MD/DO residency

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I also agree, but I think it should be open to US grads only.
 
medsRus said:
Completely unfair...
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True, but how many American allopathic grads would want to train in a osteopathic program? I understand you are desperate Medstudentquest, but even if the DO match was open to American MD students, my guess is that the least competitive/weakest students would be the only ones interested.
 
chitown82 said:
True, but how many American allopathic grads would want to train in a osteopathic program? I understand you are desperate Medstudentquest, but even if the DO match was open to American MD students, my guess is that the least competitive/weakest students would be the only ones interested.
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How is it appropriate that DO's take up MD spots? I have never thought about doing an osteo training program, but then again I never thought I'd ever need to. Don't DO's frequently do this though? If they don't get a spot in the MD match, they try to go the DO route. MD students go unmatched every year. This year, >1,000.
 
chitown82 said:
True, but how many American allopathic grads would want to train in a osteopathic program? I understand you are desperate Medstudentquest, but even if the DO match was open to American MD students, my guess is that the least competitive/weakest students would be the only ones interested.
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I'd bet all the competitive specialties would have both MD and DO applicants regardless of their affiliation. For example: 5 MD ortho programs in chicago and 1 DO...for someone who wanted to stay within the city, why wouldn't they apply to all 6? I know I would and I bet many others would as well.
 
I agree that there should be a combined match, but I don't see this happening any time soon. If there is enough uproar, maybe the powers-that-be will do something about it, but even then it would take several years to implement. At the end of the day, PD's can take whomever they want: MD, DO or IMG. If a DO or IMG gets selected, I'm sure there's a reason for it (i.e. better credentials).

With the increase in enrollment in allopathic schools, there will probably be less DO's and IMG's matching allo in the coming years anyway, whether that's viewed as good or bad, I don't know.
 
Medstudentquest said:
How is it appropriate that DO's take up MD spots? I have never thought about doing an osteo training program, but then again I never thought I'd ever need to. Don't DO's frequently do this though? If they don't get a spot in the MD match, they try to go the DO route. MD students go unmatched every year. This year, >1,000.
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Can I call the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-bulance for you?

Look, another whining thread started by MSQ...

dear_god_stop.jpg
 
Well, I suppose if the DO residency involves osteopathic manipulative treatment, it would be a tough fit for an MD. That is at least one reason that is not centered around guild protectionism.
 
billw said:
Well, I suppose if the DO residency involves osteopathic manipulative treatment, it would be a tough fit for an MD. That is at least one reason that is not centered around guild protectionism.
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I highly doubt that DO residencies in most fields truly involve manipulative treatment. 🙂 Then again, if in order to be a DO they have to continue their "manipulative" training, why are they allowed in MD programs?
 
As a DO, I completely agree with the above posts that MD's should be allowed to do the DO match. I only applied for DO spots because I knew it would be less competitive and took advantage of that fact. There was no way in hell I was getting an allopathic EM residency. I also wanted to keep the mothership (AOA) happy.

At the same time, I always thought it was hypocritical that DO's whine and bitch that we get no respect from MDs, and blah blah blah. At the same time, we take MD spots, and in most cases get preference over IMGs at allopathic programs. Then what do we do? We won't allow anyone but DOs apply to our programs. And, every year, there are less DO residency spots than there are grads, but we only fill about 2/3 of our spots, because about 50% of osteopathic grads go into allopathic programs.

How can it be fixed? There was talk about 2 years ago of many osteopathic programs closing and losing funding because of poor match rates. One solution that was heavily discussed was opening our programs to allopathic grads, but haven't heard much about it since. I think another idea would be to make it a requirement for DOs to participate in the osteo match to participate in the allopathic match, but people would probably just rank a program they know they won't match at to make sure they participate in the allopathic match.

As far as the comments about OMM training go, there are many MDs that want to learn OMM (one reason is that it is reimbursed really well). Secondly, less than 1% of what I do is OMM. I could probably train a monkey to learn basic OMM to be honest. Someone who did zero OMM in med school could get through an osteopathic residency. And to be honest, unless you are doing FM or an actual OMM residency, you are not going to do OMM in residency.

