Md, do, or carib md route?

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PreMedHopeful

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SOo i'm a college student debating about MD, DO, AND CARIB MD....please give me your input as to which route i should take???

as of now, i'm most likely going to choose DO because i like the philosophy...
 
All things being equal, your opportunities will depend on MD>DO>Carib MD.

Cost is another issue, choose based on that.
 
If the DO route fits, then go DO. Most people would say that you should go to medical school in the US if at all possible, so US MD and DO are the options you should focus on.
 
Caribbean is a last ditch option. What is your MCAT/GPA? MD programs are better for those interested in doing specialties, DO are oftentimes better for primary care. This depends on the individual school. OMM is an adjunct that is taught at colleges of osteopathic medicine that is one of the distinguishing things.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Caribbean is a last ditch option. What is your MCAT/GPA? MD programs are better for those interested in doing specialties, DO are oftentimes better for primary care. This depends on the individual school. OMM is an adjunct that is taught at colleges of osteopathic medicine that is one of the distinguishing things.
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This is not true what so ever. DOs can go into any specialty they want to go into and not just primary. Schools don't dictate or choose what specialty you go into, that is left up to the individual.
 
Apply to all 3, then choose whichever MD or DO school you like best if accepted, followed by the carib school you like best if you are not accepted to a US MD or DO.

One reason that I am hoping avoid carib is to potentially do a military scholarship to avoid debt (among other reasons). Going to carib would saddle me with >500k of debt after interest.
 
PreMedHopeful said:
SOo i'm a college student debating about MD, DO, AND CARIB MD....please give me your input as to which route i should take???

as of now, i'm most likely going to choose DO because i like the philosophy...
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If you can....go MD

Its just easier. Education will be no different but you won't have to explain to people what a DO is or have to worry about residency programs.
 
PreMedHopeful said:
SOo i'm a college student debating about MD, DO, AND CARIB MD....please give me your input as to which route i should take???

as of now, i'm most likely going to choose DO because i like the philosophy...
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Just stay in the US. MD or DO, you'll do fine with either ... but don't go to the Caribbean.
 
DO NOT go Caribbean. DO or MD are fine. DO has gained a lot of clout over the years, and their practices are gaining respect. The DIFFERENCE is philosophy. MD allows you to get into residencies a little easier than DO. But, if you do well on the BOARDS...well, that is really all that matters. Doing well in medical school, staying active in the community, and domin' the boards will get you a Hopkins or even a Harvard residency as a DO.
 
PunkmedGirl said:
This is not true what so ever. DOs can go into any specialty they want to go into and not just primary. Schools don't dictate or choose what specialty you go into, that is left up to the individual.
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I recognize that but most DO schools are primary care oriented. WVSOM, LECOM, ATSU-SOMA, AZCOM, PCOM-GA, KCUMB-COM, LMU-DCOM, NSU-COM, OSU-COM, PNWU-COM, PC-SOM, Touro COM, Edward Via COM and William Carey COM are all primary care focused. I choose a BS/DO program as I preferred the emphasis on primary care. I didn't say that somebody couldn't do sub-specialty care as a DO. I merely pointed out that most institutions were primary care oriented and that is something to consider. If you go to WVSOM odds are you will become a PCP and if you go to a research institution a sub-specialist. I'm not knocking the profession I'm planning to join.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
I recognize that but most DO schools are primary care oriented. WVSOM, LECOM, ATSU-SOMA, AZCOM, PCOM-GA, KCUMB-COM, LMU-DCOM, NSU-COM, OSU-COM, PNWU-COM, PC-SOM, Touro COM, Edward Via COM and William Carey COM are all primary care focused. I choose a BS/DO program as I preferred the emphasis on primary care. I didn't say that somebody couldn't do sub-specialty care as a DO. I merely pointed out that most institutions were primary care oriented and that is something to consider. If you go to WVSOM odds are you will become a PCP and if you go to a research institution a sub-specialist. I'm not knocking the profession I'm planning to join.
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All medical schools (MD and DO) have mission statement to produce more primary care doctors. The school doesn't dictate what specialty you go into no matter how primary oriented they are. Specialty choice is primarily based on the individual and their performance in medical school and not the school itself. This is why match lists are useless because its an individual's choice and effort for residency and not the schools.
 
