MD 2020-2021 Odds / Opinions / Advice

[Sneaky Sloth]

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Hi all,

I got my MCAT score recently and it was a 510 (130/123/129/128) which was lower than my AAMC FLs (lowest being 513). Obviously, the CARS score is not the best, but I wanted advice to see what I should expect this year.

Here are my ECs for those who are interested:
Year in school: Senior - Cal State
Country/state of residence: USA, CA
Cumulative GPA: 3.90
Science GPA: 3.92

Research – 300 hours total, one (last-author) publication and one senior thesis (currently working on)
Scribing (clinical) – 500 hours in the ER, 400 anticipated over the next year
Physician shadowing – 50 hours ICU
Non-clinical volunteering - 3 programs about 200 hours total. One for tutoring kids. One for helping pediatric patients.
Extracurricular activities - Vice-President of my club
Hobby - painting


Thank you for your time and consideration!

 

[M&L]

are you considering retaking by any chance?

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

are you considering retaking by any chance?

Hi, thanks for reaching out!
And no, not this year. It was really hard for me to improve my CARS score so I know I will need much more time than a few months.

 

[M&L]

i am sorry. This is such a stressful situation. i honestly do not have an advice for you, lets see what others (adcoms) say @Goro what do you think about 123 CARS with 508 MCAT?

 

[Goro]

The cars score is going to hurt, because it is below the 10th percentile at every MD School.

Answers will be better at DO.

Try a few Drexel/Albany class schools, plus NOVAMD, TCU.UNT, SETON HALL

 

[Angus Avagadro]

School list? I think you are toast at any California school. There are schools where 508 might be in line. Great grades, but your 123 will get you screened at many schools. @ Goro, has weighed in @ Faha?

 

[KnightDoc]

Hi all, I forgot to mention that I received secondaries for 29/33 schools (all MD) that I am applying to, which I will list below. I have turned in all these secondaries too. Does this change anything for my odds?

Albany Medical College
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine
California Northstate University College of Medicine
California University of Science and Medicine
Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine & Science
Drexel University College of Medicine
Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California
Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
Medical College of Wisconsin
Michigan State University College of Human Medicine
New York Medical College
Oakland University William Beaumont School of Medicine
Rush Medical College of Rush University Medical Center
Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
Stanford University School of Medicine
Tufts University School of Medicine
Tulane University School of Medicine
University of California, Davis, School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine, School of Medicine
University of California, Los Angeles David Geffen School of Medicine
University of California, Riverside School of Medicine
University of California, San Diego School of Medicine
University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine
University of Colorado School of Medicine
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
Wake Forest School of Medicine of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center
Wayne State University School of Medicine
Wright State University Boonshoft School of Medicine

@Goro -- may I quote you, or do you want to do the honors yourself? 🙂

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

@Goro -- may I quote you, or do you want to do the honors yourself? 🙂

I'm scared 😱

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm scared 😱

Okay, here goes!!

Secondaries are a tax on the hopelessly optimistic or even the pathologically naive.

He says this all the time. It means you can't go by receiving secondaries, because many schools will send them to just about anyone (in fact, many don't screen at all), and will happily collect your fee before rejecting you or just ignoring you for months on end.

Your GPA is great, but your MCAT is lethal for many schools on your list, as you have been told. The direct answer to your question is that receipt of secondaries changes nothing, which is the point of @Goro's pithy, if too often repeated, quote.

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

Okay, here goes!!


He says this all the time. It means you can't go by receiving secondaries, because many schools will send them to just about anyone (in fact, many don't screen at all), and will happily collect your fee before rejecting you or just ignoring you for months on end.

Your GPA is great, but your MCAT is lethal for many schools on your list, as you have been told. The direct answer to your question is that receipt of secondaries changes nothing, which is the point of @Goro's pithy, if too often repeated, quote.

I see. Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of what I expected even.

I guess there is nothing I can really do at this point besides wait and hope for the best. Just wish I had something more concrete to be optimistic about.

 

[KnightDoc]

I see. Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of what I expected even.

I guess there is nothing I can really do at this point besides wait and hope for the best. Just wish I had something more concrete to be optimistic about.

What you might want to do is take his advice, consider throwing in a few apps to some lower ranked schools, and consider adding DO schools to the list. While your GPA is high, your MCAT is not high for DO, and, as he said, they will be more forgiving of a 123 than most MD schools will be. The DO cycle runs longer and later, so you are far from late for them.

By the way, what does not really mean for URM? That might make a difference here!

