MD residencies in those 5 states

[Kiki]

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Does anyone know whether it is possible to do an MD residency in those 5 states requiring an osteopathic internship for licensure as a D.O.? Can you obtain a license to practice as a resident without having done the osteopathic internship? Any input would be great. Thanks.

 

[Billie]

Originally posted by Kiki:
•Does anyone know whether it is possible to do an MD residency in those 5 states requiring an osteopathic internship for licensure as a D.O.? Can you obtain a license to practice as a resident without having done the osteopathic internship? Any input would be great. Thanks.•

Supposedly no, you cannot practice in those 5 states if you have not done the internship. But I have also read on this very board that rule can be "bent" and that it has happened. Though I personally do not know any doctors that are practicing like that. But I live (and hope to return to practice) in one of those states (WV) and am not betting my career on it and plan to do the internship. But then after the internship, you can do an MD residency if you want.

But maybe there are others that have more info...anyone?

Billie, MS-IV

 

[Mr. happy clown guy]

I heard reciprocity works.

 

[Firebird]

Originally posted by Billie:
•Supposedly no, you cannot practice in those 5 states if you have not done the internship. But I have also read on this very board that rule can be "bent" and that it has happened. Though I personally do not know any doctors that are practicing like that. But I live (and hope to return to practice) in one of those states (WV) and am not betting my career on it and plan to do the internship. But then after the internship, you can do an MD residency if you want.

But maybe there are others that have more info...anyone?

Billie, MS-IV•

I think there's a girl in my physics and o chem class that was from Logan. She had a Logan High school tennis team shirt on the other day.

 

[Billie]

Wow Firebird, you truly are meeting greatness in your class 😀

 

[Firebird]

Originally posted by Billie:
•Wow Firebird, you truly are meeting greatness in your class 😀•

hahahaha

 

[im4real]

Billie,

Are you at WVU or Marshall?

Christy

 

[Billie]

Originally posted by im4real:
•Billie,

Are you at WVU or Marshall?

Christy•

WVU was my undergrad school and I vowed I would NEVER go back. I interviewed at both Marshall and Lewisburg (the osteopathic school) and after the interviews it was an easy decision, I chose DO! (though WVSOM was always my first choice anyway)

 

[William Bohannon]

Billie, my wise and savvy collegue, has bought a touch of greatness to WVSOM as well.

As far as the state requirements for medical license, internship vs residency, internship counting as the first year of residency, ect..., who really knows the facts? In my humble opinion, the best source for that kind of information is your state's medical assoc. I plan to practice in Alabama. Currently, there are no AOA approved Fam Med residencies in the state of Alabama. I contacted my state's Osteopathic Medical Assoc. and got some very useful information. If anyone would know the in's and out's of getting a medical license, it would be the state's medical association or the state's medical license board. Give them a call. Just my two cents worth.

Will

 

[doughboy]

For a fact, you can do an MD residency in those 5 states without doing an AOA internship. However, you cannot practice there upon completion of your residency. So I was wondering if that makes you less attractive to those programs or do they not care?

 

[Marc Squillante]

Just to disagree with the last post- it was my understanding that to do an MD residency in one of those 5 states, you had to do a DO internship first (or have your MD internship AOA approved). One of my recent EM residency grads had rotated at a Michigan program as an M4, but couldn't apply there for residency because he wasn't going to do a DO internship.

Yes, the rules can frequently get bent to get internships approved. Maybe some day the AOA will wake up and get their heads out from you know where.

Marc Squillante, DO
EM Residency Director
OSF St. Francis Medical Center, Peoria, IL

 

[Kiki]

I took the advice to call the state osteopathic associations. Specifically, I called those in Michigan, PA, and FLA. Neither of these organizations' reps had a clue about the answer to my question; however, they did refer me to the respective state licensing boards. As stated by someone else above, it is okay to do an MD residency--at least in PA and FLA--without having first done an osteopathic internship; however, one may not be licensed to practice afterwards, unless the first year of their ACGME program is somehow approved later by the AOA (not bloody likely). I spoke to 3 different people representing Michigan's licensing board: none of them had a clue; however, I did call Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, and although they currently have DO residents in their ACGME programs, they are required to have done an AOA internship first. I don't know whether or not this applies to other programs in MI (i.e. - U. Mich, Wayne State, etc.). I wasn't interested in any programs in the other states; however, the MI people assure me that, regardless of what other states may or may not be doing, each state has its own policy, so you'll need to contact their licensing orgs directly. Hope this helps somewhat. By the way, don't bother calling the AOA directly. It's futile and frustrating. Thanks to those of you providing helpful input.

