MD schools that don't do malicious pimping?

[RomaniGypsy]

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Searched threads and found nothing, so here goes.

I've been hearing about "pimping" so I decided to look it up. Apparently it can take a variety of forms, on a spectrum as it were, ranging from being asked a bunch of questions by a more experienced doctor who actually cares about your education and won't do anything worse than tell you "look that up and give me an X-minute presentation about it tomorrow" when you miss a question, all the way to the doctor mocking you for your incorrect answer.

I'd be fine with the first condition and I would fight back against the second. I'm an entertainer, so I know how to handle a heckler. But, I'd rather just experience the former condition. I'm also a teacher and I've done that to some of my students, in the name of strengthening their knowledge. It does work, but the mockery and humiliation are not necessary for it to work.

So I want to know, from any of y'all who have been through medical school at least far enough to be able to answer this question from experience - what are some MD schools where the "pimping", if any, never ends in mockery of the student?

I'm going to post this thread in the DO school forum as well, to see if there is a difference in the answers.

 

[Latteandaprayer]

I’m just a premed so I’m unqualified to answer well, but I don’t think any school endorses pimping... it’s done by doctors during rotations, not by the school. There’s no way a school could regulate how the doctors behave. Even if students complain, the school can’t do anything beyond telling the doctor he/she shouldn’t pimp.

 

[RomaniGypsy]

I’m just a premed so I’m unqualified to answer well, but I don’t think any school endorses pimping... it’s done by doctors during rotations, not by the school. There’s no way a school could regulate how the doctors behave. Even if students complain, the school can’t do anything beyond telling the doctor he/she shouldn’t pimp.

Okay, going with this for a bit... doesn't the school arrange for the rotations? If "yes", then one would think that the school carries a certain amount of responsibility for the content of the rotations and how their students are treated by the doctors during the rotations. So even if the school can't legally regulate how the doctors behave, couldn't it stop sending its students to that doctor for rotations?

 

[DrRiker]

Some schools have anonymous tip lines established to curb this sort of behavior. It's a good interview question if this is a regular concern of yours.

 

[BigBoss]

Pimping exists everywhere. It’s not a bad thing. If you don’t know the answer, just say “I’ll get back to you on that.” You shouldn’t go to medical school if that’s your primary concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HomeSkool]

This is correct.

That is only partially correct. The school schedules its students for rotations, but the rotation directors make the individual assignments. If students are paired with toxic attendings, the school may have limited options for addressing the problem. They could choose a new rotation director, but that wouldn't fix things if the whole department were toxic.

There are other things to consider, too -- for example, the attendings are generally employees of the health system rather than the medical school, the school may have training agreements with a limited number of sites, and the OP is talking about a toxicity that pervades medical culture nationwide. Humiliation as a part of medical training is a complex, multifactorial issue, and simply blaming the school is naïve.

Another consideration is the role of individual perceptions. When I teach, I often start by asking questions of increasing depth and complexity to feel out the edges of the trainee's knowledge. I'll frequently ask questions that require integration and multi-step reasoning, then leave my trainee alone in the OR to think about things for at least fifteen minutes before coming back to discuss the answer. I do all this in a non-threatening way, and my trainees overwhelmingly give me outstanding evaluations citing my intraoperative teaching style as a highlight of working with me. But I had one trainee a few years ago who wrote that I was the "mean" attending because I asked him questions to which he didn't know the answers. For that guy, the only way I could win was to pat him on the head, spoon feed him, and hand him a gold star. My point: some learners are fragile and absurd, and they'll call anything toxic if it pushes them out of their comfort zone.

 

[Med Ed]

and I would fight back against the second. I'm an entertainer, so I know how to handle a heckler.

A medical student treating an attending like a heckler would certainly be entertaining. It would likely go down in school history.

 

[RomaniGypsy]

Med students tend not to report mistreatment unless it's pretty egregious - they're worried it will negatively affect their grade or their reputation

Is this true? Does it tend to affect their grades and/or reputations negatively if students report mistreatment? (If "yes", how do medical schools avoid major legal trouble for retaliation?)