I think there is fear from the AOA that if we open up our programs to non-DOs, DOs will go unmatched. I'm sure if there was one combined match, there would be enough spots to go around (especially if AMGs are given preference to IMGs). I think more qualified graduates would get the more competitive residencies that they deserve, and at the same time, the AOA would get more of what it wants, more FP spots filling.
 
Drawing Dead said:
As a DO, I completely agree with the above posts that MD's should be allowed to do the DO match. I only applied for DO spots because I knew it would be less competitive and took advantage of that fact. There was no way in hell I was getting an allopathic EM residency. I also wanted to keep the mothership (AOA) happy.

At the same time, I always thought it was hypocritical that DO's whine and bitch that we get no respect from MDs, and blah blah blah. At the same time, we take MD spots, and in most cases get preference over IMGs at allopathic programs. Then what do we do? We won't allow anyone but DOs apply to our programs. And, every year, there are less DO residency spots than there are grads, but we only fill about 2/3 of our spots, because about 50% of osteopathic grads go into allopathic programs.

How can it be fixed? There was talk about 2 years ago of many osteopathic programs closing and losing funding because of poor match rates. One solution that was heavily discussed was opening our programs to allopathic grads, but haven't heard much about it since. I think another idea would be to make it a requirement for DOs to participate in the osteo match to participate in the allopathic match, but people would probably just rank a program they know they won't match at to make sure they participate in the allopathic match.

As far as the comments about OMM training go, there are many MDs that want to learn OMM (one reason is that it is reimbursed really well). Secondly, less than 1% of what I do is OMM. I could probably train a monkey to learn basic OMM to be honest. Someone who did zero OMM in med school could get through an osteopathic residency. And to be honest, unless you are doing FM or an actual OMM residency, you are not going to do OMM in residency.

I think there is fear from the AOA that if we open up our programs to non-DOs, DOs will go unmatched. I'm sure if there was one combined match, there would be enough spots to go around (especially if AMGs are given preference to IMGs). I think more qualified graduates would get the more competitive residencies that they deserve, and at the same time, the AOA would get more of what it wants, more FP spots filling.
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Right on!! There is a double standard as you mention, and it would only make sense that either DO spots are opened up for everyone or that DO's only apply to DO spots. I think a combined match for US grads would make the most sense . Even if you think about spots ultra competitive specialties like Derm, if they made them simply derm spots as opposed to DO spots, alot more people could be accomodated. That goes for most specialties. I don't understand why there aren't enough residency positions for all graduates. why are there less residency positions than grads?
 
medstudentrequest
There are not less residency positions that grads. There are still more residency positions than there are graduates. That is why we have so many US IMG and FMG (foreign citizen docs) in US residencies. I don't think opening up DO derm residencies to allopathic graduates would do much for the DO graduates...it might cause more DO students to not match into dermatology, which the AOA would not like. Why should the AOA allow that when it might hurt their own students? There are a lot more allopathic students than DO students, so the sheer numbers of allopathic derm applicants might overwhelm the number of DO applicants.

drawingdead,
Your post was very interesting. I had no idea that a large number of DO residencies go unfilled every year. It seems like if the AOA wanted to fill them, they would just open up their match to other grads (i.e. US allopathic and IMG and FMG's), or if they fear the competition will hurt their DO graduates, perhaps have a second round of the DO match that is open to US MD grads, IMG's and FMG's. You can bet there are some FMG's who would take those fp or internal medicine residency spots...
 
dragonfly99 said:
medstudentrequest
There are not less residency positions that grads. There are still more residency positions than there are graduates. That is why we have so many US IMG and FMG (foreign citizen docs) in US residencies. I don't think opening up DO derm residencies to allopathic graduates would do much for the DO graduates...it might cause more DO students to not match into dermatology, which the AOA would not like. Why should the AOA allow that when it might hurt their own students? There are a lot more allopathic students than DO students, so the sheer numbers of allopathic derm applicants might overwhelm the number of DO applicants.