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

What you might want to do is take his advice, consider throwing in a few apps to some lower ranked schools, and consider adding DO schools to the list. While your GPA is high, your MCAT is not high for DO, and, as he said, they will be more forgiving of a 123 than most MD schools will be. The DO cycle runs longer and later, so you are far from late for them.

By the way, what does not really mean for URM? That might make a difference here!

Makes sense

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

I took the shortened MCAT

 

[KnightDoc]

I don't think I want to apply to DO schools right now because I would rather apply to Master's programs (in like public health) and get a degree in that and then reapply MD. I work with plenty of DOs at my hospital and understand that they are just as qualified doctors, but I prefer this route. I would also retake the MCAT in that gap year. That being said, this is why I am looking for some good news in the next few months with these MD schools.

And I am not URM in my opinion. Although I am not white, my parents are educated and we live in a sustainable-income area with no problems. I definitely did not have as many hardships as others and I don't want to sugarcoat it. Don't think it is fair, to be honest.

Does not matter. If you have it, use it. URM and low SES are not synonymous.

Addressing hardships are one thing. Bringing underrepresented minorities into the profession are another. Sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't. You already said 7-8 questions on one section having an outsized impact was unfortunate (unfair?). Having URMs historically underrepresented was also unfair.

Maybe you don't need a boost because you weren't denied resources growing up, but if a boost is offered because your demographic is desired by a school, why would you turn it down? If not you, it's just going to go to someone else, maybe someone less talented, who had even more advantages than you did. Please don't look gift horses in the mouth. If you are not White or Asian, you might be in better position than some of the experts have led you to believe.

 

[KnightDoc]

I think what is funny about all of is this that since I took the shortened MCAT, I had 48 (I think) CARS questions on my test. And if I had only gotten let's say 7 more questions right, my application would have completely been turned upside down. Same goes for the Psych/Soc section too.

Just 7 or so questions dictate what career route I will take. Crazy, but that's just the way it goes...

To be fair, that's a lot of questions on top of the ones you already got wrong, but please don't freak out yet. It might dictate WHERE you go to school, but not what career route you take. I'm telling you, if you identified your ethnicity on your application, you might be in a better position than you realize, or think you deserve. PLEASE don't overthink it, bearing in mind how random and unfair the process is in any event.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

What were your FL scores? Since you applied this cycle, atleast apply to few DO schools. CARS is unpredictable so don't bet on improving that section.

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

What were your FL scores? Since you applied this cycle, atleast apply to few DO schools. CARS is unpredictable so don't bet on improving that section.

My last FL was a 512 (130/123/129/130). My CARS Section has always been low to be honest, don't think I ever took it past 125. But also, looking back, I did not study that section effectively. My Psych/Soc has been fairly consistent at the 129+ range, but I guess I had more room to improve.

The only DO school I would consider this year is Western but their averages are pretty high too. And like I said I think I prefer getting the Master's route.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

My last FL was a 512 (130/123/129/130). My CARS Section has always been low to be honest, don't think I ever took it past 125. But also, looking back, I did not study that section effectively. My Psych/Soc has been fairly consistent at the 129+ range, but I guess I had more room to improve.

The only DO school I would consider this year is Western but their averages are pretty high too. And like I said I think I prefer getting the Master's route.

How much do you think you can improve in CARS? It may be tough to get over 127 which I believe is 92 percentile.

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

How much do you think you can improve in CARS? It may be tough to get over 127 which I believe is 92 percentile.

If given a year, I am confident I can take it past 125. Maybe even hit 126-127. I signed up for Jack Westin's course and I thought the strategies were good and effective, the only reason why it didn't work was because I started it 1 month before my test.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

If given a year, I am confident I can take it past 125. Maybe even hit 126-127. I signed up for Jack Westin's course and I thought the strategies were good and effective, the only reason why it didn't work was because I started it 1 month before my test.

127 takes you to 512 and you will be a reapplicatent. Also, masters won't help much since you have very good GPA.

 

[DO2015CA]

My last FL was a 512 (130/123/129/130). My CARS Section has always been low to be honest, don't think I ever took it past 125. But also, looking back, I did not study that section effectively. My Psych/Soc has been fairly consistent at the 129+ range, but I guess I had more room to improve.