I think the best you can do is look for a school that has a supportive culture with regards to medical student wellness, emphasis on good teaching, and taking student voices into account. The better question to ask if/when you get interviews is "how does your administration respond to reports of mistreatment?" I think that will give you an idea of the culture of that school, whether they listen to students, and how they handle problematic clinical faculty.

That's pretty much what I'm trying to do here. But I figure that I am likely to get more accurate answers from people who are in the thick of it, rather than administrators or admissions committee members who might have vested interests in trying to make their school look awesome. Let's face it, as a musical performer, I've seen elder care facilities of all types, from the great to the awful, and nobody employed by an "awful" facility is going to tell a prospective resident or that person's family that the facility is awful.

But to be honest, you kind of just have to have a thick skin. Like any career field, you're going to encounter nasty people.

I can deal with that if the people don't have an effect on my grades and future prospects, or if I could return fire without retaliation. I've spent my whole life being picked on in one way or another and I've learned how to shut people up... but if doing so would torpedo my career chances such that I would end up with a mountain of student loan debt and no career prospects, that's a situation I'd rather avoid by seeking out a school or situation that stands staunchly against such behavior from doctors.

Further, the whole point of 3rd year is that you start having no clue what you're doing, and finish having learned a whole bunch. Which means you spend the whole year being corrected and told you're doing things wrong about 5 times a day. Once you finally get the hang of things, you switch to a new service! Give people the benefit of the doubt that they're trying to help you and not be cruel. If they are genuinely just a mean person, know that it's probably more about them than about you. Try to listen to any valid concerns they may have, but otherwise just don't take them too seriously.

It's one thing not to take seriously a person who just seems to act unpleasant, but not in any direct way toward any specific student. Such people do exist. But if someone starts attacking me, like I said, I'm going to return fire. And I can tell the difference between "this person is trying to teach me something" and "this person is being unnecessarily mean". I've been in both situations.

I really don't mind having no clue what I'm doing and learning a bunch of new stuff. That's really one of the main reasons why I'm still looking at medical school... because, when talking about psychology and counseling, people seem to think that I would have difficulties with that education because I've been doing it for so long, informally, that I feel I know a lot about it already. Maybe that's true. I sure don't know a lot about medicine, though I do look up medical conditions and their causes on a regular basis if for no other reason than to make it easier for my doctor to diagnose me when I have to pay him a visit.

ETA: And "nice" pimping is actually a SUPER helpful learning tool in my opinion. I love it when attendings and residents quiz me. Really reinforces your knowledge and makes you think and integrate all the little bits of info you've memorized. And if you get something wrong and look it up yourself, you bet you're never going to forget that piece of information!

I'm totally fine with that. As I said earlier, I do the very same thing as a teacher sometimes.

Pimping exists everywhere. It’s not a bad thing. If you don’t know the answer, just say “I’ll get back to you on that.” You shouldn’t go to medical school if that’s your primary concern.

I'm fine with this too, as long as the doctor won't mock me for not knowing the answer. (Really - were all of these doctors born knowing all of the answers, or did they, at some point, have to learn it all from an original position of not having a clue about much? If they had to learn it, have they forgotten what it was like being the clueless medical student?) I would expect that the end result of me having to say "I don't know" in response to a question would be that the doctor would insist that I look it up and learn about what I don't know.

Fair - perhaps my experience is unique in that (1) the clerkship directors work very closely with our student affairs and undergraduate medical education deans to develop the rotation curriculum and address student concerns and (2) my school is affiliated with an enormous teaching hospital system where in most departments it's relatively easy to shuffle students around to other attendings who enjoy teaching and don't mistreat students.

What school do you attend?

