners now?). Instead they do what is legal for them to do, which is stop teaching. And so the gov't says they will just make teaching an essential service (which is a joke, they aren't even paid to teach). But once that law goes through, and it is illegal to not teach, they will go back to teaching. They won't stand up and go to jail. (They may leave the province though).

I hope they come to a resolution soon. I am torn on the salary issue - I do see the specialists' point about recruitment etc., but at the same time they are making so much money, and aren't the only ones underpaid (our GPs are underpaid too, and our nurses make so little it's shameful). And 80% of people in Quebec have an income of less than 30K....

 

[degoo_]

Hi trustwomen,

could you run down an average first year week at McGill? I also applied there and its probably my #1 choice too.
Do you know if the medical school gives tours? I'm going to be coming by this winter break.

 

[trustwomen]

Hi trustwomen,

could you run down an average first year week at McGill? I also applied there and its probably my #1 choice too.
Do you know if the medical school gives tours? I'm going to be coming by this winter break.

Hmmm. Let me think. School hours (by school I mean lecture, lab, small group, etc.) are five days a week, about 6-7 hours/day (usually starting sometime between 8:30 and 10 am, and finishing between 2:30 and 4 pm. This includes an hour for lunch. The curriculum is unit based, each unit is organ or systems based (just finished unit 2, which is resp/cardio/renal and is considered the hardest unit of the year). All the school time is in one of two buildings, the McIntyre (ugly building, nice lecture hall) or the Strathcona (lovely building, cramped lecture hall). Small groups are in the former, labs are in the latter. We have two kinds of labs, anatomy (cadavers) and histology (microscopes). Part of the curriculum is small group learning, but most of it is magisterial lecturing (which I actually prefer). Exams (midterms or unit finals) happen every three weeks or so, meaning you can't really let yourself fall behind. They are multiple-choice exams, some units are harder than others. We also have practical exams in anatomy (identify stuff on cadavers, know embryological origins, etc.) and multiple-choice exams in histology; these two are always on the same day as the final.

As for home study, I know people all along the spectrum - from studying till midnight every night after class and 10 hours/day on weekends, through skipping lecture and listening at home (lecture notes are given out at the beginning of each unit, plus they are online, and the lectures are taped and available online). I sort of slack, as I have a part-time job and a house; basically I study with a friend semiregularly, read up on stuff at home, and try to make it to lectures (lately I have been pretty delinquent). My non-class study hours are about 15 a week, maybe double that in the week before an exam (which, recall, is one out of every three weeks). I haven't had to study on weekends yet. I think I am in the minority though; I certainly don't know anyone else with a job, for one.

I don't know if they give tours, I guess so. You could ask admissions. Winter break is about when they will be interviewing the out-of-province people, I guess, and they do tours for them.

All in all, I'm enjoying myself and doing OK. I won't be on the dean's list, but I get about the class average on every exam, give or take 5%. It's a great fit for me; I'm not sure I could survive PBL without killing somebody.

 

[degoo_]

THank you very much! That's some good information. Also, when are the breaks (winter/reading week/summer)?

I think I'd be part of the same minority as you. That is, I don't usually study excessively. But most people on this forum say that that is the absolute norm. Its good to hear that its not always the case!

Good luck with the year! Hope to see you next year.

 

[degoo_]

Trustwomen, do you mind posting your stats when you applied?

 

[trustwomen]

Trustwomen, do you mind posting your stats when you applied?

I had a 35S MCAT and a 3.74 GPA (at app. time - my graduating GPA wound up being just over 3.7, I got some B+'s in my last semester). I was an in-province MDCM applicant though, it's not as competitive a pool as the out-of-province people.

Breaks? We got the US thanksgiving weekend off (4 days) and we have from the 21st of dec. till 2nd of january (inclusively) I think. Two months off next summer, a month here and there after that (You can get the complete curriculum on their website).

There isn't a whole lot of time off. There is a three-day weekend sometime in February that I plan to extend by not coming back until wednesday or something. (Havana here I come!)

 

[trustwomen]

I think I'd be part of the same minority as you. That is, I don't usually study excessively. But most people on this forum say that that is the absolute norm. Its good to hear that its not always the case!

Good luck with the year! Hope to see you next year.

I checked your profile; if you pulled off a 3.9 GPA at UofT without studying excessively, I think you'd do just fine with the material here. There's a lot of it, but I presume you have a good memory (it's my strong point too). That's a great MCAT too, BTW.

I also wish you the best of luck, I'm sure you'll get in just about everywhere.

 

[degoo_]

Thanks for all the information. Very much appreciated!
I'm actually considered in-province for McGill too since i'm from Quebec, which is one of the main reasons its my top choice.

 

[jbish]

I'm a McGill 4th year med student, US citizen. I'm applying for a competitive specialty throughout the US. To round out my story let's take a peek back 4 years. I had a 33Q Mcat, 3.6 gpa, and 6 US school acceptances + McGill. My main decision was between Tufts/University Southern California and McGill. I studied Spanish in grade/highschool/college. I balked at 36,000$/yr tuition and decided on McGill. I agree McGill is a great school and I've enjoyed my training here and I think it has REALLY prepared me for intern year/residency. That being said I would not come here again as a US citizen unless:

1) you want to do residency in New England or Canada (the rest of the US just doesn't recognize McGill for what it is and assumes you are a FMG which is really annoying)

2) #1 and/or want to go into a specialty that was not competitive for the match (hey, if the hospitals are already taking FMGs to fill spots, whether they think you're an FMG or not won't matter)

3) you know French or really really want to know French. (yes, classes are in English, but there are enough patients/staff who would prefer their only means of communication be in francais to make life in the hospital challenging. Well, more challenging than it is for everyone else who is bilingual)

McGill's hard enough to get into. You shouldn't have to spend the rest of your life having people second-guess your education. I've had people on the interview trail ask me my med-school application stats...like what my Mcat was, my gpa, what US schools I'd been accepted to...before they would decide that I was "good" enough for them.

