MD/PhD Help With School List Lower MCAT score

[#1strokesfan]

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Hello everyone, please critique my school list. I am a TX resident, ORM, biochemistry major, and I am taking no gap years.

Stats

• sGPA: 3.8
• MCAT: 513, only take (was averaging 514 in practice FLs)

Hours

• Clinical
  • Mobile clinic volunteer: 76 hours
  • Patient interaction hospital volunteering: 156 hours
  • Shadowing: 24 hours
  • Total: 252
• Research
  • Computational neuroscience lab ~ 1500 hrs, 1 abstract by the time I submit apps, hopefully 1st author manuscript submission mid application season
  • Cancer lab for understanding mechanisms of transdifferentiation and finding therapeutic targets for NEPC - starting next month
• Non clinical
  • Public health organization targeting smoking in underserved communities in my city - 120 hours
  • Powerlifting judge and organizer for local high schools - 100 hours
  • Intro Bio I & II TA - 320 hours
  • Total: 520 hours

LORS - Compiled into a committee letter - I am confident that all of my LORs will be stellar

• PI - has known me since my freshman year
• MD - also has known me since my freshman year
• 2 Science professors - both have known me for at least 1 year

Personal Statement

• I didn't have something traumatic happen to me that drew me to medicine. I wrote about my journey into medicine, how important the human condition is to me (i like volunteering in the community), and how medicine and science are intertwined.

School List ordered in priority (so far) - I have found at least 4 PIs I am interested in

1. UT Southwestern (where my current lab is located)
2. Baylor
3. UT Houston-McGovern
4. UC Irvine
5. Penn State
6. UNC
7. Georgetown

Schools I have on my list but haven't ranked yet

• Albert Einstein
• Case Western
• SUNY Upstate
• SUNY Stonybrook
• UCLA
• UCSF
• Cincinnati
• Colorado
• University of Florida
• UMass
• University of Illinois
• Miami Miller
• UTMB - Sealy
• Virginia Commonwealth
• UPitt
• Texas A&

How are you guys making your school lists?

**To my knowledge, the only school on this list that isn't fully funded is Georgetown. I am willing to bite the bullet because the research is insanely interesting.

 

[dimplesage]

I wanted to go to a fully funded MD/PhD, so I started with a list of the MSTPs and then narrowed it down based on location and research. I have similar metrics to you and ended up applying broadly to schools where I was and was not in their average MCAT/GPA (but was in their MCAT/GPA range). Had a fairly successful cycle this year.

Not sure what research you are interested in, but maybe consider Ohio State, University of Minneosota, Tri-I, UVA, or University of Maryland.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Personal Statement

• I didn't have something traumatic happen to me that drew me to medicine. I wrote about my journey into medicine, how important the human condition is to me (i like volunteering in the community), and how medicine and science are intertwined.

What is your "Why MD/PhD?"

 

[#1strokesfan]

What is your "Why MD/PhD?"

My "Why MD/PhD" is centered around bridging the gap between benchwork and clinical practice.
I wrote it based on 3 experiences:
1) An unpublished case report I worked on in high school about a novel treatment and how utilizing a certain theory can significantly reduce chronic pain.
2) How I was inspired by a rant one of my professors had, where she talked about the disconnect between scientists and clinicians at research symposiums.
3) Implications of my own research.

 

[ophthoaspirant]

Hello everyone, please critique my school list. I am a TX resident, ORM, biochemistry major, and I am taking no gap years.

Stats

• sGPA: 3.8
• MCAT: 513, only take (was averaging 514 in practice FLs)

Hours

• Clinical
  • Mobile clinic volunteer: 76 hours
  • Patient interaction hospital volunteering: 156 hours
  • Shadowing: 24 hours
  • Total: 252
• Research
  • Computational neuroscience lab ~ 1500 hrs, 1 abstract by the time I submit apps, hopefully 1st author manuscript submission mid application season
  • Cancer lab for understanding mechanisms of transdifferentiation and finding therapeutic targets for NEPC - starting next month
• Non clinical
  • Public health organization targeting smoking in underserved communities in my city - 120 hours
  • Powerlifting judge and organizer for local high schools - 100 hours
  • Intro Bio I & II TA - 320 hours
  • Total: 520 hours

LORS - Compiled into a committee letter - I am confident that all of my LORs will be stellar

• PI - has known me since my freshman year
• MD - also has known me since my freshman year
• 2 Science professors - both have known me for at least 1 year

Personal Statement

• I didn't have something traumatic happen to me that drew me to medicine. I wrote about my journey into medicine, how important the human condition is to me (i like volunteering in the community), and how medicine and science are intertwined.

