MD/PhD and entering General Surgery? Need some info!

[chef]

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Hi guys -

I'm a MSTP M4 and always thought I'd go into IM.. but after rotating through surgery just recently, I'm seriously considering surgery now.

I'm most interested in plastic surgery but I might have to do general surgery and then plastics fellowship since I'm very late to the game and have no connections whatsoever.

Is it very uncommon for MSTPs to go into surgery? How competitive is it to get a spot at one of the "big name" research-oriented programs? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[SocialistMD]

Is it very uncommon for MSTPs to go into surgery? How competitive is it to get a spot at one of the "big name" research-oriented programs? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

We average one every other year and see a handful each application cycle, so it isn't that uncommon. One of my classmates from medical school just finished his PhD and matched in general surgery this last year. It is just as competitive as it is for non-MSTPs, as I don't know that the PhD gains you much of an advantage (especially considering the fact that "big name research-oriented programs" tend to want residents who are interested in going into lab, and most MD/PhDs just want to get through residency, as they already have enough lab experience). Plastics is a little different; we have one MD/PhD in our plastics program that I can think of off the top of my head, but then again it is a smaller number of residents per class.

In the end, you shouldn't worry about how many MSTPs go into [field] and instead choose what you enjoy.

 

[JackADeli]

...In the end, you shouldn't worry about how many MSTPs go into [field] and instead choose what you enjoy.

From a general sense, I absolutely agree. Think of it from a different perspective, the vast majority of applicants you are competing against in the application process are NOT MSTP. Thus, your competition is NOT MSTP students.

First, check this link out: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=500004

I will add my usual plug.... find a good advisor at your program. You are at a school with an MSTP program. It would be highly unlikely that such a caliber med-school lacks a qualified advisor to help you.

For the most part, all you will get is quite generic replies and general advise from anonymous folks on these web-forums. There is nothing magical about SDN or these forums. Ultimately, advisors, and your chairman are your best answer.

Go to your local advisors, mentors, and program chairs to get a more accurate level of guidance....Those are people that consider the match strategically every year. An additional degree should not hurt you and will likely help..... but again check with folks in the heat of it. Feel free to let us know how you do....




JAD

 

[SocialistMD]

Think of it from a different perspective, the vast majority of applicants you are competing against in the application process are NOT MSTP. Thus, your competition is NOT MSTP students.

Which would be the case if you were applying to pretty much anything with the possible exception of rad onc, so I'm not sure that makes much of a difference here.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Agree with the above.

There are not a LOT of MD/PhDs when compared to Rad Onc, but there are certainly some in most larger, academic programs, especially "big name research oriented" ones.

But even if there wasn't, what difference does it make? Do what interests you. There are plenty of gen surg specialties that are research heavy - either because of the competition to get in (Plastics) or because of the nature of the field (Surg Onc).

Competition to get into gen surg at a big name program depends on the same things it does at other places: Step 1 scores, LORs and connections. I'm not sure the PhD adds much.

 

[DBJ]

Hey chef, I just matched into general surgery with a PhD in biomedical engineering so I can give you my thoughts.

To answer your question about competitiveness, my experience was that residency programs ate it up. You may have found that surgeons like to stay pretty connected to the basic sciences, including research, so most interviewers seemed pretty excited that I was poised for an academic career. From the statistics I saw, there are only about 10 people a year who apply to GS with PhDs. So you'll definitely stand out. I wanted to match at a big academic program, and I had no problem getting the interviews, and eventually the match, that I wanted.

My research was in tissue engineering, which seems to be a hot topic among surgeons these days, so that was an added benefit. Try to portray your research in a way that relates to surgical applications to get the most benefit from it in the application process.

You will also not be required to do research years at some programs that normally require this (e.g. UCLA). However - and this is a big however - you may be forced to take off time for scheduling purposes if there are not enough/too many residents entering the next year, but you can do something other than research.

If you love surgery, go for it! Because there are so few MD/PhDs in surgery (relative to other areas of medicine) you'll always carry a unique credibility in your field, and it should be easier to get grants, publish, etc. Surgeons have a long tradition of contributing to science, and I think it's an exciting time for developing technology that relates to surgery.

Good luck. Let me know if you've got more specific questions.

DB

 

[DBJ]

Hey chef, I just matched into general surgery with a PhD in biomedical engineering so I can give you my thoughts.

To answer your question about competitiveness, my experience was that residency programs ate it up. You may have found that surgeons like to stay pretty connected to the basic sciences, including research, so most interviewers seemed pretty excited that I was poised for an academic career. From the statistics I saw, there are only about 10 people a year who apply to GS with PhDs. So you'll definitely stand out. I wanted to match at a big academic program, and I had no problem getting the interviews, and eventually the match, that I wanted.

My research was in tissue engineering, which seems to be a hot topic among surgeons these days, so that was an added benefit. Try to portray your research in a way that relates to surgical applications to get the most benefit from it in the application process.

You will also not be required to do research years at some programs that normally require this (e.g. UCLA). However - and this is a big however - you may be forced to take off time for scheduling purposes if there are not enough/too many residents entering the next year, but you can do something other than research.

If you love surgery, go for it! Because there are so few MD/PhDs in surgery (relative to other areas of medicine) you'll always carry a unique credibility in your field, and it should be easier to get grants, publish, etc. Surgeons have a long tradition of contributing to science, and I think it's an exciting time for developing technology that relates to surgery.

Good luck. Let me know if you've got more specific questions.

DB

 

[AlloImmune]

Chef-
Am currently a resident completing my second year at a big name surgical institution with and MD/PhD. Your PhD can make you stand out during interviews, and many programs will be very excited to interview. It can open doors for you.

My advice to you is to know what your plans are for additional research during your residency and to be very up front with the programs while you are interviewing. Many of the top academic programs require 2 years of research. As previously mentioned, this may be waived at some programs. I would suggest (if an additional 2 years of research during your residency does not appeal to you) not excluding places for interviews just based on a research requirement. However, be very careful about believing guarantees of not having to do research from these programs, as they will tend to tell you what you want to hear to recruit you. Most places will give you preference to go straight through if a spot becomes available, but you should be willing to do the two years if you rank one of those institutions highly.

Good luck!