The only DO school I would consider this year is Western but their averages are pretty high too. And like I said I think I prefer getting the Master's route.

the masters is not going to help you all that much. It’s for high mcats and low gpas. last ditch effort to try and earn a spot. You’d be better off just taking a gap year to study for the mcat and do extracurriculars to boost your application even more. Especially if you don’t want to go DO. There’s not a huge upside to a SMP with your app

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

127 takes you to 512 and you will be a reapplicatent. Also, masters won't help much since you have very good GPA.

the masters is not going to help you all that much. It’s for high mcats and low gpas. last ditch effort to try and earn a spot. You’d be better off just taking a gap year to study for the mcat and do extracurriculars to boost your application even more. Especially if you don’t want to go DO. There’s not a huge upside to a SMP with your app

I hear you guys and it makes sense. If I took a gap year I would continue scribing, volunteering, and retake the MCAT. That being said, I just personally desire a Master's because I am interested in becoming more knowledgeable in the field of medicine and public health. I think all else being equal and I improve my MCAT, it would be cool to go to an MD school after obtaining my Master's so that I can try to help out the underserved communities.

 

[Rogue42]

I work with plenty of DOs at my hospital and understand that they are just as qualified doctors, but I prefer this route.

BRROOOOO, yall just gonna let this guy get away with this?

DO's aren't "just as qualified as doctors." They ARE doctors. Im not offended, I promise. But moving forward, I wouldn't ever say that to anyone, doctor, MD or DO. You never know when you might be talking to a DO in a hospital and not know it, a DO who is your patient and not know it, or an MD who is great friends / have friends / sig other is a DO. Its kinda like saying "PA's can do healthcare but they're just a PA." I know this website gives midlevels a lot of crap, but you enter this profession and throw a line like that, and it'll get you in trouble real quick. Especially in clerkships or residency. Okay, moving on from that learning moment.

MPH is fine if that is what you want to do! Again, it won't help you tremendously, but it might help you a little (a real little) in terms of admissions. You just gotta be careful not to do poorly. While it won't help you, it CAN hurt you.

Totally understandable to not want to go the DO route if that isn't what you want to do. But you have to remember that you are in California - and your state school average MCATS are in that 515 range. Meaning that unless you spend the next year upping your whole score by 8 points or so, it'll still be a rough go for you. Meaning private schools.

Your MCAT now is a little low for private schools too, but you could be lucky - with everything else - and grab some interviews at lower-tiered MD schools like Seton Hall, wright state, VCU, etc. I wouldn't give up hope, you're just going to have to be patient. I would also research some lower-tiered MD private schools because I don't know a list off the top of my head.

 

[lull]

DO's aren't "just as qualified as doctors." They ARE doctors. Im not offended, I promise. But moving forward, I wouldn't ever say that to anyone, doctor, MD or DO.

Shame that most people don't care about the distinction between MD and DO until they go pre-med. My PCP of many years was a DO, don't think I even knew what the letters DO meant up until I entered college and hopped on these forums. It's interesting though that DOs have a larger social media presence lately than MDs...maybe that'll help with the stigma?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

BRROOOOO, yall just gonna let this guy get away with this?

DO's aren't "just as qualified as doctors." They ARE doctors. Im not offended, I promise. But moving forward, I wouldn't ever say that to anyone, doctor, MD or DO. You never know when you might be talking to a DO in a hospital and not know it, a DO who is your patient and not know it, or an MD who is great friends / have friends / sig other is a DO. Its kinda like saying "PA's can do healthcare but they're just a PA." I know this website gives midlevels a lot of crap, but you enter this profession and throw a line like that, and it'll get you in trouble real quick. Especially in clerkships or residency. Okay, moving on from that learning moment.

MPH is fine if that is what you want to do! Again, it won't help you tremendously, but it might help you a little (a real little) in terms of admissions. You just gotta be careful not to do poorly. While it won't help you, it CAN hurt you.

Totally understandable to not want to go the DO route if that isn't what you want to do. But you have to remember that you are in California - and your state school average MCATS are in that 515 range. Meaning that unless you spend the next year upping your whole score by 8 points or so, it'll still be a rough go for you. Meaning private schools.

Your MCAT now is a little low for private schools too, but you could be lucky - with everything else - and grab some interviews at lower-tiered MD schools like Seton Hall, wright state, VCU, etc. I wouldn't give up hope, you're just going to have to be patient. I would also research some lower-tiered MD private schools because I don't know a list off the top of my head.

Actually its refreshing to hear an applicant make this choice. The last thing DOs need is another self loathing DO. If answering the patient's question "DO? What's that?" bothers you, maybe you should take the gap year or take your chances in the Caribbean? Life is full of choices, make good ones. 508 is an ok score for some schools, but will be screened out by many schools, especially the 123 CARS score. There is a list of schools where a 508 is in the range. Also, many schools average MCAT scores, so a retake may not help much with them. Good luck and best wishes OP!