drawingdead,
Your post was very interesting. I had no idea that a large number of DO residencies go unfilled every year. It seems like if the AOA wanted to fill them, they would just open up their match to other grads (i.e. US allopathic and IMG and FMG's), or if they fear the competition will hurt their DO graduates, perhaps have a second round of the DO match that is open to US MD grads, IMG's and FMG's. You can bet there are some FMG's who would take those fp or internal medicine residency spots...
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Dragonfly,

Just thought I'd mention, in a nice way, that you called me "Medstudent *request*" -just thought it was funny. My point with the DO residency issue is that just like the other poster said, many of their spots go unfilled. Why? Because half of DO's go into allopathic programs.

So what is the point of them double dipping, and then potentially having MD US students not match, and then the DO programs not letting MD students go into their programs? Seems kind of asinine to me. How does it work then, that DO's end up not matching? Since they can apply to both MD and DO programs, and you say there are enough residency positions, then no DO student should go unmatched.

As I see it, by having DO students applying to MD programs as well, there are MD students that may end up with no position because of that. By looking at this year's match, there were >1000 US MD grads that did not match. If the unfilled DO positions were open to everyone, then maybe very few US students would have gone unmatched, no?
 
I understand some of the logic behind MD students complaining about not being able to apply for DO residency positions but I don't think they are really looking at the whole picture. In order to apply for a DO residency position, you have to forgo the allopathic match if you match into a DO residency. How many allopathic grads/IMGs would want to do that?! Unless they are certain they are not going to match allopathic, they would rarely pick this option. Unfortunately, the people that did not match this year sounded quite surprised that they didn't so they may not even have applied this route if they had the chance. That is why many DO students don't apply to the DO programs along with the fact that the location and specialty can be severely limited. I don't know a ton about other specialties but I do know there are only a handful of pediatrics residencies in the entire DO match! Further, if you are a DO and you decide to forgo the osteopathic match and then don't match in the allopathic match, you are left with the leftovers of FM in Montana or whatever didn't fill in the osteopathic match. Even then you aren't guaranteed anything, all of the osteopathic grads that applied for the DO match and didn't match have already scrambled for the desireable spots. You're left with the most picked over spots in a specialty you may not even want. I would think spending a year bolstering your application would be more appealing to many but who knows......Bottom line, the grass is always greener on the other side but the people complaining rarely know all the details behind what they're requesting. I just thought of something else....as osteopathic students, many of us take USMLE step I (and a smaller proportion also take USMLE step 2) just to prove that we aren't "below" the allopathic grads. I know there are some students that get away with just taking the COMLEX and match into an allopathic residency position, but I would argue that number is going to continue to decrease as the competitiveness of the match increases. Would allopathic students be willing to fork over an extra $600 to take the COMLEX and study OMM (there's not a lot but enough to lower your score if you have no clue about OMM) in order for the chance to apply for osteopathic residency positions. Highly doubt it.
 
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Medstudentquest said:
How is it appropriate that DO's take up MD spots? I have never thought about doing an osteo training program, but then again I never thought I'd ever need to. Don't DO's frequently do this though? If they don't get a spot in the MD match, they try to go the DO route. MD students go unmatched every year. This year, >1,000.
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Um, this isn't accurate. The AOA match is before the ACGME match. So DOs that try for ACGME spots have already skipped the AOA match, so if a DO doesn't know before the AOA match if (s)he would get an ACGME spot or not. So DOs can't try for an MD spot and then take a DO spot if they don't match.

Seriously though, how are DOs taking up spots in the match? It's not like DOs frequently match into residencies that are really tough to get anyway. How often do you see DOs in ACGME ortho, derm, etc? This past year I think only two DOs matched ACGME ortho...they're probably pretty incredible students. Does seem like a double standard, but honestly DOs are just (for the most part) taking residencies that anyone could get anyway.
 
stonewall22 said:
Um, this isn't accurate. The AOA match is before the ACGME match. So DOs that try for ACGME spots have already skipped the AOA match, so if a DO doesn't know before the AOA match if (s)he would get an ACGME spot or not. So DOs can't try for an MD spot and then take a DO spot if they don't match.