 

[RomaniGypsy]

A medical student treating an attending like a heckler would certainly be entertaining. It would likely go down in school history.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, that's exactly what I would do if the attending crossed the line into mocking me. You don't do that no matter who you are. We're all human beings, our blood is red, and if you put a drop of mine next to a drop of yours, nobody would be able to tell any differences between them without a good microscope. There's teaching and there's unnecessary humiliation. Really, what are they going to do? Kick me out of med school for returning fire? They're not employed by the school - this is what others on this thread have said - so one would think they have no sway on whether or not the student stays. And if the student were to report to the school that this attending were humiliating and mocking students unnecessarily, one would think that the administration would take that into consideration if that attending could have some sway or control over the student's experience (such as by giving him/her a bad grade because he/she dared to return fire).

Maybe y'all can answer another question, too. My wife came up with this one. Do female med students get "pimped" as frequently and/or viciously as male med students? (Don't consider "good pimping" situations where there is no mockery going on. I'm talking only about mockery situations.)

 

[HomeSkool]

What school do you attend?

FYI: it's uncool to ask @cj_cregg that since that would compromise his/her anonymity.

Also: taking on The Man as a student is a great way to have your career die a martyr's death. It's much better to swallow your pride, live to fight another day, eventually become The Man, and then change whatever the hell you want. Choose your battles wisely, especially when you're in an essentially powerless position.

 

[Med Ed]

At the risk of sounding arrogant, that's exactly what I would do if the attending crossed the line into mocking me. You don't do that no matter who you are. We're all human beings, our blood is red, and if you put a drop of mine next to a drop of yours, nobody would be able to tell any differences between them without a good microscope. There's teaching and there's unnecessary humiliation. Really, what are they going to do? Kick me out of med school for returning fire? They're not employed by the school - this is what others on this thread have said - so one would think they have no sway on whether or not the student stays. And if the student were to report to the school that this attending were humiliating and mocking students unnecessarily, one would think that the administration would take that into consideration if that attending could have some sway or control over the student's experience (such as by giving him/her a bad grade because he/she dared to return fire).

If you are hellbent on avoiding or combating certain transient unpleasant experiences that may occur in the course of your clinical training, I suggest you find another career path.

 

[HomeSkool]

Returning fire doesn't help anything, it just makes things worse. It's not like the mean attending doesn't know he's being mean or will change his ways because a plucky student "fired back" once.

A couple weeks ago, a mosquito bit me. I got an itchy bump on my arm. The mosquito got splattered.

Don't be the mosquito.

 

[ciestar]

At the risk of sounding arrogant, that's exactly what I would do if the attending crossed the line into mocking me. You don't do that no matter who you are. We're all human beings, our blood is red, and if you put a drop of mine next to a drop of yours, nobody would be able to tell any differences between them without a good microscope. There's teaching and there's unnecessary humiliation. Really, what are they going to do? Kick me out of med school for returning fire? They're not employed by the school - this is what others on this thread have said - so one would think they have no sway on whether or not the student stays. And if the student were to report to the school that this attending were humiliating and mocking students unnecessarily, one would think that the administration would take that into consideration if that attending could have some sway or control over the student's experience (such as by giving him/her a bad grade because he/she dared to return fire).

Maybe y'all can answer another question, too. My wife came up with this one. Do female med students get "pimped" as frequently and/or viciously as male med students? (Don't consider "good pimping" situations where there is no mockery going on. I'm talking only about mockery situations.)

For sure that sounds arrogant. Problem being, don’t think you’ll be the one that changes things. Who is the one writing your eval and reporting your performance back to your school? Attendings.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I'm fine with this too, as long as the doctor won't mock me for not knowing the answer.

What if it's an answer you have no excuse to not know. This isn't a hobby camp for god's sake people's literal lives are at stake.

Based on all of your musings OP you already seem to have an attitude problem before you've even begun beginning. For a guy/gal who supposedly is trying to stay out of a fight you sure as hell seem itching for one.

 

[Goro]

Searched threads and found nothing, so here goes.

I've been hearing about "pimping" so I decided to look it up. Apparently it can take a variety of forms, on a spectrum as it were, ranging from being asked a bunch of questions by a more experienced doctor who actually cares about your education and won't do anything worse than tell you "look that up and give me an X-minute presentation about it tomorrow" when you miss a question, all the way to the doctor mocking you for your incorrect answer.

