MD/PhD Chances

[predental94]

Hi all,

Automatically assigned this username. Maybe I should have it changed to pre-mstp. I read the sticky but think I might need individual advice on my application. After getting rejected from 2 out of 3 MSTP programs (UWisconsin, URochester, and OHSU which are my middles) where I interviewed for 2017-2018 cycle, I think I need to consider reapplying. I don't know whether I should reapply now or get another year of post-bac research before reapplying.

Asian male and recent immigrant.
Fee Assistance Program-eligible.
Residence in Montana.
I have a US green card. I don't know if US citizenship would have increased my chances. Would some schools differentiate US citizens from green card holders? In one of my interviews, they did ask whether I was an international student (maybe the interviewer forgot my info).

I'm interested in oncology and cancer and epigenetics research. I think oncology might be competitive since a lot of people seem interested in it.

I started in junior college and transferred to a top liberal arts college with full scholarship. I took most of my upper science classes in my 4-year college. I graduated in 2017.

MCAT 513 (129/124/130/130). I'm concerned about my low verbal score and think it might have hurt my interview chances in 2017-2018 cycle.

sGPA 3.89; cGPA 3.86. Majored in biology.

I did two summers of research and a senior thesis (cum laude honors). I'm currently in my 1st gap year and working as a tech in an Ivy League medical school where I worked for one summer.

1 research article and 1 clinical review article published (Impact factor < 5 journals so I don't know if it counts much)

Clinical experiences:
>100 hours of shadowing in a tertiary cancer center
8-hour shadowing with a physician-scientist, other shadowing with an ER doctor and a pediatrician (total of 16 hours)
One-year volunteer project in a hospital's oncology ward. A couple of weeks volunteering in a local nursing home.

Non-clinical experiences:
2.5 academic years of volunteering in a homeless shelter (2 hours a week)
Vice president of a science club in my junior college
Member of a pre-med health club for one semester. Intramural sport for one semester.

Schools applied to in 2017-2018 cycle:
Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, Stanford, UCSF, UWisconsin, UCSD, UWash, Georgetown, Rochester, UT Southwestern, Baylor, CU Denver, UNC, OHSU, Minnesota, Rutgers Robertwood Johnson, Penn State, 2 MD safety schools are Loyola Chicago and California North State (a for-profit medical school).
Is this list too heavy especially when I didn't have an extra gap year of research back then?

Should I retake the MCAT and wait another year to reapply (in 2019-2020 cycle)? My current PI said that she could write a very strong and detailed letter now that I spent a year in her lab but I think another year of full-time research would yield at least two co-author papers in good journals.

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[Future MD/PhD]

I think your list was a bit too top heavy given your stats. If you think you can retake the MCAT and increase your score by at least 5 points, then I think you should consider doing that while also doing research on the side. Do you think your verbal score suffered because English isn't your first language? I don't know how you could address that, but it's probably worth addressing. I know that international students have a harder time with MD/PhD programs because you're not eligible for a lot of them. Try adding Dartmouth to your list tho. They accept international students and I know people in the program with similar stats. How many interviews did you get this cycle and how many schools are you still waiting to hear back from?

 

[Lucca]

I think your list was a bit too top heavy given your stats. If you think you can retake the MCAT and increase your score by at least 5 points, then I think you should consider doing that while also doing research on the side. Do you think your verbal score suffered because English isn't your first language? I don't know how you could address that, but it's probably worth addressing. I know that international students have a harder time with MD/PhD programs because you're not eligible for a lot of them. Try adding Dartmouth to your list tho. They accept international students and I know people in the program with similar stats. How many interviews did you get this cycle and how many schools are you still waiting to hear back from?

Op has a green card, he is not an international student

 

[Lucca]

Agree: list is top heavy.

Verbal score is very problematic...probably the easiest section to be forgiven for someone who is not a native speaker but 124 is pretty low. You got 3 interviews so obviously some schools were OK considering you. Did you talk about being a new immigrant in your app / not being a native English speaker?

I think retaking the McAT is up to you. I would only do it if I was very confident that I could keep those science scores where they are and bring up verbal considerably (up to 127/128 at least). It’s your call.

That being said, I think you would’ve had a better cycle focusing on schools like the ones that gave you an interview and shaving off top tier schools like HMS/JHU

 

[predental94]

Thanks so much for chiming in. Still waiting to hear back from OHSU but not too excited about their program (I'd rather wait another year or two). In my application I talked about coming to study in the US and mentioned my situation as a new immigrant in some secondaries.

I think it would be tough for me to get a higher verbal score. My highest score was 126 in an AAMC practice test. Maybe that would help if I could hold my other scores constant...

Do you think I would be more competitive in the 2018-2019 cycle? I do think I would be more competitive in 2019-2020 cycle with > 2 publications and two years of full-time research.

