Md /jd

[DelAGator]

Has anyone heard or an articulated MD/JD program?
I read about one at UNC-Chapel Hill, is there any other 6 year programs? 🙂

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[MNsocsci]

The Mayo Clinic has a six-year MD/JD program in conjunction with Arizona State University. The best part about it is that the two years of law school are free!

Edit: oops--ASU, not U of A

 

[DelAGator]

The Mayo Clinic has a six-year MD/JD program in conjunction with the University of Arizona Law School. The best part about it is that the two years of law school are free!

Do you have a link?

 

[DoctorPardi]

I heard Duke had a MD/JD program too. I want to know what MD/JDs usually do? Are they malpractive lawyers, or is it just so doctors can handle any cases they have against them?

It sounds cool, but I just don't know what you would do with it other than be a medical malpractice lawyer maybe?

 

[medhacker]

It sounds cool, but I just don't know what you would do with it other than be a medical malpractice lawyer maybe?

Tort reform
Work as a physician 3 days and 2 as an attorney

 

[Hari Kari]

Stuff like this is all on the AAMC website. It's a good idea to check out what's on there.

Here's a link that should give you all you need to know:
http://services.aamc.org/currdir/section3/degree2.cfm?data=yes&program=mdjd

Happy reading.

 

[medhacker]

There is one DO school also giving the DO/JD degree together with Rutgers U. that is UMDNJ-SOM 👍

 

[MNsocsci]

Do you have a link?

Hmmm... I looked on the Mayo website and didn't find any information on it. All I have is a brochure on the MD/JD they gave me when I interviewed at Mayo. If you have specific questions you can PM me. I think that it is a new program, so maybe that's why there isn't more info online.

 

[Hari Kari]

Here you go:

ASU's website
http://www.law.asu.edu/?id=9320

A June 2004 announcement of a potential collaboration between the two schools:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2004-sct/2286.html

 

[Centinel]

Yale also has (the sweetest ever) MD/JD.

 

[Law2Doc]

I want to know what MD/JDs usually do? Are they malpractive lawyers, or is it just so doctors can handle any cases they have against them?

It sounds cool, but I just don't know what you would do with it other than be a medical malpractice lawyer maybe?

There is no specific career path for JD/MDs-- there really aren't enough of them out there for there to be a specific defined path. In general, someone who seeks to combine these degrees will have an uphill battle proving to desired employers that there is a need for such a combination. The usual places one can combine the degrees are health policy and legislation, academics (especially good combo for health care ethics professors), and on the legal side, health law (not necessarilly malpractice, but those who do usually work for the defense), or hire yourself out as an expert witness. There are probably uses for the combined degree in the pharmaceutical or insurance industries, but as I suggested above, you would be trailblazing and the first of your kind at most employers. Because there is such an ill-defined career path, most people tend to use one degree or the other, and so unless you have a burning desire to do healthcare policy work, I wouldn't really recommend the combined degrees. It makes more sense for those who did a career as one and ultimately are deciding to switch to the other.

 

[gpumpkin67]

With all due respect to Law2Doc, I don't think that getting both degrees together is a bad idea, even if the career path is not clearly defined. More than anything else, I think that the combination of the two degrees creates tremendous possibilities in the settings Law2Doc identifies --- academia (for example, Ellen Clayton at Vanderbilt with dual appointments), government/policymaking (for example, David Kessler, former FDA Commissioner), or practicing either law (actually on either “side” – there are a number of MD/JD plaintiff’s malpractice attorneys too) or medicine. There are also a growing number of medical-legal collaborations (for example, the Family Advocacy Program at BU -- http://www.familyadvocacyprogram.org/ or the Pediatric Health Advocacy Clinic at UM) where legal services are provided in a medical setting in the hope of improving health outcomes for underserved populations. This is not to say that it is realistic to be able to keep up with developments in both fields enough to practice both (although apparently some extraordinary people do this...), but rather that MD/JDs can serve to foster these sorts of programs. This is why I’m seeking both degrees – to be able to practice medicine in an underserved community with skills to be an effective advocate for my patients. In addition, getting both degrees together can save a year of tuition/expenses (~$50,000).

