MD keeps trying to persuade me againt DO Help!!

[Ausmil]

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There is a physician that I work with that I have known for a long time. He has treated me very well, and written me excellent letters. When I told him I applied primarily to DO medical schools he was disapointed in me. Her started lecturing me on how every DO he knows they always wish they were MD's. He also told me that I will be limited all my life. I know these things are not true, they just hurt to hear from someone I respect. Any advise as to what I could tell him? Also, when everyone asks me, is there a good way to explain the DO world without sounding Naturpathic or different? He also told me that osteopathic stuff is weird. I know he is ignorant to the philosophy, but help!!

 

[doc G]

There is a physician that I work with that I have known for a long time. He has treated me very well, and written me excellent letters. When I told him I applied primarily to DO medical schools he was disapointed in me. Her started lecturing me on how every DO he knows they always wish they were MD's. He also told me that I will be limited all my life. I know these things are not true, they just hurt to hear from someone I respect. Any advise as to what I could tell him? Also, when everyone asks me, is there a good way to explain the DO world without sounding Naturpathic or different? He also told me that osteopathic stuff is weird. I know he is ignorant to the philosophy, but help!!

Sounds like he is ignorant to the philosophy....Most likely he is a doctor from the old school, I have had some of the same instances.

This is what I do when I really care what they think;

Take two pieces of paper out. Outline how a doctor should treat his patients and give examples of him showing compassion.....at the bottom write D.O. On the the other write down what every doctor whould not do...down rate his patients ( mean)...etc... at the bottom write MD.
Ask him to pick which one he would rather treat him if were sick???......And when he sees that he has chosen the D.O.....maybe ( but most likely not) he will realize the falllacy in his bias toward the M.D. letters......The letters after your name will not reflect what type of doctor you will become...only you can determine that. Whether your an M.D or D.O.......you will determine your fate as a physician.....and you would think someone with that much experience would realize this 🙁

 

[DrBowtie]

Sounds like he is ignorant to the philosophy....Most likely he is a doctor from the old school, I have had some of the same instances.

This is what I do when I really care what they think;

Take two pieces of paper out. Outline how a doctor should treat his patients and give examples of him showing compassion.....at the bottom write D.O. On the the other write down what every doctor whould not do...down rate his patients ( mean)...etc... at the bottom write MD.
Ask him to pick which one he would rather treat him if were sick???......And when he sees that he has chosen the D.O.....maybe ( but most likely not) he will realize the falllacy in his bias toward the M.D. letters......The letters after your name will not reflect what type of doctor you will become...only you can determine that. Whether your an M.D or D.O.......you will determine your fate as a physician.....and you would think someone with that much experience would realize this 🙁

B/C All DO's are nice and All MD's are awful. 🙄

 

[Vox Animo]

Ignore the comments, he isn't going to change his position. Get comfortable witht he fact that many people will think DOs to be inferior regardless of what you do. Just don't let some one else's behavior ruin your day.

As for how to address as a DO to lay people. Say all the qualificanions of doctor, but additionally trained in omm which is similiar to physical therapy

 

[Creightonite]

i think this holds a lot of truth. I will have to go DO if I cant get into an MD program.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

There is a physician that I work with that I have known for a long time. He has treated me very well, and written me excellent letters. When I told him I applied primarily to DO medical schools he was disapointed in me. Her started lecturing me on how every DO he knows they always wish they were MD's. He also told me that I will be limited all my life. I know these things are not true, they just hurt to hear from someone I respect. Any advise as to what I could tell him?

I would just say you appreciate his input on this decision and you'll definitely consider it when you go to make your decision as to what school you attend.

Also, when everyone asks me, is there a good way to explain the DO world without sounding Naturpathic or different? He also told me that osteopathic stuff is weird. I know he is ignorant to the philosophy, but help!!

What was posted before is a good idea. DO is everything MD does plus education in an additional treatment modality that helps for things like pain management. I would avoid some of the AOA buzzwords -- for instance, I avoid the world "holistic" since most people think it either means 'religious' or 'new age'.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

B/C All DO's are nice and All MD's are awful. 🙄

Of course. In fact, the Principles of Clinical Medicine class at my allopathic school is all about being mean to your patients. 🙄

To the op, you've going to face this occasionally, and you know, people you generally respect aren't right about everything. 🙂 Don't argue it because it's not going to be productive, but do what feels right for you.

