MD residency; DO student -- help.

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treeknowledge

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I'm a DO student, and I'd like to get an MD residency. I know that being a DO student already puts me at a disadvantage. Realistically, what MD residencies (speciality, location, etc.) can I hope to match into? Moreover, how do I go about doing that?

Also, I have another small problem (haha). I've been to rehab twice and have two misdemeanors (possession of marijuana/controlled substance). That however, was in 2003/05. This proved to be a monstrous burden when getting into, or even acquiring an interview at any medical school, be it DO or MD. My grades and MCAT scores were really good (3.8, 33Q), but, obviously, that mattered little to MD schools, and for good reason -- I'm seen as a liability. So, given that when I start applying for residencies, this little blip on my otherwise clean record will be 9+ years behind me, how much of a problem will my past be? Can I even hope to get an MD residency?

Thanks in advance for some sound advice. :)
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I don't recall residency doing a criminal record check during the application process, but they absolutely ask and check during state licensing and application for hospital privileges.

Get through med school, apply to the specialty that interests you, and deal with things one step at a time.

EDIT: Dude, you did jail time? That changes things.
 
No. I didn't do jail time. I was arrested twice -- booked, processed, released. Never any "jail time." My crimes weren't that bad, just possession of some pot and xanax (the controlled substance charge).

Still, no matter how you slice it, it looks bad. I'm only hoping that nearly a decade of a productive, drug-free life can change some minds. Unfortunately, I don't think the medical community is that forgiving. 5 years wasn't enough (that's how long this stuff was behind me when I applied to MD schools for the last time), but who knows, hopefully I apply to a residency program that has some residents, assistants, and a PD with an open mind.
 
You "just" bought street drugs and abused a prescription medication? You "only" got arrested twice? You've "only" been to rehab twice?

I have no idea if you'll get into an MD residency, but for the sake of my degree I hope you don't.

I'm not trying to make light of my mistakes -- they were huge, and I'm paying an enormous penalty for them. Also, this penalty is deserved. That being said, I think your description of me, i.e. "only" been to rehab twice and "only" got arrested twice, is unfair. You make me sound like a terrible person; I'm not. I made mistakes, I get that -- but I also made huge strides towards a productive life. That cannot be overlooked. And I'm neither an addict nor criminal. I'm a good person who wants to be a great doctor. I just need someone and/or some program to give me the chance to succeed.

Lastly, I understand your opinion. It's most likely the dominant one w/in the medical profession -- but I'll continue to prove individuals like yourself wrong my entire life. That's not an attack on you; it's just the truth. I have to do this. I've put myself in no other position.
 
In your situation I don't think the issue is the DO degree in general. I think the pressing issues in your case are:
1) How will going to Rocky Vista be perceived by program directors? (it is possible that RVU will have an issue with perception that other DO schools don't have because of the for-profit controversy)
2) Will residencies have an issue with your legal history? (I think this is more likely to be an issue than coming from a DO school)

At this point I don't think any of us really KNOW how many program directors will have a problem with RVU. At some programs coming from an "unknown" school could very well be an issue, and it's possible that some might have a negative impression of it for being for-profit on top of that, but others might care more about how you come across personally.

The drug problem could be an issue at some places. I interviewed at one program that had us sign agreements for a background check on interview day, although that was the exception. I did have to do a background check for the place I matched with before starting residency.
So, yeah, I do think you should prepare to disclose what happened and what you learned from it.

Personally, if I were you, I would try to keep an open mind about DO programs. When you already have some possible disadvantages in matching it makes no sense to further reduce your options. DO training does have its issues, but it will still get you to the point of being an attending in your chosen specialty and that's what matters the most. Once you graduate med school, DO vs. MD becomes less important.
If I were you, I'd try now to identify specialties you're interested in. The advantage of identifying a specialty now is that it gives you more time to make personal connections with mentors involved in the specialty and identify some DO programs you find acceptable where you can work your butt off doing an audition rotation.
I think that making these kind of personal connections will be essential for you. It's more likely that if you can find some allies in the specialty who know you personally and can see the quality of your work now that they will be able to look past these issues.
 
Personally, if I were you, I would try to keep an open mind about DO programs... If I were you, I'd try now to identify specialties you're interested in. The advantage of identifying a specialty now is that it gives you more time to make personal connections... I think that making these kind of personal connections will be essential for you.

Thanks. This is exactly the kind of advice I needed.