I'd be fine with the first condition and I would fight back against the second. I'm an entertainer, so I know how to handle a heckler. But, I'd rather just experience the former condition. I'm also a teacher and I've done that to some of my students, in the name of strengthening their knowledge. It does work, but the mockery and humiliation are not necessary for it to work.

So I want to know, from any of y'all who have been through medical school at least far enough to be able to answer this question from experience - what are some MD schools where the "pimping", if any, never ends in mockery of the student?

I'm going to post this thread in the DO school forum as well, to see if there is a difference in the answers.

As the wise @Crayola227 would say, "get used to the taste of your tongue".

Not all patients are nice either. What will you do when you starts cursing you out because you don't give them a 'scrip for Vicodin?

 

[HomeSkool]

As the wise @Crayola227Not all patients are nice either. What will you do when you starts cursing you out because you don't give them a 'scrip for Vicodin?

Fire the patient and have security escort them from the medical center. Or, in my case, storm into the PACU at 2 am and tell the patient that if she doesn't stop verbally abusing and spitting and swinging at your PACU nurses, you'll intubate her awake and leave her that way on a ventilator all night long. (To answer your next question: Yes. In front of six security officers.)

 

[Goro]

Fire the patient and have security escort them from the medical center. Or, in my case, storm into the PACU at 2 am and tell the patient that if she doesn't stop verbally abusing and spitting and swinging at your PACU nurses, you'll intubate her awake and leave her that way on a ventilator all night long. (To answer your next question: Yes. In front of six security officers.)

Now where's that link to that train wreck of a thread where the OP was pissing and moaning about a patient who called her a bitch (under her breath), AFTER she left the room???

 

[Robin-jay]

How do you guys not think this is troll?

 

[RomaniGypsy]

What if it's an answer you have no excuse to not know. This isn't a hobby camp for god's sake people's literal lives are at stake.

If I have no excuse not to know it, I will know it. Period. If I don't know it, then by default I have an excuse, which for me is more like a "good reason", for not knowing it. I'd like to think that I will know everything important enough to determine whether someone lives or dies if there is no excuse not to know it.

Based on all of your musings OP you already seem to have an attitude problem before you've even begun beginning. For a guy/gal who supposedly is trying to stay out of a fight you sure as hell seem itching for one.

On the contrary, I'm actually quite a peaceful person. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and do whatever I can to respect those I'm around, especially if they know more than I do. But people here are basically saying that if you go into medical school, at times it's like being thrown to the lions, and for no apparent benefit. For one thing, that makes no sense when these "lions" are doctors because they've passed muster with their desire to help humanity, and for another, if I'm going to be told to expect this sort of mockery, I'm going to go into the "arena" ready to defend myself if things get nasty, sort of like how I carry my gun with me if I know I'm going into an unusually dangerous area or situation. (That does not mean that I'm itching to get into a shootout. It just means that I'm prepared to defend myself with the force necessary to neutralize the threat. Every time I carry, I hope that I don't have reason to pull the trigger.) This is one of the main reasons why I'm asking about schools that don't engage in this practice. I prefer not having to worry about it, just as I prefer being in places where I don't feel like it would be wise to carry my gun for personal protection.

I find no logic in the suggestion to suck it up and deal, when the people dishing out unnecessary abuse are supposed to be helping you and teaching you, after having dedicated their lives to helping humanity and upholding the Hippocratic Oath. "First, do no harm" - this type of mockery is harmful with no counterbalancing benefit. The same learning can be accomplished without the mockery. Thus, I could make a good case for how the mockery aspect of it, whenever it's employed, violates the Hippocratic Oath.

As the wise @Crayola227 would say, "get used to the taste of your tongue".

Not all patients are nice either. What will you do when you starts cursing you out because you don't give them a 'scrip for Vicodin?

That strikes me as a different type of situation, because the "abuser" is not in a superior or teaching position over the "victim". I can take being cursed out if I know I have done the right thing. It's happened before. Besides, I imagine that nobody is likely to curse me out over refusing to prescribe opiate painkillers unless that person is a drug addict just looking for a fix, or a dealer looking to turn the pills for a profit on the street. It seems to me that most people who aren't addicts tend to be wary of opiates / narcotics due to their addictive potential. (Am I wrong about this? Has it happened that people who are neither addicts nor dealers will become verbally violent toward a doctor who won't prescribe opiates because he/she believes they're not indicated?)