 

[pappy846]

I just say "well, you know how in dentistry you can either get a DDS or a DMD? Well it's kind of like that in medicine...you can get an MD or a DO and practice the full scope of medicine. The difference between MDs and DOs is that DOs have additional training in the musculoskeletal system which allows them to provide other treatments for pain."

....then I back-hand the bitch. 😎

 

[MedGrl@2022]

There is a physician that I work with that I have known for a long time. He has treated me very well, and written me excellent letters. When I told him I applied primarily to DO medical schools he was disapointed in me. Her started lecturing me on how every DO he knows they always wish they were MD's. He also told me that I will be limited all my life. I know these things are not true, they just hurt to hear from someone I respect. Any advise as to what I could tell him? Also, when everyone asks me, is there a good way to explain the DO world without sounding Naturpathic or different? He also told me that osteopathic stuff is weird. I know he is ignorant to the philosophy, but help!!

MDs are brainwashed!!!! When I went to a summer program/internship at Yale University School of Medicine they brainwashed me and I thought D.O. school was just a bad option and that they were not as good physicians as M.D.'s but now I know it is not true and I want to be a D.O. more than an M.D.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

MDs are brainwashed!!!! When I went to a summer program/internship at Yale University School of Medicine they brainwashed me and I thought D.O. school was just a bad option and that they were not as good physicians as M.D.'s but now I know it is not true and I want to be a D.O. more than an M.D.

I can't wait to go to D.O. school... UNECOM is my first choice... Osteopathic Schools all the way!!!!! 🙂

 

[doc G]

B/C All DO's are nice and All MD's are awful. 🙄

You could not have scored very high on verbal reasoning brett .....that was not the point of the whole post. The point I was trying to make was that the lettters after your name is not important...I am not for or against either M.D. or D.O. .....I want to practice medicine.....as an M.D. or D.O......period. The letters are not important.....how you treat patients is important.

 

[pappy846]

you know...I have nothing against M.D.'s. I've met my share of great MDs and great DOs...as well as ****ty DOs and ****ty MDs.

I am beginning to think that these pre-med DO's who are against MDs are eating their own words...you know, ultimately the quality of the physician is determined by the individual.

The only thing I have against allopathic schools is their basis of admissions into medical school--most offering interviews based on numbers (i know some DO schools do this too). I have noticed that DO schools recognize that desire to become a physician sometimes overpowers numbers.

 

[DrBowtie]

You could not have scored very high on verbal reasoning brett .....that was not the point of the whole post. The point I was trying to make was that the lettters after your name is not important...I am not for or against either M.D. or D.O. .....I want to practice medicine.....as an M.D. or D.O......period. The letters are not important.....how you treat patients is important.

The point was just poor overall. I find dropkicks much more effective 😀

 

[doc G]

The point was just poor overall. I find dropkicks much more effective 😀

Or that could work too....... 👍

 

[It'sElectric]

MDs are brainwashed!!!! When I went to a summer program/internship at Yale University School of Medicine they brainwashed me and I thought D.O. school was just a bad option and that they were not as good physicians as M.D.'s but now I know it is not true and I want to be a D.O. more than an M.D.

It's this sort of rhetoric from both sides of the fence that just continue to fuel the fires. It shouldn't be about MD vs. DO. We're physicians working towards a common goal....relieving the pain and suffering of others with the very best tools, knowledge, and abilities that we personally hold. I firmly believe in this, and I hope that everyone at least sees a hint of truth in this.

That being said, I thought I'd include a little article (I couldn't find the original AAMC newsletter...i'm sure someone else can).
AAMC recommends musculoskeletal medicine

I think it's fantastic, I just wish they'd give at least a little credit to osteopathic schools for being just a little ahead of the curve on this issue 😛

 

[Vox Animo]

I just say "well, you know how in dentistry you can either get a DDS or a DMD? Well it's kind of like that in medicine...you can get an MD or a DO and practice the full scope of medicine. The difference between MDs and DOs is that DOs have additional training in the musculoskeletal system which allows them to provide other treatments for pain."

....then I back-hand the bitch. 😎

always and excellent rebuttle, if you soudn very sincere they won't expect it.

And don't forget to run away with your hands in the air.