Seriously though, how are DOs taking up spots in the match? It's not like DOs frequently match into residencies that are really tough to get anyway. How often do you see DOs in ACGME ortho, derm, etc? This past year I think only two DOs matched ACGME ortho...they're probably pretty incredible students. Does seem like a double standard, but honestly DOs are just (for the most part) taking residencies that anyone could get anyway.
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Obviously, DO students are getting spots that some allopathic grads want because they're complaining about it! :idea:
Plus, I don't really appreciate some pre-med talking about how DO students only get positions "anyone" can get. Go to medical school first then you can tell me how much "better" you are.:laugh: Plus Stonewall, you're on the 2009 DO match list thread, talking about how great the match lists are......talk about hypocrisy
 
Medstudentquest said:
Dragonfly,

Just thought I'd mention, in a nice way, that you called me "Medstudent *request*" -just thought it was funny. My point with the DO residency issue is that just like the other poster said, many of their spots go unfilled. Why? Because half of DO's go into allopathic programs.

So what is the point of them double dipping, and then potentially having MD US students not match, and then the DO programs not letting MD students go into their programs? Seems kind of asinine to me. How does it work then, that DO's end up not matching? Since they can apply to both MD and DO programs, and you say there are enough residency positions, then no DO student should go unmatched.

As I see it, by having DO students applying to MD programs as well, there are MD students that may end up with no position because of that. By looking at this year's match, there were >1000 US MD grads that did not match. If the unfilled DO positions were open to everyone, then maybe very few US students would have gone unmatched, no?
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Yes, maybe there were over 1000 US allo grads unmatched, but how many scrambled and ultimately found spots. You have to look at it from the program's point of view too. Some programs are strictly under the belief that they take MDs, and no one else. Other programs who take DOs, are going to take the best applicants for them, regardless of the letters after their name. This is why DOs are even allowed to participate in the allo match.

Bitsy said:
I understand some of the logic behind MD students complaining about not being able to apply for DO residency positions but I don't think they are really looking at the whole picture. In order to apply for a DO residency position, you have to forgo the allopathic match if you match into a DO residency. How many allopathic grads/IMGs would want to do that?! Unless they are certain they are not going to match allopathic, they would rarely pick this option. Unfortunately, the people that did not match this year sounded quite surprised that they didn't so they may not even have applied this route if they had the chance. That is why many DO students don't apply to the DO programs along with the fact that the location and specialty can be severely limited. I don't know a ton about other specialties but I do know there are only a handful of pediatrics residencies in the entire DO match! Further, if you are a DO and you decide to forgo the osteopathic match and then don't match in the allopathic match, you are left with the leftovers of FM in Montana or whatever didn't fill in the osteopathic match. Even then you aren't guaranteed anything, all of the osteopathic grads that applied for the DO match and didn't match have already scrambled for the desireable spots. You're left with the most picked over spots in a specialty you may not even want. I would think spending a year bolstering your application would be more appealing to many but who knows......Bottom line, the grass is always greener on the other side but the people complaining rarely know all the details behind what they're requesting. I just thought of something else....as osteopathic students, many of us take USMLE step I (and a smaller proportion also take USMLE step 2) just to prove that we aren't "below" the allopathic grads. I know there are some students that get away with just taking the COMLEX and match into an allopathic residency position, but I would argue that number is going to continue to decrease as the competitiveness of the match increases. Would allopathic students be willing to fork over an extra $600 to take the COMLEX and study OMM (there's not a lot but enough to lower your score if you have no clue about OMM) in order for the chance to apply for osteopathic residency positions. Highly doubt it.
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The USMLE is actually becoming required less by many allopathic residencies for osteo students. If you want allo FM, IM, Peds, EM, Path, a DO student probably won't need the USMLE, but it also is program specific. The ROAD specialities on the other hand, will probably always require USMLE scores.

And not for nothing, if I was a US allo grad, and couldn't match or scramble into an allo residency, I would gladly choose from a pool of the most picked over spots left than deal with the alternative, not having a residency spot at all. Plus, if the AOA match was opened up to allo grads, it would probably require a combined match on the same day. This would probably require the AOA getting ALL of these allo programs dually accredited.

