MD/PhD: PhD from Cambridge

[DeadCactus]

So it's my understanding that several people from this board have been successful in entering some form of MD/PhD program with Cambridge and that there are several people (like myself) interested in doing the same.

So what are the options for going about and doing this? It's my understanding that there is an MSTP program that involves getting the MD at US school and the PhD at Cambridge. Cambridge also seems to have it's own equivalent to an MD/PhD program. Any other options or a dual-degree program? Any more knowledgeable posters want to share some insight into:

how these programs work?
funding sources, if not included in the program?
differences in the application process?
any other advice?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[jsg1985]

I second that question.

I am also interested in the program for a while. My basic understanding is that you could do GPP (Graduate partnership program) at NIH which lets you do your thesis research at Oxford or Cambridge. Depending upon how receptive the school is you doing PhD at Cambridge, you can do follow this option. The funding for this option will come from NIH.

This is the only option I am aware of for MSTP. Any other ideas folks?

Thanks.

 

[OncDoc19]

I second that question.

I am also interested in the program for a while. My basic understanding is that you could do GPP (Graduate partnership program) at NIH which lets you do your thesis research at Oxford or Cambridge. Depending upon how receptive the school is you doing PhD at Cambridge, you can do follow this option. The funding for this option will come from NIH.

This is the only option I am aware of for MSTP. Any other ideas folks?

Thanks.

The NIH GPP is the only integrated program I am aware of. There are also scholarships for graduate work at Cambridge and Oxford: the Rhodes, Marshall and Gates-Cambridge scholarships. After that you could do your MD at a school in the US.

 

[medicalminute]

OncDoc. I read your Profile . Very impressive. I am sending you a p.m..

 

[u2psalm40]

just to throw this out there... if there is an equivalent MD from Cambridge, getting an MD abroad means you'll be an intl med grad. unless you're not interested in practicing in the US, i'd be wary of pursuing that option (automatically making the road hard for residency).

also these programs (even the GPP) are relatively new and US medical schools each have different stipulations for how they treat these students through their own respective admissions process. Yes the NIH would provide funding, but you still have to be accepted into a medical school. Questions you should ask of the med schools you're interested in: how does the admissions process work for GPP students? does the MSTP make its own admissions decision or the medical school adcom-- or both? This can save you time when it actually comes time to apply to med schools after the cambridge/oxford graduate degree.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Flinders and ANU are both currently accepting applications for their combined Med/PhD programs. 👍

 

[Neuronix]

If it's anything like the rest of the world, full funding (tuition break and stipend for MD and PhD years of sutdy) does not exist for the Australia programs. As such, I can never figure out how these programs are any different than just persuing the MD and PhD separately.

The Cambridge question has already been answered, it's the GPP for the few programs that allow it. It is likely one could work out their own MD/PhD program doing the MD at one school, taking a leave of absence for a PhD applied for somewhere else, and then returning, however you will probably have to pay for medical school yourself. Europe seems like a particularly good place to get a PhD because the time to PhD is set whereas in the states who the heck knows how long it will take.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

If it's anything like the rest of the world, full funding (tuition break and stipend for MD and PhD years of sutdy) does not exist for the Australia programs. As such, I can never figure out how these programs are any different than just persuing the MD and PhD separately.

I do know that they have good research funding for the PhD programs and the med tuition is usually subsidized in Australia. If you are applying as an international though you will still be required to pay tuition for the med degree.


If you apply for PR (permanent residency status.. ie Australian greencard) before enrolling in the med/PhD programs you will be eligible for HECS (ie. goverment subsidization for your med degree). I have met a couple of Americans who have done this and were able to basically complete these programs for free this way in Australia. So, it is possible. 👍


Here is a link to some research info for USyd just as an example:
http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/people/admin/research.php

http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/futurestudent/postgrad/contacts.php

http://researchfunding.duke.edu/detail.asp?OppID=3965

 

[bd4727]

I second that question.

I am also interested in the program for a while. My basic understanding is that you could do GPP (Graduate partnership program) at NIH which lets you do your thesis research at Oxford or Cambridge. Depending upon how receptive the school is you doing PhD at Cambridge, you can do follow this option. The funding for this option will come from NIH.

This is the only option I am aware of for MSTP. Any other ideas folks?

Thanks.

I posted the link to the offical website in the other thread about Ox/Cam, but your understanding is basically correct. You would need to be in an MSTP to get funding during medical school. Check out the website for the schools that have agreed to participate, because some MSTPs have flat out said they won't support it, other are ambiguous about it. From my experience, some said they would support it "in principle" but when I asked them about it, they said they would rather not take a student through it the year I was applying. If you really want to know the details, email one of the administrators listed on the website, or PM me.

 

[Plasmodel]

Hi,
Regarding the Gates Cambridge, my understanding is that you apply to Cambridge and then after you are accepted, you apply to the Gates.

1). Do you need any standardized exams for Cambridge and Gates?

2). For either MPhil or PhD doing biomedical research, are we expected to have contacted a PI and submit a research proposal for admission?

3). Applicants for Gates generally apply to what other programs?

I intend to do MD/PhD and am interested in either doing my PhD or maybe, even an MPhil at Cambridge (Churchill College).

Thanks,
Plasmodel

 

[HansSpemann]

Europe seems like a particularly good place to get a PhD because the time to PhD is set whereas in the states who the heck knows how long it will take.

The only problem is that all European universities require a masters for admission to their three year PhD programs. The only exception that I am aware of is that the Max PLanck institutes will wave the masters requirement if the applicant has completed the equivalent amount of coursework and research equal to a masters level student.