I'm hopping on a plane now (ah, the interview trail) but I'll be back online in a few hours if anyone has more questions/comments on this post.

 

[degoo_]

Thanks for the info. Luckily, I plan to stay in Canada, so McGill should be a good choice. I'm happy that there is a little application of french, I need to practice much more.

How are the hospitals where you did your clerkship? Were you given much hands-on experience, or were you mostly a spectator? Which clerkship was your favourite?

Thanks

 

[jbish]

How are the hospitals where you did your clerkship? Were you given much hands-on experience, or were you mostly a spectator? Which clerkship was your favourite?

The hospitals are old-many are forgoing (foregoing?) renovations in hopes that the new "superhospital" will actually open some time this century (dates have been pushed back since I've been a student from 2007 to 2010 and now I think they're estimating 2013). The General and Vic have a PACS system for radiology, but the Jewish is pretty behind in terms of online capabilities. Labs are online; vitals are not. Charting/discharge summaries are handwritten or dictated, depending on the hospital and service. Other than that, they're in pretty good shape for their age. Some floors have A/C, some do not. Some ORs are renovated/updated, some are not.

My third year of clerkship I was treated at nearly the same level as interns in the U.S. (from what I've seen on rotations in the US and watching my mom, a PGY-1 in family medicine currently) This is great for hands-on experience...and probably the highlight of my medical training at McGill. I was first assist on a microscopic ulnar digital nerve repair as a Med3 (the PGY-4 was the primary surgeon, the attending didn't even scrub in). That being said, of course my surgery rotation was the best...however, you're talking to a person doing the match for general surgery, so bias should be expected.
You're really included as part of the medical team as a med student at McGill. Some fields could really use some more residents but haven't been approved for them yet by the Quebec government, so they need the "man"power (with 62% of my class being female and the percentages of females higher in the other French med schools, this should be taken as a gender neutral term) med students are able to provide to help run the floors. Of course, we're also learning and things I'm sure are a bit slower, but I think the residents appreciate the help we can provide.

 

[DrZeke]

I'm in first year, and we have had little effect so far (a few cancelled classes, nothing serious). The third years are being hit hard though, and the fourth years less than the third years but are still affected. I don't think it will wind up costing them a year though, there will be back-to-work legislation passed soon enough. And we know the specialists aren't willing to do anything that will get them fined or arrested, that's why they are getting the med students to do their protesting for them. I still say if the specialists used actual, banned pressure tactics and a half-dozen of them wound up in jail as a consequence, that would create much more of a public outcry. No mistake, bill 37 is just terrible, violates civil rights left and right, completely unconstitutional. Not the salary part - the forbidding of pressure tactics part. However, the specialists won't just challenge it head-on and dare the govt to throw them in jail for protesting/striking (then people would realize, wow, what a draconian law, we have political prisoners now?). Instead they do what is legal for them to do, which is stop teaching. And so the gov't says they will just make teaching an essential service (which is a joke, they aren't even paid to teach). But once that law goes through, and it is illegal to not teach, they will go back to teaching. They won't stand up and go to jail. (They may leave the province though).

I hope they come to a resolution soon. I am torn on the salary issue - I do see the specialists' point about recruitment etc., but at the same time they are making so much money, and aren't the only ones underpaid (our GPs are underpaid too, and our nurses make so little it's shameful). And 80% of people in Quebec have an income of less than 30K....

Ah...reasoning why I, as a native montrealer, am struggling with whether or not to apply to McGill this upcoming year. Already have an american acceptance, and have heard several disconcerning things about McGill. I've known all along the amazing 'clinical experiences', but one of the schools I was accepted to already has very interesting opportunities where I would be first assisting as a 2nd and maybe 1st year med student. As far as I am aware, McGill can be quite depressing during 1st and 2nd year as they have virtually no patient contact compared to let's say UdeM or other schools in the US that have their "reputation".

As I suspect...McGill is riding on their rep as usual...as it was for my undergrad. Mentality = throw lots of info at the students. test them hard, and then when they happen to be at par or better than most american students during externships and electives, TAKE THE CREDIT...

Ha...good old McGill. Don't be so certain, my friend, that they will come to a resolution anytime soon. The government has been holding on to their defunct healthcare system for as long as I can remember...

 

[jbish]

Supposedly the issues with the FMSQ and government have ended, at least as far as medical students are concerned. I'm on an away-elective right now in the U.S. but from what I gather from the emails, it's "back to usual" and I'm supposed to start my clinic next week when the 4th year students return to school.

I think the education at McGill is certainly worth the money you pay for it. Can you get a better education somewhere else? Certainly. Can you get a crappier education somewhere else? Certainly.