PunkmedGirl said:
All medical schools (MD and DO) have mission statement to produce more primary care doctors. The school doesn't dictate what specialty you go into no matter how primary oriented they are. Specialty choice is primarily based on the individual and their performance in medical school and not the school itself. This is why match lists are useless because its an individual's choice and effort for residency and not the schools.
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Bingo ... if you really read medical school missions statements, they almost ALL talk about increasing primary care physicians, caring for their community (ie through primary care), etc etc. This is not restricted to DO schools. Also, if you look at a breakdown, there are many DO schools which put like 30% of class in primary care, not even close to the majority. What this means is that, it's up to the student. If you're smart, dedicated, etc ... you can make things happen.

Also, as a side note ... even if you have no intent to enter primary care, I think it's super respectable and important that schools (osteopathic especially) put an emphasis on primary care and community health situations. It's crucial, and I support their efforts!!!!
 
PunkmedGirl said:
All medical schools (MD and DO) have mission statement to produce more primary care doctors. The school doesn't dictate what specialty you go into no matter how primary oriented they are. Specialty choice is primarily based on the individual and their performance in medical school and not the school itself. This is why match lists are useless because its an individual's choice and effort for residency and not the schools.
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All that I'm saying is that a primary care oriented school maybe a poor choice for someone planning a life in specialty care. Match lists are indicative of the performance of students in general. If a school has an impressive match list it is an indirect look at how good the students are. Not all residencies are created equal and neither are all schools. The OP should choose a school that best fits his or her interests and that should include in no particular order A) Geography B) Cost C) Academics D) Research E) Clinicals F) Match lists G) Primary care or specialty orientation
 
FutureCTDoc said:
All that I'm saying is that a primary care oriented school maybe a poor choice for someone planning a life in specialty care. Match lists are indicative of the performance of students in general. If a school has an impressive match list it is an indirect look at how good the students are. Not all residencies are created equal and neither are all schools. The OP should choose a school that best fits his or her interests and that should include in no particular order A) Geography B) Cost C) Academics D) Research E) Clinicals F) Match lists G) Primary care or specialty orientation
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You do make a valid point. If you look at a school where 90% of its students go into primary care (IE WVSOM), it's probably saying something. Meaning that the students that go there really want to enter primary care and are training to do so. However, it does not mean that you couldn't enter something else. If you rock grades, steps, do audition rotations, then you can match whatever.

As another aside, I'd PERSONALLY (this is just me) re-order your list like this:

E (so crucial and can really affect ur experience. You don't want to travel to 15 different states and miss out on audition rotations)
C (Academics/fit --> very important, probably above E actually)
B (why come out with more debt than you have to)
A (preference)
G (discussed above, it is and isn't crucial at the same time)
D (not interested in entering)
F (fun to look at and gauge, but it is up to the student in the end. I've never heard a med student disagree)
 
JaggerPlate said:
You do make a valid point. If you look at a school where 90% of its students go into primary care (IE WVSOM), it's probably saying something. Meaning that the students that go there really want to enter primary care and are training to do so. However, it does not mean that you couldn't enter something else. If you rock grades, steps, do audition rotations, then you can match whatever.

As another aside, I'd PERSONALLY (this is just me) re-order your list like this:

E (so crucial and can really affect ur experience. You don't want to travel to 15 different states and miss out on audition rotations)
C (Academics/fit --> very important, probably above E actually)
B (why come out with more debt than you have to)
A (preference)
G (discussed above, it is and isn't crucial at the same time)
D (not interested in entering)
F (fun to look at and gauge, but it is up to the student in the end. I've never heard a med student disagree)
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I agree. My criteria is basically: Clinical Education, Cost, Curriculum, and Location (I'm versatile). I don't even factor in match lists as a criteria for medical school because its useless. I also don't care about whether the school is gun-ho about primary care unless I only get one elective/audition month, then I have problems.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
I recognize that but most DO schools are primary care oriented. WVSOM, LECOM, ATSU-SOMA, AZCOM, PCOM-GA, KCUMB-COM, LMU-DCOM, NSU-COM, OSU-COM, PNWU-COM, PC-SOM, Touro COM, Edward Via COM and William Carey COM are all primary care focused.
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I don't know what that means. Primary care focused? Does that mean their academics are all geared toward primary care? Because I can tell you that's not true based on friends who are at those schools. The most impressive match list from last year was KCUMB-COM in my opinion with some pretty heavy-hitters in specialties. I'd say 50-60% of the class of 2009 didn't go into primary care. So where are you getting that these schools are primary care focused? Just because they say that in their mission? About 80% of the MD schools say the same thing.
 