In response to earlier comments, there are quite a few MD/JD programs now and most schools without a formal program will allow you to obtain both degrees even if no "formal" program exists (I know my school definitely permits this).

 

[jjmack]

Yale also has (the sweetest ever) MD/JD.

good luck getting into that though. Yale law is harder to get into than many med schools.

 

[rup47]

There is one DO school also giving the DO/JD degree together with Rutgers U. that is UMDNJ-SOM 👍

I think Robert Wood Johnson SOM does a similar program with Rutgers, I had a bioethics prof. who was finishing up his residency and taking the bar exam at the same time who had done medschool at RWJ and lawschool at Rutgers.

I dont know how he did his residency, studied for the BAR and tought bioethics all at the same time

 

[Law2Doc]

With all due respect to Law2Doc, I don't think that getting both degrees together is a bad idea, even if the career path is not clearly defined. More than anything else, I think that the combination of the two degrees creates tremendous possibilities in the settings Law2Doc identifies --- academia (for example, Ellen Clayton at Vanderbilt with dual appointments), government/policymaking (for example, David Kessler, former FDA Commissioner), or practicing either law (actually on either “side” – there are a number of MD/JD plaintiff’s malpractice attorneys too) or medicine. There are also a growing number of medical-legal collaborations (for example, the Family Advocacy Program at BU -- http://www.familyadvocacyprogram.org/ or the Pediatric Health Advocacy Clinic at UM) where legal services are provided in a medical setting in the hope of improving health outcomes for underserved populations. This is not to say that it is realistic to be able to keep up with developments in both fields enough to practice both (although apparently some extraordinary people do this...), but rather that MD/JDs can serve to foster these sorts of programs. This is why I’m seeking both degrees – to be able to practice medicine in an underserved community with skills to be an effective advocate for my patients. In addition, getting both degrees together can save a year of tuition/expenses (~$50,000).

In response to earlier comments, there are quite a few MD/JD programs now and most schools without a formal program will allow you to obtain both degrees even if no "formal" program exists (I know my school definitely permits this).

I'm not totally hostile to one having both degrees, but really trying to caution those who think it's a path to a specific job -- you will be having to pave your own way. It is a combination that can be made to be useful, but there are few out there who are actively seeking to hire this combo, mainly because there are so few. I would further clarify for the readers of this thread that ALL of the law side jobs referenced here and in my thread can be done by folks with JUST a JD. 99.9% of health lawyers, medmal lawyers etc. do so with just the JD. Probably the same with folks doing health policy and legislation. Having an MD might make it an easier sell to a potential employer, but you could do it without. And FWIW you will not generally get a much better salary at a law firm with the MD than with just a JD.
I know nothing about the above-described underserved community medical-legal initiatives, and I'm sure that it's great, but you can really help underserved people with problems with either degree alone too (there are plenty of free clinics and poverty law centers looking for labor), so it seems like a lot of extra years of study to give a slightly different benefit to the same population. So I renew my comment that JD/MD is a lot of years to spend for an ill-defined career path. So make sure you have a game plan to a career that needs this combo before you start. And this is from someone who will ultimately have both degrees the long way, with somewhat of a career in between. Good luck all.

 

[Centinel]

good luck getting into that though. Yale law is harder to get into than many med schools.

Yes, but Yale med has a 100% acceptance rate into Yale law...

 

[alpenglow]

@ my HMS interview, my interviewer noted my political/law leanings and mentioned that I could do an MD/JD @ Harvard if I wanted - no problem!

 

[DoctorFunk]

University of Minnesota also has a 6 year MD/JD program, for those who just can't get enough letters to add to the end of their name.