 

[OfMiceAndWomen]

BRROOOOO, yall just gonna let this guy get away with this?

DO's aren't "just as qualified as doctors." They ARE doctors. Im not offended, I promise. But moving forward, I wouldn't ever say that to anyone, doctor, MD or DO. You never know when you might be talking to a DO in a hospital and not know it, a DO who is your patient and not know it, or an MD who is great friends / have friends / sig other is a DO. Its kinda like saying "PA's can do healthcare but they're just a PA." I know this website gives midlevels a lot of crap, but you enter this profession and throw a line like that, and it'll get you in trouble real quick. Especially in clerkships or residency. Okay, moving on from that learning moment.

MPH is fine if that is what you want to do! Again, it won't help you tremendously, but it might help you a little (a real little) in terms of admissions. You just gotta be careful not to do poorly. While it won't help you, it CAN hurt you.

Totally understandable to not want to go the DO route if that isn't what you want to do. But you have to remember that you are in California - and your state school average MCATS are in that 515 range. Meaning that unless you spend the next year upping your whole score by 8 points or so, it'll still be a rough go for you. Meaning private schools.

Your MCAT now is a little low for private schools too, but you could be lucky - with everything else - and grab some interviews at lower-tiered MD schools like Seton Hall, wright state, VCU, etc. I wouldn't give up hope, you're just going to have to be patient. I would also research some lower-tiered MD private schools because I don't know a list off the top of my head.

You added an extra word that changed what OP meant. OP said DOs are “just as qualified doctors” (as MDs, implied). Not “just as qualified as doctors”

 

[Faha]

Several of the schools you applied to are unrealistic with your MCAT of 508-Stanford, UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, USC Keck, Einstein, North Carolina , Dartmouth, Boston University. Consider adding these schools:
TCU-UNT
NOVA MD
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Central Florida
George Washington
Eastern Virginia

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

OP exactly sound like one candidate I know, 3.6 GPA from UC and 510 MCAT (2 attempts) , refused to apply for DO despite my recomendation 9 years back. Took 3 gap years to beef up ECs and then masters from T5 school and tried MCAT again (no improvement) . Ended with an expensive DO in 3rd attempt and now an IM resident. First two cycles got one MD interview each cycle and put on WL so that gave hope.

 

[Rogue42]

You added an extra word that changed what OP meant. OP said DOs are “just as qualified doctors” (as MDs, implied). Not “just as qualified as doctors”

Thanks for the clarification. Last night at 2 am, I definitely should have been in bed instead of reading SDN lol

 

[KnightDoc]

Oh, I definitely put my ethnicity (Persian) on there. if that is what you were talking about. Hopefully, it will help as you said 🙂

I'm not sure about Persian. I was thinking more along the lines of African American or Hispanic. People like @Goro would be more plugged into whether or not Persian rates an admissions preference. But, so long as you did disclose, you'll receive the appropriate level of review and consideration.

 

[KnightDoc]

Shame that most people don't care about the distinction between MD and DO until they go pre-med. My PCP of many years was a DO, don't think I even knew what the letters DO meant up until I entered college and hopped on these forums. It's interesting though that DOs have a larger social media presence lately than MDs...maybe that'll help with the stigma?

Actually, what will help with the stigma will be when demand so outstrips supply that DO stats rival MD stats. That will be when the education receives the respect from pre-meds that it deserves. Until then, with few exceptions, it will still be the option for candidates whose stats aren't good enough for MD, as opposed to an option for people choosing among Harvard, Stanford and PCOM, because they really like Philly, and a doctor is a doctor. 🙂

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

Several of the schools you applied to are unrealistic with your MCAT of 508-Stanford, UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, USC Keck, Einstein, North Carolina , Dartmouth, Boston University. Consider adding these schools:
TCU-UNT
NOVA MD
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Central Florida
George Washington
Eastern Virginia

Before I took the MCAT I went through MSAR and filtered out schools that were either too expensive or too competitive. I still applied to the UCs because I am from California. Couple of the other ones I have personal reasons for. That is not to say that I expect good outcomes, however.

I looked at these schools and the only ones I am interested in are Eastern Virginia and Florida Atlantic. All the others are too small, too new, or too far away that I would actually prefer to take a gap year and fix my MCAT. Thanks for your help!

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

Does anyone have any insight into what the holistic review process of my application may look like?

