"MD vs. DO" is meaningless in terms of prestige (to the average person)

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studentp0x

studentp0x

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Honestly your average person off the street who hasn't been sick much won't even know what an MD is.... I've known pre-meds in 2nd year who haven't know that the MD was the name of the degree you get when you're done.

What the average person thinks is prestigious and smart: a Ph.D (the most well known degree) or just being called Dr. X

School name is also irrelevant if it's not Harvard and maybe Yale..Stanford.. (depends where you're located obviously...)

Anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating should look at that extremely long thread that has the funniest things people say about admissions or whatever. The level of ignorance among pre-meds is insane to the point where the average people is absolutely clueless when it comes to degree names and letters after your last name.
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studentp0x said:
Honestly your average person off the street who hasn't been sick much won't even know what an MD is.... I've known pre-meds in 2nd year who haven't know that the MD was the name of the degree you get when you're done.

What the average person thinks is prestigious and smart: a Ph.D (the most well known degree) or just being called Dr. X

School name is also irrelevant if it's not Harvard and maybe Yale..Stanford.. (depends where you're located obviously...)

Anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating should look at that extremely long thread that has the funniest things people say about admissions or whatever. The level of ignorance among pre-meds is insane to the point where the average people is absolutely clueless when it comes to degree names and letters after your last name.
Click to expand...

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Thank you for this PSA, studentp0x! Never have I ever seen a more useless thread.



Let the flame wars begin!
 
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Patients don't care whether you're an MD or DO. Patients just want to be treated, and treated well, for their ailments by a competent physician.
 
studentp0x said:
Honestly your average person off the street who hasn't been sick much won't even know what an MD is.... I've known pre-meds in 2nd year who haven't know that the MD was the name of the degree you get when you're done.

What the average person thinks is prestigious and smart: a Ph.D (the most well known degree) or just being called Dr. X

School name is also irrelevant if it's not Harvard and maybe Yale..Stanford.. (depends where you're located obviously...)

Anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating should look at that extremely long thread that has the funniest things people say about admissions or whatever. The level of ignorance among pre-meds is insane to the point where the average people is absolutely clueless when it comes to degree names and letters after your last name.
Click to expand...
Really? Maybe it's my bay area bubble, but everyone knows doctors get an MD. Most don't know what DO is, but most people either don't notice or don't care once you explain you are a physician.
 
I want to thank so much for creating such a great thread that brings everything into perspective. I think this post will add just as much to this thread as this thread has to the forum.
 
This is not a value judgment, but I have met many people who thought that DOs were naturopathic doctors.
 
In other news, man lands on the moon and water is still wet!

srs, I work in the ED at the hospital and both ED Heads are DO. Nurses, techs, PA's , PGs , nobody notices the difference between the docs 2 letters. However most of the surgeon I have seen are MD. Not saying causation to correlation, however you are right about the meaninglessness.
 
swolebrah said:
In other news, man lands on the moon and water is still wet!

srs, I work in the ED at the hospital and both ED Heads are DO. Nurses, techs, PA's , PGs , nobody notices the difference between the docs 2 letters. However most of the surgeon I have seen are MD. Not saying causation to correlation, however you are right about the meaninglessness.
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Correlation is real. The proportion of DO going to surgery is low and usually done through AOA training.
 
Most people just don't understand any of the distinctions. I've talked to a lot of people who thought Podiatry is an MD and didn't even know what DO was. Generally if your Dr. Name then your a Dr.

Not that any of that matters.
 
DOs really have difficulties getting into surgery and other specialities in residency, that alone is pretty damn meaningful to me. I'd rather be a MD just for the opportunities it provides and not shut myself out of specialities I might be interested in just by enrolling into a DO school. DOs and MDs are "equal" in theory, but at the same time they aren't really equal in terms of the opportunities they provide. If they were equal there would be absolutely no problem consolidating DOs and MDs into one program, and offering osteopathy as electives you can take and be certified for if you want.

