MD/PhD dropout stigma

[nevergraduating]

Hello

I started the grad school portion last Fall after doing fairly well during M1/M2. For a number of reasons, I decided that the lab I am currently working in is not for me. I have not been doing very well in my courses and at this point have not even started on a project. Everybody tells me to leave the lab I am currently in and I will probably do so very soon. The problem is that at this point I am no longer at all motivated to do the PhD. I have had such a horrible experience that I think I would rather drop out than risk having this happen again. There is one lab I think I could be happy in but I'm not even sure if they would take me. I really wanted to do the PhD at the beginning but had that beaten out of me. I think I would like to give a research career another shot but probably not until after medical school.

At this point, the only thing that keeps me from dropping out of the dual degree program and going back to med school is guilt. I feel guilty for taking the program's resources for two years and now quitting. They have been very supportive, but obviously don't want me to leave the program. At the same time, I'm told not to do a PhD I wouldn't enjoy. This is a serious dilemma for me. I'm also worried about the stigma an MD/PhD dropout might encounter. Does anybody know of any dropouts and how that affected their career? Should I give it another shot?

Really, if I could repay the program for the first two years so I wouldn't have to feel so guilty for dropping the PhD I would do so in a heartbeat.

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[mercaptovizadeh]

Hello

I started the grad school portion last Fall after doing fairly well during M1/M2. For a number of reasons, I decided that the lab I am currently working in is not for me. I have not been doing very well in my courses and at this point have not even started on a project. Everybody tells me to leave the lab I am currently in and I will probably do so very soon. The problem is that at this point I am no longer at all motivated to do the PhD. I have had such a horrible experience that I think I would rather drop out than risk having this happen again. There is one lab I think I could be happy in but I'm not even sure if they would take me. I really wanted to do the PhD at the beginning but had that beaten out of me. I think I would like to give a research career another shot but probably not until after medical school.

At this point, the only thing that keeps me from dropping out of the dual degree program and going back to med school is guilt. I feel guilty for taking the program's resources for two years and now quitting. They have been very supportive, but obviously don't want me to leave the program. At the same time, I'm told not to do a PhD I wouldn't enjoy. This is a serious dilemma for me. I'm also worried about the stigma an MD/PhD dropout might encounter. Does anybody know of any dropouts and how that affected their career? Should I give it another shot?

Really, if I could repay the program for the first two years so I wouldn't have to feel so guilty for dropping the PhD I would do so in a heartbeat.

Are you MSTP? If so, you are not obligated to payback. On the other hand, if you want to, you can express this desire (of course, don't sign anything) and you can do a payback if you wish.

I commend you sense of responsibility; however, you should NOT feel guilty. You were not cynical when you applied and you didn't intend all along to drop out after 2 years. The fact that you've gone through some graduate school attests to that. The PhD (and the MD, to be honest) are nothing like what we imagine them to be when we apply. I'm sure lots of people think of quitting both components, but especially the PhD. One of the biggest factors, I think, is the lack of a timetable and clear direction. With the MD, you know it's 4 years, you know what you need to do (read the syllabus, study for the shelf exam, etc.) and you know how long each course/clerkship will be. With the PhD, you don't know how the project will go or how long it will take, there's troubleshooting, personal issues with mentors and other lab personnel, etc.

What in particular makes you think this is a bad lab for you? Is there anything else that is making you hate the PhD right now?

Also, switching labs, even after a year, does happen and many who do so end up doing well. Consider talking to that other lab.

 

[nevergraduating]

Are you MSTP? If so, you are not obligated to payback. On the other hand, if you want to, you can express this desire (of course, don't sign anything) and you can do a payback if you wish.

Yes, I'm not obligated to pay back but still feel like that would make the situation easier. Of course, it's not like I actually have the money.

What in particular makes you think this is a bad lab for you? Is there anything else that is making you hate the PhD right now?

I don't want to go into the details here as this might allow people to identify me. I will send you a PM.

Also, switching labs, even after a year, does happen and many who do so end up doing well. Consider talking to that other lab.

How do people deal with this? I find having trouble in the lab so discouraging that I just want to drop out.

 

[Jorje286]

I think it should come down to your own interest and objectives. If you're still bent on doing research, then it's definitely worth trying other labs. Your experience in research in general as a grad student won't be much different than as a post-doc. Probably even harder if you get out of med school with no prior extensive research training. If you're very skeptical about a career in research, then the PhD is not worth the 4 years of your life.