 

[Tiki]

I'm actually considering doing a MD/JD at RWJMS. I can apply to either Rutgers school of law, or UPenn. The downside is that this program is not funded, and I'm not sure I want the extra debt.

 

[IDforMe]

I believe Southern Illinois University also has a combined MD/JD program. Not Yale or Harvard certainly, but it is there (and might be a good option for those who are IL residents).

 

[beponychick]

I'm actually considering doing a MD/JD at RWJMS. I can apply to either Rutgers school of law, or UPenn. The downside is that this program is not funded, and I'm not sure I want the extra debt.

Are you sure UPenn is an option? I think there was a student who did his med training at RWJ and his law training at UPenn but Im pretty sure it took him 7 years, not 6. RWJ has the combined program with Seton Hall Law as well. Im still debating whether or not to do it. I currently have an acceptance to Rutgers Law and can potentially defer for two years, but I feel like Im getting old already. lol.

 

[stwinson]

Yes, but Yale med has a 100% acceptance rate into Yale law...

Do you know if that is the case for sure?
I am going to be a Yale MS1 next yr, and I might want to consider doing MD/JD....and getting a JD from yale for juz 2 yrs isn't too bad at all....

 

[plrae12]

University of Illinois at Chicago has an MD/JD program

 

[BMW M3]

U Illinois
U Minnesota
Rutgers Camden + UMDNJ-RWJ
Rutgers Newark + UMDNJ-Newark
Seton Hall + UMDNJ-Newark
Duke

and thats all i can think of off the top of my head

 

[abc(123)]

Do you know if that is the case for sure?
I am going to be a Yale MS1 next yr, and I might want to consider doing MD/JD....and getting a JD from yale for juz 2 yrs isn't too bad at all....

i'm pretty sure this is not actually the case (contacted a current md/jd candidate) -- the percentage is high, around 50%, but that's also probably because the few med students driven to even apply are fairly well qualified. i did learn that other students did decide to pursue degrees at other law schools, but i'm not sure if they were able to do this in 6, rather than the usual 7, years.

 

[Centinel]

Do you know if that is the case for sure?
I am going to be a Yale MS1 next yr, and I might want to consider doing MD/JD....and getting a JD from yale for juz 2 yrs isn't too bad at all....

Yes; or at least that is what Silverman assured me during my interview. I was incredulous, of course, and asked multiple times. Keep in mind that there are very few applicants. It's about one per year, but for the last five years they have all been accepted. Apparently the med school works closely with you during the process. At any rate, it's not guaranteed to remain 100%, but empirically speaking that's what it's been.

 

[IooI]

If im hearing this right, if you get accepted to a medical school that happens to have a legal school (ala Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc), if one is interested in pursuing a JD, the admissions standards are lower for the med student??? That sounds too good to be true, considering that I have been interested in pursuing an MD/JD but through a developed MD/JD program (like UChicago's or UPenn's), which requires that you apply to each school individually, get accepted to both, and then enter the program..that seems awfully laborious compared to just matriculating at a med school, and then applying to that schools JD program and almost being guaranteed of admission..

Can anyone clarify the process?

 

[eram]

University of Illinois at Chicago has an MD/JD program

Medical Scholars Program at Urbana-Champaign also has the MD/JD option

 

[LilyMD]

I heard Duke had a MD/JD program too. I want to know what MD/JDs usually do? Are they malpractive lawyers, or is it just so doctors can handle any cases they have against them?

It sounds cool, but I just don't know what you would do with it other than be a medical malpractice lawyer maybe?

You could be a malpractice lawyers without going to medical school. In fact, most malpractice lawyers don't go to medical school. There are a lot of things you can do with a JD/MD, but you probably could do the same thing with only one of the degrees. You could be a malpractice attorney or a health care law professor/specialist, but then again, you could do that with only a JD. An added MD is a bit of overkill. Also, you could just be a doctor who sits on the bioethics board, teaches bioethics, medicine & law type classes, or be an expert witness, but again you could do this with only the MD. The JD is really not necessary. I think the two degrees aren't really practical, you either have to be a practicing doctor, a practicing lawyer or some hybrid which is neither practicing lawyer or doctor.

