MD necessary for healthcare management?

[wwwwwhs]

I'm looking to eventually get into healthcare & hospital administration and have been accepted to a few healthcare management programs for Fall 2015. After talking to some professionals in the field however, they've unanimously told me that it will be very difficult to climb the career ladder without a clinical background.

Some have went so far as to say that an MD is almost now a necessity to become a top executive at a hospital/ healthcare organization because it shows you have a professional background and lends credibility. Are any of you guys in a similar position or heard similar things?

I would even consider getting an MD after my MPH but still not sure how the timing would work. Say I went straight from my MPH to an MD, upon graduation and residency I'd be practicing as a physician. Without any actual management experience, wouldn't it even be more difficult to get into the management track? Do hospitals put physicians in management roles even if they haven't had any real life management experience?

If any of you are in the same boat or have been through this, would love to hear your thoughts.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Solara]

My best advice is to ask this same question in the Med Business forum since people there are more familiar with this topic: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/med-business-md-mba-do-mba-dds-mba.108/

My personal opinion is that, yes, you do need an MD if you want to be a senior healthcare executive. You need the clinical background to have the legitimacy and credibility to be in healthcare management.

Straight out of residency, you won't have had any high-level management experience, but this is how most people start. You start by making connections with hospital executives, start practicing medicine, apply for lower-level management positions, gain some experience, work up the ladder, and then get to the higher level positions. I would also recommend looking into fellowships that train physicians for healthcare management. That might be more appealing than an MBA/MPH since fellowships give you more specialized, hands-on training.

Med school is a long road, but if it's what you really want to do, then don't hesitate to do it.

 

[kc1223]

I would say it depends on what you consider a "top executive" to be. I work at a top-10 hospital, and our CEO is not an MD, and the C-suite is filled with people of various backgrounds. Most top level hospitals will have an MD as their president/CEO, but that doesn't mean that their entire corporation is only filled with doctors. From my experience, most organizations either split their medical and business entities, or have them working cohesively, meaning you would have medical professionals and business professionals working together.

So what determines being a top executive in your eyes will be your ultimate factor. Can you be chief of surgery with only an MHA/MPH? No. But you can certainly move into top level management in a health organization without having a medical degree.

I would also say that more research based institutions will tend to have more MDs in their leadership staff, whereas regional hopsitals will have more of a business minded leadership team.

Just my two cents.

 

[CopperStripes]

If you want to do administration without clinical care, my advice would be don't go to medical school. kc1223 is right - there are a lot of MD C-level folks, but there are a lot of administrators who aren't MDs as well. If you skip med school and residency, you have 7-10 years of experience by the time would otherwise be getting your first 'real' job out of residency. That's ample time to work your way up in the administration world.

Also, there are a bunch of healthcare administrative fellowships geared toward folks with an MPH but no MD. These are a great way to get your foot in the door. Here are a couple examples:

Duke: http://adminfellowship.duhs.duke.edu/modules/adfellow_dhosp/index.php?id=1
BU: http://www.bmc.org/about/careers/administrative-fellowship.htm

 

[yeee]

The CEOs of my the hospitals in my hometown as well as college town have either an MPH, MHA, or MBA.

 

[wwwwwhs]

My best advice is to ask this same question in the Med Business forum since people there are more familiar with this topic: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/med-business-md-mba-do-mba-dds-mba.108/

My personal opinion is that, yes, you do need an MD if you want to be a senior healthcare executive. You need the clinical background to have the legitimacy and credibility to be in healthcare management.

Straight out of residency, you won't have had any high-level management experience, but this is how most people start. You start by making connections with hospital executives, start practicing medicine, apply for lower-level management positions, gain some experience, work up the ladder, and then get to the higher level positions. I would also recommend looking into fellowships that train physicians for healthcare management. That might be more appealing than an MBA/MPH since fellowships give you more specialized, hands-on training.

Med school is a long road, but if it's what you really want to do, then don't hesitate to do it.

Solara, I appreciate the advice, looking through the Med Business forum it seems like there are lots of others in a similar position.

When you say fellowships that train physicians for HCM do you mean after the whole internship and residency?

 

[wwwwwhs]

I would say it depends on what you consider a "top executive" to be. I work at a top-10 hospital, and our CEO is not an MD, and the C-suite is filled with people of various backgrounds. Most top level hospitals will have an MD as their president/CEO, but that doesn't mean that their entire corporation is only filled with doctors. From my experience, most organizations either split their medical and business entities, or have them working cohesively, meaning you would have medical professionals and business professionals working together.