I'm not bashing DOs at all, but either they should be consolidated into one medical degree or provide equal opportunities in residency programs and in other ways to reflect such equality.

If the layman needs an orthopedic surgeon or any other type of surgeon they will get an MD a huge majority of time, so even if they don't recognize they difference it is meaningful due to the fact that mds are the ones that in general provide that sort of care, whereas the fraction of DOs is far lower.
 
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If you're referring to lay prestige..who actually cares? No one is going to bow down to you because you went to Harvard med, either. Anyway, worthless post is worthless, carry on.
 
Seems like Dogbert wasn't wrong when he said anecdotal evidence is the best kind of evidence, lol.

If you truly think there is no difference, then why is anyone (premeds are people too) able to make a distinction? PhDs in astrophysics and literature are more different, and they still have the same degree. If you think people don't discriminate on less, I have thousands of years of history I could cite.

And this "Ivy League doesn't matter" malarky doesn't make sense either. Prestige is real, and people care about it. Whether they should care is a matter of debate.
 
type12 said:
Seems like Dogbert wasn't wrong when he said anecdotal evidence is the best kind of evidence, lol.

If you truly think there is no difference, then why is anyone (premeds are people too) able to make a distinction? PhDs in astrophysics and literature are more different, and they still have the same degree. If you think people don't discriminate on less, I have thousands of years of history I could cite.

And this "Ivy League doesn't matter" malarky doesn't make sense either. Prestige is real, and people care about it. Whether they should care is a matter of debate.
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Who cares about prestige besides your mom and potential employer?
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
Correlation is real. The proportion of DO going to surgery is low and usually done through AOA training.
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You might be right. I see it as why wouldn't you want to do everything you can do maximize your chances into a competitive specialty. If MD does do that, MD is obviously more valuable choice in a career path then DO. Again, I am not bashing DO.
 
studentp0x said:
Honestly your average person off the street who hasn't been sick much won't even know what an MD is.... I've known pre-meds in 2nd year who haven't know that the MD was the name of the degree you get when you're done.

What the average person thinks is prestigious and smart: a Ph.D (the most well known degree) or just being called Dr. X
Click to expand...
The non college educated layman has no idea what a PhD even is, just fyi.
 
WillburCobb said:
Way. To. Over. Exaggerate.

Edit - bah! I hate SDN on my phone. Too many damn hoops to jump through to post GIFs and memes.
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Not exaggerating, even if it may appear minimal (show me if it does) with the amount of difficulties and limitations in the medical field already this is one more unnecessary obstacle that can be avoided just by going the MD route. Potential DO surgeons also have to jump through additional hoops (may have changed since residency consolidation) and that is hardly a sign of equality.
 
DMD vs DDS is a similar topic. Do people really know the difference/care to? The average person would probably reply "no". They do care about the treatment they get and the results they see. You can be a great, well known doc either route you go.
 
Counterpoint: Doctors don't care about prestige from people they don't know, like the general public. Instead, it matters more how much influence your degree has on your peers or supervisors. I am certain earning an MD from an elite school, say Hopkins, will have noticeably more clout with job applications and such to academic medical centers. Enough to be career-changing? Debatable, judging from the number of times this gets brought up.
 
studentp0x said:
Who cares about prestige besides your mom and potential employer?
Click to expand...
Everyone. Would you attend a seminar/talk by Dr. Nobody or Dr. Cured Cancer? If a person says they don't care, they're either lying or not the sharping tool in the drawer.

Thank you Underu, that's on point too.
 
studentp0x said:
Honestly your average person off the street who hasn't been sick much won't even know what an MD is.... I've known pre-meds in 2nd year who haven't know that the MD was the name of the degree you get when you're done.

What the average person thinks is prestigious and smart: a Ph.D (the most well known degree) or just being called Dr. X

School name is also irrelevant if it's not Harvard and maybe Yale..Stanford.. (depends where you're located obviously...)

Anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating should look at that extremely long thread that has the funniest things people say about admissions or whatever. The level of ignorance among pre-meds is insane to the point where the average people is absolutely clueless when it comes to degree names and letters after your last name.
Click to expand...

If you care about your level of prestige amongst colleagues you are probably normal. If you care about your level of prestige amongst the "average person off the street" you are dumb. If someone doesn't know the difference between an MD and a DO, then they clearly aren't informed enough to have a valuable opinion about the difference (or lack thereof) in prestige between the two.

What's that saying.. something about the lion doesn't concern itself with the opinion of the sheep.
 
type12 said:
Everyone. Would you attend a seminar/talk by Dr. Nobody or Dr. Cured Cancer? If a person says they don't care, they're either lying or not the sharping tool in the drawer.

Thank you Underu, that's on point too.
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When you tell someone you're a doctor, you're already "more prestigious" than the vast majority of the population.

If you're trying to say prestige in GENERAL matters, then yea sure it does.

Syndicate said:
Patients don't care but chicks do!
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hmm.. no.
 
dyspareunia said:
If you care about your level of prestige amongst colleagues you are probably normal. If you care about your level of prestige amongst the "average person off the street" then you are dumb. What's that saying.. something about the lion doesn't concern itself with the opinion of the sheep.
Click to expand...
Personally I'd rather care about my skills and talent amongst my colleagues than the level of prestige associated with my degree name or school name. Being the better doctor/engineer/whatever is what really matters.
 
studentp0x said:
Personally I'd rather care about my skills and talent amongst my colleagues than the level of prestige associated with my degree name or school name. Being the better doctor/engineer/whatever is what really matters.
Click to expand...

Better "skills and talent" usually leads to higher prestige amongst colleagues. And if not prestige, then jealousy, but I'd argue the two can go hand-in-hand.

But that's my point. Prestige matters when those judging prestige are informed. It doesn't matter when they are the "average person off the street" who is uninformed.

Sometimes being the "better" whatever doesn't matter. Being the one with more connections and a better title or degree from a better school opens doors even if your skills aren't as good as the guy from no-name university with no connections.
 
I think people misunderstood my thread. I'm saying that the debates that have been had on SDN are meaningless. MD does provide better opportunities for specialties, but what I'm simply saying is that prestige is for the most part irrelevant because you have no one to impress besides potential employers and your mom.
 
studentp0x said:
I think people misunderstood my thread. I'm saying that the debates that have been had on SDN are meaningless. MD does provide better opportunities for specialties, but what I'm simply saying is that prestige is for the most part irrelevant because you have no one to impress besides potential employers and your mom.
Click to expand...

So you started another thread, which inevitably started another debate, in order to stop all future debates?

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studentp0x said:
What the average person thinks is prestigious and smart: a Ph.D (the most well known degree) or just being called Dr. X
Click to expand...

When I told the high school students I tutor that I want to be a doctor, they thought I wanted to be the principal. They think that's the same as the "man what drive the sick truck when they sistuh be havin' a baby."

Yes. The guy who runs your school is a physician who does surgery on the week ends. Although, with the teen pregnancy rate around here, a principal who's an obstetrician might be a good combination.
 
If your statement of "average people off the street" refers to someone from anywhere in the world, then yes, probably, they don't know what a MD is, because they don't speak English.

The average person in the United States owns at least a television, is bombarbed with MD in entertainment media, and therefore knows what a MD is. I'm not sure in what world a person can know what a "Harvard" and "Ph.D" are, but not "MD".
 
for the average person: MD=podiatrist=dentist=chiropractor and they have never heard of DO
 
Burla said:
for the average person: MD=podiatrist=dentist=chiropractor and they have never heard of DO
Click to expand...