You don't, by any chance, happen to know anyone who has been able to enter a European PhD program without a masters? If you do, could you please share the institution and field they were accepted in; I would truly appreciate it

 

[Newquagmire]

1). Do you need any standardized exams for Cambridge and Gates?

2). For either MPhil or PhD doing biomedical research, are we expected to have contacted a PI and submit a research proposal for admission?

3). Applicants for Gates generally apply to what other programs?

I believe 1. MCAT and/or GRE, 2. not required but suggested, 3. all the usual suspects for study in England (e.g. Rhodes, Marshall, Churchill). Double-check the Gates website.

The only problem is that all European universities require a masters for admission to their three year PhD programs. The only exception that I am aware of is that the Max PLanck institutes will wave the masters requirement if the applicant has completed the equivalent amount of coursework and research equal to a masters level student.

Although it may have changed, it used to be that the PhD programs had masters as their first year's work, not unlike in the United States, and that masters students could continue on as PhD students. I would caution that most students without significant lab experience should not expect to graduate within three years, even in Europe.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

just to throw this out there... if there is an equivalent MD from Cambridge, getting an MD abroad means you'll be an intl med grad. unless you're not interested in practicing in the US, i'd be wary of pursuing that option (automatically making the road hard for residency).
.

I agree that on average its more difficult to come back to the US wth a non US degree. But come on.. 🙂 I don't think you'll run into too many difficulties with a Cambridge medical degree. I think most program directors would hold you in high regard. 👍

 

[dl2dp2]

The only problem is that all European universities require a masters for admission to their three year PhD programs. The only exception that I am aware of is that the Max PLanck institutes will wave the masters requirement if the applicant has completed the equivalent amount of coursework and research equal to a masters level student.

You don't, by any chance, happen to know anyone who has been able to enter a European PhD program without a masters? If you do, could you please share the institution and field they were accepted in; I would truly appreciate it

this is false information. Both Cambridge and Oxford PhD programs in biological sciences do not require a masters for admissions. They require a "2i honours" or equivalent, which translates to a standard undergrad degree from the US. Both of these programs are 3 years long.

 

[HansSpemann]

this is false information. Both Cambridge and Oxford PhD programs in biological sciences do not require a masters for admissions. They require a "2i honours" or equivalent, which translates to a standard undergrad degree from the US. Both of these programs are 3 years long.

The British system is different from the continental system: Britain, unlike the rest of Europe, does not require a masters for admission into PhD programs. While a bachelor’s degree will suffice for Oxford and Cambridge, it will not be enough for Heidelberg or the Sorbonne--yay Bologna Process

 

[britishmafia]

On this topic, does anyone know when the NIH GPP application opens up? I've been waiting anxiously since June...

Oh, and does anyone know the average stats of those in the GPP, especially for Ox-Cam?

 

[bd4727]

On this topic, does anyone know when the NIH GPP application opens up? I've been waiting anxiously since June...

Oh, and does anyone know the average stats of those in the GPP, especially for Ox-Cam?

I don't know if there is a set date, but I think it opens a little later than most MSTPs, and sometime in the fall. I recall interviews being after the new year.

They don't publish the stats (not that I know of anyway), but I think it is safe to say it is comparable to top 10 MSTPs. On top of that, I think it is cruicual to be able to explain how the specifics of this program are a good fit for your personality and future goals, since it is very unique program.

 

[bd4727]

Just to address a few of the other topics being discussed in this thread in relation to the NIH-Oxford/Cambridge program:

- Time to degree
This program is intended to be 4 years long. Many students (a little less than 1/3) have graduated in 3. Some students take 5 years, but this is pretty rare and very discouraged by the administration.

-Differences from US PhD's
There are no classes at all. From day 1 you work in a lab. If you want to take classes because you feel they would help you, then you have that option, but this is rarely done. Also, there is no publication requirement at Oxford and Cambridge like there are for many US PhD programs. So this can make a big difference if you are willing to sacrifice publications for time. In fact, you can get a DPhil (Oxford) or PhD (Cambridge) without publishing a single paper. Probably not a great idea, but an option.

-Admission requirements
No masters is necessary if doing your PhD via this program.

Please let me know if you all have any other questions about the NIH-Ox/Cam program specifically.

 

[britishmafia]

Do you know the number of students accepted versus those that apply?
I currently have an 11/11/11/R and a 3.97 cGPA (3.95 sGPA) and about 2.5 years of research experience. LORs should also be very strong. With this, I hope to apply to the NIH-Ox/Cam program, but I am worried that my stats may be a bit low for acceptance.

Honestly, I strongly believe in the globalization of research in our society, and such a program is perfect in allowing me to perform biomedical research abroad. It's sort of a dream of mine to do this even though I know my chances are slim.

Had to get that off of my chest. 😳

 

[bd4727]

Do you know the number of students accepted versus those that apply?
I currently have an 11/11/11/R and a 3.97 cGPA (3.95 sGPA) and about 2.5 years of research experience. LORs should also be very strong. With this, I hope to apply to the NIH-Ox/Cam program, but I am worried that my stats may be a bit low for acceptance.

Honestly, I strongly believe in the globalization of research in our society, and such a program is perfect in allowing me to perform biomedical research abroad. It's sort of a dream of mine to do this even though I know my chances are slim.

Had to get that off of my chest. 😳

Again, I don't know actually numbers, but my guess would be that the avg MCAT is about 2-3 points higher, but I don't think that will matter at all with a 33.

I would suggest really investigating this program first (PM me if you want). It takes a tremendous amount of self-motivation and attention to detail in terms of being on top of administrative stuff because they definitely do not hold your hand at all in this program. If you feel like you want to be part of a cohesive "program" this is probably not for you, it is very much an individualized setup that takes a lot of work by the student. That being said, it is absolutely amazing and everyone in it loves it.