As regards my specialty, I've decided to pursue internal medicine. For me, this just makes sense. I don't think I'll be able to get into the very competitive specialties (for obvious reasons). I'm hoping that high board scores, high class rank -- and like you said, personal connections -- will help my candidacy.
 
so what you're saying is you want me to predict where and in what specialty you're going to match without knowing your grades, board scores, EC's, research, school, or how you interview? I predict peds in South Carolina
 
so what you're saying is you want me to predict where and in what specialty you're going to match without knowing your grades, board scores, EC's, research, school, or how you interview? I predict peds in South Carolina

No. Just advice on how to proceed given my rather unique situation.

School: RVU
Grades: top 10% (this is just an educated guess -- they don't tell us until end of first year I believe)
Boards: haven't taken yet, but I will do well... hopefully :)
Research: none
Interview: I interview well
Other degrees: MPH

Hope that helps :)
 
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treeknowledge said:
No. I didn't do jail time. I was arrested twice -- booked, processed, released. Never any "jail time." My crimes weren't that bad, just possession of some pot and xanax (the controlled substance charge).
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treeknowledge said:
Congratulations on turning your life around

thanks! it was a long time coming. 5 years of insanity --> jail/rehab. then somehow i got "it." now 6 years clean!! woohoo!!
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You said jail, I guess that didn't mean 'prison'. Sorry, not being a 'con', I don't differentiate. But then again, most PD's don't, either.

I'd look at doing rotations at DO residencies in states that have lax(er) criminal background check requirements for licensure.

Criminal possession of a controlled substance may kill it for you later in your career. Rocky Vista, whatever the best of intentions they had for you, may have given you false hope for a career in medicine.

If you are still in the first two years of med school, I would seriously ask yourself whether or not your prior conviction will ever allow you to practice medicine and whether you should quit now and cut short your losses. I would call various boards of medicne to see what their policy is for licensing someone convicted of possession of a controlled substance *before* entering med school.
 
You do a good job throwing in the obligatory "I've learned my lesson" phrases, but you're clearly looking for technicalities to get over to my side (ie - the MD world).

I did learn my lesson. It's not merely an obligatory statement. And I'm not looking for technicalities. I have no idea how you got that impression. I just really REALLY want to get an MD residency, and for obvious reasons -- they are better, e.g. I will get better training, have more professional options, etc.

You got arrested, but it's not like it was for something "bad" (you seem to have a different idea of what constitutes "bad" than I do). You were a drug abuser, but that was a long time ago. You weren't an addict, but you still went to rehab twice

We have different definitions of what "bad" is. The drugs I used (marijuana and prescription pills) were certainly "bad," but as bad as heroin, crack, or cocaine? I think not. And yes, I was a drug abuser, but I didn't relapse. The first time I went to rehab I had no intentions of changing my life; the second time I did. So I did not relapse because I never quit using to begin with.

(so you relapsed at least once; do you really know what addiction means?)

Of course I know what addiction means. I, however, do not believe in the idea that once a person becomes an "addict," they are powerless to their disease. That is just nonsense. I'm not powerless. I control what happens in my life, not some drug or drink.

But we have enough problems with drugs in our business, so why would we want a DO with a proven history of drug abuse, including prescription drugs that you can write for?

Very true. This is what I'm up against.

Why would we want someone who not only relapsed, but did so over a period of at least two years (2003 & 2005, based on your post)?


Again, I didn't relapse. I had no intentions of quitting the first time -- but I get your point: on paper, it looks like I relapsed, i.e. the two year interval (that was never really an interval in drug use at all -- I was using the whole time).

I don't think the question is, "How can I get into an allopathic residency?" I think the better question is, "What possible reason would an allopathic residency have to take me?"

That's a very good question. The reasons would be:
clean/sober for 9+ years (will be at that time)
very good board scores
top quartile of class
good interview (if I can even get one)
good grades in rotations

The problem is, most students who apply for allopathic residencies will have everything I have EXCEPT my history of drug use, rehab, etc. This is why I am hoping to do very well on my boards, make some connections along the way, and apply for one of the lesser competitive residencies, internal medicine.
 
Actually, you make yourself sound like a terrible person. The quote marks weren't there for dramatic effect; I was quoting you.

Oh, and I just wanted to correct you on something you said. I never said "only" got arrested twice or "only" went to rehab twice. You must have put that "only" in there yourself when you were reading my post. :)

Go back and reread if you like.

I think this "only" may have been what you were referring to:

I'm only hoping that nearly a decade of a productive, drug-free life can change some minds.
 