 

[DO2015CA]

Before I took the MCAT I went through MSAR and filtered out schools that were either too expensive or too competitive. I still applied to the UCs because I am from California. Couple of the other ones I have personal reasons for. That is not to say that I expect good outcomes, however.

I looked at these schools and the only ones I am interested in are Eastern Virginia and Florida Atlantic. All the others are too small, too new, or too far away that I would actually prefer to take a gap year and fix my MCAT. Thanks for your help!

honestly beggars can’t be choosers with that mcat. You are only competitive for the new and small school. I support doing your mph route but if you don’t want those low tier schools then you will need to retake the mcat regardless of the mph

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

honestly beggars can’t be choosers with that mcat. You are only competitive for the new and small school. I support doing your mph route but if you don’t want those low tier schools then you will need to retake the mcat regardless of the mph

Yes, retaking is the plan as mentioned above rather than settling for those schools. At the end of the day, I believe that my MCAT score does not accurately reflect my passion for medicine nor capability to handle the rigor for it as well as my extracurriculars do. That being said, I have standards for myself and I am sure I can surpass them if I take a year off to retake the MCAT.

 

[M&L]

Hi all,

I got my MCAT score recently and it was a 508 (130/123/129/126) which was lower than my AAMC FLs (lowest being 512). Obviously, the CARS score is not the best, but I wanted advice to see what I should expect this year.

Here are my ECs for those who are interested:
Year in school: Senior - UC School
Country/state of residence: USA, CA
Cumulative GPA: 3.92
Science GPA: 3.94

Research – 400 hours total, one (last-author) publication and one senior thesis (currently working on)
Scribing (clinical) – 400 hours in the ER, 400 anticipated over the next year
Physician shadowing – 40 hours ICU
Non-clinical volunteering - 3 programs about 100 hours total. One for tutoring homeless kids. One for helping pediatric ICU patients. And one for giving medical presentations in my local community.
Extracurricular activities - Vice-President of my fraternity / University Honors Program
Hobby - photography
Distance Traveled/PS - diverse life experiences
URM: not really

I've heard a lot about how a low CARS score is a red flag and I just wanted to get another set of eyes on this. I think it is kind of unfortunate that maybe 7-8 questions on one test section can bring down my application that much but I guess it is what it is. I am planning to apply to 33 schools, so very broad.


Thank you for your time and consideration!

I am a student - not adcom, but i am a non-traditional, and i applied 3 years in a row, so i will just try to sort of give you an honest feedback based solely on information that i dug up. It might be wrong in some ways, but i am sure about what i am writing, - because wise ppl told me these things about me 🙂))). I am just writing all this because i know how hard it is to be in limbo, and not really knowing what is going to happen, and that now you probably just want some answers. So, there it goes:

1). The way i understand holistic review, - schools are less likely to automatically brush you off because of something specific, before they take a look at the whole application. That is good. For me, my GPA was modest (3.65), my last MCAT was 511 (but that was my 4th attempt, - but that is the only attempt that was after completion of the prereqs. So, i was worried). I am a veteran, immigrant, i am older. So i REALLY wanted to understand the holistic review 🙂))). Some people told me i had no chance getting in, some said i do. So, i found out a lot of information, and i will try to communicate it to you:

2) your research hours dont scream "huge number", but they could be enough. you need to show them off by telling a really good story in your essays. it doesnt have to be great results, but it needs to show deep thinking, well thought out process, etc. So, quality over quantity. (i had the same hours, but i didnt really think my research was special, so i had to put focus on other aspects of my application). Now, you dont need research to get into a medical school, i am just giving you that comment to show you how to make the most out of it, if it makes sense.

3) your scribing hours look good to me.

4) your volunteering hours are a bit on the lower side to me personally, so i would try to do some deep essay writing here as well (try not to sound shallow or like you are trying too hard). Basically, try to reflect on what you did over those hours. Also keep in mind, - some people will look at your application and judge you - they will try to determine how selfless and giving you are based on your volunteering hours. I know that it does not really show the real life necessarily, - for example, you might have "only" 100 hours because you were working full time to support yourself through college.. So, in this case you would need to reflect deeper in the essays on what those "limited" hours gave you, as well as mention that you were working full time and what that gave you as far as experience (make sure you dont sound apologetic).

5) Hobby - sounds AWESOME!!! very unique. Do mention that.

6) Travelling/multicultural experience is great!!!

7) URM - what do you mean by "not really" ? is that a "NO"? or you are not sure? (for example, are your parents of different races and you are not sure because of it?

