MD/PhD in Biomedical Engineering

[SirTony76]

Hey Everybody, I want to get my PhD in Biomedical Engineering. I have been looking into places to see who offers a program in this. Does anybody know of any else?

Here is what I have found so far:

Duke
Johns Hopkins
Washington University
University of Iowa
Tufts
University of Michigan
Northwestern

Medical College of Wisconsin (Possibly work something out with Marquette)

Also, I am going to be a 2nd semester sophomore. I have taken English 1/2, Physics with Calc 1/2, General Chemistry 1/2, Biology 1/2, Organic Chemistry 1 (2 next semester) and was wondering about what people thought about taking the MCAT this coming August?

I know a few guys (one being an admissions board member) at MCW and they told me they thought I should wait until April of my junior year.

Also, what score (roughly) do I need to get into a MD/PhD in Biomedical Engineering program? I don't care where I get my degree's as long as the University is accredited.

TP

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[JETER]

When I applied, I was truly only interested in doing the PhD in engineering. Here is what I found out during the interviews (last year):

There is a big difference in a program "offering" BME as an option, and one being positive about having their students do engineering (best personal example: UAB)

When you get around to applying, email or otherwise communicate with PIs you would like to visit with. Most schools when they extend an interview will ask you with whom you would like to see, and you are more likely to actually interview with the engineering folk if you have already talked to them.

In terms of other schools, I would definately look at U-Illinois Urbana, however they are not MSTP. Same with PennState (doing the PhD at the main campus; a huge engineering school). Pretty much any large school public school is going to have a good to excellent engineering dept. If you are looking into big-name PI's for an MSTP, look into Emroy/Georgia-Tech, Pitt/CM, and Harvard/MIT collaborations. Also, check out Case. They have (to my knowledge) the only "Engineering-Physician Training Program", slightly separate but similarly funded, etc., to their MSTP. Although I didn't interview their, I've heard that Vandy and U. Wash have strong BME programs, also.

For your MCAT, I would recommend taking as a junior (April). I think most advisors would agree, for a good reason. Load you schedule up with as much bio/biochem as you can, but leave plenty of room for lots of research. No research = no MSTP. The GPA/MCAT scores that are usually thrown around this forum are 3.8; 34 or something like that. Anything close, and you are in good shape.

 

[CaipirinhaQuinho]

I'll finish with a BS and MS in BME as a ugrad (JHU) and I was thinking about sticking with it through the PhD. As I've been interviewing this season, I'm getting the impression that the MD/PhD in BME is not such a hot idea. Most top BME programs (like the ones you've mentioned) generally have tough course requirements, mandatory TA positions, and (in general) longer PhD times which you will find out are very nasty things to deal with in a long MSTP. I was very happy with my BME training as a ugrad and would never discourage someone from going into the field. My advice is to do plenty of research on specific programs and their feelings/trends toward/with engineering PhDs.

I've come to find that you can work for an engineering lab while getting your PhD in something else. That may save some time with requirements while still giving you exactly the same training.

I agree with the previous post about finding a department that is very engineering-friendly since cross-talk between engineering depts and md/phd programs is generally limited especially if they are on separate campuses. Along with that, I would also recommend that you apply to non-engineering programs so you can better compare and contrast when choosing schools.

I'm sure there are going to be a few other posts to your comment cause there are 4-5 other engineers who regularly check the forum. good luck. PM me if you have questions.

one more thing...if you're a non-engineer you will have to brush up on your gen physics, circuits, diffeq, lin alg, etc. if you want to do well in engineering PhD. But on the brighter side, engineering teaches you to stop memorizing useless knowledge and start using your real processing power and figure things out.

 

[karbouzie]

was wondering about what people thought about taking the MCAT this coming August?

I know a few guys (one being an admissions board member) at MCW and they told me they thought I should wait until April of my junior year.
TP

what if ur not satisfied with ur April 2007 scores? will u have the time to retake it Aug 2007? if not cuz ur applying early program or whatever reason, then I recommen to take the MCAT if not this April then Aug 2006 just to be on the safe ground. u def need to concentrate on ur research and do well this spring so dont want MCAT to interfere, but I honestly think its a good idea to take this Aug cuz info is still fresh, specially Org Chem

 

[SirTony76]

Well I am in engineering right now (Marquette Biomedical Engineering), so I don't think i'll have a problem handling graduate engineering coursework.

Thanks for bringing up the point about finding an engineering friendly program!

How much research do I need? I did research last summer at MCW and got my name on an abstract, but it was like the 5th name. I am hoping to work in the same lab this next summer.

TP

 

[femily]

some of the schools i was thinking about with a phd in bme...

dartmouth
brown
university of alabama at birmingham
university of rochester
ut-memphis
case western reserve

i think most of your "big-name" schools that are research oriented will have a bme program. it's still a relatively "new" engineering field. you could also get in with a different field and make your research more engineering-esque, which is what i'm going to have to do since the med school i got into doesn't offer a phd in bme. i hope that helps!

 

[surge]

yale has one.

 

[dillanger]

I am applying to do MD/PhD in BME right now and am through almost all my interviews at this point, so maybe I can provide some insight.

Here's what I would say are some of the "top" BME MD/PhD programs in terms of both clinical medicine and biomedical research:

Harvard-MIT
Duke
UPenn
Johns Hopkins
WashU
Emory - Georgia Tech
UCSD

Other schools that are strong in one or the other but not quite in both:
Columbia - BME not as strong
Yale - BME not as strong
UVA
Brown (minimal MD/PhD funding)
Boston U (no MD/PhD funding)
Stanford - BME not as strong and relatively new



An interesting thing I would look at if I were you is how well integrated the MD/PhD program is with the BME graduate degree. Do you still have to do the same graduate course requirements? Is there flexibility in choosing a lab in other disciplines or associated faculty rather than actual department faculty? Do you still have to TA? What is the average time to do a PhD compared to the other traditional disciplines?