School List ordered in priority (so far) - I have found at least 4 PIs I am interested in

1. UT Southwestern (where my current lab is located)
2. Baylor
3. UT Houston-McGovern
4. UC Irvine
5. Penn State
6. UNC
7. Georgetown

Schools I have on my list but haven't ranked yet

• Albert Einstein
• Case Western
• SUNY Upstate
• SUNY Stonybrook
• UCLA
• UCSF
• Cincinnati
• Colorado
• University of Florida
• UMass
• University of Illinois
• Miami Miller
• UTMB - Sealy
• Virginia Commonwealth
• UPitt
• Texas A&

How are you guys making your school lists?

**To my knowledge, the only school on this list that isn't fully funded is Georgetown. I am willing to bite the bullet because the research is insanely interesting.

Not to sound discouraging but I don’t think your chances are that high without a gap year, with your stats. There are definitely exceptions but if someone got into an MSTP with your stats, they must have had at least 1 gap year or must be URM/disadvantaged.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My "Why MD/PhD" is centered around bridging the gap between benchwork and clinical practice.
I wrote it based on 3 experiences:
1) An unpublished case report I worked on in high school about a novel treatment and how utilizing a certain theory can significantly reduce chronic pain.
2) How I was inspired by a rant one of my professors had, where she talked about the disconnect between scientists and clinicians at research symposiums.
3) Implications of my own research.

And where are the patients? Esp considering your research background in comp neurosci.

 

[#1strokesfan]

And where are the patients? Esp considering your research background in comp neurosci.

I worked on the case report with a physician I shadowed. This physician was a pain management physician, and a lot of his patients had chronic, debilitating pain that wouldn't subside even with surgery. I was going to include this.

Should I tie patients to my research instead? It would be fairly easy since the raw data I work with comes from patients' EEG recordings.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I worked on the case report with a physician I shadowed. This physician was a pain management physician, and a lot of his patients had chronic, debilitating pain that wouldn't subside even with surgery. I was going to include this.

Should I tie patients to my research instead? It would be fairly easy since the raw data I work with comes from patients' EEG recordings.

The core of medicine is the doctor-patient relationship (with or without the PhD). At some point, you have to address it. I don't know how you did it in your past application as I'm just going off what you shared in this thread.

 

[trilobites10294814]

Consider strong mid-tier programs like: Iowa, Nebraska, Rochester, MUSC. Emory as a reach school, their MCAT average for MSTP is around 515. Medical College of Wisconsin, UT San Antonio, UVA, UAB

 

[#1strokesfan]

The core of medicine is the doctor-patient relationship (with or without the PhD). At some point, you have to address it. I don't know how you did it in your past application as I'm just going off what you shared in this thread.

Is this not the purpose of the personal statement? I thought PS was meant to address why MD (pt interaction, etc), and the “why mdphd” was meant to address the dual degree.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Is this not the purpose of the personal statement? I thought PS was meant to address why MD (pt interaction, etc), and the “why mdphd” was meant to address the dual degree.

Yes it can be interpreted that way. But what you describe as MD/PhD above (the three reasons) still needs to address patients better (IMO). You write it like you are a mediator between researchers and clinicians (point 2). If the implications of your research tie into patients, okay but it wasn't obvious from the original post. Basically did you address patients in MD/PhD? If not, why not just PhD?

 

[#1strokesfan]

Yes it can be interpreted that way. But what you describe as MD/PhD above (the three reasons) still needs to address patients better (IMO). You write it like you are a mediator between researchers and clinicians (point 2). If the implications of your research tie into patients, okay but it wasn't obvious from the original post. Basically did you address patients in MD/PhD? If not, why not just PhD?

Yes, I addressed patients in my "why MD/PhD". Thank you for the advice!

 

[motheshow1212]

Lol

Not to sound discouraging but I don’t think your chances are that high without a gap year, with your stats. There are definitely exceptions but if someone got into an MSTP with your stats, they must have had at least 1 gap year or must be URM/disadvantaged.

Lol when did 513 become low? I know the average is higher but 513 isn't considered low especially if the research is solid. Midtier programs, focus central US away from the coasts.

 

[ophthoaspirant]

Lol

Lol when did 513 become low? I know the average is higher but 513 isn't considered low especially if the research is solid. Midtier programs, focus central US away from the coasts.

The average MCAT score of MD/PhD matriculants is over 516 and average GPA is around 3.85. If you only look at MSTP matriculants, these averages are likely to be higher. You have to consider these facts and the track you are applying for, in judging what score is low or high.

Most ORMs I know, who got into an MSTP program with a sub-515 MCAT score and sub-3.85 GPA, had 3000+ research hours and at least 2 accepted publications or 1 first author publication in a high IF journal, at the time of applying. Please compare that with OP’s credentials. How are they going to achieve those credentials without at least 1 gap year? If any ORM with OP’s current credentials wants to take a shot this cycle knowing fully well that the odds of needing a re-application are relatively high, I don’t see a problem with that. The odds of needing a re-application are not 100% because there are always exceptions and we don’t know what compensating factors positively impacted their outcomes.