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To anyone who gave some thoughtful, helpful advice -- my sincere thanks. I did a little hunting, and many states will grant licensure to individuals with misdemeanors, but on a case-by-case basis. This can certainly be a good thing for me, especially given the length of time since my arrests/rehab.

I also talked to some doctors who said it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Basically, that I will have to explain myself, how I've changed, been rehabilitated, become responsible, etc. Further, I will be talking with an academic advisor at my school. I will post any useful information here, just in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation.
 
i don't know you and i don't have a stake in this, but i personally hope you are given a chance based on your current merits. people mess up, and while i don't think we should assume people will straighten up, i do think we should give second chances to those that do. all that being said, if i were interviewing you for a residency position, i would ask you to submit to random drug tests for the duration of your residency. one positive or one refusal to submit a specimen would be grounds for dismissal. i would make similar requirements if i were on a medical licensing board.
 
Your history will certainly be part of your application. ERAS now asks for both felony and misdemeanor convictions, so you'll need to disclose it.

You'll almost certainly be able to get licensed in many states. Cali and TX may be difficult, as they tend to be more strict about these things.

I certainly don't think it will be impossible to get an allo training spot. Because you have a red flag on your application, you'll want to make your app as good as it can possibly be in every other way. That means:

1. Doing as well in medical school as you can. Kinda obvious, but worth pointing out.
2. You should probably consider taking the USMLE if you think you can do well. Although some allo programs are happy with COMLEX scores, having USMLE's will open more doors.
3. You should consider trying to do an away rotation at an allopathic program, preferably a SubI, and do it early enough so it will be considered in the application process.

Exactly how much coming from RVU will affect you, no one knows. For those who are unaware, RVU is a new osteopathic school that is for profit -- the first for profit medical school in the US. The LCME specifically forbids this on the allopathic side.
 
Tired said:
You "just" bought street drugs and abused a prescription medication? You "only" got arrested twice? You've "only" been to rehab twice?

I have no idea if you'll get into an MD residency, but for the sake of my degree I hope you don't.
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That's harsh, dude. Doesn't it seem rather draconian discounting him based on past actions almost a decade old, after he has since changed his life? Everyone has their own demons, I actually find it reassuring when people are cognizant of their own problems, that way they can work on staying healthy, and their problems don't surface unknowingly/unexpectedly later on down the road.I feel like people should be given enough rope to hang themselves with.

OP, to echo the sentiment of one of the posts above mine, I also hope you make it.
 
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CaptainSSO said:
Everyone has their own demons, I actually find it reassuring when people are cognizant of their own problems, that way they can work on staying healthy, and their problems don't surface unknowingly/unexpectedly later on down the road.I feel like people should be given enough rope to hang themselves with.
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It's hard not to be cognizant of this problem... he was arrested twice and went to rehab twice. I mean really?
 
About the random drug tests, maybe I should just start taking these on my own free will, now. That way I can have a record of not using illicit drugs when I apply for the match. I think I'm gonna do that. I'm also definitely taking the USMLE; that's a no brainer.

Someone mentioned getting an "away" rotation at an allopathic residency. Any info on how to go about doing that? I'm def gonna ask someone at my school, but any advice would be appreciated.

And lastly, thanks for some positivity guys. I was beginning to think that everyone wanted me to fail, which, to be honest, kind of hurt. Especially since it was coming from doctors, who in my opinion, should be some of the most empathetic people around.
 
I think your med school dean of student affairs should be your ally in a lot of this. For example, doing the drug tests on your own would carry less weight to me than if you had a reputable outsider doing it. So go to your dean, who presumably knows your story well, and tell him you want to sign a contract submitting to random drug testing any time through medical school. Likewise, that same dean can hopefully help you arrange externships during the early part of MS4 at an allopathic med school.

I too am disappointed by the negativity. You f-ed up big time, and if you do it again you should realize you will likely never practice medicine. But 1 second chance is reasonable. If the same people giving you a hard time had a drug abusing patient, I would hope they'd be more positive with them. Again, never assume someone will turn their life around, but if they do, don't lord their past mistakes over them forever. That's something I learned from a rabbi, and comes from the Talmud I think.

