MD/JD Programs

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Prestons_babe

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I am looking to start school in order to obtain my MD/JD. I am passionate about becoming a psychiatrist (MD), and opening my own psychiatric institution. I feel like my JD would assist greatly with that, and even with working with insurance companies, etc. What are your thoughts? Do you think there is an easier way to go about that without having to obtain my JD? I'm thinking the JD is going to be more beneficial more for the knowledge that I would be obtaining, rather than the fact that I could practice law as an attorney.

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I am looking to start school in order to obtain my MD/JD. I am passionate about becoming a psychiatrist (MD), and opening my own psychiatric institution. I feel like my JD would assist greatly with that, and even with working with insurance companies, etc. What are your thoughts? Do you think there is an easier way to go about that without having to obtain my JD? I'm thinking the JD is going to be more beneficial more for the knowledge that I would be obtaining, rather than the fact that I could practice law as an attorney.
Probably could learn enough law on your own time to deal with insurance companies. youll just have to spend a lot of time learning things that have little to do with your end goal.
 
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I've pondered MD/JD programs, because of my interest in policy work and perhaps a future in politics. Does anyone think that there are scenarios in which an MD/JD would be worth the extra time?
 
I've pondered MD/JD programs, because of my interest in policy work and perhaps a future in politics. Does anyone think that there are scenarios in which an MD/JD would be worth the extra time?

MD/JD is usually for lawyers that need medical knowledge rather than doctors that need an understanding of law. In other words, it’s usually malpractice lawyers that advocate on either the patient’s or doctor’s behalf.
 
A psychiatric institution? What, exactly, do you have in mind?

You don't need a JD to do private practice.

A JD and MD are rarely useful. You can almost never use both degrees in a career. You will use one or the other.

Unless you want to sue doctors for malpractice. In that case, **** off (haha, I kid...).
 
A psychiatric institution? What, exactly, do you have in mind?

You don't need a JD to do private practice.

A JD and MD are rarely useful. You can almost never use both degrees in a career. You will use one or the other.

Unless you want to sue doctors for malpractice. In that case, **** off (haha, I kid...).

On the flipside, MD/JD's can advocate on the doctor's behalf rather than the patient
 
On the flipside, MD/JD's can advocate on the doctor's behalf rather than the patient
would you hire someone that learned about heart surgery in school and never performed it to perform heart surgery on yourself? No , when you have a specialized problem you hire the best specialist to solve it for you. A good med mal defense lawyer is going to be much better at advocating for you.
 
would you hire someone that learned about heart surgery in school and never performed it to perform heart surgery on yourself? No , when you have a specialized problem you hire the best specialist to solve it for you. A good med mal defense lawyer is going to be much better at advocating for you.

Why do you think an MD/JD can't be a good med malpractice defense lawyer compared to a JD only? Why do you not think the MD degree offers an advantage in this scenario?
 
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Why do you think an MD/JD can't be a good med malpractice defense lawyer compared to a JD only? Why do you not think the MD degree offers an advantage in this scenario?
Because these things require deep expertise. That requires education and experience. A person cannot simultaneously become a master in both. A jack of all trades is a master of none. Either the person is going to loose all medical training by attrition , or is going to loose all legal expertise by attrition. And if you practice half law half medicine you will only be half as good as the person who practices his/her craft full time.
 
Because these things require deep expertise. That requires education and experience. A person cannot simultaneously become a master in both. A jack of all trades is a master of none. Either the person is going to loose all medical training by attrition , or is going to loose all legal expertise by attrition. And if you practice half law half medicine you will only be half as good as the person who practices his/her craft full time.

You are assuming that mastery in both fields is needed which is incorrect. A good doctor may know the general principles of physics and chemistry as they relate to medical concepts to better understand physical forces that make up the human body, but the doctor need not be a "master" in physics to gain a physical understanding of medicine.
 
I've met two MD/JDs. One was a health law professor who got the JD after doing a year of residency and realizing clinical medicine wasnt for them. Another got a big scholarship to do the JD and did it with his MD. He does clinical medicine fulltime now but worked for the FDA for a bit before doing fellowship.

Pick one or the other IMO.
 
You are assuming that mastery in both fields is needed which is incorrect. A good doctor may know the general principles of physics and chemistry as they relate to medical concepts to better understand physical forces that make up the human body, but the doctor need not be a "master" in physics to gain a physical understanding of medicine.
I would suggest you ask any practicing attending physician that is not a geneticist to draw out the krebs cycle or bernoulli's equation. This will provide you with part of the answer. If you dont use it , you in all liklihood willl not retain it.

If your argument that MD/JD's make better med mal attorneys was true we would only be hiring med mal attorneys and they would be very prominent at the top of their fields. I dont believe this is the case. Do you ask your plumber if they are an electriction too?

The practicing attorney that does med mal cases will have no idea what the standard of care is in a particular specialty because they would not be able to keep up with changes .
 
I know one doctor who has a DO, JD, MBA, MPH, and MEM. She works as a medical director for several insurance companies in the area and does not spend a significant amount of time working in a clinic (she does spend a few weeks a year working at a camp). Unless you want to be that type of doctor spending most of your time doing administrative tasks you are better off just getting your MD.
 
