MD --> MD/PhD, advice

[enolization]

Hi everyone,
I am a student in the current application cycle and wanted your opinions and advice in assessing different career options. I have not yet submitted my primary application and I am debating whether to apply for MD or for MD/PhD programs. I guess this depends on what my career goals are: I want to obtain a medical education and practice medicine, but in addition I want to be involved in research and development in a non-trivial capacity.

An ideal would be to do both, but I am not sure which one I prefer. I think my areas of research interests are more in development of technology (medical devices, tissue engineering) than basic science/disease mechanisms (systems biology/informatics). I think that a PhD is not required to make a great scientist as anyone with hardwork, dedication, and a logical mind can do wonders.

The two options that I see are:
1. Go straight MD and pursue R&D either as a medical student or after medical school in residency/fellowship, including possibly taking time off. I am leaning towards this option.
2. Go into MD/PhD, and decide afterwards the balance of medicine/research that I want.

Some more pieces of information that are crucial. I am a non-traditional applicant. After my undergraduate, I obtained a Masters in biomedical engineering, which had an extensive independent research requirement. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on research, with 4 first-author publications, 3 more (1st-3rd) authored papers pending. As a result of all this, I am also fairly old (25 yrs old) and am worried that I will be getting greyed (26+8=34) by the time I settle into a profession (which is another reason why I don't mind not doing the PhD). A PhD will help, but I'm not sure if it is worth the time.

What would you guys do in this situation? Can a research masters with publications can compensate for a Phd in terms of NIH funding and future success potential? Also, from a monetary standpoint, if I go straight MD and decide in the program that I want the PhD as well, would the transfer allow me to gain the full funding as an MD/PhD (or MSTP) student?

Thanks for you help.

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[Neuronix]

HI think that a PhD is not required to make a great scientist as anyone with hardwork, dedication, and a logical mind can do wonders.

I agree. You already have research experience with a ton of publications. I don't see the point of persuing a PhD in your case since you will be obtaining an MD.

Can a research masters with publications can compensate for a Phd in terms of NIH funding and future success potential?

Yes. What's going to be far more important is the research you do as a resident and fellow. With that master's you'll be in good shape to optionally take a year off in med school for research and then to do a research track residency and fellowship if you choose.

Also, from a monetary standpoint, if I go straight MD and decide in the program that I want the PhD as well, would the transfer allow me to gain the full funding as an MD/PhD (or MSTP) student?

This is program specific/dependent. The biggest benefit of the MSTP is going to be the money, though the years spent lost in that PhD means you lose money in the long run. It is also likely if you do switch into MD/PhD that the program you switch to will make you pay for a year or even two of medical school. In your case loan repayment programs for medical research would be an excellent idea.

 

[RxnMan]

...Some more pieces of information that are crucial. I am a non-traditional applicant. After my undergraduate, I obtained a Masters in biomedical engineering, which had an extensive independent research requirement. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on research, with 4 first-author publications, 3 more (1st-3rd) authored papers pending. As a result of all this, I am also fairly old (25 yrs old) and am worried that I will be getting greyed (26+8=34) by the time I settle into a profession (which is another reason why I don't mind not doing the PhD). A PhD will help, but I'm not sure if it is worth the time...

I can give you my opinion, as someone who was in the same position (similar training, age, pubs, experience, and career goals).

I felt that the PhD wouldn't add enough for the extra energy invested.

I've been through enough defenses that I don't want to do another. I didn't want to go through the hassle of quals. I didn't want to be separated from patient care for the length of time it would require to get a PhD.

I especially didn't want to deal with the day-to-day terror that is being a grad student - being 100% dependent on your committee to tell you when "you've done enough work for your degree" (translation: they can't justify keeping you in slavery any longer and you'd rather quit than stay another year), waiting for your PI to tell you when you can start your thesis project, being dependent on you PI to get funding and to stay at the same institution (if not, you either also move or start a new thesis). Feeling like you can never relax because your PI wants you to go back to the lab and "run just a few more tests."

Admittedly, these thoughts are a mix of my experiences and anectdotes told to me, but the fact of the matter is that the graduate system gives students very little control and as a MD-to-be, you've got better things to do with your time than be a PI's pawn.

There are several year-off programs, as well as research opportunities for medical students and residents that will supplement your MD and MS to give you the skills you need to be a scientist in addition to a physician. My experience with these programs is that the med student has much more control. I can say what projects to pursue, I say how I want to explore a hypothesis, etc. I have also been given more support as a med student, both in mentoring and resources, than I did as a grad student. At my level of experience, I don't think I need to go back to square one to be a productive researcher in my career. Time will tell if I'm right.

 

[enolization]

Thanks guys, both responses were very helpful. I will consider the loan repayment program, however it seems limited to fairly clinical research.

 

[Vader]

I agree with both neuronix & rxnman. It sounds like you are pretty well versed in research, methodology, and have published extensively. Therefore, the PhD would not add significantly to your experience. I agree a year-long research program during med school in the area in which you are interested would be more than sufficient to launch your career. Look for programs that have good research in your area and funding mechanisms & flexibility to pursue it. Try to pick out ones with excellent potential mentors that will be supportive of your goals.

Also, if you are thinking about practicing medicine, then also think about where you might like to end up for residency (not necessarily the same institution) & look for opportunities for significant research time & support at that step as well.

 

[RxnMan]

...I agree a year-long research program during med school in the area in which you are interested would be more than sufficient to launch your career...

OP: If you want info on these sorts of opportunities, please try the research forum FAQ (link in my sig).

Or you can PM me.

 

[mdphd2010]

if you really want the letters phd after your name, i don't suppose there's an easy way to get it from your master's institution (e.g., doing a research year between medical school years I and II)? otherwise i don't believe it matters as much for grants in the engineering fields as it does in the basic science fields, but i could be mistaken ...