MD/PhD vs MSTP: Jefferson VS Einstein

[SYBR GREEN GANG]

Hi everyone,

I want to start by saying I am feeling really blessed and privilaged to be accepted into MD/PhD programs, while also still under consideration in several other places. I thought it would be never too late to start thinking where to attend eventually. Now I am choosing between Sidney Kimmel (Thomas Jefferson) vs Albert Einstein. My biggest concern is choosing a non-MSTP program vs a MSTP program. However, I would love to hear others' opinions.

A little bit about me: CA resident, interested in cancer biology/immunolgy

Jefferson
Pros:
1. Fully funded (33k stipend a year I believe)
2. Downtown Philly is nice, close to all foodie spots
3. Good sports team (or maybe not so good 76ers)
4. Good research opportunities, and friendly PIs that fits my interest
5. Absolutely amazing student environment. I might be biased because jefferson was an in-person interview while Einstein was online. But all students seem extremely happy with where they are and the curriculum is very collaborative.
6. Pretty impressive matching list (UPenn etc)
7. Smaller cohort (pros or cons??)

Cons:
1. downtown philly isn't that cheap and 33k is bare minimum to survive without family help
2. Non-MSTP
3. R2 Research Institution? so I guess PhD wise less recognized as a research institution and definitely fewer labs I would want to rotate with. (However I only need one that I love)
4. Ranked lower on USNWR (which means nothing to many)

Einstein
Pros:
1. MSTP
2. 42 K stipend in Bronx sounds more than 33k in Philly
3. Bronx+New York
4. More research options to choose from, solid research in my field
5. administrations are very kind (same for Jefferson too)
6. very impressive matching list (especially for new york institutions like NYP/Cornell or Harvard etc)

Cons:
1. I will not prefer to live in Bronx...
2. Larger cohort size (still not sure if pro or con)
3. Students seem more gunner than Jefferson's
4. Faculty members seem less approachable (at least during online interviews)

I think that's everything I can think of right now. They share a lot of similarities, such as great community outreach programs, diverse patients populations, great administrations (from student feedback). And as a Californian while I would love to stay in Sunshine and warm, I am excited to explore the east coast a bit. Any thoughts would be very helpful!

PS: it sounds like Jefferson is a very established MD-PhD program. For these programs, does having the MSTP funding or not still really matter?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[pierty]

Congratulations on the options, especially this early. Would probably serve you better to ask in the Physician Scientist forum (or better yet, from mentors in real life rather than anonymous users).

MD/PhD programs are long and difficult, and happiness/resilience should be your #1 factor in selecting your home. Other factors to consider are the availability of multiple potential mentors you are interested in, support of the administration, the culture of the institution, and location/proximity to support systems. Everyone values these factors differently, but the one that is nearly universally important is the availability of mentors. Many factors can change as you rotate through labs, and you might find that a great lab on paper is a horrible match in person. It is important to have multiple mentors to choose from to buffer this.

MSTP designation is a summative assessment of "quality" - it means that the NIH has vigorously reviewed the administrative support as well as student outcomes of a program over several years to determine that it is a strong environment to train the next generation of physician scientists (and therefore, also send significant funding to). MSTPs have to submit information to renew their grant and status every 5 years, and programs can (and have) lost their status if they do not meet benchmarks. Critically - an MSTP designation assures that all students are fully funded with stipend throughout all years of their program, regardless of the school's budgetary concerns, and that students who exit the program will not pay back the tuition and stipend they were given as reprimand for leaving the program by an institution (while it isn't a great idea to leave the MSTP unless you are really sure it is not for you after starting, and most people don't, it is very important to have this backing in case anything unforeseen happens. Same goes for programs that may change their funding structure midway; while this rarely occurs, at MSTPs, you are protected).

Along these lines, Einstein is famous for its MSTP. It was one of the first 3 MSTPs (alongside NYU and Northwestern), and has a long-standing reputation. I think this too-often colors people's perception (as "prestige" or "reputation" seems to suggest quality, which is not always the case; take Harvard, which was on probation for its MSTP designation in the past), but as an MSTP it has a strong track record. Jefferson is less established in comparison. The stipend difference also seems to be significant for you. However, If you know you would be happier at Jefferson, I would disregard this (unless the finances really do not work).

You have time. I would visit both schools on revisit and meet with potential mentors if possible at both schools (it will also let you spend some time at both schools to decide whether it is a good fit).

 

[SYBR GREEN GANG]

Congratulations on the options, especially this early. Would probably serve you better to ask in the Physician Scientist forum (or better yet, from mentors in real life rather than anonymous users).

MD/PhD programs are long and difficult, and happiness/resilience should be your #1 factor in selecting your home. Other factors to consider are the availability of multiple potential mentors you are interested in, support of the administration, the culture of the institution, and location/proximity to support systems. Everyone values these factors differently, but the one that is nearly universally important is the availability of mentors. Many factors can change as you rotate through labs, and you might find that a great lab on paper is a horrible match in person. It is important to have multiple mentors to choose from to buffer this.

MSTP designation is a summative assessment of "quality" - it means that the NIH has vigorously reviewed the administrative support as well as student outcomes of a program over several years to determine that it is a strong environment to train the next generation of physician scientists (and therefore, also send significant funding to). MSTPs have to submit information to renew their grant and status every 5 years, and programs can (and have) lost their status if they do not meet benchmarks. Critically - an MSTP designation assures that all students are fully funded with stipend throughout all years of their program, regardless of the school's budgetary concerns, and that students who exit the program will not pay back the tuition and stipend they were given as reprimand for leaving the program by an institution (while it isn't a great idea to leave the MSTP unless you are really sure it is not for you after starting, and most people don't, it is very important to have this backing in case anything unforeseen happens. Same goes for programs that may change their funding structure midway; while this rarely occurs, at MSTPs, you are protected).

Along these lines, Einstein is famous for its MSTP. It was one of the first 3 MSTPs (alongside NYU and Northwestern), and has a long-standing reputation. I think this too-often colors people's perception (as "prestige" or "reputation" seems to suggest quality, which is not always the case; take Harvard, which was on probation for its MSTP designation in the past), but as an MSTP it has a strong track record. Jefferson is less established in comparison. The stipend difference also seems to be significant for you. However, If you know you would be happier at Jefferson, I would disregard this (unless the finances really do not work).

You have time. I would visit both schools on revisit and meet with potential mentors if possible at both schools (it will also let you spend some time at both schools to decide whether it is a good fit).

Thank you for this thoughtful answer! I totally agree--I will need to revisit both places and meet with more people to make a more educated decision. Right now I think Eistein may be a better fit due to its program's prestige and NIH designation, but I will learn more via 2nd look.
Will post updates in this thread!

 

[deleted1130038]

not sure at all for which school but love the username lol came here to say that

 

[SYBR GREEN GANG]

not sure at all for which school but love the username lol came here to say that

Alas, another comrade kneeling for the grace of qPCR