MD/MS vs MD/MBA

[AyyLMAO2020]

Current M2 at a med school with a top 5 business school. Interested in orthopedics. Would like to be involved in device development one day and keep the door open to working with industry. I'm thinking about doing a dual degree for a few reasons. I didn't take a gap year after undergrad, so I'm already quite young, and the extra year would just be another way to "catch up" with the age of everyone else. Although I have been heavily involved in research throughout undergrad and the past 1.5 years in med school, that extra year of the masters would give me more time to do research before I apply. In addition to these aforementioned reasons, here are my thoughts about the MD/MS and MD/MBA specifically:

MD/MS
Pros:
-apparently the program is really focused on both research and getting students involved with industry. A lot of students in the program are able to land an internship with device companies which sounds super cool. This is something I want to do, but don't really know how to do on my own if it weren't for a program.
-seems pretty chill. I have a strong science background so should be a breeze
-application process doesn't seem competitive. Will likely get it if I apply
Cons:
-not sure how useful the degree is.
-have to take GRE. No clue when/how I'm gonna study for and take this. I'm gonna be doing my core rotations and studying for step around when the application is due.

MD/MBA
Pros:
-MBA might have more utility down the line if I want to climb the administrative latter wherever I work
-MBA would also give me skills that I could use if I want to work with industry, maybe consulting?
-top MBA program, name recognition?
Cons:
-I have almost no business background. Have always been a science person. This might be a problem since the application looks like they're looking for people who have a business background or can clearly articulate why they need to have an MBA.
-much more competitive to get into (since its a top business school)
-have to take GMAT. same issue as above.

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[shotgunlagoon]

I took the GRE, it's literally just the SAT with a slightly more advanced content. I prepared for it about a week prior to the test by just doing a ton of practice problems and I scored above 85% percentile. If you can study like 30 minutes to an hour daily for 1 month prior to the test, you'll be more than prepared imo.

 

[stickgirl390]

I feel like the absence of a business background is why you should go the MBA route: you’ll need that knowledge to reach your future career goals, not just a science background.

 

[Browns99]

Get through med school first, lol.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

The MBA is infinitely more useful, especially if it's from a top school. Unless there is some specific skill you need to learn that you can't teach yourself, and you plan to be entrepreneurial with whatever you develop during the MS, what does the MS add? There is an absolute glut of people with technical skills, especially in medicine/biotech/pharma. Masters programs are a cash cow for schools, and the result is flooding the market with STEM grads. Meanwhile, I worked at a pharma startup coming out of a top med school and we could barely find qualified MBAs with experience in translational medicine.

In pharma/industry a PhD is required for any research-oriented work. A masters is a nice, "oh you have a cursory understanding of science, cool." As a physician collaborating with industry, you are already considered sufficiently technical. The MBA gives you a new set of skills and, much more importantly, a chance to hobknob and make connections with future collaborators.

I haven't seen an MD/MS move anyone's career forward, personally. The MS is usually a degree you acquire beforehand to pad a resume and help someone get the MD. In rare cases, someone might get an MS as part of a research project in residency, but then it's more a technicality.

Another option, if you are rejected from the MBA, is to get involved with some entrepreneurial or industry-oriented work during residency. This could set you up for admission to a top MBA program sometime as an attending. During your time doing the MBA, network and get involved in some industry projects, because the MBA on it's own is useless. The MBA is the time to make contacts and carve out a spot for yourself in some niche.

 

[aldol16]

The MBA is infinitely more useful, especially if it's from a top school. Unless there is some specific skill you need to learn that you can't teach yourself, and you plan to be entrepreneurial with whatever you develop during the MS, what does the MS add? There is an absolute glut of people with technical skills, especially in medicine/biotech/pharma. Masters programs are a cash cow for schools, and the result is flooding the market with STEM grads. Meanwhile, I worked at a pharma startup coming out of a top med school and we could barely find qualified MBAs with experience in translational medicine.

Agree that the MS doesn't add anything and really isn't useful unless you do a research year and can get it for free or something. The MBA, though, is something that you should really think hard about. It's an expensive degree and it may not be relevant to what you want to do. You should have a clear idea of what you want to do with it before you apply.

I don't agree with the concept of a "qualified" MBA. You don't absolutely need an MBA to do anything really. The MBA is more about the experience and networking than it is about teaching you real, tangible skills that you couldn't learn on the job (quite easily).

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Since you are an MD candidate, you will get into the MBA program even if it's GSB, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg or HBS. Don't do the MS. MBA opens more doors and sets you up with a better alumni base.

 

[GoSpursGo]

When it comes to these advanced programs, I think the question absolutely has to be what are you going to do with it.

