md/mba is it worth the extra 40 K?

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ronaldo23

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and do you have to apply from college directly to a MD/MBA 5 year program? someone told me that once you get accepted to med school you can usually opt to get an MBA by spending an extra year and that you dont really have to decide before getting to med school

and what would the mba help for? managing a private practice, not having to deal with administrative bs? is it really worth an additional 40K of debt?
 
YES! At least I think so. Most docs hire staff/consultants to run their practice because they don't know anything about running a small business. Having a practice is essentially that and if you don't handle the business side of medicine properly you will drown, especially nowadays. I think it could only help you in the long run, but how do you plan on doing it? Getting your MD and then MBA, vice versa?
 
Most medical schools I looked at have you apply to the MBA program in the 3rd year of medical school and then the last two years are split between medical courses and MBA courses ( how they split or if they even split varies from school to school). Every school I found tho has had their students apply during their 3rd year.

Anyone know what kind of things they're looking for in applicants for the MBA program? I'm thinking about doing a business minor to kind of get a background in business..would this help any? or do they expect you to have like management-related jobs during medical school? (I know a lot of medical students sometimes manage certain parts of free clinics)

holla
 
I don't think you need to do this if your goal is strictly clinical medicine. The guy I know who did it works for a major healthcare consulting company. He doesn't see any patients -- he just manages a corps of physician-speakers who go to hospitals and talk about healthcare-related issues to Chiefs of Medicine/Surgery and whatnot.

I completely agree that you should get some business knowledge, but I don't think going all the way to MBA is worth it. There are some spectacular books written on the subject of running a profitable small business; just avoid the one's that seem like get-rich-quick rags. Even more important is a basic understanding of microeconomics -- these books are even more plentiful. NPR's 'The Motley Fool' publishes a few which are wonderfully easy to read.

Bottom line: Do the research yourself in your (scant) free time and you'll be fine. Save the money you'd spend on an MBA and invest it in a Roth IRA; you'll thank me when you retire to your beach house in a few decades.
 
YES! At least I think so. Most docs hire staff/consultants to run their practice because they don't know anything about running a small business. Having a practice is essentially that and if you don't handle the business side of medicine properly you will drown, especially nowadays. I think it could only help you in the long run, but how do you plan on doing it? Getting your MD and then MBA, vice versa?

Actually this isn't correct. An MBA doesn't teach you how to run a small business. It tends to be an add on degree you get once you have work experience, not the place where you learn the basics. The joint programs are generally done for folks who don't intend to practice medicine, but rather to go into hospital administration or something similar. It would provide very little use if you planned to be a clinician. For this you are better off reading a few books on how to run a small business, and hiring the appropriate ancillary professionals (accountants, lawyers).
 
Anyone know what kind of things they're looking for in applicants for the MBA program?

I was under the impression that MD/MBA is like MD/MPH, where you really just need to apply, rather than MD/PhD or MD/JD where it's another competitive application process. I suppose that would depend on the quality of the attached business school, though.
 
I understand the goal of someone with an MD/MBA might be to go into some larger aspect of corporate healthcare, however I do think that it is a valuable asset to have. If you are able to run your practice that much smoother because of your knowlege about business then it will serve you well. The 40K you spend on it could be made back in one year of practice because you were business savy.

I work for a group that was thriving about 6 years ago. From 2002-2007 they were seeing a large volume of patients on a weekly basis and making a good bottom line. When the co-founders split, the patients obviously parted along the lines of their practitioner. Since then, business has not been as good and the practice is barley keeping its collective head above water. My job is to go after insurance companies for unpaid medical bills. These bills amount to over 6 million in outstanding receivables and it's all because they didn't run a tight ship, until now. If they were more business savy they could have balanced their practice with staff to stay on top of this stuff. Now we're paying the price because the statute of limitations has run out on much of these bills when we need the money the most.
 
I was under the impression that MD/MBA is like MD/MPH, where you really just need to apply, rather than MD/PhD or MD/JD where it's another competitive application process. I suppose that would depend on the quality of the attached business school, though.

Exactly. At school's with more famous business schools you have to take the GMAT and getting into the jount MD/MBA program is probably not that easy. At school's with lesser known business schools, getting in is easier. At some like UC Irvine, I was told that pretty much any medstudent who wants to get in can get in...but there are only so many spots each year so I guess they might sometimes have to pick between people on the basis of some criteria if demand for the MBA is oversubscribed.
 
Let me offer some thoughts from the perspective of someone who choose to drop out of 1 MBA program and later was faculty in another MBA program.
MBA programs vary greatly from school to school.
MBA programs tend to be major profit centers for schools.
With few exceptions, the coursework of MBA programs is focused on the world of publically held and multinational corporations; something totally irrelevant to a physician practice. Even those programs focused on small and emerging business tend to be focused on aspects not found in a medical practice; at least until the laws change and the corporate practice of medicine becomes legal.
One of the main goals/deliverables for any MBA program is to prepare you for and get you into your first post-graduation job. A few schools have very well respected healthcare related MBA tracks; like Penn/Wharton. Many schools offer "healthcare related" MBA programs and most of them are very lame. What do you think your first post med school job will be? What do you think your first post residency job will be?
Much of the benefit is the networking. From the right places, this networking is lifelong, well organized, extremely beneficial, etc.
Most MBA students are, or perceive themselves to be, or want to be, Wiz-kids. Much of the education isn't of much practical application, its too superficial.
Many of the post-graduation MBA jobs are glorified salesman jobs.
Much of what you learn in an MBA program is vocabulary, structure, culture, socialization, and etc. I was a business major undergrad and got a really strong foundation; the MBA courses were no where near as substantitive, and I was able to test out of several. Most of the courses aren't very difficult, although some programs can be hugely time consuming. An MBA is an essential qualification for no job that I know of, and any job that would likely be filled with an MBA would also likely be filled with a non-MBA.
In some ways, a MBA is like a post-bac special masters program for pre-med students. Its a stepping stone for some that don't have enough strength to get themselves there without it.
I absolutely would not consider doing a MBA program during med school.
If, post residency, you want a broadening experience, look into "executive" MBA programs. These tend to be much less time consuming programs with a much higher peer group level, a more practical orientation, and people who aren't focused on getting a real job because they already have one; probably someplace where you would be much more at home.
 