There's one more thing I might add here. It would seem, from my outsider's perspective at least, that there's a certain element of "at least they're paying me enough to take this kind of abuse". I guess that not everyone feels like that, but if you're going to take abuse in pretty much every work situation you have (which seems probable though I could never know everything about every work situation), you may as well at least be adequately compensated for it. If doctors have to deal with abuse from patients regularly, then those who stick with the profession must believe that it's "worth it".

By the way, I was not aiming to compromise anyone's anonymity by asking about that medical school. If it's even possible to search student names at schools, I imagine that it's improbable to match a screen name to a student name, and besides, I have zero desire to do that. If I want to know someone's name, I will ask in private and if the person wishes to remain anonymous, so shall he/she be and that'll be the end of it. (I've never asked for anyone's name online in the 20 years I've been using the Internet.)

 

[RomaniGypsy]

How do you guys not think this is troll?

Because this isn't troll. When you look at apple, you don't think it is pickle, because it isn't pickle; it is apple.

 

[Robin-jay]

Because this isn't troll. When you look at apple, you don't think it is pickle, because it isn't pickle; it is apple.

9/10

 

[NITRAS]

If the idea of pimping bothers you, I'd suggest another career.

Some of my best teachers were the most harsh. I remember the lessions of calling a practicing nephrologist in the wee hours of the morning with a stupid question.

Some people are just mean, but those are few and far between, and they tend not to be in academic centers.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Okay, going with this for a bit... doesn't the school arrange for the rotations? If "yes", then one would think that the school carries a certain amount of responsibility for the content of the rotations and how their students are treated by the doctors during the rotations. So even if the school can't legally regulate how the doctors behave, couldn't it stop sending its students to that doctor for rotations?

but if doing so would torpedo my career chances such that I would end up with a mountain of student loan debt and no career prospects, that's a situation I'd rather avoid by seeking out a school or situation that stands staunchly against such behavior from doctors.

But if someone starts attacking me, like I said, I'm going to return fire. And I can tell the difference between "this person is trying to teach me something" and "this person is being unnecessarily mean". I've been in both situations.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, that's exactly what I would do if the attending crossed the line into mocking me. You don't do that no matter who you are. We're all human beings, our blood is red, and if you put a drop of mine next to a drop of yours, nobody would be able to tell any differences between them without a good microscope. There's teaching and there's unnecessary humiliation. Really, what are they going to do? Kick me out of med school for returning fire? They're not employed by the school - this is what others on this thread have said - so one would think they have no sway on whether or not the student stays. And if the student were to report to the school that this attending were humiliating and mocking students unnecessarily, one would think that the administration would take that into consideration if that attending could have some sway or control over the student's experience (such as by giving him/her a bad grade because he/she dared to return fire).

If I have no excuse not to know it, I will know it. Period

You sound really annoying and probably deserve merciless pimping. Don’t go into medicine because it sounds like you aren’t a good fit.

 

[solitarius]

The West Coast schools are very touchy feely. You'll still get pimped, but not with a malicious intent.

 

[Robin-jay]

I've never seen people being trolled so hard in my life.

 

[Lawpy]

I've never seen people being trolled so hard in my life.

Sadly, I think OP is being serious. Also, OP's past posts aren't exactly fun to read since he was drafting lengthy dissertations to disagree with members. Seems like he still has a stubborn and combative behavior here.

 

[Goro]

Sadly, I think OP is being serious. Also, OP's past posts aren't exactly fun to read since he was drafting lengthy dissertations to disagree with members. Seems like he still has a stubborn and combative behavior here.

Oh no, It's THAT guy!
Don't worry, he'll never make it into medical school.