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

I am a student - not adcom, but i am a non-traditional, and i applied 3 years in a row, so i will just try to sort of give you an honest feedback based solely on information that i dug up. It might be wrong in some ways, but i am sure about what i am writing, - because wise ppl told me these things about me 🙂))). I am just writing all this because i know how hard it is to be in limbo, and not really knowing what is going to happen, and that now you probably just want some answers. So, there it goes:

1). The way i understand holistic review, - schools are less likely to automatically brush you off because of something specific, before they take a look at the whole application. That is good. For me, my GPA was modest (3.65), my last MCAT was 511 (but that was my 4th attempt, - but that is the only attempt that was after completion of the prereqs. So, i was worried). I am a veteran, immigrant, i am older. So i REALLY wanted to understand the holistic review 🙂))). Some people told me i had no chance getting in, some said i do. So, i found out a lot of information, and i will try to communicate it to you:

2) your research hours dont scream "huge number", but they could be enough. you need to show them off by telling a really good story in your essays. it doesnt have to be great results, but it needs to show deep thinking, well thought out process, etc. So, quality over quantity. (i had the same hours, but i didnt really think my research was special, so i had to put focus on other aspects of my application). Now, you dont need research to get into a medical school, i am just giving you that comment to show you how to make the most out of it, if it makes sense.

3) your scribing hours look good to me.

4) your volunteering hours are a bit on the lower side to me personally, so i would try to do some deep essay writing here as well (try not to sound shallow or like you are trying too hard). Basically, try to reflect on what you did over those hours. Also keep in mind, - some people will look at your application and judge you - they will try to determine how selfless and giving you are based on your volunteering hours. I know that it does not really show the real life necessarily, - for example, you might have "only" 100 hours because you were working full time to support yourself through college.. So, in this case you would need to reflect deeper in the essays on what those "limited" hours gave you, as well as mention that you were working full time and what that gave you as far as experience (make sure you dont sound apologetic).

5) Hobby - sounds AWESOME!!! very unique. Do mention that.

6) Travelling/multicultural experience is great!!!

7) URM - what do you mean by "not really" ? is that a "NO"? or you are not sure? (for example, are your parents of different races and you are not sure because of it?

Hi, thanks for the thorough review! I appreciate it!

 

[M&L]

Hi, thanks for the thorough review! I appreciate it!

1) I am hoping this is the case for my MCAT. I talked to a dean of one medical school and she said they don't really focus that much on the MCAT (especially the CARS section) as long as you can prove that you can take a test (they want those who can pass the board exams obviously). I mentioned my overall score to her and she said it was fine and that it would demonstrate said capability. But of course, I didn't tell her my CARS score out of fear. Perhaps this was a mistake, perhaps not. As I said, I hope adcoms would thoroughly look through my application first and then decide rather than immediately screen me out because of one MCAT subsection score. I understand that this is how it is, and I am not complaining. Just saying that I have a lot more to offer in the rest of the application and if an adcom member still doesn't think I am qualified after a throughout review, I can readily accept that.

2) I have been in two research labs during my undergraduate career. For the first lab, I talk about what I did and what we published, but also what I learned within the field of research. What it actually means (to me) to do research. In the second lab, I talk about my individual senior thesis and what the implications are, where we are at, and what we have so far.

3) Thanks, I love scribing 🙂

4) I agree. Fortunately, I feel like I was able to tie it in a lot with my past life. I had a traumatic event when I was a kid that I write about in my personal statement that motivated me to join a specific/related organization to help others in the same boat. Part of it is what got me into medicine itself. I also admit that looking back, I was attempting to adjust to college and balance my workload, which hindered/blinded me a little bit from doing community service. I do also mention that I wish I was able to go back and put in more hours with my specific organization as it is something important to me.

5) Thanks again, I have a personal Instagram account to share my photos online as well. I even drop the link in some of the secondary applications. I would love to share it with you all, but for privacy reasons, I think it is best I do not.

6) Yes, a big reason why I want to go into medicine is my life experience. Like I said I had a traumatic event when I was younger and this caused me to move from place to place for a while. I talk about how this distance traveled has given me insight into the diverse living conditions that people reside in, and some more urgently need assistance than others. Further, I combined my passion for helping others once I experienced the benefits of community service with my passion for the sciences when I became a scribe. I wanted to check out what being a physician really meant. I definitely learned a lot, from patient interaction to medical knowledge to teamwork and helping others, becoming a physician is very appealing to me and I believe it suits me.