Don't go at this alone. Utilize your office of student affairs. This kind of thing is part of what they are paid to do.
 
tkim said:
If you're the one scheduling your drug tests, how can they be random.
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Haha! Excellent point. But still, don't you think it would look good? Go in every month and get a drug test. I don't know, maybe it isn't a great idea. Any other thoughts?
 
mlw03 said:
So go to your dean, who presumably knows your story well, and tell him you want to sign a contract submitting to random drug testing any time through medical school.
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This is exactly what I'm doing. Thanks!
 
treeknowledge said:
And lastly, thanks for some positivity guys. I was beginning to think that everyone wanted me to fail, which, to be honest, kind of hurt. Especially since it was coming from doctors, who in my opinion, should be some of the most empathetic people around.
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I think one reason that some doctors may react so negatively when they hear about drug abuse is because in certain specialties, docs encounter a lot of drug seeking malingerers. That can quickly wear down your patience and sympathy. Some of the docs who are negative about your story may have had to deal with situations like a drug addict in the ER yelling at them to demand their preferred narcotic of choice, a drug addict stealing a prescription pad from their office, or forging a prescription in their name.

I am in psychiatry so I see a lot of people who are struggling with drug addiction. Some of them can be very manipulative and hard to deal with. Others come across as good people who made a terrible mistake. I think if you work hard to show that you've overcome this problem you do have a chance to change people's minds. Hope it works out for you!
 
I don't want it to seem like I'm piling on here because that's not my intention. But you've got 2 strikes against you before you even get started (the rehab/record thing and your school). Nobody really knows yet how PDs are going to view RVU grads (since there haven't been any yet) but I wouldn't expect a huge amount of respect up front.

So you need to do absolutely everything in your power to have an otherwise flawless application. You need to do whatever you can to convince people that your drug problems are well behind you (I like the school administered drug screen idea). You need a stellar transcript (like being in the top 5% of your class). You need to rock your COMLEX levels and the USMLEs (240+ on the USMLEs would be a good target). You need as many allopathic away rotations in 4th year as you can get (including a SubI in whatever specialty you go into) and you need stunning LORs.

Good luck.
 
There are doctors who unfortunately end up themselves addicted to alcohol and drugs, but if they are able to rehab are allowed to come back to practice. It sounds like your mistakes have really helped you grow and learn, and I hope in time people stop focusing only on your past.

With that being said, an MD residency might be unreasonable. However, to see where you were and to where you seem to be now, I think is a great accomplishment...and I hope you feel the same way with your residency placement - whether that's MD or DO. Good luck.
 
gutonc said:
But you've got 2 strikes against you before you even get started (the rehab/record thing and your school).

(I like the school administered drug screen idea). You need a stellar transcript (like being in the top 5% of your class). You need to rock your COMLEX levels and the USMLEs (240+ on the USMLEs would be a good target). You need as many allopathic away rotations in 4th year as you can get (including a SubI in whatever specialty you go into) and you need stunning LORs.
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I couldn't agree w/you more, and oddly enough, the goals you mentioned are pretty much the same as mine, i.e. 240+ on USMLE and top 10%.

And I just feel like throwing this out there -- my past, rehab, etc. have been incredibly powerful motivators. They have driven me to be a superb student, to be competitive, to be better than I otherwise would have been. So that is one good thing that has come out of this. The other is that I am WAY more compassionate than I used to be. I know -- firsthand -- that people mess up, and moreover, that they need others to support them, empathize with them, and encourage them to succeed. There is no way I would be this way were it not for my mistakes. So, in that sense, I'm glad things happened the way they did.

But let's be serious here -- for the love of god I wish I wasn't such a dumb ass as a kid! Haha!
 
treeknowledge said:
What's a SubI?
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sub-internship. fourth year med school rotation where you are treated as close to an intern as is legally allowable. i never had to do one, but they're supposed to be as demanding as med school gets. doing well is supposed to earn you good letters of recommendation from the attendings you worked with.
 
I normally agree with everything Tired has to say, but I m not with him on this one. No one here can pass judgement on another for their foolish past. A history of drug use does not make one unfit for the practice of medicine. I would venture a guess that 99% of all medical students/doctors has used a substance in their past in a manner that would get them in trouble with their board of medicine. How many people have had a few too many and drove home, smoked pot in high school, or taken a few too many prescribed pain pills? How many physicians have been addicted to a substance, gotten clean and gone on to practice just fine? These issues are for local medical boards to decide, and they can and do decide as they see fit.

OP, no one here will be able to answer your question. The token response to all the "can I get in" questions is always "rock the boards, get good letters, and to do away rotations." Everyone knows this, and you wont find anymore info here.