On a seperate note, I just thought of something. If an allo grad REALLY wanted to do an AOA residency, they could do a program that is dually AOA/ACGME accredited. Now most of these programs are in FM, but there are like 4 EM and a handful of IM programs that exist like this too. Other specialties, I'm not so sure about.
 
Bitsy said:
Obviously, DO students are getting spots that some allopathic grads want because they're complaining about it! :idea:
Plus, I don't really appreciate some pre-med talking about how DO students only get positions "anyone" can get. Go to medical school first then you can tell me how much "better" you are.:laugh: Plus Stonewall, you're on the 2009 DO match list thread, talking about how great the match lists are......talk about hypocrisy
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The OP, based on his comments later, appeared to want an ortho spot. Hmm, not many DOs taking ACGME ortho spots.

Did I write something I'm not aware of? I don't recall saying I was better than anyone. I know the easy and popular thing to do is to tell a pre-med to go to school first, yada, yada, yada, that doesn't mean I'm clueless, and medical school clearly hasn't helped your reading comprehension since you think I was saying I was better than you, or anyone else.

You mention pediatrics...so I'm assuming that's what you're interested in because you suggest you don't know about other fields. Well, it doesn't take a student or physician to know that pediatrics isn't an uber-competitive field. That doesn't mean I was saying you're not smart, just that there are plenty of spots to go around.
 
Medstudentquest said:
Dragonfly,

Just thought I'd mention, in a nice way, that you called me "Medstudent *request*" -just thought it was funny. My point with the DO residency issue is that just like the other poster said, many of their spots go unfilled. Why? Because half of DO's go into allopathic programs.

So what is the point of them double dipping, and then potentially having MD US students not match, and then the DO programs not letting MD students go into their programs? Seems kind of asinine to me. How does it work then, that DO's end up not matching? Since they can apply to both MD and DO programs, and you say there are enough residency positions, then no DO student should go unmatched.

As I see it, by having DO students applying to MD programs as well, there are MD students that may end up with no position because of that. By looking at this year's match, there were >1000 US MD grads that did not match. If the unfilled DO positions were open to everyone, then maybe very few US students would have gone unmatched, no?
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Well-qualifed AMG MD students who fill in their ROL correctly usually do not have a problem matching (at the very least to a preliminary year program)
 
stonewall22 said:
Um, this isn't accurate. The AOA match is before the ACGME match. So DOs that try for ACGME spots have already skipped the AOA match, so if a DO doesn't know before the AOA match if (s)he would get an ACGME spot or not. So DOs can't try for an MD spot and then take a DO spot if they don't match.

Seriously though, how are DOs taking up spots in the match? It's not like DOs frequently match into residencies that are really tough to get anyway. How often do you see DOs in ACGME ortho, derm, etc? This past year I think only two DOs matched ACGME ortho...they're probably pretty incredible students. Does seem like a double standard, but honestly DOs are just (for the most part) taking residencies that anyone could get anyway.
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It was my understanding, and I have even seen it on this board, that there were some DO students that applied through the MD match and did not match, and then they took a rotating internship or whatever it's called in the DO match. That's sort of like double dipping. I agree with you that I don't see a multitude of DO's in ultra competitive t hings like ortho, ophtho, derm, etc. But it seems like a double standard nevertheless to me.
 
asmallchild said:
Well-qualifed AMG MD students who fill in their ROL correctly usually do not have a problem matching (at the very least to a preliminary year program)
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Likely, but still-if there are spots open in the DO match, how would it hurt? I believe there is a hospital that's in a great location, close to where I live, that has open positions, but they are DO only. I can't apply, and the spots are still open. How does that help anyone?
 
Medstudentquest said:
Likely, but still-if there are spots open in the DO match, how would it hurt? I believe there is a hospital that's in a great location, close to where I live, that has open positions, but they are DO only. I can't apply, and the spots are still open. How does that help anyone?
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That's true, it is a shame they would let a spot like that go to waste.
 