However, wouldn’t you rather focus on your research and/or improving your MCAT score by taking a gap year?

 

[Buhgsy]

The average MCAT score of MD/PhD matriculants is over 516 and average GPA is around 3.85. If you only look at MSTP matriculants, these averages are likely to be higher. You have to consider these facts and the track you are applying for, in judging what score is low or high.

Most ORMs I know, who got into an MSTP program with a sub-515 MCAT score and sub-3.85 GPA, had 3000+ research hours and at least 2 accepted publications or 1 first author publication in a high IF journal, at the time of applying. Please compare that with OP’s credentials. How are they going to achieve those credentials without at least 1 gap year? If any ORM with OP’s current credentials wants to take a shot this cycle knowing fully well that the odds of needing a re-application are relatively high, I don’t see a problem with that. The odds of needing a re-application are not 100% because there are always exceptions and we don’t know what compensating factors positively impacted their outcomes.

However, wouldn’t you rather focus on your research and/or improving your MCAT score by taking a gap year?

I think you bring up valid points about the typical competitiveness of MD/PhD admissions, and I agree that applicants should realistically evaluate their credentials. I will say however, I'd be cautious in framing this entirely around the ORM perspective. While it's understandable to note that different applicants might face different expectations, emphasizing ORM status to me unintentionally implies skepticism about the credentials of applicants who are URM, even if that wasn't your intention.

One thing to note -I saw a recent JCI Insight paper that I think is in preview with data implying that traditional metrics like MCAT scores and GPA aren't strong predictors of long-term MD/PhD success. While admissions criteria won’t shift overnight, I think the more and more findings like this come out, programs that are serious about training future physician scientists will place an even greater emphasis on holistic evaluations over raw numbers.

For what it’s worth, I applied this cycle with below-average stats and still received 7 interviews and multiple acceptances. Just another example that outcomes aren’t always defined by numbers.

 

[ophthoaspirant]

I think you bring up valid points about the typical competitiveness of MD/PhD admissions, and I agree that applicants should realistically evaluate their credentials. I will say however, I'd be cautious in framing this entirely around the ORM perspective. While it's understandable to note that different applicants might face different expectations, emphasizing ORM status to me unintentionally implies skepticism about the credentials of applicants who are URM, even if that wasn't your intention.

One thing to note -I saw a recent JCI Insight paper that I think is in preview with data implying that traditional metrics like MCAT scores and GPA aren't strong predictors of long-term MD/PhD success. While admissions criteria won’t shift overnight, I think the more and more findings like this come out, programs that are serious about training future physician scientists will place an even greater emphasis on holistic evaluations over raw numbers.

For what it’s worth, I applied this cycle with below-average stats and still received 7 interviews and multiple acceptances. Just another example that outcomes aren’t always defined by numbers.

The only reason I mentioned ORM is because OP mentioned that he is an ORM. I am not framing any narrative on only ORM vs URM. Irrespective of ORM or URM, everyone needs strong research productivity, clinical and non-clinical volunteering etc.

Many matriculants with very high stats have poor inter-personal skills. Unless they go into anesthesiology, radiology or neurosurgery, this drawback is going to adversely impact their patients. So, stats are not everything.

 

[motheshow1212]

I cannot remember what the mcat average was when I was applying in 2017-2018 cycle, but I do remember many people I interviewed with at various institutions such as Case, UTSW, UVA and Minnesota and the most common MCAT scores I heard were between 512-517, and of course there were always those random people we awwed at for having 522-526 scores. I will acknowledge 1 of the people with a 512 had a middle author Nature Paper.

I think what I am saying is OP just needs to apply broadly, but it is not impossible, If I were them I would focus more on central US programs.

 

[ophthoaspirant]

I cannot remember what the mcat average was when I was applying in 2017-2018 cycle, but I do remember many people I interviewed with at various institutions such as Case, UTSW, UVA and Minnesota and the most common MCAT scores I heard were between 512-517, and of course there were always those random people we awwed at for having 522-526 scores. I will acknowledge 1 of the people with a 512 had a middle author Nature Paper.

I think what I am saying is OP just needs to apply broadly, but it is not impossible, If I were them I would focus more on central US programs.

MSTP programs get more competitive each passing year. Applicants should be careful about judging their chances using data that is more than 2 years old.

Another important caveat is that only 25-30% of interviewees are offered an acceptance. The average MSTP program with 10-12 slots will make around 25 offers but they will interview close to 100. As a regular ORM with a 512-516 MCAT score, unless you have something else that is really unique and impressive on your resume or really stand out in the interview, you will be one of the 75 interviewees that won’t receive an offer.