And, I personally found it great not having to deal with patients as a 1st and 2nd year student, but I'm a future surgeon and I find it pointless to waste people's time unless I can offer them something. I did see a lot of things with regards to real people as a first year, and second year you are in the hospitals full time starting in January, which is a rarity in the U.S. system. My first year I had a patient I met with throughout the year for our ethics/physicianship course; I shadowed 3rd and 4th year med students and residents in the hospitals; I did clinical research in adolescent gynecology the summer between 1st and 2nd year. And, we had to meet all of these patients for our physicianship course to "make us better people"- palliative care day, a patient having surgery, an obstetrics patient, a cancer patient, a patient with an eating disorder, a man who had become a quadriplegic in his 30s, etc etc etc. Don't think you'll be locked away in Martin Amphitheater all day every day...sure, that's a big component, but there is more to life as a 1st and 2nd year med student than lectures and small group.

 

[DrZeke]

Supposedly the issues with the FMSQ and government have ended, at least as far as medical students are concerned. I'm on an away-elective right now in the U.S. but from what I gather from the emails, it's "back to usual" and I'm supposed to start my clinic next week when the 4th year students return to school.

I think the education at McGill is certainly worth the money you pay for it. Can you get a better education somewhere else? Certainly. Can you get a crappier education somewhere else? Certainly.

And, I personally found it great not having to deal with patients as a 1st and 2nd year student, but I'm a future surgeon and I find it pointless to waste people's time unless I can offer them something. I did see a lot of things with regards to real people as a first year, and second year you are in the hospitals full time starting in January, which is a rarity in the U.S. system. My first year I had a patient I met with throughout the year for our ethics/physicianship course; I shadowed 3rd and 4th year med students and residents in the hospitals; I did clinical research in adolescent gynecology the summer between 1st and 2nd year. And, we had to meet all of these patients for our physicianship course to "make us better people"- palliative care day, a patient having surgery, an obstetrics patient, a cancer patient, a patient with an eating disorder, a man who had become a quadriplegic in his 30s, etc etc etc. Don't think you'll be locked away in Martin Amphitheater all day every day...sure, that's a big component, but there is more to life as a 1st and 2nd year med student than lectures and small group.

Thanks so much for your reply. I completely ripped up a thread on pre-allopathic board, because from what I heard from friends there was virtually no patient contact. I'm also not sure what's going on because of the situation.

I think I will apply, but I still want to consider doing residency in the US. Is this a mistake? You mentioned it's difficult to pursue residency options in the US outside of New England or if they are very competitive. I have debt from graduate school in the US - not much 20k - and I'm sure I could pay it off even if I stayed in Canada to practice. But, if I go to an American school, the debt will be so large, that I will probably work in the US for a while and then decided where I want to live.

I am declared as a Quebec resident...so at least that's on my side, but I'm going to have to have my program director write me a hell of a letter about my SMP, because I doubt McGill gives two turds about an SMP (special master's program like they have georgetown/BU) that I did in the US. They told me to do a second undergrad last year and I almost hung up on them It's amazing, I have a full year of a 3.7 at McGill and then a full year of a 3.92 in my Masters which parallels the first year of med school in the US.

I guess I'll give it a shot. Oh well, rejection is never too hard when you're sitting on an acceptance.

 

[jbish]

Oh yeah, those always sounded like cool programs (I knew someone who did the BU one and someone else who did something like it at Columbia.)- I doubt McGill would give you credit for any of the courses (we have a guy with a phd in histology/anatomy/something like that and he still had to take anatomy and histo with us...easy A, right?)..but you'll be really comfortable with the material!
I agree about the US school thing- it'd be pretty hard to pay back all that debt without working at least for a little while in the US. And, it'll be easier (although who knows how much/to what extenet) to get a residency in the US if you go to school in the US. You have such little debt now though- 20K plus, what, the $6000/yr tuition will be as a Quebec resident...even with living expenses/fees added on top, you'll come out of school in a lot less debt than if you go anywhere State-side.
And you're right..it's a lot easier to deal with the possibility of rejection if you're already accepted somewhere else! You can just thumb your nose at them. Good luck w/ the rest of applications.

 

[DrZeke]

Oh yeah, those always sounded like cool programs (I knew someone who did the BU one and someone else who did something like it at Columbia.)- I doubt McGill would give you credit for any of the courses (we have a guy with a phd in histology/anatomy/something like that and he still had to take anatomy and histo with us...easy A, right?)..but you'll be really comfortable with the material!
I agree about the US school thing- it'd be pretty hard to pay back all that debt without working at least for a little while in the US. And, it'll be easier (although who knows how much/to what extenet) to get a residency in the US if you go to school in the US. You have such little debt now though- 20K plus, what, the $6000/yr tuition will be as a Quebec resident...even with living expenses/fees added on top, you'll come out of school in a lot less debt than if you go anywhere State-side.
And you're right..it's a lot easier to deal with the possibility of rejection if you're already accepted somewhere else! You can just thumb your nose at them. Good luck w/ the rest of applications.

Hey thanks for the boost of confidence. I am in the process of applying . Just have to get my letters of recommendation together.

 

[ashahdc]

1) you want to do residency in New England or Canada (the rest of the US just doesn't recognize McGill for what it is and assumes you are a FMG which is really annoying)

I'm at med school in NY (Einstein) right now, was rejected from McGill (my top choice). i don't understand how you could say this, especially if you've looked at their match statistics? I've come across several Mcgill grads in the super competitive specialties here in NYC. i think this may just be your experience...Mcgill highly regarded, just check out the match results...wanna trade places

 

[DrZeke]

I'm at med school in NY (Einstein) right now, was rejected from McGill (my top choice). i don't understand how you could say this, especially if you've looked at their match statistics? I've come across several Mcgill grads in the super competitive specialties here in NYC. i think this may just be your experience...Mcgill highly regarded, just check out the match results...wanna trade places

I think what jbish is saying is that it's competitive in CERTAIN STATES and that you probably have to work extra hard to match competitively in other states....