Actually this isn't correct. An MBA doesn't teach you how to run a small business. It tends to be an add on degree you get once you have work experience, not the place where you learn the basics. The joint programs are generally done for folks who don't intend to practice medicine, but rather to go into hospital administration or something similar. It would provide very little use if you planned to be a clinician. For this you are better off reading a few books on how to run a small business, and hiring the appropriate ancillary professionals (accountants, lawyers).

Bingo ... everyone I have spoken to about this (because I have looked into the programs myself) says that taking a few basic business classes and maybe reading some books will help you set up a better business model.
 
and do you have to apply from college directly to a MD/MBA 5 year program? someone told me that once you get accepted to med school you can usually opt to get an MBA by spending an extra year and that you dont really have to decide before getting to med school

and what would the mba help for? managing a private practice, not having to deal with administrative bs? is it really worth an additional 40K of debt?
yeah, I am actually considering that too. With all the evil insurance companies and government bureacrats taking advantage of doctors, I really want to have a good grip of my medical practice and my financial situation, but I am not sure if it's worth the $ and an extra year?
 
YES! At least I think so. Most docs hire staff/consultants to run their practice because they don't know anything about running a small business. Having a practice is essentially that and if you don't handle the business side of medicine properly you will drown, especially nowadays. I think it could only help you in the long run, but how do you plan on doing it? Getting your MD and then MBA, vice versa?
At my school it's a pretty sweet deal, you can do your MBA between 3d and 4th years. It's only a year, and no work experience required, no GMAT required, if you do well in med school and really want it, I think you are pretty much guaranteed to get in
 
For those that didn't read the entire thread, MD/MBA != running a better private practice.
 
40K? Probably not worth it. If 10K is probably yes. You see, an MBA does not make you a good business person, but experience and/or inert talent does. My dad is not an MBA dude and he's a successful entrepreneur. I took some MBA courses in grad school as an elective (I was in engineering) and they were freakin' easy. The only course I find valuable until today is Business Law (LAW 6000, I think)... I guess, in law school, this would be Contracts... I personally think that everyone should know this. It's very useful to know your way around when you set up a company (I have built 3 so far) before you work with your lawyer... especially to cut some initial costs. At least, your lawyer wont dare to screw you.
 
and do you have to apply from college directly to a MD/MBA 5 year program? someone told me that once you get accepted to med school you can usually opt to get an MBA by spending an extra year and that you dont really have to decide before getting to med school

and what would the mba help for? managing a private practice, not having to deal with administrative bs? is it really worth an additional 40K of debt?
I't actually a lot more tan 40K. I think what many people don't realize is that every year you put off finishing med school and residency and getting the "real job" as an attending, you are losing a year's worth of income of an attending physician. Let's say you are going into emergency medicine, and you spend an extra year to get an MBA for 40K. You have to also add the $ you'll be making as an EM attending - ~200K, so really you are sacrificing ~240 K, almost a quarter of a mil
 
I't actually a lot more tan 40K. I think what many people don't realize is that every year you put off finishing med school and residency and getting the "real job" as an attending, you are losing a year's worth of income of an attending physician. Let's say you are going into emergency medicine, and you spend an extra year to get an MBA for 40K. You have to also add the $ you'll be making as an EM attending - ~200K, so really you are sacrificing ~240 K, almost a quarter of a mil

And then what people ALSO don't realize is that you aren't borrowing money for free. Interest builds on most loans after you're done with medical school. $40K borrow is MUCH more than $40K paid back. In fact, it's probably double that.

I'd only get an MBA if you KNOW you want to be in some type of administrative position, otherwise, a) get a business degree in undergrad or b) take business courses as electives during undergrad.
 
I't actually a lot more tan 40K. I think what many people don't realize is that every year you put off finishing med school and residency and getting the "real job" as an attending, you are losing a year's worth of income of an attending physician. Let's say you are going into emergency medicine, and you spend an extra year to get an MBA for 40K. You have to also add the $ you'll be making as an EM attending - ~200K, so really you are sacrificing ~240 K, almost a quarter of a mil

Keep in mind that there are schools that have 4 year programs - like Tufts. In these programs many of the business classes are taken in the summers which allows you to graduate along with the rest of your class. In my opinion 40K (total) is a small price to pay to give you a business perspective of medicine early in your career. I was an economics major in college and found myself applying theory to everyday observations which helped me understand and predict, better, the world around me. I think a more advanced education would help a future healthcare professional notice inefficiencies and opportunities for improvement in perhaps the single most mismanaged field in our country. Healthcare is a business and, in general, physicians are admittedly terrible businessmen.

Things to keep in mind about combined degree programs: If its a 4 year program there is no opportunity cost of getting the second degree (you don't have to take off 2 years from a future career for school). Secondly, the MBA from a combined degree is on average a 1/3 the price or cheaper than a stand alone MBA. To me, I think this small amount (in the scheme of things) is a fair price to pay for an uncommon and desperately needed business perspective and (perhaps most importantly) a great network of well connected individuals.

Everyone seems to have a different opinion on this topic - this is just mine.
 
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