Just Joshin said:
I don't know what that means. Primary care focused? Does that mean their academics are all geared toward primary care? Because I can tell you that's not true based on friends who are at those schools. The most impressive match list from last year was KCUMB-COM in my opinion with some pretty heavy-hitters in specialties. I'd say 50-60% of the class of 2009 didn't go into primary care. So where are you getting that these schools are primary care focused? Just because they say that in their mission? About 80% of the MD schools say the same thing.
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true
 
Just Joshin said:
I don't know what that means. Primary care focused? Does that mean their academics are all geared toward primary care? Because I can tell you that's not true based on friends who are at those schools. The most impressive match list from last year was KCUMB-COM in my opinion with some pretty heavy-hitters in specialties. I'd say 50-60% of the class of 2009 didn't go into primary care. So where are you getting that these schools are primary care focused? Just because they say that in their mission? About 80% of the MD schools say the same thing.
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FutureCTDoc feels that by going to these primary care focused schools then that pretty much means that your going to be a primary care doctor. And pretty much if the matchlists is primary care heavy then that also means the schools or the students are not "competitive enough". At least that's how I took the meaning.😎
 
PunkmedGirl said:
FutureCTDoc feels that by going to these primary care focused schools then that pretty much means that your going to be a primary care doctor. And pretty much if the matchlists is primary care heavy then that also means the schools or the students are not "competitive enough". At least that's how I took the meaning.😎
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Then you misunderstood me. If you're Primary care oriented, like I am, you seek out a school that A) Encourages primary care B) Has a match list where you see people actually trend towards primary care C) Understand if 70% of students go primary care then you should be primary care oriented. You can match into derm or ophtho out of a primary care school, it is not the focus of the school and it may be a poor fit. Whether a school is primary care or specialty focused doesn't mean that you can't match into another one, it means it maybe more difficult and you may get less support in your decision. At many primary care oriented schools the 4th year may have requireds or selectives that cut into audition rotations. It's not impossible to match into a specialty it just maybe more difficult.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Then you misunderstood me. If you're Primary care oriented, like I am, you seek out a school that A) Encourages primary care B) Has a match list where you see people actually trend towards primary care C) Understand if 70% of students go primary care then you should be primary care oriented. You can match into derm or ophtho out of a primary care school, it is not the focus of the school and it may be a poor fit. Whether a school is primary care or specialty focused doesn't mean that you can't match into another one, it means it maybe more difficult and you may get less support in your decision. At many primary care oriented schools the 4th year may have requireds or selectives that cut into audition rotations. It's not impossible to match into a specialty it just maybe more difficult.
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What are you basing this on? Because it sounds like rubbish to me.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Then you misunderstood me. If you're Primary care oriented, like I am, you seek out a school that A) Encourages primary care B) Has a match list where you see people actually trend towards primary care C) Understand if 70% of students go primary care then you should be primary care oriented. You can match into derm or ophtho out of a primary care school, it is not the focus of the school and it may be a poor fit. Whether a school is primary care or specialty focused doesn't mean that you can't match into another one, it means it maybe more difficult and you may get less support in your decision. At many primary care oriented schools the 4th year may have requireds or selectives that cut into audition rotations. It's not impossible to match into a specialty it just maybe more difficult.
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That makes no sense. If you goto Harvard Medical School, you won't have less chance at a family medicine residency just because very few Harvard graduates do family medicine....
 
How about http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/ Robert Bowman's website. I'm actually fairly familiar with this as my father was a professor at a primary care oriented medical school. I have my acceptance in hand, have a pleasant cycle and when you're willing to have a discussion with verifiable data, I'd be more than willing to continue this discussion. However this is disintegrating into a screaming match which I no longer wish to participate in.
 