Maybe?

 

[jbish]

Yes, I guess I should have included New York State in my blanket "New England" comment. And, I never said it's impossible to match into a competitive specialty- I just think it's more difficult coming from McGill going for a location that is not the northeast. I've interviewed in the northeast, midwest, south, and california. In the northeast, no one second-guessed my education. In the south, people thought Canada was equivalent to the Caribbean. In the midwest, people were just very confused- oh, McGill, that's a good school. Are you Canadian? In California- people don't even recognize my undergrad school much less my medical school.

Of course, these are broad generalizations...the older men in the field of surgery tend to know more than current medical students or young attendings/residents.

I just know from experience talking to program directors at various schools that it's easier to get past the secretaries/admin assistants who are screening applications if you have a US school's name on file. If you are in the northeast, this isn't so much the case...but if you're from California/Nevada/Arizona and you want to go back there, you should think long and hard before going to McGill if you want a competitive specialty. This is all null and void for fellowships/not-as-competitive specialties as far as I can see.

 

[DrZeke]

Yes, I guess I should have included New York State in my blanket "New England" comment. And, I never said it's impossible to match into a competitive specialty- I just think it's more difficult coming from McGill going for a location that is not the northeast. I've interviewed in the northeast, midwest, south, and california. In the northeast, no one second-guessed my education. In the south, people thought Canada was equivalent to the Caribbean. In the midwest, people were just very confused- oh, McGill, that's a good school. Are you Canadian? In California- people don't even recognize my undergrad school much less my medical school.

Of course, these are broad generalizations...the older men in the field of surgery tend to know more than current medical students or young attendings/residents.

I just know from experience talking to program directors at various schools that it's easier to get past the secretaries/admin assistants who are screening applications if you have a US school's name on file. If you are in the northeast, this isn't so much the case...but if you're from California/Nevada/Arizona and you want to go back there, you should think long and hard before going to McGill if you want a competitive specialty. This is all null and void for fellowships/not-as-competitive specialties as far as I can see.

jbish, I agree with your opinion, because of my experiences as a medical school applicant who went to McGill for undergrad. In the South, people are clueless about McGill and the only people who recognize it are ones who are OLDER in the field and have migrated from the Northeast. I am thinking that if I want to match into the Northeastern United States it will help me to go to med school in a urban American med school wherever, or a Northestern school. Maybe even McGill...

 

[cool_vkb]

Just curious, how hard is it to get in a Canadian Medical School.

In India or Pakistan, there are special number of alloted seats for international students. And international students just have to pay high fees and accepted very easily (in comparision to native population who study for free or low fees).

Is there something like that in canada. or all applicants are considered equal and face same amount of hardship while applying.

 

[akinf]

Getting into medical school is a bit notorious for being quite difficult. Its not difficult to the extent that its impossible, its just that there are waaay more applicants than spots, and expectations of applicants can be quite high. So, it is difficult in the sense that, generally speaking, if you want to get in, you need to dedicate a couple years of interest to that endeavour before you apply.

 

[jbish]

The stats I hear thrown around are 1 out of every 6 applicants gets accepted to medical school in Canada, whereas 1 out of every 3 applicants gets accepted in the US. This, of course, are those people who actually finish the application process every year- got the letters of rec, took the mcat, paid the fees, did the interviews.

Most Canadian schools do not have any spaces for international students. A few say they do "on paper" but in actuality do not really take international students (for example, I know one US citizen who was accepted to UofT. Supposedly McMaster "on paper" has spots for internationals but hasn't actually accepted one in a long time- close to a decade?). McGill has around 10 spots "reserved" for international students every year. That doesn't mean they have to go to internationals...just that they can take up to that many. The other Quebec schools also have a small quota, but never end up filling these spots so often they "trade" their spots to McGill so McGill ends up with more than 10 int'l students each year. The application process is the same difficulty-level for internationals...the only difference is int'l students end up paying tuition equivalent to what the Quebec government pays for Quebec students...so this year I'm paying ~18000$ whereas my Quebec counterparts are paying ~4000$. At McGill it is even more difficult for out-of-province students to be accepted- they interview around 50 out of province applicants a year (all with amazing stats- much higher than a 3.5 gpa and/or 30 mcat) and there are only 5 or so spots.

 

[kattyboomboom]

A couple of quick thoughts:

1. Trustwomen has a wonderful perspective on some of the issues, so I would encourage you to read her posts. She is really happy at McGill though I do have to add a little disclaimer, which is that trustwomen is most likely the most intelligent person in our class and consequently, is nowhere near as crazed as I am.

2. Having a week off for break has finally given me time to think about the curriculum. I actually spent some time in the hospital I worked at in my home town this week and it was amazing how much I've learned just in the first semester. This alone has sort of changed my feeling about slaving away these last four months in the library.

3. I really have to spend more time appreciating montreal. It's a phenomenal city.

4. Mcgill is not cushy. It's a socialist healthcare system with all the pitfalls of publicly funded institutions. But on that note, I do appreciate that it's public, and recognize that there are some serious issues at the school, but these are to some extent limitations imposed by Quebec provincial rulings. Crowding is an example--the government has mandated that schools up the number of students and the class size has risen by 50+ students over the last 5 years (also at other canadian universities). Now, the AMA made similar attempts in the states though private med schools only had to increase class sizes by about 10% (this is what I was told at my RUsh University interview).