 

[LilyMD]

I'm not totally hostile to one having both degrees, but really trying to caution those who think it's a path to a specific job -- you will be having to pave your own way. It is a combination that can be made to be useful, but there are few out there who are actively seeking to hire this combo, mainly because there are so few. I would further clarify for the readers of this thread that ALL of the law side jobs referenced here and in my thread can be done by folks with JUST a JD. 99.9% of health lawyers, medmal lawyers etc. do so with just the JD. Probably the same with folks doing health policy and legislation. Having an MD might make it an easier sell to a potential employer, but you could do it without. And FWIW you will not generally get a much better salary at a law firm with the MD than with just a JD.
I know nothing about the above-described underserved community medical-legal initiatives, and I'm sure that it's great, but you can really help underserved people with problems with either degree alone too (there are plenty of free clinics and poverty law centers looking for labor), so it seems like a lot of extra years of study to give a slightly different benefit to the same population. So I renew my comment that JD/MD is a lot of years to spend for an ill-defined career path. So make sure you have a game plan to a career that needs this combo before you start. And this is from someone who will ultimately have both degrees the long way, with somewhat of a career in between. Good luck all.

As an lawyer who wishes to changes careers to become a doctor, I couldn't agree with you more. It is overkill. All the above-mentioned careers can be done with either a JD or MD alone. If you want to specialize in a particular area, write and publish a few papers on it...and you will save yourself the extra tuition and years of your life.

 

[swifty100850]

You could go into patent law... you'll be over-educated though and underpaid, but I heard it's low stress.

 

[Law2Doc]

You could go into patent law... you'll be over-educated though and underpaid, but I heard it's low stress.

If this is your goal a JD/MS would be adequate and a JD/PhD will get you a lot further than the MD.

 

[06applicant]

Yes, but Yale med has a 100% acceptance rate into Yale law...

But how many people have tried? I bet only a handfull in the past 50 years.

 

[Law2Doc]

But how many people have tried? I bet only a handfull in the past 50 years.

If this were the case, I actually know plenty of law types who would have tried to do this and then quickly drop the medical part -- Yale law is kind of tops, you know. Different criteria but possibly harder to get into than the medical side. I find it vey hard to believe this is true.

 

[paki20]

i was actually interested in a MD/JD also but thought it wouldnt be practical..but quick question do you have to take the LSAT and the MCAT to apply to these programs? im sure it varies from college but whats the general rule??

 

[Centinel]

If im hearing this right, if you get accepted to a medical school that happens to have a legal school (ala Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc), if one is interested in pursuing a JD, the admissions standards are lower for the med student???

You're not hearing it right. The admissions standards are by no means lower; it's just that (1) the students who get into those med schools are already stellar in their own right and (2) the type of person who would want to do both, and who can articulate a good reason for wanting the dual degree, will be a person with extraordinary intellect and focus.

The standards are no lower. The admissions process is no easier. It's just a selection bias.

 

[stwinson]

Yes; or at least that is what Silverman assured me during my interview. I was incredulous, of course, and asked multiple times. Keep in mind that there are very few applicants. It's about one per year, but for the last five years they have all been accepted. Apparently the med school works closely with you during the process. At any rate, it's not guaranteed to remain 100%, but empirically speaking that's what it's been.

Yes, I recall Silverman saying something similiar during my interview too. He said Yale Med students pretty much haven't had any trouble getting into any schools within Yale in his experience, but i was asking about the business school in particular. Of course there is no ganrantee, but a perfect five year record is pretty impressive nonetheless. But I am sure that one would need stellar LSAT (i.e. 170+) to be competitive even coming from yale med, since YLS really have some incredible incoming stats (i.e. 1/4 of the class have perfect GPA).

 

[NCF145]

Baylor College of Medicine and University of Houston have a MD/JD program too.