I don't even know what you're trying to say. Are you saying that picking a certain school will lessen your chances of being accepted into a primary care residency?
 
Lokhtar said:
I don't even know what you're trying to say. Are you saying that picking a certain school will lessen your chances of being accepted into a primary care residency?
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No, Future is stating that picking a school that's more primary care focused will lessen your chances of matching into a non-primary care field.
 
My fault - literacy is my friend.

FutureCTDoc is right. The more competitive a school you go to, the better you will look on your resume. While it is true that test scores will matter the most, if you want to go to a competitive specialty, if you and a MD state vs. MD Ivy has the same board scores, it's not rocket science on how you'll be ranked.

You could do DO specialties, but there arne't as many of them, and sometimes there is a problem with joining practices. One practice I shadowed would hire DOs, but only if they completed an ACMGE residency. They viewed it as superior, and while that may just be a false stereotype, I have no idea how common it is. But it's out there.
 
Lokhtar said:
My fault - literacy is my friend.

FutureCTDoc is right. The more competitive a school you go to, the better you will look on your resume. While it is true that test scores will matter the most, if you want to go to a competitive specialty, if you and a MD state vs. MD Ivy has the same board scores, it's not rocket science on how you'll be ranked.

You could do DO specialties, but there arne't as many of them, and sometimes there is a problem with joining practices. One practice I shadowed would hire DOs, but only if they completed an ACMGE residency. They viewed it as superior, and while that may just be a false stereotype, I have no idea how common it is. But it's out there.
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No he's not right and neither are you. The question wasn't about the competitiveness of the school. He said that you will probably go into primary care if you pick a school that is primary care oriented. Most schools in the U.S. both MD and DO are "primary care oriented". Yet plenty turn out anything but primary care physicians. What a school says in a brochure is hogwash. All you have to do is pick up a match list or two to see all these primary care schools churning out people in ALL specialties. And that goes for both DO and MD. As to your anecdotal evidence, that's what it is, anecdotal. I'm certain the two people from LECOM who matched MD ortho would dismiss it in a heartbeat.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
No he's not right and neither are you. The question wasn't about the competitiveness of the school. He said that you will probably go into primary care if you pick a school that is primary care oriented. Most schools in the U.S. both MD and DO are "primary care oriented". Yet plenty turn out anything but primary care physicians. What a school says in a brochure is hogwash. All you have to do is pick up a match list or two to see all these primary care schools churning out people in ALL specialties. And that goes for both DO and MD. As to your anecdotal evidence, that's what it is, anecdotal. I'm certain the two people from LECOM who matched MD ortho would dismiss it in a heartbeat.
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Well, you can keep drinking the Kool-Aid that says WVSOM and a board score will put you on even footing with Columbia and that same board score for that Neurosurgery residency if you want. Reality says something else.

It's not impossible, but it's certainly harder.
 
Lokhtar said:
Well, you can keep drinking the Kool-Aid that says WVSOM and a board score will put you on even footing with Columbia and that same board score for that Neurosurgery residency if you want. Reality says something else.

It's not impossible, but it's certainly harder.
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Well, if that was what I said, I'd probably stick by it. But since that isn't what I said and instead, it's what was grossly misinterpreted by you, I think I'll counter it. I never said what you're implying. What I said was that there's no difference in teaching/preparation you get from a school that says it's primary care focused vs. one that doesn't say it.

The only caveat being that at some research institutions, you get the addition of research requirements/a research year. Aside from that, the education you get from WVSOM will be the same as the education you get from State U. What you did in your example was compare Columbia (an MD school which ample research opportunities) to WVSOM. That isn't a fair comparison. Columbia vs. State U. for neurosurg and Columbia would win. It isn't about school B as much as it is about Columbia.

With that said, let me quote you to you -- literacy is your friend.
 
All osteopathic medical schools want you to go into primary care. Some are less forceful than others. The majority (~60%) of PCOM's graduates specialize. That still doesn't stop me from having a primary care skills class once a week or every other week.
 