5. Don't pay attention to tuition!!! You're going to take out money no matter where you go. Saving $10,000 a year might not be worth your happiness. IT is actually more expensive for me to go to McGill than my state school. HOwever, I couldn't see myself staying in my hometown so my intent has never been to save money.

6. Know the ins and outs of mcgill, decide what you want in a school. HEre's some points to direct you: Are you looking for a very supportive and involved administration or a more hands-off approach? Do you want a small or big class size? Do you want to be in an urban area? Are you looking for heavy clinical training? Do you want a PBL or lecture based curriculum? Have you thought about what kind of student body you are looking for, older or younger, or do you even care? These are just a couple of thoughts. THen ask students at your interview how they feel about these issues. I would say that i'm happy with our units-based curriculum. There are some organizational issues that leave a bit more to be desired but apparently, this happens at other places too. I am still trying to come to terms with this. haha.

Okay, maybe this was helpful...

 

[operationivy]

I'm a McGill 4th year med student, US citizen. I'm applying for a competitive specialty throughout the US. To round out my story let's take a peek back 4 years. I had a 33Q Mcat, 3.6 gpa, and 6 US school acceptances + McGill. My main decision was between Tufts/University Southern California and McGill. I studied Spanish in grade/highschool/college. I balked at 36,000$/yr tuition and decided on McGill. I agree McGill is a great school and I've enjoyed my training here and I think it has REALLY prepared me for intern year/residency. That being said I would not come here again as a US citizen unless:

1) you want to do residency in New England or Canada (the rest of the US just doesn't recognize McGill for what it is and assumes you are a FMG which is really annoying)

2) #1 and/or want to go into a specialty that was not competitive for the match (hey, if the hospitals are already taking FMGs to fill spots, whether they think you're an FMG or not won't matter)

3) you know French or really really want to know French. (yes, classes are in English, but there are enough patients/staff who would prefer their only means of communication be in francais to make life in the hospital challenging. Well, more challenging than it is for everyone else who is bilingual)

McGill's hard enough to get into. You shouldn't have to spend the rest of your life having people second-guess your education. I've had people on the interview trail ask me my med-school application stats...like what my Mcat was, my gpa, what US schools I'd been accepted to...before they would decide that I was "good" enough for them.

I'm hopping on a plane now (ah, the interview trail) but I'll be back online in a few hours if anyone has more questions/comments on this post.

What specialty are you applying for? I am surprised to hear that people are not recognizing the name of the school. I am from California (born here). I went to high school in orange county and now I am at Berkeley. I have always heard of McGill and in fact was encouraged to apply to undergrad by my high school advisor. As a Berkeley undergrad, I know lots of people who want to go to McGill for med school. Many of the California state med schools are not that well recognized on the east coast but McGill seems to be very well recognized nationally (although maybe not as much in the "deep" midwest-but lots of east and west coast schools may not be that well recognized there). I am thinking that if I want to do a residency on the east coast (some of the big Boston or NY programs) it may be better to go to McGill than SOME of the cali state schools (obviosuly UCSF and UCLA are national and international powerhouses). William Osler (a McGill med grad and professor) established the modern department of medicine at Hopkins. Mcgill is also a great bargain....not that much debt after graduation which in my mind is a great plus (obviously!).

 

[trustwomen]

Aw, katty, you're too sweet. I'm happy to see that you're feeling better about school. (Please note OP, I'm actually pretty ordinary among our med school class - bright, sure, but we're a bright bunch, and KBB is no slouch herself.)

OP, do your research, think about your learning styles, etc. Honestly, if med school is your dream you'll probably like it most anywhere. You'll be constantly bolstered by the little "wow, I'm in med school!" mood/self-esteem boost that I, for one, get whenever I think about it. As for the reputation, I'm Canadian and will be staying in Canada, so no issues here - and not much to add on that topic. I myself have yet to meet an American doctor that doesn't know McGill. (And the reaction is uniformly positive).

 

[DrZeke]

Aw, katty, you're too sweet. I'm happy to see that you're feeling better about school. (Please note OP, I'm actually pretty ordinary among our med school class - bright, sure, but we're a bright bunch, and KBB is no slouch herself.)

OP, do your research, think about your learning styles, etc. Honestly, if med school is your dream you'll probably like it most anywhere. You'll be constantly bolstered by the little "wow, I'm in med school!" mood/self-esteem boost that I, for one, get whenever I think about it. As for the reputation, I'm Canadian and will be staying in Canada, so no issues here - and not much to add on that topic. I myself have yet to meet an American doctor that doesn't know McGill. (And the reaction is uniformly positive).

Hey, just applied to McGill, but I think I'll probably be one of the 60 in-province applicants taht doesn't get an interview. I don't want to have to leave my family for what will seem like an eternity, so maybe the adcom will take mercy on me, but I doubt it... I don't think they are a fan of people who did something different - ie: SMP that isn't in the Northeast.

In terms of what you said above. McGill is an awesome school, but again I'm not entirely surprised with what JBish has said, because you are not necessarily correct. Perhaps in your personal experiences, doctors you've met know of McGill (they probably lived in the NE at one point - GUARANTEED), MOST of the doctors I've met in the SouthEast know nothing of it. The ones that worked in the Northeast for a period of time were quite aware that McGill provides a good education, but those that have never ventured North were clueless. Even my friend who is at Harvard has found that there are plenty of people who gazed at him with blank stares when he mentioned that he went to McGill. This doesn't say that the school is bad, because for the dollar value it's great, but I'm just bringing some new information forward.