Also, psychiatrist=psychologist=psychoanalyst, and you determine your specialty prior to applying. So after four years bam you're an interventional cardiologist or a pulm/ccm/interventional pulmonologist, it's that simple! The nurses I work with ask me all time what type of med school I'm going to (i.e., are you going to a psych med school, a GI med school, a surgery med school, etc.). It's pretty pathetic, especially coming from people in the medical field.
 
WillburCobb said:
Also, psychiatrist=psychologist=psychoanalyst, and you determine your specialty prior to applying. So after four years bam you're an interventional cardiologist or a pulm/ccm/interventional pulmonologist, it's that simple! The nurses I work with ask me all time what type of med school I'm going to (i.e., are you going to a psych med school, a GI med school, a surgery med school, etc.). It's pretty pathetic, especially coming from people in the medical field.
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You would think that people would pay attention, at least a little, to the world around them.
 
I just love how the knuckleheads who relentlessly argue on these meaningless threads act like they can read the minds of the layman population of the United States of America. Because, you know, that one guy you work with represents the 300 million others in this country.

Anyone notice that every single argument is pretty much an anecdote translated as fact? Do you know what that means? It means these arguments can never, ever, ever end. Because people will always come back with a, "well, I work in an ED, and here it's different."
 
Finches said:
I just love how the knuckleheads who relentlessly argue on these meaningless threads act like they can read the minds of the layman population of the United States of America. Because, you know, that one guy you work with represents the 300 million others in this country.

Anyone notice that every single argument is pretty much an anecdote translated as fact? Do you know what that means? It means these arguments can never, ever, ever end. Because people will always come back with a, "well, I work in an ED, and here it's different."
Click to expand...

But when it comes from well over 20 people who work in the medical field, and have for quite some time, it really makes you wonder.
 
studentp0x said:
I think people misunderstood my thread. I'm saying that the debates that have been had on SDN are meaningless. MD does provide better opportunities for specialties, but what I'm simply saying is that prestige is for the most part irrelevant because you have no one to impress besides potential employers and your mom.
Click to expand...

Some of us want to go into competitive fields and academic residencies, so prestige is in fact very important to our goals.
 
phunky said:
Some of us want to go into competitive fields and academic residencies, so prestige is in fact very important to our goals.
Click to expand...

That's totally fine, but I think at least in pre allo a lot of people forget that not everyone is like that.
 
touchpause13 said:
That's totally fine, but I think at least in pre allo a lot of people forget that not everyone is like that.
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This is very true. I think a lot of people also don't realize that academia isn't what they want until they are partway through medical school or even residency. Academia looks great when you're basically living vicariously through other peoples' CVs as a premed, but when you make it far enough and realize that these folks are often taking a huge paycut and have a bunch of extra BS they have to deal with it looks a little less appealing.
 
WillburCobb said:
Also, psychiatrist=psychologist=psychoanalyst, and you determine your specialty prior to applying. So after four years bam you're an interventional cardiologist or a pulm/ccm/interventional pulmonologist, it's that simple! The nurses I work with ask me all time what type of med school I'm going to (i.e., are you going to a psych med school, a GI med school, a surgery med school, etc.). It's pretty pathetic, especially coming from people in the medical field.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? That's so depressing
 
@studentp0x

Isn't there an element of propaganda in making threads like these?

For example, if no one thought there was any difference between an MD or a DO then making this thread is pointless. If however you made the thread to "convince"(lol) people that they are in fact equivalent, isn't that an acknowledgement they are in fact not the same thing in at least in an SDN'ers perception.

So your attempt comes off as an "insidious" attempt to convince the pre-med-allo population of SDN that the general population of the country doesn't consider your MD to be any better than the DO, based off on your "experience" with 300 million Americans.

So, I think saying "take a hike" at this juncture would be appropriate. You haven't brought to bear any data to prove your point, nor are you addressing how the differences in training contribute to differences or similarities, nor how patient outcomes for both MD's or OD's don't differ. This thread offers nothing substantial, merely an attempt at rabble-rousing.
 
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