Back in the day when I was still trying to figure out the differences between MD and DO schools, I attended a presentation at my university by a carib MD school and the girl giving the presentation (who was being paid by a carib school) said if there was any way at all to get into a US school, do that first.

Basically, american style schools outside the US are for people who get totally rejected, but just really want to get on with going to a school and becoming a doctor. You don't want to waste time, but rushing into those schools can come back and bite you from what some people have told me.

The biggest problem with carib schools is that some states have issues with them, so you really have to be careful.
 
redrok said:
Back in the day when I was still trying to figure out the differences between MD and DO schools, I attended a presentation at my university by a carib MD school and the girl giving the presentation (who was being paid by a carib school) said if there was any way at all to get into a US school, do that first.

Basically, american style schools outside the US are for people who get totally rejected, but just really want to get on with going to a school and becoming a doctor. You don't want to waste time, but rushing into those schools can come back and bite you from what some people have told me.

The biggest problem with carib schools is that some states have issues with them, so you really have to be careful.
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To be fair, a lot of people go to the Caribbean w/o even considering DO schools. They just don't want to deal with the initials after their name. I question the wisdom of that but that's part of the endless debate. Also, many people don't even realize that there is another option. I blame the AOA for that. Nevertheless, there are plenty of well-qualified applicants who would have been accepted to DO schools had they applied.

Also, St. George's University is a good school, and many people have done well after graduation. However, it is unbelievably expensive for a Carib school, and I still think that any school stateside is a way better option.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Then you misunderstood me. If you're Primary care oriented, like I am, you seek out a school that A) Encourages primary care B) Has a match list where you see people actually trend towards primary care C) Understand if 70% of students go primary care then you should be primary care oriented. You can match into derm or ophtho out of a primary care school, it is not the focus of the school and it may be a poor fit. Whether a school is primary care or specialty focused doesn't mean that you can't match into another one, it means it maybe more difficult and you may get less support in your decision. At many primary care oriented schools the 4th year may have requireds or selectives that cut into audition rotations. It's not impossible to match into a specialty it just maybe more difficult.
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You have a very disillusioned view of medical school.
 
Go either MD or DO. Forget the Caribbean, a lot of people I know who went there are now regretting their decision.
 
DocHomer said:
To be fair, a lot of people go to the Caribbean w/o even considering DO schools. They just don't want to deal with the initials after their name. I question the wisdom of that but that's part of the endless debate. Also, many people don't even realize that there is another option. I blame the AOA for that. Nevertheless, there are plenty of well-qualified applicants who would have been accepted to DO schools had they applied.

Also, St. George's University is a good school, and many people have done well after graduation. However, it is unbelievably expensive for a Carib school, and I still think that any school stateside is a way better option.
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I apologize if I was too blunt - I meant generally speaking. I do know of a few people who just loved the idea of going to the Caribbean.

The problem I found was that when someone got rejected, they defaulted to Caribbean schools rather than improving GPA or MCAT scores and having to wait another year to possibly go through cycle again as most Caribbean schools have several matriculation periods throughout the year.

I think if you are one of those kinds of people who loves the idea, just make sure you find out of you can practice in the state you will eventually live. You should really be careful. I do want to add that there is a couple (husband and wife) who both attended an island MD school and practice in my home town, and they are great doctors.
 
redrok said:
I apologize if I was too blunt - I meant generally speaking. I do know of a few people who just loved the idea of going to the Caribbean.

The problem I found was that when someone got rejected, they defaulted to Caribbean schools rather than improving GPA or MCAT scores and having to wait another year to possibly go through cycle again as most Caribbean schools have several matriculation periods throughout the year.

I think if you are one of those kinds of people who loves the idea, just make sure you find out of you can practice in the state you will eventually live. You should really be careful. I do want to add that there is a couple (husband and wife) who both attended an island MD school and practice in my home town, and they are great doctors.
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No worries. You definitely raise some good points though. Some people are way too quick to hop on a flight to some no-name school somewhere in the Caribbean. Apart from a few schools, you will face some additional hurdles in certain states (CA and TX immediately come to mind).
 