 

[battie]

I'd like to think that I will know everything important enough to determine whether someone lives or dies if there is no excuse not to know it

But people here are basically saying that if you go into medical school, at times it's like being thrown to the lions, and for no apparent benefit.

I imagine that it's improbable to match a screen name to a student name,

Maybe I spend too much time in vet med land, but this seems pretty naive to me.

1) It's impossible to know everything all the time on clinics. Even the best person will have an off day cause no one is perfect. The first veterinarian I shadowed told me the number 1 reason to not become a vet is because, eventually, you will make a mistake and accidentally kill or harm a patient. I would imagine there are plenty of examples in human med as well.

2) That's not just school; that's life.

3) It's definitely happened before.

All of the advice here could easily be applied as sound life advice as much as school advice. I don't get why you're confused here. The reality is, people suck. Sometimes you can do something about it; sometimes you can't.

 

[Med Ed]

How do you guys not think this is troll?

Posting history.

 

[HomeSkool]

When you look at apple, you don't think it is pickle, because it isn't pickle; it is apple.

 

[Goro]

View attachment 238048

😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

 

[bananafish94]

It's too early to worry about discriminating between schools based on things like this. Worry first about applying broadly and getting some acceptances, and if you are lucky enough to be able to choose between more than one school you can start to look into things like school culture and pick the best one for you.

 

[getdown]

Fight back to an attending? That will be in your evals and any residency program that got a hold of these evals would definitely screen you out. Nobody wants to work with an dingus full of themselves when they know nothing and willingly endanger patient lives due to their ego. We actively look for "unteachable" applicants during interview and will reject them outright.

 

[trobinsonmd]

I'm not sure if you are being serious, but if you are, west coast schools typically do it to a lesser extent than the older, more established east coast schools... I went to school in nyc and a lot of my friends were also at good programs on the east coast and it is more common and to a higher extent than from what i have heard from my friends that go to UCs or other west coast schools like ohsu or stuff like that... still happens everywhere though and you cannot avoid it

 

[Lawpy]

Fight back to an attending? That will be in your evals and any residency program that got a hold of these evals would definitely screen you out. Nobody wants to work with an dingus full of themselves when they know nothing. We actively look for "unteachable" applicants during interview and will reject them outright.

@Goro and @HomeSkool would strongly approve. It seems that OP might fall in that category.

 

[Goro]

@Goro and @HomeSkool would strongly approve. It seems that OP might fall in that category.

No "might" here.

 

[Lurkvey]

How do you guys not think this is troll?

I've never seen people being trolled so hard in my life.

Uhh, it is a little weird for this to be brought up in the pre-med forums, but it really isn't an uncommon topic for SDN (usually it's in the med student or nontrad forums). This sort of topic is pretty commonly started by nontrad career changers.

Even if it is a troll, it's good for pre-meds to know, in case they don't learn about it from their clinical experience/reading the med student forums.

 

[Lawpy]

No "might" here.

True, and I just saw OP got smacked with the banhammer!

 

[Goro]

As a teaching moment, I hope the mods can share, even if only in a PM, why the PP got banned.

IF he was a troll, he will be one of the more memorable ones!

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

As a teaching moment, I hope the mods can share, even if only in a PM, why the PP got banned.

IF he was a troll, he will be one of the more memorable ones!

Not sure either. But still amusing how OP:
-keeps talking about the Hippocratic oath without knowing what it actually states
-constantly talks about how they have “experience” in psychology and counseling but “informally” (ie no real experience other than commiserating with friends)
-tries to compare pimping on rounds to heckling



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

Not sure either. But still amusing how OP:
-keeps talking about the Hippocratic oath without knowing what it actually states
-constantly talks about how they have “experience” in psychology and counseling but “informally” (ie no real experience other than commiserating with friends)
-tries to compare pimping on rounds to heckling



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I'll wager he was not trolling. I don't think a troll would rattle off Stephen King-length novellas in response to each answer SDNers made to his posts.

 

[Toutie]

I'll wager he was not trolling. I don't think a troll would rattle off Stephen King-length novellas in response to each answer SDNers made to his posts.