I am a DO and I agree that it really isn't fair that DO residencies aren't open to MDs. I think it would help both sides if MDs could do osteopathic residencies. In addition to letting MDs have more training options, it would also help with the increasing integration and acceptance of DOs when more MDs saw that the training we both undergo is equivalent.
In the meantime though, I definitely hope that a good MD position opens up for you soon, medstudentquest!!
 
medstudentquest,
the others are correct.
One cannot simultaneously apply to a MD and DO residencies...the 4th year DO students have to decide to go for one of the matches vs. the other. However, ones who don't match in the allo match often take leftover spots (that didn't fill in the DO match) as I understand it.

I agree with asmallchild. Competitive allopathic students rarely end up with no internship spot, unless they didn't understand how to make their rank list or they didn't interview at enough places. 1000 is a lot of unmatched students though...it shows that a lot of people didn't understand the match, and/or greatly misjudged their competitiveness in the match. It looks like med schools need to work on advising students more strongly to rank more places and/or have a backup plan if applying to a competitive specialty.

I do agree to some extent that the DO students have more options if they fall through the match (either the allo or DO one). However, they start off with fewer options as far as competitive specialties go, so overall they are not better off. I think the issue of DO residencies not accepting allopathic students is probably an issue of not having ability to do so, too, rather than just not wanting to. I mean, if the DO hospitals can't get the accrediting body that accredits allo residencies to accept training @the DO hospital then the DO hospital can't accept allo grads. For example, if you went and did an osteo rotating internship, it wouldn't count as an intern year for your allpathic derm training, so it wouldn't help you anyway.
 
dragonfly99 said:
medstudentquest,
the others are correct.
One cannot simultaneously apply to a MD and DO residencies...the 4th year DO students have to decide to go for one of the matches vs. the other. However, ones who don't match in the allo match often take leftover spots (that didn't fill in the DO match) as I understand it.
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Dragonfly - you are incorrect. They can apply and interview for both. They can enter a ROL for the DO match (which happens before the allo match). If they match then they are withdrawn from the allo match. If they don't match or if they don't enter a rank list for the DO match, then they are eligible for the allow match.
 
SoCuteMD said:
Dragonfly - you are incorrect. They can apply and interview for both. They can enter a ROL for the DO match (which happens before the allo match). If they match then they are withdrawn from the allo match. If they don't match or if they don't enter a rank list for the DO match, then they are eligible for the allow match.
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SoCuteMD is correct.
 
peppy said:
I am a DO and I agree that it really isn't fair that DO residencies aren't open to MDs. I think it would help both sides if MDs could do osteopathic residencies. In addition to letting MDs have more training options, it would also help with the increasing integration and acceptance of DOs when more MDs saw that the training we both undergo is equivalent.
In the meantime though, I definitely hope that a good MD position opens up for you soon, medstudentquest!!
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At this point, I have kind of given up. I don't think it's going to happen.
Did you get a psych/prelim spot?
 
......
 
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Add me to the list who believes something should be changed/tweaked so that MD students could also match osteo if they wanted. More than that I think that for GME we should just join forces and combine everything into one match... I know it's a pipe dream.

For anyone who has access to the JAOA, this latest issue has a few articles regarding graduate medical education, including an article outlining dually accredited programs that I found helpful. I knew that they existed but not much more than that, definitely didn't know that approved slots could be moved back and forth between the osteo and allo "sides" of the program.
 
Bitsy said:
...In order to apply for a DO residency position, you have to forgo the allopathic match if you match into a DO residency. How many allopathic grads/IMGs would want to do that?! Unless they are certain they are not going to match allopathic, they would rarely pick this option. ...
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"Rarely" is not zero. Even if just one person wanted to do this, fairness dictates that the doors should swing both ways. If osteos want to participate in the allo match, it should be a necessary corollary that allos can participate in the osteo match, even if none ever choose to do so (which I kind of doubt). Or else folks in the osteo world can't complain that significant preference is given to US allo students in the US allo match, because it's nothing like the 100% preference given to osteos in the osteo match.
 
wow...I stand corrected.
If the DO's can participate in both matches, then it is "double dipping". Hmmm...yes it seems unfair. Maybe that is why some allo PD's won't consider DO students?
 