Yeah, an MBA from a top school sounds cool, but what are you ACTUALLY going to do with it? If you know, then that's great and you should go for it--but you should be aware that it will do almost nothing for you when it comes to applying to residency. The MS winds up being useful in the short term because it gives you protected time for research which makes you competitive for residencies, and connects you with medical device companies. 5-10 years down the line, it's probably worthless letters on your white coat, but the research lines on your CV and the connections you made never expire.

Totally different degrees with totally different endgames, IMO.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Current M2 at a med school with a top 5 business school. Interested in orthopedics. Would like to be involved in device development one day and keep the door open to working with industry. I'm thinking about doing a dual degree for a few reasons. I didn't take a gap year after undergrad, so I'm already quite young, and the extra year would just be another way to "catch up" with the age of everyone else. Although I have been heavily involved in research throughout undergrad and the past 1.5 years in med school, that extra year of the masters would give me more time to do research before I apply. In addition to these aforementioned reasons, here are my thoughts about the MD/MS and MD/MBA specifically:

MD/MS
Pros:
-apparently the program is really focused on both research and getting students involved with industry. A lot of students in the program are able to land an internship with device companies which sounds super cool. This is something I want to do, but don't really know how to do on my own if it weren't for a program.
-seems pretty chill. I have a strong science background so should be a breeze
-application process doesn't seem competitive. Will likely get it if I apply
Cons:
-not sure how useful the degree is.
-have to take GRE. No clue when/how I'm gonna study for and take this. I'm gonna be doing my core rotations and studying for step around when the application is due.

MD/MBA
Pros:
-MBA might have more utility down the line if I want to climb the administrative latter wherever I work
-MBA would also give me skills that I could use if I want to work with industry, maybe consulting?
-top MBA program, name recognition?
Cons:
-I have almost no business background. Have always been a science person. This might be a problem since the application looks like they're looking for people who have a business background or can clearly articulate why they need to have an MBA.
-much more competitive to get into (since its a top business school)
-have to take GMAT. same issue as above.

You can be involved in device development and work with industry without either of those degrees.

 

[aldol16]

Yeah, an MBA from a top school sounds cool, but what are you ACTUALLY going to do with it? If you know, then that's great and you should go for it--but you should be aware that it will do almost nothing for you when it comes to applying to residency. The MS winds up being useful in the short term because it gives you protected time for research which makes you competitive for residencies, and connects you with medical device companies. 5-10 years down the line, it's probably worthless letters on your white coat, but the research lines on your CV and the connections you made never expire.

Totally agree that for the MBA, having a vision for it is very important - not only for admission to the MBA program (which, unlike an earlier poster said, is not assured just because you go to medical school - unless explicitly stated) but also for residency and what comes after.

However, disagree that the MS connects you with device companies. Going through the process of getting the MS degree doesn't necessarily put you in contact with device companies and certainly doesn't make you any more qualified to work with a device company than you would otherwise be. I know many people who work with device companies through their connections that did not involve an MS degree.

Finally, I also think there is the fallacy of grouping the MS degree with research, which are separable ideas. Certainly an MS will require some research in addition to classes. But you can get the research without getting the MS - that's the point. An MS is a revenue generator for the university and they basically give you a worthless piece of paper. If you want the lines on your CV, you could seek out yearlong fellowships that will pay you to do research - you'd get more time for research then anyway because you don't have to satisfy the course requirements for the MS.

 

[aldol16]

You can be involved in device development and work with industry without either of those degrees.

There's very little - nothing that I can think of off the top of my head - that you absolutely need an MBA for. In fact, Elon Musk recently had a very interesting perspective on MBAs.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Totally agree that for the MBA, having a vision for it is very important - not only for admission to the MBA program (which, unlike an earlier poster said, is not assured just because you go to medical school - unless explicitly stated) but also for residency and what comes after.

However, disagree that the MS connects you with device companies. Going through the process of getting the MS degree doesn't necessarily put you in contact with device companies and certainly doesn't make you any more qualified to work with a device company than you would otherwise be. I know many people who work with device companies through their connections that did not involve an MS degree.

Finally, I also think there is the fallacy of grouping the MS degree with research, which are separable ideas. Certainly an MS will require some research in addition to classes. But you can get the research without getting the MS - that's the point. An MS is a revenue generator for the university and they basically give you a worthless piece of paper. If you want the lines on your CV, you could seek out yearlong fellowships that will pay you to do research - you'd get more time for research then anyway because you don't have to satisfy the course requirements for the MS.

In general I also wouldn’t expect an MS to get you contacts with a device company, except the OP explicitly said his program would.

Yes you can do research without an MS, and if that’s all you want then on the whole you’re probably better off just doing a research year or a fellowship. But depending on the program, there may be other specific aspects, such as connections to the device companies as outlined by the OP, which could make the degree worth it. My point was really that between the MS and MBA, the MS is probably going to help more for residency apps because the associated research will be have some weight in the selection process as opposed to the MBA which will probably be essentially worthless at that stage in the career. The MS is one way to get protected research time, albeit an expensive one.