 

[trustwomen]

Hey, just applied to McGill, but I think I'll probably be one of the 60 in-province applicants taht doesn't get an interview. I don't want to have to leave my family for what will seem like an eternity, so maybe the adcom will take mercy on me, but I doubt it... I don't think they are a fan of people who did something different - ie: SMP that isn't in the Northeast.

In terms of what you said above. McGill is an awesome school, but again I'm not entirely surprised with what JBish has said, because you are not necessarily correct. Perhaps in your personal experiences, doctors you've met know of McGill (they probably lived in the NE at one point - GUARANTEED), MOST of the doctors I've met in the SouthEast know nothing of it. The ones that worked in the Northeast for a period of time were quite aware that McGill provides a good education, but those that have never ventured North were clueless. Even my friend who is at Harvard has found that there are plenty of people who gazed at him with blank stares when he mentioned that he went to McGill. This doesn't say that the school is bad, because for the dollar value it's great, but I'm just bringing some new information forward.

Good luck, I hope you get an interview! I don't know how many applicants there will be this year - I think the Ontario double cohort is still echoing and it might be high - last year just over 50% of applicants got interviews, about 115 got shut out.

You're right though, Canadian schools in general don't like people who did something different. I'm one of them; had to get another undergrad degree to get into med school - McGill doesn't look at graduate work. Is McGill your first choice if you get in? (The US is expensive, no?)

And yes, most of the doctors I know are either from the Northeast or have traveled extensively (i.e. know about a variety of regions/programs).

 

[DrZeke]

Good luck, I hope you get an interview! I don't know how many applicants there will be this year - I think the Ontario double cohort is still echoing and it might be high - last year just over 50% of applicants got interviews, about 115 got shut out.

You're right though, Canadian schools in general don't like people who did something different. I'm one of them; had to get another undergrad degree to get into med school - McGill doesn't look at graduate work. Is McGill your first choice if you get in? (The US is expensive, no?)

And yes, most of the doctors I know are either from the Northeast or have traveled extensively (i.e. know about a variety of regions/programs).

Double cohort won't affect me, I'm a Quebec resident. So, my chances are like the numbers I posted for in-province in 2006:

180 applicants
120 were interviewed
75 were accepted

My Master's is an SMP. I felt that an SMP would grant me admission to more programs in North America, rather than doing a second undergrad. I figured the only thing that would help me with would be McGill... So far the SMP has proven helpful in the US, and it is expensive, and if I have to go I will be getting loans .

McGill would probably be my first choice, just because of the 20k/4 year tuition and because my parents own property that I could live in, and I could spend more time with my family than if I went far away to school. I don't think the admissions office really gives a **** about stuff like that tho... I swear, people are still telling me I could have gotten in out of CEGEP and been a med-P...I just could never bring myself to apply at that stage in my life due to experience with medicine being limited to volunteering. I also didn't want to lose out on my undergrad. I guess undergrad turned out to be a double edged sword, because of my not so stellar performance... Hopefully my SMP which paralleled first year medical school will be something they look at... Probably not.

 

[trustwomen]

Double cohort won't affect me, I'm a Quebec resident. So, my chances are like the numbers I posted for in-province in 2006:

180 applicants
120 were interviewed
75 were accepted

My Master's is an SMP. I felt that an SMP would grant me admission to more programs in North America, rather than doing a second undergrad. I figured the only thing that would help me with would be McGill... So far the SMP has proven helpful in the US, and it is expensive, and if I have to go I will be getting loans .

McGill would probably be my first choice, just because of the 20k/4 year tuition and because my parents own property that I could live in, and I could spend more time with my family than if I went far away to school. I don't think the admissions office really gives a **** about stuff like that tho... I swear, people are still telling me I could have gotten in out of CEGEP and been a med-P...I just could never bring myself to apply at that stage in my life due to experience with medicine being limited to volunteering. I also didn't want to lose out on my undergrad. I guess undergrad turned out to be a double edged sword, because of my not so stellar performance... Hopefully my SMP which paralleled first year medical school will be something they look at... Probably not.

Dunno where you got those numbers from, there were 250 applicants last year, up from the usual 180. Interviewed 135. (That was my app cycle, believe me, I got all my data straight from the admissions office.) And that WAS in-province, remember you're in-province just by being born here, so we got the "reborn quebecois" - never really lived here, been in Ontario for the past decade, but can't get into med school in ON so... apply to McGill, legitimately submitting birth certificate as the required proof for "in-province" status. The double cohort does affect you. I suspect the extra 70 were mostly disappointed Ontarians.

I hope they do look at your SMP, we need more non-trad students at McGill. I suspect they won't use it to calculate your GPA though... I hope you gave them a separate letter asking them to, explaining your case! I wrote such a letter asking them to disregard my previous degrees and they did. (Though apparently it always was their practice to only look at the last undergrad degree).

You will be OK either way, you already got in in the US. That wasn't an option for me. Where did you get in in the States?

 

[DrZeke]

Dunno where you got those numbers from, there were 250 applicants last year, up from the usual 180. Interviewed 135. (That was my app cycle, believe me, I got all my data straight from the admissions office.) And that WAS in-province, remember you're in-province just by being born here, so we got the "reborn quebecois" - never really lived here, been in Ontario for the past decade, but can't get into med school in ON so... apply to McGill, legitimately submitting birth certificate as the required proof for "in-province" status. The double cohort does affect you. I suspect the extra 70 were mostly disappointed Ontarians.