I don't think he was trolling either. Between this thread and the other 2 he started...OMG...he has to have some major calluses on his fingers from all that typing! I can't believe anyone can even talk that much let alone type that much. My brain hurt trying to read all his responses.

 

[RomaniGypsy]

I'll wager he was not trolling. I don't think a troll would rattle off Stephen King-length novellas in response to each answer SDNers made to his posts.

No, I doubt one would. I'm not posting just to incite emotions. If medical school and the whole experience are as heavy as people say they are, then there's a lot of information I need to gather before pulling the trigger. I'd have to spend another year or so getting prerequisites done, though I did knock down ten credits' worth of them in the spring semester this year. Other options available to me don't require more prereq's than I have already completed.

I don't think he was trolling either. Between this thread and the other 2 he started...OMG...he has to have some major calluses on his fingers from all that typing! I can't believe anyone can even talk that much let alone type that much. My brain hurt trying to read all his responses.

I play guitar and piano. The calluses were already there. 🙂

And I type quickly, so it's not as time-intensive as people might think. I like to get a lot of information in a short period of time.

As for that "banhammer", I found out that it was dropped in error, so I'm still here.

I guess I'm confused about a few things. People tell me that I shouldn't worry about a specialty right away, but do people really go into medical school thinking "I want to be a doctor" in the general sense rather than having at least some idea of the specialty(ies) they prefer? And is it really a thing that people will do all of that work to get into medical school first, without already knowing what to expect?

Really, I'm asking these questions and gathering this information because if it would turn out that medical school is a bad match for me, the wise thing to do would be save my time and money and not apply. Better to know this sooner rather than later, right?

 

[Goro]

No, I doubt one would. I'm not posting just to incite emotions. If medical school and the whole experience are as heavy as people say they are, then there's a lot of information I need to gather before pulling the trigger. I'd have to spend another year or so getting prerequisites done, though I did knock down ten credits' worth of them in the spring semester this year. Other options available to me don't require more prereq's than I have already completed.



I play guitar and piano. The calluses were already there. 🙂

And I type quickly, so it's not as time-intensive as people might think. I like to get a lot of information in a short period of time.

As for that "banhammer", I found out that it was dropped in error, so I'm still here.

I guess I'm confused about a few things. People tell me that I shouldn't worry about a specialty right away, but do people really go into medical school thinking "I want to be a doctor" in the general sense rather than having at least some idea of the specialty(ies) they prefer? And is it really a thing that people will do all of that work to get into medical school first, without already knowing what to expect?

Really, I'm asking these questions and gathering this information because if it would turn out that medical school is a bad match for me, the wise thing to do would be save my time and money and not apply. Better to know this sooner rather than later, right?

In general, I've found that people here gun for a particular specialty, and then either get weeded away from it by either Board scores, or experiences in rotations. Others fall in love when something unexpected bites them on the butt.

I've found a good number of SDNers are quite starry-eyed about particular specialties, especially when they have zero experience with them.

So, it's quite common for people to change thier preferences. I strongly suggest shadowing different kinds of doctors so you can see howe different ones approach the practice of Medicine.

 

[cubsrule4e]

People tell me that I shouldn't worry about a specialty right away, but do people really go into medical school thinking "I want to be a doctor" in the general sense rather than having at least some idea of the specialty(ies) they prefer? And is it really a thing that people will do all of that work to get into medical school first, without already knowing what to expect?

It's fine to have an interest in a specialty and aim for it from day 1. Point is to stay open minded throughout the process as your knowledge base and understanding of the different areas of medicine increases. Many people find a specialty they thought theyd really like doesnt match their personality or lifestyle at all, and something they never even considered because they didnt know hardly anything about it becomes a perfect fit for them. I was dead set on orthopedics when i entered med school and now Im an ophthalmologist. And then yes, there are people who from day one know what they want and they go and get it. Everyone is different, and if youre true to the process you'll figure out what's best for you.

 

[ciestar]

No, I doubt one would. I'm not posting just to incite emotions. If medical school and the whole experience are as heavy as people say they are, then there's a lot of information I need to gather before pulling the trigger. I'd have to spend another year or so getting prerequisites done, though I did knock down ten credits' worth of them in the spring semester this year. Other options available to me don't require more prereq's than I have already completed.