 

[Orthodoc40]

This didn't really strike me as a DO vs MD issue so much.
I have the same dilemma as the OP. Being good friends with 4 MD's, I've spent a lot of time talking with them about my applications and options and 3 of them are so against the DO idea that it does shake my security in it. Whenever I mention it they get kind of quiet, and lower their voices like it is a very dangerous topic! These aren't "old school" MD's, either - they are in their late 30's, and one is in her 20's. They are certain that even though I don't believe it now, later I will regret having "DO" after my name, and I'm better off going to an off-shore school given the choice! And yah, I would personally choose DO over off-shore, but it does shake my confidence to hear their input.

To the OP, I would just nicely ask for specifics if it comes up. You know, like, "So, in what ways do you think I will be limited?" and such. It makes him/her have to think about what they mean by what they are saying. If there is anything to it, it will be more constructive to you that way, too.

 

[Playmakur42]

I couldn't care less about the letters after my name, so here comes a question:

Assuming a student would get the same grades in either Osteopathic or Allopathic medical school..........which avenue makes it easier to get a General Surgery Residency (D.O. or M.D. spot)?

(I like D.O. because you get to put OMM in your bag of tricks, however, I heard it may be more diffiicult to get a surgery spot. Any truth to that?)

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I couldn't care less about the letters after my name, so here comes a question:

Assuming a student would get the same grades in either Osteopathic or Allopathic medical school..........which avenue makes it easier to get a General Surgery Residency (D.O. or M.D. spot)?

(I like D.O. because you get to put OMM in your bag of tricks, however, I heard it may be more diffiicult to get a surgery spot. Any truth to that?)

From what I understand, the M.D. is better if you want surgery. You might want to do a search in the surgery forum for more information.

 

[mshheaddoc]

To note: DO's even have their own residency spots. If you are a strong student and do well on COMLEX/USMLE you will have no problem finding a spot. Yes some programs do not accept DO's and discriminate but that is NOT the majority.

 

[Playmakur42]

Thank you to both for responding......... the differing opinions are a good reflection of what I've been reading on my searches.

One person says you should go MD to give yourself the best shot, and another says do well at D.O. and you'll be fine.

Based on what I've read, you can go to either type of school, and if your grades/test scores are good, then you should be okay..... which makes me like D.O. more because you still get to learn OMM. 😎

 

[Playmakur42]

duplicate...sorry

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Thank you to both for responding......... the differing opinions are a good reflection of what I've been reading on my searches.

One person says you should go MD to give yourself the best shot, and another says do well at D.O. and you'll be fine.

Based on what I've read, you can go to either type of school, and if your grades/test scores are good, then you should be okay..... which makes me like D.O. more because you still get to learn OMM. 😎

Maybe, but I'd really suggest searching the surgery thread. The posters there are people who've just been through the match, and they'll have the best perspective on your chances.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

I have noticed that DO schools recognize that desire to become a physician sometimes overpowers numbers.

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

 

[Rachael07]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

is this suppose to be an insult?

 

[medmom]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

AllI have to say it WOW!!! Apparently you are going DO then? Because dumb has no O in it 😱

 

[xTinaBna]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

DO is first two letters in DOCTOR 😎

 

[mshheaddoc]

Ignorance is bliss. Just a reminder that not everyone feels DO's are real doctors no matter what the educated and informed may believe 😉

 

[erleichda]

There is a physician that I work with that I have known for a long time. He has treated me very well, and written me excellent letters. When I told him I applied primarily to DO medical schools he was disapointed in me. Her started lecturing me on how every DO he knows they always wish they were MD's. He also told me that I will be limited all my life. I know these things are not true, they just hurt to hear from someone I respect. Any advise as to what I could tell him? Also, when everyone asks me, is there a good way to explain the DO world without sounding Naturpathic or different? He also told me that osteopathic stuff is weird. I know he is ignorant to the philosophy, but help!!

I just want to reply to the OP. The same thing happened to me. When I was writing my AMCAS and AACOMAS personal statements I asked an MD/PhD at my work for advice. We got into a conversation where I told him that I would prefer to go to an osteopathic school over allopathic. He tried to convice me not to go the DO route. He mentioned that there was an exceptional DO in his department, but generally there is a stigma associated with DOs. I made the mistake of trying to convince him it was a good choice for me, but really, how could I, a pre-med, expect to convince him of anything? He had an argument to refute all of my points, and I do not feel that I am knowledgable enough to argue with him at this time. Next time I ran into him I just thanked him for his help and told him that I chose to apply to both anyway.