Lokhtar said:
That makes no sense. If you goto Harvard Medical School, you won't have less chance at a family medicine residency just because very few Harvard graduates do family medicine....
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Obviously people who graduated from top MD programs are going to get into whatever program they want. DOs will have to work harder to do as well but they clearly have more options than IMGs.
 
RimpleDoc said:
Obviously people who graduated from top MD programs are going to get into whatever program they want. DOs will have to work harder to do as well but they clearly have more options than IMGs.
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I can tell you for a fact that this isn't true. In many cases, a top MD school will work for you, yes. But a friend of mine graduated from Yale last year and got his third choice in the residency match. His first choice took what some would consider to be "lower tier" MD schools. Meanwhile, his second choice program took a DO student, but didn't rank my friend. Right there you have a DO student outranking a Yale MD student.
 
RimpleDoc said:
Obviously people who graduated from top MD programs are going to get into whatever program they want. DOs will have to work harder to do as well but they clearly have more options than IMGs.
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Graduating for an MD school is NOT going to get you into any residency program you want. DOs and MDs work hard to achieve whatever residency or career goals they set for themselves individually.
 
If someone got into Harvard, Stanford, or some other fancy medical school, you are going tell me they are going to have hardships with getting into top residency programs? I don't think so. One DO student was mentioning that UPenn has no DOs in their Pediatric residency, so its obvious that MDs do have some advantage. As for me I just want to practice Medicine and have no big ambitions to become an academic or something else, so I am happy with being a DO.

Regardless, MD or DO, you are going to be a doctor. I have friend who went to Hopkins and his dad is a DO, they now work together in the same office and his had is his boss.
 
RimpleDoc said:
If someone got into Harvard, Stanford, or some other fancy medical school, you are going tell me they are going to have hardships with getting into top residency programs? I don't think so. One DO student was mentioning that UPenn has no DOs in their Pediatric residency, so its obvious that MDs do have some advantage. As for me I just want to practice Medicine and have no big ambitions to become an academic or something else, so I am happy with being a DO.
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Yes, I did just tell you that. If you read my post, you'll see it. As for UPenn, that proves less than nothing, considering there are MANY more MDs out there than there are DOs. Of course there will be some programs that don't have any DOs. It doesn't mean they don't take DOs or that MDs have an advantage. It just means that the program director ranked the candidates he liked and they happened to be MDs.
 
RimpleDoc said:
If someone got into Harvard, Stanford, or some other fancy medical school, you are going tell me they are going to have hardships with getting into top residency programs? I don't think so. One DO student was mentioning that UPenn has no DOs in their Pediatric residency, so its obvious that MDs do have some advantage. As for me I just want to practice Medicine and have no big ambitions to become an academic or something else, so I am happy with being a DO.

Regardless, MD or DO, you are going to be a doctor. I have friend who went to Hopkins and his dad is a DO, they now work together in the same office and his had is his boss.
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You really need to read facts and stop going off of hearsay. It seems like you take one piece of information and conform it into an untrue statement. The DO student you are referring to was later corrected by another DO student who said there is NO pediatric residency at UPENN BUT there is one at the affiliate institution (CHOP) who has graduated DO CHIEF residents.(Prestigious DO thread, post #46)
You quoted another program (Sloan Kettering) as not having any DOs on staff or DO residents when in FACT its one of PCOMs rotation sites and was corrected by the same DO student. (Opinions:general public doesn't know what a DO is? thread post #38) So please if you want to argue about something, make sure you know what you are talking and have all of the facts to back it up.
 
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PunkmedGirl said:
You really need to read facts and stop going off of hearsay. It seems like you take one piece of information and conform it into an untrue statement. The DO student you are referring to was later corrected by another DO student who said there is NO pediatric residency at UPENN BUT there is one at the affiliate institution (CHOP) who has graduated DO CHIEF residents.(Prestigious DO thread, post #46)
You quoted another program (Sloan Kettering) as not having any DOs on staff or DO residents when in FACT its one of PCOMs rotation sites and was corrected by the same DO student. (Opinions:general public doesn't know what a DO is? thread) So please if you want to argue about something, make sure you know what you are talking and have all of the facts to back it up.
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Nice one, PunkmedGirl.
 
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