 

[AyyLMAO2020]

Wow, lots of useful feedback here. Thanks everyone! I could care less what either degree does in terms of actually getting into residency. I see my career going in the direction of one of the surgeons that I work with who happens to have an MBA and is involved with device development and does consulting for a few companies. A nice added perk is that it keeps the door open if I ever want to climb the administrative ladder, but not sure I want to go in that direction yet. Definitely want to do device development though. The MBA certainly isn't required, but I think it would give me business skills that I currently don't have (working in/leading a team, developing/marketing a product, whatever else they teach you). I've always been quite intimidated by anything business/financial related, so I think the MBA would definitely teach me more.

So I think my plan is to take the GMAT/GRE and apply to the MBA. Will make sure to make it very clear to them that I want it because I plan to go into device development and work with industry, so business skills would be useful. If i'm accepted, great, if not, then I'll consider the MS or just forget it and apply straight to residency if I feel my app is ready.

 

[aldol16]

So I think my plan is to take the GMAT/GRE and apply to the MBA. Will make sure to make it very clear to them that I want it because I plan to go into device development and work with industry, so business skills would be useful. If i'm accepted, great, if not, then I'll consider the MS or just forget it and apply straight to residency if I feel my app is ready.

Also be careful who you say that to. Being very invested in industry makes you a less attractive candidate for some residencies because they may have been burned in the past by residents who jump ship to go work in business (happens more often than you think).

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Totally agree that for the MBA, having a vision for it is very important - not only for admission to the MBA program (which, unlike an earlier poster said, is not assured just because you go to medical school - unless explicitly stated) but also for residency and what comes after.

However, disagree that the MS connects you with device companies. Going through the process of getting the MS degree doesn't necessarily put you in contact with device companies and certainly doesn't make you any more qualified to work with a device company than you would otherwise be. I know many people who work with device companies through their connections that did not involve an MS degree.

Finally, I also think there is the fallacy of grouping the MS degree with research, which are separable ideas. Certainly an MS will require some research in addition to classes. But you can get the research without getting the MS - that's the point. An MS is a revenue generator for the university and they basically give you a worthless piece of paper. If you want the lines on your CV, you could seek out yearlong fellowships that will pay you to do research - you'd get more time for research then anyway because you don't have to satisfy the course requirements for the MS.

Believe or not, MBA admissions at those top places are assured if you are a medical student. MBA is a way lesser degree when you are getting an MD which is a doctorate level terminal degree.

 

[aldol16]

Believe or not, MBA admissions at those top places are assured if you are a medical student. MBA is a way lesser degree when you are getting an MD which is a doctorate level terminal degree.

Yeah, not true of all of them. I know several people from my class who applied and were rejected.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

I don't agree with the concept of a "qualified" MBA. You don't absolutely need an MBA to do anything really. The MBA is more about the experience and networking than it is about teaching you real, tangible skills that you couldn't learn on the job (quite easily).

Fair. When I say "MBAs" it's really code for "people with business experience." We tended to call them "MBAs" even if they didn't have the degree, probably because we are in a field where it's so common to refer to people's roles by their education (e.g., MDs or PhDs).

It's hard to signify that you are one of these people as an MD though, because you will always primarily be seen as technical. It's also hard to get into the sorts of environments where you'd get a position to give you that business experience. So the networking is the biggest part, but maybe even more valuable for an MD since you're not exactly bopping around in business environments all day. It really depends on the field I guess. In hospital admin, the MBA can get you further consideration because these are positions you are hired into, often internally. In pharma, bigtime CMOs often get experience as CEO of smaller companies, usually ones they founded themselves, and the MBA is irrelevant.

 

[aldol16]

Fair. When I say "MBAs" it's really code for "people with business experience." We tended to call them "MBAs" even if they didn't have the degree, probably because we are in a field where it's so common to refer to people's roles by their education (e.g., MDs or PhDs).

That should really be clarified at the outset when you're responding to a poster who's explicitly considering an MBA (the degree) and not just looking for business experience.

It's hard to signify that you are one of these people as an MD though, because you will always primarily be seen as technical. It's also hard to get into the sorts of environments where you'd get a position to give you that business experience. So the networking is the biggest part, but maybe even more valuable for an MD since you're not exactly bopping around in business environments all day. It really depends on the field I guess. In hospital admin, the MBA can get you further consideration because these are positions you are hired into, often internally. In pharma, bigtime CMOs often get experience as CEO of smaller companies, usually ones they founded themselves, and the MBA is irrelevant.

As you point out, networking is essential, whether you have an MBA or not. The MBA gets you networking during the MBA experience but it's still up to you to meet people. You can certainly meet people as an MD but again, you just have additional clinical responsibilities at the same time. Nowadays, hospital leadership is often hired through executive search firms which often specialize in the healthcare industry.