So, when we become successful DOs, OP, let's come back to thank these MDs for helping us with the med school process. Then they can see for themselves. 😀

 

[doc G]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

What?????Is that even a word....sounds french...damn arrogant frenchman

 

[HoodyHoo]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

with those words you sound like the "domb" one.

 

[Kuba]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

so numbers=intelligence?

 

[DocFox]

I have been lucky in this respect. All of the MDs I work with have said positive things about DO schools, in fact one MD was telling us he personally likes OMM for using on migraines-but his wife is a DO so there is some bias there. There will probably always be some stigma attached to DOs because it's a different degree, in the end all that matters is if you really care or not.

It's the same kind of thing as what undergrad school you went to, lots of people advised me against CSU (state schools) when I was already accepted into a UC school but I liked my CSU better. I think I made the right decision going to a CSU.

Like my dad has always told me: opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.😀

 

[Taus]

I prefer.....and most of them are full of $hit...or...and no one thinks theres stinks as bad as the next persons...

 

[vt hokie]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

this may be a dumb question, but what does "domb" mean?

 

[cyclohexanol]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

domb is a word? when the hell did this happen?!!?

What is your point? Let's bust out the dictionaries, I challenge you to a duel!

Similarly, M and D are contained [consecutively] in and are sometimes the exact middle letters of the words rumdum, humdinger, circumduction, sursumduction and femdom.

Time to go back to my left handed practice in Alaska...

 

[Orthodoc40]

I prefer.....and most of them are full of $hit...or...and no one thinks theres stinks as bad as the next persons...

It's a great quote, but he got it from Clint Eastwood!

 

[docmd2010]

All MD's I have ever worked with have only had great things to say about DO's, and all DO's I've worked with have had said nice things about MD's. to the op, listen-if you wanna be a doc-then both routes will get you there. You'll learn the same f*cking **** at both types. I'm a do school and one of my friends is at an md school, and we always seem to cover the same things. Trust me buddy, you walk into a patient room in your white coat with a patient looking to you out of desperation for your help, he/she will not even bother if you are an MD (or a DO for that matter). All they want is a physician who will attempt to treat them and one that can show empathy.

On a side note, all you people that are mentioning "that D.O.'s are 'nicer' and 'take better care' than MD's"; get off this f*cking forum-you don't know wtf you're talkin about-you're clearly insecure about being a DO so you justify your insecurities by the belittlement of MD's. Exemplary personality traits in a physician are most likely individual traits and cannot be generalized to a profession/degree. 🙄

 

[Wackie]

He is partially right. As a DO, you're kind of a trail blazer since DO's are not as widely known as MD's. So, you're constantly defending yourself.
If you don't mind that, then fine.
So, I think you should take what he's saying and keep it in your pocket as something that you might run into in the future.

Most doctors I've talked to, regardless of whether you're a DO or MD, are more concerned about whether or not you're a good doctor period than what the two letters are after your name.

 

[DrMom]

I couldn't care less about the letters after my name, so here comes a question:

Assuming a student would get the same grades in either Osteopathic or Allopathic medical school..........which avenue makes it easier to get a General Surgery Residency (D.O. or M.D. spot)?

(I like D.O. because you get to put OMM in your bag of tricks, however, I heard it may be more diffiicult to get a surgery spot. Any truth to that?)

There are osteopathic surgery residencies (incl gen'l surg, ortho, ENT, ophtho, etc) that only DOs can apply to. If you want to specifically do an MD surgery residency you need to know that those are quite tough for DOs to get into.

 

[doc G]

All MD's I have ever worked with have only had great things to say about DO's, and all DO's I've worked with have had said nice things about MD's. to the op, listen-if you wanna be a doc-then both routes will get you there. You'll learn the same f*cking **** at both types. I'm a do school and one of my friends is at an md school, and we always seem to cover the same things. Trust me buddy, you walk into a patient room in your white coat with a patient looking to you out of desperation for your help, he/she will not even bother if you are an MD (or a DO for that matter). All they want is a physician who will attempt to treat them and one that can show empathy.