I will offer three things,

1. "Rocking" the boards is a little harder than most 1st years think. Its a common thing for all med students to think that if they just study real hard that 240+ is within their reach. I simply do not believe this. Call it "test taking skill" overall "IQ" or just plain luck, but only a small percent of test takers who take the USMLE will make better than a 240. The exact same can be said of the COMLEX.

2. You are a fool if you do not consider the AOA programs along with the ACGME. If you want to be an emergency physician, do whatever you can to secure a spot. In the next few years the number of medical students trying to get PGY1 spots is going to explode. Most of these will be DOs. Right or wrong, DO schools have expanded without making near enough residency spots. EM is a competitive field and I can't foresee it getting less competitive without a rather massive change in healthcare.

3. Taking a random drug test proves nothing. Save these kinds of theatrics for later. I would encourage you to speak to your attorney and your dean about these issues to see what your options are. Also, some state medical boards will talk to you about this if you want.

But the most important thing you can do is to keep your damn nose clean. If you fail at this, nothing else will matter.
 
danzman said:
I will offer three things,

1. "Rocking" the boards is a little harder than most 1st years think.
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In all honesty, I think I got this. I rocked the MCAT; I can rock the USMLE. Call it IQ, whatever -- I kick ass at standardized tests.

danzman said:
2. You are a fool if you do not consider the AOA programs along with the ACGME.
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I couldn't agree w/you more. I'm definitely considering AOA programs. I would just rather get an ACGME residency.

danzman said:
3. Taking a random drug test proves nothing. Save these kinds of theatrics for later. I would encourage you to speak to your attorney and your dean about these issues to see what your options are. Also, some state medical boards will talk to you about this if you want.
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Thanks for the advice. I'll ask my dean (who coincidentally is a JD as well as a DO) about what he thinks.

danzman said:
But the most important thing you can do is to keep your damn nose clean. If you fail at this, nothing else will matter.
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Exactly. And trust me -- obviously easier said than done because you don't know me in any way whatsoever -- these mistakes will NEVER happen again (despite what Tired may think). I am worlds away from where I was at 19.
 
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This has also been discussed before on SDN many a time regarding proper disclosure in residency applications. I would check those out and think ahead of time about consulting a lawyer about your situation, and maybe even a few program director's in programs you aren't really considering.

I had an outstanding attending who admits openly she did a lot of drugs (back in the 70's/80's). She cleaned up, went on to become an addictions expert and moreso a major advocate for diversion/dx and tx of addiction in physicians, throughout the state.
 
treeknowledge said:
In all honesty, I think I got this. I rocked the MCAT; I can rock the USMLE.
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33Q is a decent score, but it hardly constitutes "rocking" the MCAT. Not even close to "rocking" the MCAT.
 
koennen said:
33Q is a decent score, but it hardly constitutes "rocking" the MCAT. Not even close to "rocking" the MCAT.
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Dude. Are you out of your mind? A 33Q is in the 91st percentile. That's better than 91 percent of the country. Tell me, what's your definition of "rocking" something --- better than 99 percent of the country? My god.
 
treeknowledge said:
Dude. Are you out of your mind? A 33Q is in the 91st percentile. That's better than 91 percent of the country. Tell me, what's your definition of "rocking" something --- better than 99 percent of the country? My god.
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35+, is considered 'rocking' around here.

Hubris.
 
nitemagi said:
36+ would be considered "rocking it."

It has a mean of 25 and standard deviation of 6.4, so you're about 1.5 standard deviations out.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/157904/data/combined10.pdf

Hubris, indeed. Easier to let time sort this out for the OP.
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Time will sort it out.... when I get a 250!!! Haha!!! But all joking aside, I think I will perform well. Probably not a 250, but I'll still put in a ton of effort in order to do the best that I possibly can.
 
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he'll get whatever board scores he gets and deal with it in due time.

tree: don't do any more illegal drugs, or legal drugs not exactly as prescribed to you by an appropriate physician. ever. that's it. nothing more to say on this topic. and don't be quite so cocky. i say from personal experience it just (justifiably) pisses people off. damn near everyone is medicine is smart. you're a first year med student - go work on memorizing the brachial plexus.
 
Step 1 is much more difficult than the MCAT. I'm just saying this so you know ahead of time. The 5 or so months I studied for Step one were the worst months ever.

I 'rocked' the MCAT based on this thread's definition and got around 250 on step I. However, I started studying 5 months before I took it, studied pretty intensely 3 months prior. In the last month before it, I went into insane mode...meaning I had a schedule set up for the whole month that accounted for every hour of my day:
7: Wake up and breakfast
7:30: take practice test
8:30: Read goljan chapter
9:00: correct practice test
10:00 go for run
etc.

