md-phd woes

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anxietypeaker

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hey everyone, had a few questions...

1) All the people i know (3) are ONLY applying MSTP. I heard that MSTP programs are more competitive than nonMSTP. How is the quality of nonMSTPs IN GENERAL? Are all MSTP programs really good in training?

2) If I don't take a year off:
i'll have 3 semesters + 1 summer of research @ time of application (5 semesters+1 summer @ matriculation).

If i take 1 year off:
ill have 5 semesters+1 summer of undergrad reserach+symposium presentation+molecular bio thesis @ time of application (+1 year NIH/faculty research @ matriculation).

The problem:
My GPA/MCAT are a little below average for md-phd programs (3.7, ~32). No publications/awards. I go to Cal. Would taking that year off really really really help? In other words, should i just apply (no time off) and go to any md-phd program i get into...or would my application improve enough that id prolly get into a better md-phd program to JUSTIFY the year off?

3) without the year off: should i apply non-mstp? With the year off: should i apply nonmstp?

4) how much more competitive you guys think id be for pure MD programs if i took the year off? is the year off justified by the increase in quality for my resume?

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First, sorry about going to Cal...but hey, nobody's perfect.
(kidding, Stanford grad, class of ????)

I think taking a year off is a good idea. I was in a similar situation to you, GPA slightly below what "most" MD-PhDs applicants had, along with MCAT that was OK but not stellar (3.76, 36). But taking the year off helped me put some research awards on my application, and also helped me get an additional very strong research rec. [I can't emphasize the importance of letters enough--I'm convinced that I would not have gotten accepted to the programs I did without my letters, which were very strong and from "big names."] Taking a year off will also give you an extra year of maturity, which will be immediately obvious to interviewers (sounds crazy, I know, but several interviewers commented to me on the difference between people who had taken a year off and people who were going straight through). Obviously I can't go back in time and run the "control," which would be to apply straight out of college, but I think that the year off helped me in terms of where I ended up getting in. Of course, it is a year of your life, but I don't think it can hurt and can only help.

If you do decide to take a year off, consider the pre-doctoral IRTA fellowship program at the NIH. A lot (actually, most) of the labs there are shockingly low-quality and low-intensity, but if you choose carefully you can get a good experience (and at least break even on the monetary side).
 
I think that MSTP vs. non-MSTP programs is not an issue. Either way, you graduate with a PhD - and no one in the future (residency, post-doc) will care. In general, MSTPs are more organized programs because they get government funding (are subject to review) and have to show track records of graduates to continue receiving the funds.

The quality of your PhD training is primarily dependent on your mentor/lab and your own motivation. You need to ask yourself why you want to do MSTP training. You mentioned applying as MD only. The only reason for applying for MSTP programs is if you want to learn how to be a basic scientist and have protected time to learn all of those skills. If you want to do it to make yourself more competitive for residency, DO NOT do it! You will be miserable and the minimal advantage will not be worth the blood, sweat, and tears of completing a PhD.

If you truly want to learn how to be a scientist in addition to a clinician, it is a very rewarding course.
 
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Taking a Year Off:

I was surprised at how many people were NOT taking a year off when I met a bunch of people at Cornell; I think that there are a disporportionate number of applicants who do take a year off and are vocal about the benefits of doing so on this board.

I am taking a year off. Although I really didn't have a choice in the matter, I think it's made me much better prepared and made the process much less stressful -- not having to juggle classes and such and working for a very understanding and helpful boss have really made life nicer.

From your stats, it sounds like you would have an okay chance if you didn't take a year off, but that your chances would improve if you took some extra time. In your position I would think about what other factors in your life would favor taking time off or jumping in sooner, whether it would break your bank/spirit if you weren't accepted the first time around and had to apply again, etc.




non-MSTP vs. MSTP:

non-MSTP programs in some sense are less competitive than MSTP programs because they aren't as highly ranked. Sometimes they may not offer the same financial support that MSTPs do as well, you might have to check. At a non-MSTP program I applied to, all my interviewers were very concerned that I might be overqualified for their program and just using them as a backup -- so sometimes they might not accept you even if they should be a "safety school." Also, once you get to interviewing for residencies etc., you WILL be asked why you went to a school of lower reputation as opposed to an MSTP program.

All MSTPs should be good in training, because they got reviewed by the NIH and granted money because they were found to be good in training. In general I'd say non-MSTPs are more all over the board, and you'd have to carefully investigate each one you're considering individually to make sure it's a good match for your research interests etc.

[edit] No matter when you're applying, I would apply to schools in both tiers, because the process is so much of a crapshoot and it's good to cover all your bases. However, I wouldn't waste my time applying anywhere I really really wouldn't want to go. [/edit]
 
so you said that i should apply broadly (MSTP/nonMSTP). How do i decide which nonMSTPs are good? What factors do i look for (ie us news rankings?)

Note: For nonMSTPs, i immediately filter out the following:
1) lack of funding
2) GREs required
 
so you said that i should apply broadly (MSTP/nonMSTP). How do i decide which nonMSTPs are good? What factors do i look for (ie us news rankings?)

Note: For nonMSTPs, i immediately filter out the following:
1) lack of funding
2) GREs required


professors that you're interested in working with. funding level for PIs there. graduation time. publication records of past students. residency match list. strong clinical departments to rotate in. extracurriculars and overall student interests (i.e. international service, primary care, surgery...)
 
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