You definitely do not need a law degree to do what you are asking. Heck in many states (my own included) you don’t even need a law degree to practice law (look up reading the law). MD/JD programs are rare and for good reason. There is little incentive in getting both degrees.
 
A person cannot simultaneously become a master in both. A jack of all trades is a master of none.

Hey Man, I love you, but the full saying is "a jack of all trades, master of none, but better than master of one". I still get your point, though.
 
I know two people with JD/MD.

First guy thought a law degree would help him look good when he applied for dermatology residency. It worked for him.

The other guy was a lawyer who hated law. He went back and got an MD. He was able to take a few cases while in medical school to help pay for school... but that may have contributed to him remediating 1-2 classes.

Edit: neither of them plans to ever use their law degrees
 
I am looking to start school in order to obtain my MD/JD. I am passionate about becoming a psychiatrist (MD), and opening my own psychiatric institution. I feel like my JD would assist greatly with that, and even with working with insurance companies, etc. What are your thoughts? Do you think there is an easier way to go about that without having to obtain my JD? I'm thinking the JD is going to be more beneficial more for the knowledge that I would be obtaining, rather than the fact that I could practice law as an attorney.

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me.
 
I'll start off by saying that I earned my JD a while back (non-practicing though), so I'm coming from the legal pov rather than the medical one. I don't know what MDs think about it, but I really don't understand why MD/JD joint programs exist. The fact that they do is undoubtedly misleading.

I am looking to start school in order to obtain my MD/JD. I am passionate about becoming a psychiatrist (MD), and opening my own psychiatric institution. I feel like my JD would assist greatly with that, and even with working with insurance companies, etc. What are your thoughts? Do you think there is an easier way to go about that without having to obtain my JD? I'm thinking the JD is going to be more beneficial more for the knowledge that I would be obtaining, rather than the fact that I could practice law as an attorney.

I think that you should try to be much more specific regarding exactly how you think a JD would help you achieve these goals. Really specific--like which classes and which skills taught in law school do you believe would translate to these activities, and why. TBH, I'm not seeing the connection. Running an institution depends more on organizational management skills (more like what you'd get in an MBA or even HR program) than legal knowledge. Working with insurance companies is much more an administrative function than a legal one.

Are you interested in forensic psychiatry?

Because these things require deep expertise. That requires education and experience. A person cannot simultaneously become a master in both. A jack of all trades is a master of none. Either the person is going to loose all medical training by attrition , or is going to loose all legal expertise by attrition. And if you practice half law half medicine you will only be half as good as the person who practices his/her craft full time.

The practicing attorney that does med mal cases will have no idea what the standard of care is in a particular specialty because they would not be able to keep up with changes .


I completely agree with these points, particularly the bolded portions. There is no reason for anyone to attend law school unless they wish to actually practice law, meaning that they intend to do things that one needs bar admission to do. But more to the point, both the JD and MD are professional, not academic, degrees. They are designed to teach a skillset beyond just imparting knowledge. Neither a JD nor an MD is qualified to practice independently right upon graduation. The postgraduate training process is formalized for MDs through residency, but the same thing exists informally for JDs. New attorneys do a lot of low level, highly supervised work during their early years. This is why you don't see newly minted lawyers immediately opening up their own practices unless they've had extensive experience in a particular area before law school. This means that unless you actually go into legal practice and accumulate years of experience, you will not have the knowledge of a practicing lawyer and will still need to hire one with experience in that area to ensure that you are adequately managing risk.

Regarding medical malpractice (if that is a factor in this), expert witnesses are those who have extensive experience practicing in their fields, as the court is interested in understanding what a "reasonable professional" would have done in a given situation. As libertyne said, only those who have significant experience and remain current in their fields will have credibility speaking to that. Having a JD would not make someone a better expert witness, since witnesses are only called upon to testify to their particular realm of knowledge, the standard in that particular field rather than to legal standards.

Not to discourage you from an MD/JD program, but I would spend time talking to professors, professionals and also admissions counselors about what others have done with this combination.
 
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MD/JD's are rarely experts (in either). I have never seen one called to testify in court.

One of my old attendings from residency was an MD/JD and worked as an expert witness on the side. But he was probably the exception not the rule.

I do agree that people with dual degrees tend to not be great with either since they dont do enough of either.
 
I think the MD/JD sounds sexy and will probably earn you bragging rights at the dinner table. But the practicality of the dual degree is benign.
 
I was wondering if as an MD interested in women's health and reproductive justice, would a JD help in that regard? Would I be able to practice medicine and also be able to take part in medical politics? Or do you think that a joint MD/JD degree would still be "pointless?"
 
I was wondering if as an MD interested in women's health and reproductive justice, would a JD help in that regard? Would I be able to practice medicine and also be able to take part in medical politics? Or do you think that a joint MD/JD degree would still be "pointless?"
Pointless.
Physicians who have distinguished themselves can do as much political work as they have stomach for (without wasting time on a JD).
 
I was wondering if as an MD interested in women's health and reproductive justice, would a JD help in that regard? Would I be able to practice medicine and also be able to take part in medical politics? Or do you think that a joint MD/JD degree would still be "pointless?"
I seriously considered this, but believe.t work as a clinician will make me enough of an expert. I plan to advocate for women's health in the community, hopefully serving in a political capacity, but the JD doesn't seem necessary. We have too many lawyers in politics already
 
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