For example, at my Hopkins interview I was convinced that the PhD in BME is intense but still very flexible. You can do your PhD work in any lab you would like (ie for me neuroscience) without any difficulty. You get out of a few course requirements, but still have to TA.

At WashU, I could only do research in BME faculty labs even if I wanted to apply engineering more directly to medical disciplines. Also, there were 7 graduate courses to complete for the PhD (in addition to MD courses) whereas the neuroscience PhD program, for example, only required 1 additional graduate class.

 

[lundysd]

I would suggest checking the top programs in the US News BME Graduate category and cross-referencing those with the MSTP schools. Though these rankings aren't everything, they can give you a good place to start.

I will be starting at a MSTP program in the fall with an interest in BME, and below are the top programs I'm considering:

Baylor (PhD is at Rice)
Northwestern
UCSD
U of Washignton
Emory

Hope this helps

 

[microTAS]

there was a list from past years called "biomedical engineers unite" or something similar that had a long list of BME places. Look for strong medical schools and engineering schools that are located close to each other and a supportive mstp.

 

[earmuffs]

I know a number of people who did this at NU.

The MD/PhD director at NU is a phenomenal guy, who is very supportive of the students. (He also invites all the students up to his cottage in WI for beers, boat rides, waterskiing, beach volleyball, etc) Though there haven't traditionally been too many students in BME in the MSTP program at NU, the number has been growing in recent years. He does not at all steer students away from that route, and just encourages to find any advisor who we work well with. His only stipulation is that he would like it to be basic science oriented (& not clinical research).

Check out the NU BME website for a list of faculty. I know students who have worked in MRI (don't remember which faculty member), ligament/cartilage/vascular tissue engineering (Ameer - young fun guy who trained under Langer at MIT), nano-stuff (Messersmith), neural (Troy). No real bad seeds in the department (NU BME undergrads could probably offer some more insight into the profs). There are several more I can't remember.

PM me if you have any more questions.

Best of luck applying!
-Ralph Wiggum

 

[gbwillner]

Check out Rice/Baylor. Apparently it is one of the top programs, because half of our incoming class is BME.

 

[akinf]

This may be a stupid question, but do you actually need an undergraduate degree in some kind of engineering before you can proceed to biomedical engineering. My school (University of Manitoba in Canada) does not offer such a degree (just Biosystems Engineering), but I'm curious about this BME. Any comments?

 

[SirTony76]

This may be a stupid question, but do you actually need an undergraduate degree in some kind of engineering before you can proceed to biomedical engineering. My school (University of Manitoba in Canada) does not offer such a degree (just Biosystems Engineering), but I'm curious about this BME. Any comments?

My Dad says he thinks you should (PhD in Biomedical Engineering, BS/MS in Mechanical), but you don't.

 

[gaganheim]

My Dad says he thinks you should (PhD in Biomedical Engineering, BS/MS in Mechanical), but you don't.

BME is really an umbrella title as far as research is concerned. If you want to do tissue engineering, it's probably less important to have an undergrad degree than if you want to do computational. Just read some papers from prospective mentors. If you can at least follow what they did and why, I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[kgboy]

BME is such a broad field, so it's hard to say which BME program is best for you. While one institution may be famous for biosensors, tissue engineering, another might be better for imaging, biomechanics, etc. Various areas of research in BME are very different from one another.

You probably should look into what specific research you are interested in and try to find a school that is good for your research. Going to a highly ranked BME program is useless if your school is not good for your specific research.

 

[noy]

You should consider 2 things:

One: What 'flavor' of BME do you like?
examples:
Neuro
Cardiac
EE based
Chem E based
strong materials program

Also, i would add Case Western to the list. They are a real underdog but have some interesting stuff going on. Caltech is great as well, but I would be wary of schools with a geographic split (eg Baylor).

[This is coming from a person w/ some unique engineering insights, you can PM me for more info]

 

[SirTony76]

You should consider 2 things:

One: What 'flavor' of BME do you like?
examples:
Neuro
Cardiac
EE based
Chem E based
strong materials program

Also, i would add Case Western to the list. They are a real underdog but have some interesting stuff going on. Caltech is great as well, but I would be wary of schools with a geographic split (eg Baylor).

[This is coming from a person w/ some unique engineering insights, you can PM me for more info]

I want either biomaterials or tissue engineering.

 

[lundysd]

I see no reason to be wary of split programs (Baylor/Rice, Emory/Ga Tech), especially it they're in close proximity. I've visited a bunch of programs, and honestly I think the fact that they're split by 20 minutes or less is a minor issue, especially when the reason they're split is because such a strong BME program is involved.

Scott

PS -- Tissue Engineering is my interest as well. Feel free to PM me with any questions

 

[roygbasch]

It looks like a lot of people are considering combined MD/PhD in biomedical engineering through MTSP or otherwise. Do any of you know of any MDs with engineering pre-med backgrounds who have entered PhD programs in biomedical engineering after medical school and clinical training? I am sure this doesn't happen that often, but I suspect it happens occasionally once the realities of clinical medicine set in. Of course, by that time it may be more difficult to live the life of a grad student (financially speaking). On the other hand, being able to moonlight a little might make it easier to survive financially.

Also, how does the career path differ for MD/PhDs in biomed versus straight PhDs? Is there much added value in the MD?