I hope they do look at your SMP, we need more non-trad students at McGill. I suspect they won't use it to calculate your GPA though... I hope you gave them a separate letter asking them to, explaining your case! I wrote such a letter asking them to disregard my previous degrees and they did. (Though apparently it always was their practice to only look at the last undergrad degree).

You will be OK either way, you already got in in the US. That wasn't an option for me. Where did you get in in the States?

University of Miami is where I got in and I'm waitlisted at 2 other schools.

In terms of a letter, I asked my program director to write them a letter explaining my SMP's relevance to medical school. Do you think I should write an additional letter? I can still submit it in writing, since my file has yet to go under review and probably won't until 2 weeks from now, since today was the deadline.

The numbers are ones that I got from the admissions office today in person .

She actually told me those were the numbers for In-Province with UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES. No Med-P's were included in my numbers...were their med-p's included in yours?? Maybe her numbers were people who had degrees from Quebec Universities?

 

[Acherona]

I'd just like to point out that most name-recognition is regional, including American schools. I just glanced at the list of 125 medical schools and I honestly never heard of a bunch of the schools -- Morehouse in Georgia or the Uniformed Services U of the Health Sci F Edward Hebert SOM. There are some smaller, good schools in the Northeast that I wouldn't be surprised if were not as well known outside the region -- like Tufts or Mt Sinai. I'm extrapolating from the fact that my small, but highly-ranked liberal arts college was still unknown to people not from the northeast.

 

[trustwomen]

University of Miami is where I got in and I'm waitlisted at 2 other schools.

In terms of a letter, I asked my program director to write them a letter explaining my SMP's relevance to medical school. Do you think I should write an additional letter? I can still submit it in writing, since my file has yet to go under review and probably won't until 2 weeks from now, since today was the deadline.

The numbers are ones that I got from the admissions office today in person .

She actually told me those were the numbers for In-Province with UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES. No Med-P's were included in my numbers...were their med-p's included in yours?? Maybe her numbers were people who had degrees from Quebec Universities?

An additional letter can't hurt, maybe you could convince them to count your SMP as an undergrad year (and drop your first year from your undergrad degree in exchange!)

The med-ps were not counted in my numbers, but mine were for *last year's* in-province mdcm (degreed) applicants. The usual number is indeed 180 and was about that for a number of years prior, but the admissions person told me that last year they went up to 250... I hope for your sake that we get fewer apps this year! Then again, you already got in somewhere, so you don't need any extra help.

Good luck!!!!

 

[DrZeke]

An additional letter can't hurt, maybe you could convince them to count your SMP as an undergrad year (and drop your first year from your undergrad degree in exchange!)

The med-ps were not counted in my numbers, but mine were for *last year's* in-province mdcm (degreed) applicants. The usual number is indeed 180 and was about that for a number of years prior, but the admissions person told me that last year they went up to 250... I hope for your sake that we get fewer apps this year! Then again, you already got in somewhere, so you don't need any extra help.

Good luck!!!!

Thanks!! Unfortunately, I so need the help...my 3.2 UG GPA is hurting me like you wouldn't believe. Now, if they could just take the 3.7 in my final year and the 3.92 from my 10 month intensive master's program...then I have 2 solid years of academic performance out of 4.

Oh well...I'm doomed.

I emailed the admissions officer at McGill and asked him if I should submit additional documentation...

 

[jbish]

I'd just like to point out that most name-recognition is regional, including American schools. I just glanced at the list of 125 medical schools and I honestly never heard of a bunch of the schools -- Morehouse in Georgia or the Uniformed Services U of the Health Sci F Edward Hebert SOM. There are some smaller, good schools in the Northeast that I wouldn't be surprised if were not as well known outside the region -- like Tufts or Mt Sinai. I'm extrapolating from the fact that my small, but highly-ranked liberal arts college was still unknown to people not from the northeast.

Hey, Acherona!!
I totally agree w/ the geographic bubble thing...which is why I'm saying if you're, for example, from Wyoming and you really want to go back there for residency, you should think long and hard before applying to a school like McGill (or yes, other schools that are just as good but also geographically far away from WY) because you may have trouble with name-recognition. Unlike Tufts or Mt. Sinai, which are U.S. schools, McGill adds into the mix being a Canadian institution, which adds a whole new layer of ignorance when people assume it's the same degree-equivalence as a Carib. school. Yes, at the end of the day, we're all MDs (or DOs) in North America...but some people/programs are just less likely to realize this than others when it comes to McGill.

 

[degoo_]

Hey Jessy, can you post the reply you get? thanks.

 

[DrZeke]

Hey, Acherona!!
I totally agree w/ the geographic bubble thing...which is why I'm saying if you're, for example, from Wyoming and you really want to go back there for residency, you should think long and hard before applying to a school like McGill (or yes, other schools that are just as good but also geographically far away from WY) because you may have trouble with name-recognition. Unlike Tufts or Mt. Sinai, which are U.S. schools, McGill adds into the mix being a Canadian institution, which adds a whole new layer of ignorance when people assume it's the same degree-equivalence as a Carib. school. Yes, at the end of the day, we're all MDs (or DOs) in North America...but some people/programs are just less likely to realize this than others when it comes to McGill.