 

[Lucca]

Thanks so much for chiming in. Still waiting to hear back from OHSU but not too excited about their program (I'd rather wait another year or two). In my application I talked about coming to study in the US and mentioned my situation as a new immigrant in some secondaries.

I think it would be tough for me to get a higher verbal score. My highest score was 126 in an AAMC practice test. Maybe that would help if I could hold my other scores constant...

Do you think I would be more competitive in the 2018-2019 cycle? I do think I would be more competitive in 2019-2020 cycle with > 2 publications and two years of full-time research.

This is a tough case I wouldn’t feel comfortable on chancing really because it’s a bit of an odd situation with your stats / research. I do feel strongly about applying with a better/broader/more targeted school list.

I think you would benefit from hearing from the PDs here or maybe even asking some schools for feedback?

 

[s_med]

Thanks so much for chiming in. Still waiting to hear back from OHSU but not too excited about their program (I'd rather wait another year or two). In my application I talked about coming to study in the US and mentioned my situation as a new immigrant in some secondaries.

I think it would be tough for me to get a higher verbal score. My highest score was 126 in an AAMC practice test. Maybe that would help if I could hold my other scores constant...

Do you think I would be more competitive in the 2018-2019 cycle? I do think I would be more competitive in 2019-2020 cycle with > 2 publications and two years of full-time research.

I'd be very hesitant to retake MCAT without reaching the 128+ mark on verbal as @Lucca said, but a higher verbal score will certainly help. Your science subsection scores are good... I think some programs will be willing to overlook the verbal score, but the highly ranked programs you tried during this cycle are unlikely to fall into that category.

2 summers + senior thesis strikes me as being on the low side of research experience for the programs to which you applied. If you think an additional year of research will be productive and yield better LORs, it may be worth it to wait. If you are really motivated to nail the MCAT, the extra time will be of use. If you reapply this cycle (i.e. in the next month) and don't hit your target again, chances of a successful third cycle are slim.

Re: low impact factor of papers, and applying in the "competitive" cancer fields -- I wouldn't worry about either of these.

 

[Fencer]

Would some schools differentiate US citizens from green card holders?

No, this is about funding the spot. NIH grants make no difference between the two.

You were too elitist applying in the 2018 cycle... You can in a few weeks for the 2019 cycle, but you need to apply a broader group of MSTPs, while still pursuing laboratory research for this coming year. If you are unlikely to improve substantially your MCAT, I wouldn't take it again. Your academic benchmarks are within the targets of the national matriculating MD/PhD class, but not for the programs that you applied. PM me if you want more specific advice.

PS. see this table: https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/factstableb8.pdf
Dartmouth had 299 MD/PhD applicants for 2 matriculating slots in 2017.

 

[predental94]

Thanks for your help. I forgot to add that I applied late last cycle. I submitted my secondaries in the beginning of Octorber. Also, I don't know how programs would look at applicants who apply three times or more. I talked to Penn adcom and they said it didn't matter for their school.

 

[InactiveLurker]

I got 132/126/130/128 and had a good cycle as a recent immigrant, but my verbal came out in a few of my interviews, where i would say that i am keep working and improving my language and would give specific examples. I think 126 is basically a hard cutoff for many schools nowadays and i would retake 124 for sure.

 

[s_med]

I forgot to add that I applied late last cycle. I submitted my secondaries in the beginning of Octorber.

That's an important detail...

See this oft-referenced page from the WashU MSTP that illustrates how interview availability changes over time. I know you did not apply to WashU, but their timeline is likely similar to many programs. You need to submit AMCAS and secondaries as soon as possible. I submitted secondaries in mid-September and missed out on MSTP interviews at three of the programs you listed due to filled slots, even with more competitive scores.

I don't know how programs would look at applicants who apply three times or more

During my cycle I was told multiple times that applying more than twice is not advisable. However, there are surely exceptions.

 

[predental94]

So Penn MSTP adcom person said many schools reduce the MCAT to a single number - the overall percentile - but not all. My overall is still low for those top schools so I'll get rid of most of them from my wish list. That's why I think that I might use more publications to offset the so so MCAT scores. My MD/PhD labmate had like 29 and 31 for her two MCAT attempts but had like 8-10 publications from good journals by the time she applied.

 

[Lucca]

So Penn MSTP adcom person said many schools reduce the MCAT to a single number - the overall percentile - but not all. My overall is still low for those top schools so I'll get rid of most of them from my wish list. That's why I think that I might use more publications to offset the so so MCAT scores. My MD/PhD labmate had like 29 and 31 for her two MCAT attempts but had like 8-10 publications from good journals by the time she applied.

You don’t need publications to have a successful cycle. I would argue that if you have 8-10 before the PhD you don’t even need a PhD...You already have 2 peer reviewed articles, in any case.

2 summers of research is just not a lot for MD/PHD. This next cycle you will apply early (!!) with a better school list and 1 more year of research experience than before.