7) If we count Persian as URM then yes, if not then no. It is on my application, though.

well, for what its worth, it looks like you really worked hard on this application! so, trust the process, and if you do not get in this year, consider retaking MCAT maybe, and maybe applying DO as well if you havent yet (sorry, i missed that part).

best of luck!

 

[Rogue42]

Before I took the MCAT I went through MSAR and filtered out schools that were either too expensive or too competitive. I still applied to the UCs because I am from California. Couple of the other ones I have personal reasons for. That is not to say that I expect good outcomes, however.

I looked at these schools and the only ones I am interested in are Eastern Virginia and Florida Atlantic. All the others are too small, too new, or too far away that I would actually prefer to take a gap year and fix my MCAT. Thanks for your help!

I don't even know why you started this thread. You said you wanted advice and opinions on your situation, yet you've refuted almost every half-decent piece of advice.

The ONLY thing in this thread that you responded positively to was someone using their anecdotal piece of advice on their acceptance in a holistic approach to which means that you really didn't want advice or opinions. You wanted us to come in here, praise your application, and give you hope.

End of the day, its possible that you are accepted, though unlikely based on low MCAT compared to the average at every school. But hey, I was an underdog myself. Good luck.

 

[lull]

Actually, what will help with the stigma will be when demand so outstrips supply that DO stats rival MD stats

I don't get it. Demand already outstrips supply. Since when do these schools lack applicants?

 

[Sneaky Sloth]

I don't even know why you started this thread. You said you wanted advice and opinions on your situation, yet you've refuted almost every half-decent piece of advice.

The ONLY thing in this thread that you responded positively to was someone using their anecdotal piece of advice on their acceptance in a holistic approach to which means that you really didn't want advice or opinions. You wanted us to come in here, praise your application, and give you hope.

End of the day, it's possible that you are accepted, though unlikely based on low MCAT compared to the average at every school. But hey, I was an underdog myself. Good luck.

Let me begin by apologizing on my behalf for any possible mistakes on my end that may fall in line with your viewpoint. That was not my intention, and I am saddened to hear you feel that way.

If you still feel otherwise I am very much happy to further elaborate my position and my responses. To answer your question, I came here for real input, not inflated ones, or false hope. And I am very much satisfied with the feedback I have received from everyone else, it has adjusted my viewpoint and pointed me in a better direction for the future. Congratulations on your journey though, as you said it is possible, and I likewise refuse to accept defeat.

 

[KnightDoc]

I don't get it. Demand already outstrips supply. Since when do these schools lack applicants?

Since their average GPAs and MCATs are so much below MD. Believe me, it is not because they are rejecting tons of higher stat applicants due to their holistic approach. The applicants they are rejecting have even lower stats (or are being subjected to yield protection). DO simply attracts lower stat applicants and matriculants than MD. The stigma will disappear when this disparity does. Yes, demand outstrips supply, but it's lower stat demand from people who cannot get into MD. It's not equal demand because MD=DO=Doctor.

 

[Rogue42]

Let me begin by apologizing on my behalf for any possible mistakes on my end that may fall in line with your viewpoint. That was not my intention, and I am saddened to hear you feel that way.

I understand that everyone has different advice/viewpoints, and I have been open to them all. I am a person and not me nor my application can be adequately described in any amount of text within this thread. I have personal reasons for my decisions, which I tried to address in my responses. Again, I apologize if it may come off as arrogant, or as if I were to refute one's advice, I was simply trying to clarify my decision making. If anything, we can all agree that my MCAT CARS is the lowest point of my application, I have accepted that I am clearly not arguing it. But if someone tells me I am unrealistic for applying to a certain school, I respectfully will not stand in the open without an explanation. As mentioned, a lot of these are my state schools and I would be crazy not to apply, especially considering I submitted my application before getting my MCAT score back. That being said, I even added Eastern Virginia to my list today, following in suit with @Faha's advice.

If you still feel otherwise I am very much happy to further elaborate my position and my responses. To answer your question, I came here for real input, not inflated ones, or false hope. And I am very much satisfied with the feedback I have received from everyone else, it has adjusted my viewpoint and pointed me in a better direction for the future. Congratulations on your journey though, as you said it is possible, and I likewise refuse to accept defeat.

Here is some advice;

When you ask for advice, you ACCEPT the advice. Whether or not you use it is up to you. That is what I mean by "refute." Someone advised that DO schools would be good based on your competitive state of residency and low MCAT score and subsection, you came back and said you didn't want to do DO. WHICH is fine, the problem is that no one here actually needed your explanation for why. Someone recommend some schools you could try, you came back and said you already looked into them and they're either too expensive, too small, or too far (that one really didn't make sense), which again is totally fine, but no one here needed to know. You could have simply said "thanks." No one needed you to explain your personal reasons for why you don't want their specific advice.