I play guitar and piano. The calluses were already there. 🙂

And I type quickly, so it's not as time-intensive as people might think. I like to get a lot of information in a short period of time.

As for that "banhammer", I found out that it was dropped in error, so I'm still here.

I guess I'm confused about a few things. People tell me that I shouldn't worry about a specialty right away, but do people really go into medical school thinking "I want to be a doctor" in the general sense rather than having at least some idea of the specialty(ies) they prefer? And is it really a thing that people will do all of that work to get into medical school first, without already knowing what to expect?

Really, I'm asking these questions and gathering this information because if it would turn out that medical school is a bad match for me, the wise thing to do would be save my time and money and not apply. Better to know this sooner rather than later, right?

I feel as though many students enter medical school with an idea of what they want to specialize in. I for sure did. Granted, I’m about to finish my first rotation, but I was adamant in my thinking about not wanting to do FM and after my rotation, I really think it is a good fit for me as a specialty. They tell you to keep an open mind because once you enter third year and you’re exposed to specialties, you might change your mind and like specialties a lot more than you thought you would. Right now I am sure i don’t want to do surgery but i could change my mind (still doubtful) because I haven’t experienced it yet.

 

[ciestar]

In general, I've found that people here gun for a particular specialty, and then either get weeded away from it by either Board scores, or experiences in rotations. Others fall in love when something unexpected bites them on the butt.

I've found a good number of SDNers are quite starry-eyed about particular specialties, especially when they have zero experience with them.

So, it's quite common for people to change thier preferences. I strongly suggest shadowing different kinds of doctors so you can see howe different ones approach the practice of Medicine.

Speaking of... 😳

 

[RomaniGypsy]

I feel as though many students enter medical school with an idea of what they want to specialize in. I for sure did. Granted, I’m about to finish my first rotation, but I was adamant in my thinking about not wanting to do FM and after my rotation, I really think it is a good fit for me as a specialty. They tell you to keep an open mind because once you enter third year and you’re exposed to specialties, you might change your mind and like specialties a lot more than you thought you would. Right now I am sure i don’t want to do surgery but i could change my mind (still doubtful) because I haven’t experienced it yet.

I've often thought that I could be a good surgeon, because one would think that precise fine motor skills in your hands would be an absolute must for a surgeon. I've always been able to reach a level of precision in the movement of my hands and fingers that most people can't reach, or so they say anyway. (Maybe they haven't tried.) I just don't think I'd enjoy the life. My wife had to have a surgery three years ago and the surgeon felt tired... said he'd prefer to do it in the morning the next day. Yet, the director of surgery insisted that it get done that night, and the surgeon didn't get to go home until after 11 PM. From my perspective, I was glad that my wife got taken care of sooner... but from the surgeon's perspective, it had to have been quite rough. Surgery is something that can never be rushed even if you want to get home.

So... even if I did go into medicine, I'm 99.9% sure that I wouldn't be interested in a surgical specialty. It's for some people... not for me.

 

[Robin-jay]

I've always been able to reach a level of precision in the movement of my hands and fingers that most people can't reach, or so they say anyway. (Maybe they haven't tried.) I just don't think I'd enjoy the life.

Examples?

 

[FutureOncologist]

I've never experienced toxic pimping. More-so the former example. The first lesson I was taught as an M3 was during a peds rotation: "if you don't know the answer, just say 'I don't know.'" I was being asked about extravascular vs. intravascular HA's and, at first, what I would look for in a peripheral blood smear and other blood tests. Then, if I suspected intravascular HA, then what organ issues should I see? What tests to run? If it's extravascular, then what tests/treatments/side effects would I order/expect? Complications? Why would I prescribe penicillin for patients with extravascular HA's. And so on.

I believe in pimping without destroying a medical student's/intern's self-confidence. I would want to teach them to look at EVERYTHING, but without them second-guessing themselves on ordering a patient aspirin.