 

[doughboy]

Just another note, like I said before, you are allowed to do an MD residency in those states without doing an internship. But certain residencies will require you to do an internship first. Listen up Marc whatever. So that means technically you can do one but each residency program can make their own rules regarding that. I called a bunch of hospitals in MI and they said the same thing. For a fact, a lot of MD programs will only take DO's if they've done the internship. Why? because why not? They can get residents who have already done a year of internship and that makes them smarter and better able to handle the load over first year residents coming straight out of med school. Is that fair? No, it sucks but thats the crap we have to deal with for being DO's. So, if you guys were like me, and got excited because certain MD residencies took DO's, be wary because most of them took DO's after their internship instead of out of med school. Even outside those 5 states.

 

[Freeeedom!]

Listen, the AOA is more concerned with goofy OMT research and getting recognized by women who read "O!" and "Ladies Home Journal" than they are concerned with the quality training of their graduates! Those outdated laws are the hadcuffs that prevent MORE DO's from being recognized in higher profile residencies!!! That is how blind the AOA is...crippling the graduates from their own schools. It is embarassing.

The American Osteopathic Association needs to redirect their priorities, and stop the needless baracades that stand in the way of furthering Osteopathic Medicine.

 

[Sports Med]

Doughboy - What's with the hostility towards the program director? It is not true that many programs will not take you because you have not completed your osteopathic internship year. The truth is that many allopathic residency directors don't even know that you need one. In fact, due to funding issues, it would be better if they took you straight out of medical school. I can't speak for all programs, but my guess is that > 95% of the allopathic residency directors could care less whether or not you did an osteopathic internship. This isn't meant to be a "you're wrong, I'm right thing", but just my experience after having been through the match and watching my friends and classmates match into an allopathic residencies. If you look at the match lists for many DO schools, you will see that many go directly into an allopathic residency and could care less about those five states. The fact is that there is a good chance you will get approval irregardless of whether or not you do an osteopathic internship. The point is that doing an osteopathic internship DOES not make you more attractive than a 4th year DO student. If anything, due to funding issues, you are less attractive.

 

[doughboy]

Hostility Sportmed? Sure, probably because there are people on this site that profess they know everything and are the first hand source of knowledge. Not just on this thread but on many others...so cut me some slack....anyways, who cares.

So you don't think applying after a year of internship makes you more competitive? You probably don't care as much about this internship as others like me because you don't come from one of the five states. If you're never going to practice there then I agree with the majority and yes, my friends all got allopathic residencies without doing an internship. But say you're trying to get into a specialty MD residency as a DO...I find it hard to believe the DO's in those programs got in straight from med school. I have personally phone called and talked to residency directors at several hospitals in MI and have even talked to the DO residents there and they have all told me that having the internship is advantageous. Tell me any reason why it wouldn't. Just because there are more DO's than intern spots? That's not a reason. How can doing an internship year hurt anyone? I guess if you want to do family or IM than it doesn't mean much but I'm talking specialty which are harder to infiltrate as a DO. I also don't agree with the fact that you think its so easy to get AOA approval when you're done. Its a pain in the ass, everyone knows it. So get off your high horse hotshot...be real. Just because someone has a title under his name doesn't mean you have to unconditionally believe everything he says....think for yourself.

 

[Leotigers]

If that were the case, why is it that Physicians who have already completed a residency are at a disadvantage compared to applicants who have not completed a residency? Why is it that foreign trained physicians who have already been in practice for several year in another country are less desirable than 4th year medical students? You would think that a physician would be much more desirable, but they are not. You are limited in the number of years that you receive funding in a chosen specialty. I'm not sure what specialties you are talking about, but many specialties require a prelim or transitional year and thus you could just do a DO internship and go directly into the allopathic residency (I'm sure you knew that already). Other specialties like Ortho, General Surg, etc., I'm not really sure that doing a DO transitional year would be that advantageous in such programs. How much will doing Peds, FP, IM, OB/GYN, etc. really help you in a specialty surgery residency. No one asked you to take what people said as fact, they were just offering you their opinions based on their experiences. You're right though, many people have no idea what it is like to be in Michigan. Perhaps, in Michigan it is perceived as advantageous because many allopathic residency directors there know that D.O.s have to do an osteopathic internship. Speaking for my experiences in CA, many of the residency directors know nothing about the required internship. If I were a program director (which I'm not) I would rather match a graduating medical student. Yes, initially, the one that completed a DO internship may have an edge, but it wouldn't last very long. The DO transitional years are just a glorified 4th year of medical school (that's what I've been told by those who have completed one). If anything, I think doing a prelim Surg or prelim medicine might help you more depending on what residency you are applying for. Unfortunately, there are no DO programs that are exclusively medicine or surgery. Marc did say that it was his understanding and not that this was fact. I've found his insight and opinions to be quite helpful and I think your response was rather rude (I'm sure you don't really care).

 

[doughboy]

You're right, case closed. In my limited years of discussing topics with people, I've found that no one really changes their mind and it is pointless to argue. Sorry if I've offended anyone and let's just go about our business.