On a side note, all you people that are mentioning "that D.O.'s are 'nicer' and 'take better care' than MD's"; get off this f*cking forum-you don't know wtf you're talkin about-you're clearly insecure about being a DO so you justify your insecurities by the belittlement of MD's. Exemplary personality traits in a physician are most likely individual traits and cannot be generalized to a profession/degree. 🙄

That was harsh....Sorry for the example. I was trying to convey that same message...Its how you treat people not the letters after your name. I should have had it go both ways to show that you will meet both good and bad MD's and DO's......I did not mean to infer that one was better than the other sorry for the confusion....Bad example I guess

 

[doc G]

You know I have thought this one through long and hard......Why is it that when you see an MD that looks down at the DO profession they are generally from the "old school"...or older doctors. Two conclusion I have made from this is that they are uneducated in the DO profession.....which seems highly unlikely ( i mean they are DOCTORS they should be up-to-date on most things that happen in the medical community right?????) Or.....maybe they are insecure that their field is so superior and the DO is pushing into a community that holds some sort of exclusivity( spelled right??) ......this is the one I am going with. JUST OPINIONS HERE....please no flaming just thoughts.

Either way.....BOTH practice medicine....." AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE CAUSE docG said so" ( while we are throwing quotes around)

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

The general public doesn't have any need to look into it any deeper. A medical school does. If you think a 3.9 is always smarter than a 3.2, you need to spend some more time expanding the small corners of your universe and consider other possible explanations for the 3.2 other than a "lack of intelligence".

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification?

Because what you are suggesting is ridiculous and unnecessary.

 

[xTinaBna]

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification?

i agree with OculusSinistra..it's like having a B.A. or B.S. a B.S. has 60 credit hours of science courses...it's pointless for a B.A. to go back after they have graduated to do extra courses so they have another qualificiation.

 

[dr.kicia]

Sometimes is the key word. There are few exceptional people in the world who have overcome their lack of intelligence with "desire" for intelligence. As for the general public, numbers say more.

If a DO degree is really "exactly like an MD but with an extra subject". Why don't they go to med school and then take a little community college course to change their qualification? Oh yeah, 'cause DO is the first two letters in the word domb.

wow...i hope that adcoms of schools you are going to read this...this was so ignorant.🙄

to the OP...whenever i hear from someone that going to DO school is stupid and that i am not going to be a real Doctor, I ask them if they know any DO's or have been treated by one. Then i also ask what do they now about DO's....most of the time they have no clue and feel stupid that they cannot explain why, other then having different letters after my name, MD is better then DO.You would be surprised how many MD have no clue about DO practice. Maybe that is why they define is as "wierd". Remeber that most of the time ppl are ignorant of things they do not understand.

Then when they already feel insecure i say that DO acctually have to go over learning everything that MD's do plus some extra stuff and that is absolutely fascinating to me. Since i really want to do something with passion, being fascinated by DO philosophy plus the abbility to offer my patients more options is hands down going to make it easier for me to become a great doctor. You need to like what you do after all.

And then i would ask if this Doc went to school to be a doc and help ppl or to have an MD after his name. And ask him what really matters the most in medicine...no matter what his answer would be i know that what matters to me, or rather who matters is a patient and doing everything in my power to help him/her. And knowing everything that MD does plus this "extra" stuff is definetly going to make "doing everything in my power" easier. This is why i will only apply to DO schools.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

That was harsh....Sorry for the example. I was trying to convey that same message...Its how you treat people not the letters after your name. I should have had it go both ways to show that you will meet both good and bad MD's and DO's......I did not mean to infer that one was better than the other sorry for the confusion....Bad example I guess

But your initial post was so amazingly insulting that I think you deserve it. You've been trying to backtrack, but you did essentially state that DOs are nice and MDs are mean. One, that opinion is juvenile, and two, it's wrong. Hopefully, you grow up a bit before you actually work with MDs -- and yes, you're going to work with MDs unless you have an incredibly isolated practice.

 

[doc G]

But your initial post was so amazingly insulting that I think you deserve it. You've been trying to backtrack, but you did essentially state that DOs are nice and MDs are mean. One, that opinion is juvenile, and two, it's wrong. Hopefully, you grow up a bit before you actually work with MDs -- and yes, you're going to work with MDs unless you have an incredibly isolated practice.

You know I sometimes wonder how many of you people have actually worked in the medical field?? I have worked with DO and MD's for about 8 years....and about being juvenile....you cant make that type of judgement about me over an internet...IT WAS A CRUDE EXAMPLE....I agree with that but as far as the insults I did not mean it that way.

ps..Read the last sentence of the post....It sums up the idea DO = MD = medical practice

 

[Nate]

Wow, another MD vs DO thread degenerating. Whoda thunk
closed, went fishing