So what determines being a top executive in your eyes will be your ultimate factor. Can you be chief of surgery with only an MHA/MPH? No. But you can certainly move into top level management in a health organization without having a medical degree.

I would also say that more research based institutions will tend to have more MDs in their leadership staff, whereas regional hopsitals will have more of a business minded leadership team.

Just my two cents.

Yes, that really helps put things into perspective. I guess they're not looking for a physician to be CFO's or CMO's, how many physicians can you have in the c-suite right.

If you want to do administration without clinical care, my advice would be don't go to medical school. kc1223 is right - there are a lot of MD C-level folks, but there are a lot of administrators who aren't MDs as well. If you skip med school and residency, you have 7-10 years of experience by the time would otherwise be getting your first 'real' job out of residency. That's ample time to work your way up in the administration world.

Also, there are a bunch of healthcare administrative fellowships geared toward folks with an MPH but no MD. These are a great way to get your foot in the door. Here are a couple examples:

Duke: http://adminfellowship.duhs.duke.edu/modules/adfellow_dhosp/index.php?id=1
BU: http://www.bmc.org/about/careers/administrative-fellowship.htm

Thanks for the fellowship examples, they're really helpful for reference. 7-10 years is definitely quite a long time, and it seems like the physicians then would require another 3-5 years to get onto the management track. I know now it seems like a lot of senior management don't come from medical backgrounds but do you guys find that there is an increased push towards having MD's in these positions?

Also I guess then the age- old question comes back, I mean to affect change you definitely need clinician buy-in, how do you prove your credibility without a clinical background. Is it just experience?

 

[Jahall05]

I am new to this forum, but I will give my input here. Where I am from, the largest healthcare system in Pennsylvania (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center) regularly hires and assigns MPH, MHA, and MBA graduates to high up management levels. Most of which do not have a clinical background. However, an MPH is valuable simply because you may not have a clinical background, but you can (or I should say, should) be able to understand the basics of what is going on in a medical facility. The MBA and MHA are so close to one another anymore simply because you can find MBA's with healthcare track options, but the MPH (in my opinion) sets you apart simply because with an MPH you have a, though not nearly as extensive as a clinician, background in both medicine and business.

At least this is what I have gathered from my research so far.

 

[Masgniw]

I have an MPH and worked in a hospital setting for two years.

Almost every administrator/manager does indeed have some clinical background. While there are a few low level/practice managers who do have only an MHA or similar degree, the higher ups all have some clinical background, be it MD, PharmD, RN/NP, etc. I don't think there's a NEED to have an MD, but I think your growth potential is rather limited with no clinical degree to back it up.

And this isn't a status thing. The decisions healthcare admin/managers are making often weigh complicated and nuanced medical considerations. It's hugely practical.

 

[wwwwwhs]

I am new to this forum, but I will give my input here. Where I am from, the largest healthcare system in Pennsylvania (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center) regularly hires and assigns MPH, MHA, and MBA graduates to high up management levels. Most of which do not have a clinical background. However, an MPH is valuable simply because you may not have a clinical background, but you can (or I should say, should) be able to understand the basics of what is going on in a medical facility. The MBA and MHA are so close to one another anymore simply because you can find MBA's with healthcare track options, but the MPH (in my opinion) sets you apart simply because with an MPH you have a, though not nearly as extensive as a clinician, background in both medicine and business.

At least this is what I have gathered from my research so far.

I have an MPH and worked in a hospital setting for two years.

Almost every administrator/manager does indeed have some clinical background. While there are a few low level/practice managers who do have only an MHA or similar degree, the higher ups all have some clinical background, be it MD, PharmD, RN/NP, etc. I don't think there's a NEED to have an MD, but I think your growth potential is rather limited with no clinical degree to back it up.

And this isn't a status thing. The decisions healthcare admin/managers are making often weigh complicated and nuanced medical considerations. It's hugely practical.

Yea I definitely feel like there is an increased push towards having more clinicians in these management positions. It is true that a lot of large medical centres and hospitals have non-clinicians in top positions but that maybe a result of them getting into these positions before having a clinical background was such an emphasis. In any case I'll be going into an MPH first and we'll see where that leads.

Really appreciate everybody's feedback and advice.