Today I saw a derm resident with DO behind their name.

After I have read this thread, I think it was a beautiful sight.......
 
Tigerz_Fan said:
Today I saw a derm resident with DO behind their name.

After I have read this thread, I think it was a beautiful sight.......
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Are you sure they weren't some cyborg from another planet? Also, let's keep this under wraps because if some of these pre-med students see this their heads might explode! :laugh:

On a more serious note, 👍 to the resident!
 
Medstudentquest said:
Are you a DO? If you are, your institution may not have DO derm residencies, but some institutions do.

See here:

https://services.aamc.org/eras/erasstats/par/display8.cfm?NAV_ROW=PAR&SPEC_CD=O11
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No. I am an US-IMG and proud of it. I very much remember when you attacked IMG/FMG for taking the residency slots. And now you are revealing your opinion about DOs.

No, my institution does not have any osteopathic residencies. My point is: this resident is a DO in one of the most competitive allopathic residencies.

Oh, and

SNAP!
 
Tigerz_Fan said:
No. I am an US-IMG and proud of it. I very much remember when you attacked IMG/FMG for taking the residency slots. And now you are revealing your opinion about DOs.

No, my institution does not have any osteopathic residencies. My point is: this resident is a DO in one of the most competitive allopathic residencies.

Oh, and

SNAP!
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I'm not sure what your point is. This DO with a derm residency likely has it because he/she went to a DO program, where MD students cannot apply. I find it silly that you have a chip on your shoulder because you are a US-IMG. Why be so defensive about it? If you are so proud of it, good for you. The reality is the reality, if you want to deny it, so be it. Getting into med school in the US is tough, and if you didn't get in, well that's unfortunate, but that's the reality. Don't blame others because you couldn't get in a med school in the US. The fact that you write something like this shows that you are very defensive about being an IMG. Deal with it.

And progressively as you saw from this match and countless other people have stated, IMG's/FMG's will be able to match less and less. If you want to deny that as well, be my guest.

My opinion about DO's? I am making a clear cut exploration of the facts.
They shouldn't double dip, and if they are allowed to apply to BOTH MD and DO residencies, so should MD's if they so choose. It's that simple. As scientists, we are supposed to be able to explore a problem and see the facts. Maybe you missed that for some reason.
 
dragonfly99 said:
wow...I stand corrected.
If the DO's can participate in both matches, then it is "double dipping". Hmmm...yes it seems unfair. Maybe that is why some allo PD's won't consider DO students?
Click to expand...

The only way DOs can participate in both matches is if they do the DO match and fail to match, then go into the allo match. A successful AOA match automatically removes you from the NRMP match.

What DOs can (and sometimes) do is, if they fail to match in the allo match, go back and pick up one of the (relatively numerous, compared to the allo match) unfilled spots in DO programs.
 
Medstudentquest said:
I find it silly that you have a chip on your shoulder because you are a US-IMG. Why be so defensive about it? If you are so proud of it, good for you.
Click to expand...

You are an idiot, a hypocrite, and a worthless piece of poop on this message board. See post here, here, and here

You have criticized IMGs, DO students, PDs, Advisors, Med Students, My Mom, His Grandma, Her aunts and uncles, and everyone's dog on previous posts.

Face the facts you are too stupid to get into residency because you can't create a rank order list that would have allowed you to at least get a pre-lim spot. Plus, how stupid can you be not to read the rules and figure out what you need to bring for the Step 2CS exam? See post here

That's why the previous poster is happy you didn't match. Unfortunately you are too dumb to realize it.

Oh...I imagine you will report this post as abusive...
 
Last edited:
gutonc said:
The only way DOs can participate in both matches is if they do the DO match and fail to match, then go into the allo match. A successful AOA match automatically removes you from the NRMP match.

What DOs can (and sometimes) do is, if they fail to match in the allo match, go back and pick up one of the (relatively numerous, compared to the allo match) unfilled spots in DO programs.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
 
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