No one has attacked you or your application. No one is asking you to accept some kind of defeat. You can "respectfully will not stand in the open without an explanation" when someone tells you that your application for a school is unrealistic all you want to, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS unrealistic. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try. But there is no way in hades you're getting into Stanford unless you know someone. That is about the only half decent explanation that would make it realistic.

You can wait it out, and be optimistic! And you should. Besides your MCAT, you have a solid app. Problem is, it isn't a solid application to any of the schools that you applied to. Again, doesn't mean that you won't snag an acceptance. But realistically, you should be preparing for another MCAT retake, applying to MPH's, and getting ready to do this process over again. And with that, I am done with this thread. Good luck.

 

[lull]

Since their average GPAs and MCATs are so much below MD. Believe me, it is not because they are rejecting tons of higher stat applicants due to their holistic approach. The applicants they are rejecting have even lower stats (or are being subjected to yield protection). DO simply attracts lower stat applicants and matriculants than MD. The stigma will disappear when this disparity does. Yes, demand outstrips supply, but it's lower stat demand from people who cannot get into MD. It's not equal demand because MD=DO=Doctor.

I guess I get what you're saying, but I don't think having higher stat students admitted to DO schools is going to get rid of the stigma. Who is going to care if you are a 3.8+, 520+ at a DO school, if you're in a program that has had a long-held history of stigma. People are still going to associate being DO with being less qualified. Seems like the only way to get rid of that stigma is to get rid of the name itself.

I am doing a really doing a good job of leading this forum away from the topic so OP if you're retaking the MCAT, the easiest area to improve is P/S, have you gone through the Khan Academy videos? Are you familiar with the 86pg/300pg reddit doc? I highly recommend those resources. In October, AAMC will be releasing more CARS practice material so maybe it would be best to plan for a later MCAT test date to take advantage of the new CARS materials.

 

[KnightDoc]

I guess I get what you're saying, but I don't think having higher stat students admitted to DO schools is going to get rid of the stigma. Who is going to care if you are a 3.8+, 520+ at a DO school, if you're in a program that has had a long-held history of stigma. People are still going to associate being DO with being less qualified. Seems like the only way to get rid of that stigma is to get rid of the name itself.

I am doing a really doing a good job of leading this forum away from the topic so OP if you're retaking the MCAT, the easiest area to improve is P/S, have you gone through the Khan Academy videos? Are you familiar with the 86pg/300pg reddit doc? I highly recommend those resources. In October, AAMC will be releasing more CARS practice material so maybe it would be best to plan for a later MCAT test date to take advantage of the new CARS materials.

But it will!!! 🙂 The stigma is because it is seen as "lesser" even though the reality is DOs have more and more access to formerly exclusively MD opportunities every year. If you needed the same stats to go DO as MD, that would break down the final barrier, and it would be seen as equivalent rather than a second choice.

No one will care if one doctor is a high stat DO. When you need the same stats to get into a random DO school as a random MD school, that will be a different story. And we are far away from that today.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

But it will!!! 🙂 The stigma is because it is seen as "lesser" even though the reality is DOs have more and more access to formerly exclusively MD opportunities every year. If you needed the same stats to go DO as MD, that would break down the final barrier, and it would be seen as equivalent rather than a second choice.

No one will care if one doctor is a high stat DO. When you need the same stats to get into a random DO school as a random MD school, that will be a different story. And we are far away from that today.

May be you should lead that effort 😎

 

[KnightDoc]

May be you should lead that effort 😎

I honestly wouldn't know where to start.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I honestly wouldn't know where to start.

Start with applying to DO only and then talk about it endlessly on SDN

 

[Angus Avagadro]

But it will!!! 🙂 The stigma is because it is seen as "lesser" even though the reality is DOs have more and more access to formerly exclusively MD opportunities every year. If you needed the same stats to go DO as MD, that would break down the final barrier, and it would be seen as equivalent rather than a second choice.

No one will care if one doctor is a high stat DO. When you need the same stats to get into a random DO school as a random MD school, that will be a different story. And we are far away from that today.

Pedigree bigotry is a thing. The Ivy grads will still try to remind you where you are from.

 

[KnightDoc]

Start with applying to DO only and then talk about it endlessly on SDN

But, but .... the stigma!!! 🙂

Plus, @Goro would chew me up and spit me out!