Agreed! I have to tell all of you that my program director from my SMP asked me why I was applying to school in Canada and then proceeded to tell me that I wouldn't get the same training or quality of education, because of socialized medicine. I wanted to yell at him and say that he was complete ignorant, and that I would get AT LEAST the same education as any american institution by going to McGill and that I wouldn't have to worry about trying to rotate through hospitals in high crime rate or impoverished areas in order to still do high risk procedures. At all American schools I've applied to, I'm always questioning the clinical years and whether or not I'll get to see or do enough. Luckily, I'm accepted to a school that has a great clinical program, but not all are like that, and I know that at Mcgill, I don't have to worry.

Strange how ignorant the program director of an SMP is. You'd think he'd want someone from his program to get accepted to a school like McGill.

 

[DrZeke]

Hey Jessy, can you post the reply you get? thanks.

I will my dear, but so far I haven't received one

 

[operationivy]

Agreed! I have to tell all of you that my program director from my SMP asked me why I was applying to school in Canada and then proceeded to tell me that I wouldn't get the same training or quality of education, because of socialized medicine. I wanted to yell at him and say that he was complete ignorant, and that I would get AT LEAST the same education as any american institution by going to McGill and that I wouldn't have to worry about trying to rotate through hospitals in high crime rate or impoverished areas in order to still do high risk procedures. At all American schools I've applied to, I'm always questioning the clinical years and whether or not I'll get to see or do enough. Luckily, I'm accepted to a school that has a great clinical program, but not all are like that, and I know that at Mcgill, I don't have to worry.

Strange how ignorant the program director of an SMP is. You'd think he'd want someone from his program to get accepted to a school like McGill.

What is an SMP? And why are all you guys so hung up on Mcgill's name rep in the U.S.? I am from CALIFORNIA...very far from Montreal. I go to U.C. Berkeley and EVERYONE has heard of McGill and knows it is a great school. It is one of the highest ranked schools internationally. The number of scientists at McGill publishing in high impact journals is extrordinarily high.

 

[DrZeke]

What is an SMP? And why are all you guys so hung up on Mcgill's name rep in the U.S.? I am from CALIFORNIA...very far from Montreal. I go to U.C. Berkeley and EVERYONE has heard of McGill and knows it is a great school. It is one of the highest ranked schools internationally. The number of scientists at McGill publishing in high impact journals is extrordinarily high.

Ok...you completely missed the point. I agree McGill Is awesome...I was just also agreeing with some other posters like Jbish that the recognition of many schools can sometimes be regional. I was pointing out how clueless many people are about schools outside of USA and how some people have thought that a CANADIAN education is subpar or comparable to a Caribbean school. I DO NOT AGREE with this, I'm just telling you that it happens...

It's good that you and others in your region are well aware of McGill and it's reputation, but that does not imply that everyone far from McGill knows of it's reputation, unfortunately.

Also, an SMP = Special Master's Program. They have them all over the USA.

 

[DrZeke]

What is an SMP? And why are all you guys so hung up on Mcgill's name rep in the U.S.? I am from CALIFORNIA...very far from Montreal. I go to U.C. Berkeley and EVERYONE has heard of McGill and knows it is a great school. It is one of the highest ranked schools internationally. The number of scientists at McGill publishing in high impact journals is extrordinarily high.

Also, keep in mind, you go to Berkeley. It's a big research institution that often collaborates with other big research institutions, ie: MCGILL . So, it's no shock that you are well aware of the great education you can get there. However, think of all the butt**** little no-name schools all over USA and think about how many of them have heard of McGill...

Again, I feel like you would not believe this, because you tihnk I'm a troll, but almost nobody on my interviews knew where I went to undergrad. I'm used to it by now, but initially I wanted to drop my jaw and stare.

 

[operationivy]

Also, keep in mind, you go to Berkeley. It's a big research institution that often collaborates with other big research institutions, ie: MCGILL . So, it's no shock that you are well aware of the great education you can get there. However, think of all the butt**** little no-name schools all over USA and think about how many of them have heard of McGill...

Again, I feel like you would not believe this, because you tihnk I'm a troll, but almost nobody on my interviews knew where I went to undergrad. I'm used to it by now, but initially I wanted to drop my jaw and stare.

If you think that many of the "little no name schools" will not respect your education and will think you got your degree in the "carribean" than just go to med school in the states. That way you can get a lesser education for 4 times the price and you can put an end to your insecurities over Canadian institutions. If you go to school in the southeast and then you try to get a residency in say NY, Boston, LA or SF you will without a doubt run into the same "name recognition problem" that you are so trying to avoid now. In my opionion, I think you are being completely mislead. Does your "SMP" know anything about medical education? Is he or she a physician? What was your masters in? I wouldn't put too much stock in what some random person at a masters program says. Again, as I have said before, the quality of the medical students at McGill and the MATCHLIST (have you seen this? it is very impressive) speak for themselves. And remember, I am American with no ties to Canada and live 3,000 miles from Montreal....hence I am probably the least biased person on this forum.

 

[DrZeke]

.

 

[degoo_]

Why the nick change?

 

[DrZeke]

Why the nick change?

Well, lack of anonymity I suppose...Starting med school in the Fall and like the idea of keeping your anonymity on SDN

 

[FLaughaLot]

Hi all,
I read some of the messages above- thanks for the help there. I have heard great things about McGill in terms of the education you receive and the experience in the hospital (as well as living in Montreal and financial aid). But I'm wondering about the feel of being a student there. I heard from a few people (u.s. students) during my interview that they felt a bit of a international student vs. quebec residence divide. They also felt a bit older than the rest of the group and thought that that was part of it. Any response would be great (coming from the perspective of an international student or a quebec resident). I'd just love to get an idea of how much of a med school "community" there would be for an international student.