I'm just telling you this so you prepare. The MCAT is daunting, but imo, USMLE is in a whole different league.
 
mlw03 said:
Wait until you take your boards, dral. Arguably even bigger stakes.
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I'm actually going to disagree with this sentiment. The Steps are far and away the biggest exam stakes out there.

You can take the MCAT as many times as you want in order to get the highest possible score.

As far as boards go, as long as you meet whatever time limitation your employment contract mandates, you can take your specialty boards as many times as you need in order to pass as well. I mean, you'll blow a huge wad of cash if you have to take them 4 or 5 times but you'll still have a job in the interim. And nobody cares about your score.

The Steps on the other hand are a one-shot deal (assuming you pass), everybody cares what your score is (and it may have significant effects on your future career options) and you don't have the chance to take it over again in order to improve that number.
 
Good points.

gutonc said:
I'm actually going to disagree with this sentiment. The Steps are far and away the biggest exam stakes out there.

You can take the MCAT as many times as you want in order to get the highest possible score.

As far as boards go, as long as you meet whatever time limitation your employment contract mandates, you can take your specialty boards as many times as you need in order to pass as well. I mean, you'll blow a huge wad of cash if you have to take them 4 or 5 times but you'll still have a job in the interim. And nobody cares about your score.

The Steps on the other hand are a one-shot deal (assuming you pass), everybody cares what your score is (and it may have significant effects on your future career options) and you don't have the chance to take it over again in order to improve that number.
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gutonc said:
As far as boards go, as long as you meet whatever time limitation your employment contract mandates, you can take your specialty boards as many times as you need in order to pass as well. I mean, you'll blow a huge wad of cash if you have to take them 4 or 5 times but you'll still have a job in the interim. And nobody cares about your score.

.
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disagree, flunking your boards this many times really puts your career on hold. In my case, having passed the IM boards reduced the damages of repeatedly flunking psychiatry (part II)
 
gutonc said:
As far as boards go, as long as you meet whatever time limitation your employment contract mandates, you can take your specialty boards as many times as you need in order to pass as well. I mean, you'll blow a huge wad of cash if you have to take them 4 or 5 times but you'll still have a job in the interim. And nobody cares about your score.
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This is factually incorrect related to pediatrics. There are recently placed specific rules related to time and number of attempts and remediation (back to residency) for 3 failures.
 
oldbearprofessor said:
This is factually incorrect related to pediatrics. There are recently placed specific rules related to time and number of attempts and remediation (back to residency) for 3 failures.
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Good point. ABIM just changed the rules slightly as well but only to limit the number of attempts in a 3 year period (I think if you fail twice you have to wait a year before registering again. But no limits on total failures or total attempts.

I stand by the statement that the Steps are higher stakes overall than either specialty boards or MCAT.
 
michaelrack said:
you may change your mind several years from now when you are an attending. Have you taken the IM boards yet?
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Yes.

Also, I think you may be (intentionally?) misinterpreting my statement. ABIM was far and away the hardest of the exams I've taken to date. Also the most esoteric and irrelevant. 10-15% of it was composed of things I dealt with in med school, residency and fellowship. The remainder is made up of things meant to show how smart the exam writers think they are. But that doesn't change the fact that if I do crappy on it or fail it that I can't have another go at it and be out nothing more than a little time and some cash. Same with the MCAT. But if you take Step 1 and/or 2 and do just mediocre on them, the trajectory of your medical career may be changed in ways you didn't imagine and can't really control. Hence the "high stakes."
 
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gutonc said:
Yes.

Also, I think you may be (purposefully?) misinterpreting my statement. ABIM was far and away the hardest of the exams I've taken to date. Also the most esoteric and irrelevant. 10-15% of it was composed of things I dealt with in med school, residency and fellowship. The remainder is made up of things meant to show how smart the exam writers think they are. But that doesn't change the fact that if I do crappy on it or fail it that I can't have another go at it and be out nothing more than a little time and some cash. Same with the MCAT. But if you take Step 1 and/or 2 and do just mediocre on them, the trajectory of your medical career may be changed in ways you didn't imagine and can't really control. Hence the "high stakes."
Click to expand...

I was just curious (if you had taken the boards). I have to take the IM recerrt board exam some time before the end of 2012, not looking forward to it.
 
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