About guilt, I agree with mercapto. It's probably hard to do that, but you should eliminate it from your decision process. You gave research a very serious try, and the administrators knew the contract they signed. It should all come down to what career path you want.

 

[qwopty99]

Hello

I started the grad school portion last Fall after doing fairly well during M1/M2. For a number of reasons, I decided that the lab I am currently working in is not for me. I have not been doing very well in my courses and at this point have not even started on a project. Everybody tells me to leave the lab I am currently in and I will probably do so very soon. The problem is that at this point I am no longer at all motivated to do the PhD. I have had such a horrible experience that I think I would rather drop out than risk having this happen again. There is one lab I think I could be happy in but I'm not even sure if they would take me. I really wanted to do the PhD at the beginning but had that beaten out of me. I think I would like to give a research career another shot but probably not until after medical school.

At this point, the only thing that keeps me from dropping out of the dual degree program and going back to med school is guilt. I feel guilty for taking the program's resources for two years and now quitting. They have been very supportive, but obviously don't want me to leave the program. At the same time, I'm told not to do a PhD I wouldn't enjoy. This is a serious dilemma for me. I'm also worried about the stigma an MD/PhD dropout might encounter. Does anybody know of any dropouts and how that affected their career? Should I give it another shot?

Really, if I could repay the program for the first two years so I wouldn't have to feel so guilty for dropping the PhD I would do so in a heartbeat.

Given that you're MSTP, it might make you feel even more compelled to try to stick with it, but the tone of your post is so pessimistic (really), that I think the best thing for you is to take a step back, get the MD done, then reconsider how you plan to incorporate research again into your future.

 

[Ariodant]

It depends on what kind of trouble you are having. Not knowing how other labs operate can make it difficult to distinguish PI-specific hurdles from universal obstacles in the research world that everyone has to face. You might want to carefully analyze your situation before finalizing such an important decision.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

It depends on what kind of trouble you are having. Not knowing how other labs operate can make it difficult to distinguish PI-specific hurdles from universal obstacles in the research world that everyone has to face. You might want to carefully analyze your situation before finalizing such an important decision.

At any rate, he isn't dealing well with the obstacles in the present lab, if we can indeed call them that. He can't know whether they are unique to the PI until he switches to a lab where they do not appear. I cannot possibly see the benefit of persisting with something that's going no-where. Better make a switch, see if there's improvement, and then go from there.

 

[xanthines]

It sounds like you feel pretty guilty about dropping out and was actually interested in research at one time. Since you've invested a lot of time and energy already, I wouldn't make any rash decisions. I'd also seriously think about at least trying a different lab. At least then you wouldn't regret leaving the program. Well, maybe not as much otherwise... Anyway, if you tried 2 labs and they didn't stick, then hop back into med school and don't look back. It's not your fault.

I don't know how wise this would be, so maybe others can chime in. Maybe you could complete the 3rd year med school curriculum and go back the lab after that. I feel like there's no better motivation for lab work than being on q3 call for surgery!

Good luck, OP. I wish you the best!

-X

 

[nevergraduating]

Thanks for all your input!

I am trying to get into a new lab but what adds to my dilemma is that I have to decide by mid-May if I want to rejoin the medical class. This does not give me very much time to make sure that I like the new lab and I cannot imagine how horrible it would be to be stuck in a bad lab for another year! I'm waiting for a reply from a prof now, will let you all know how that works out.

 

[john316]

Hi,

I'm not a medical student but a graduate student. In my first year, I had a lot of problems with my PI. I switched labs after one year and I'm currently pursuing research in a new laboratory (and very happy doing it). I think it's wise for you to pursue your interests in a new laboratory. You'd be surprised how the change of location and supervisor can do for your motivation. Best of luck.

P.S. Pick a good supervisor this time!

 

[drcushing]

you should definitely not feel guilty about it. PhD is a big investment of your life! You should only do it if you love what you do and things are going well in the lab.
I agree with other posts that your options are to try out in another lab and see what happens.
If not, just leave and go back to M3 year.
you can always comeback to research during your residency or fellowship years.
PhD programs typically have a high drop out rate regardless of MSTP programs or not.
so it's really not something unique to MD/PhD students. I think people in your program will understand and support your decision if it's not a hasty one.