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I'm just gonna say that she reminds me of 1Path. That is all.
MD vs. DO thread-- Final Resting Place
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It's no big deal IMO. I'd have to agree with Megboo that this is likely a troll at work. Anyone who's been around, like DancinRN appears to have been, knows the terms and is fully aware that "osteopathy" is a misnomer and not used, save for those new users who are not up to speed. There are too many veiled jabs in the posts and the behavior validates a general lack of integrity under the guise of an "honest" assessment. I also think it would be safe to question the validity of any and all of the information that has been presented by this user.
I can comfortably state that I wouldn't want someone of such poor/deceptive character to represent the medical profession to any measurable extent. That said, there's a long road ahead and the "system" has a way of weeding out those not suited to the profession; I'm prepping my FMG contacts at St. George that there will likely be an available seat at GW in a couple years, wide open and waiting for a suitable transfer student.
I can comfortably state that I wouldn't want someone of such poor/deceptive character to represent the medical profession to any measurable extent. That said, there's a long road ahead and the "system" has a way of weeding out those not suited to the profession; I'm prepping my FMG contacts at St. George that there will likely be an available seat at GW in a couple years, wide open and waiting for a suitable transfer student.
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so listen to this: i was waiting oustide my molec bio class today and this neurotic indian girl was bitching about how she is getting 40's in orgo and will prolly end up with a D. She was talking to another girl about MD schools and she said that she wont know what to do if she doesnt get in. I told her, "why dont you apply to DO, they sometimes look beyond grades?" so she replies, "why would i want to become a fake Dr.?" so i replied, "well with a D in orgo you wont become any doctor."
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hiya
1. I am not a fake person!!! or deceptive!! this is just getting out of hand!!! i am real person with real experiences that just happen to contradict yours!!...this is how u deal with ppl who don't fully agree with you??
2. so last night i went to work and had a convo with one of my DO doctors...who i get along with very well...he told me i was wrong... not my opinion...because he does get alot of prejudices! he says he always will..its the nature of the game... you will have to accept that one day!
but he said i shouldn't have posted it here! he sees how it may come across as pretentious and judgmental to total strangers who don't know me... esp because now i have MD acceptances...but then he added i was putting too much thought into this and i am waay too old for this kind of thing... and i had him read your responses (it was a slow night🙂) he said this was creepy and couldn't believe how much you were really upset about it🙂
...i really did have good intentions.. i thought out right posting...I am not bashing DOs would have prevented such a harsh back lash..but apparently not...I guess I can't really blame you
3. despite how upsetting some of your comments really are... I am sorry...i really didn't mean it badly...but good luck in your careers
okay NOW i am done...you can go on insulting me if you want...but i am not reading anymore or responding anymore...
P.S. how was I supposed to know you don't use the word osteopathy??? (hypothetical question) my goodness...
Mel🙂
1. I am not a fake person!!! or deceptive!! this is just getting out of hand!!! i am real person with real experiences that just happen to contradict yours!!...this is how u deal with ppl who don't fully agree with you??
2. so last night i went to work and had a convo with one of my DO doctors...who i get along with very well...he told me i was wrong... not my opinion...because he does get alot of prejudices! he says he always will..its the nature of the game... you will have to accept that one day!
but he said i shouldn't have posted it here! he sees how it may come across as pretentious and judgmental to total strangers who don't know me... esp because now i have MD acceptances...but then he added i was putting too much thought into this and i am waay too old for this kind of thing... and i had him read your responses (it was a slow night🙂) he said this was creepy and couldn't believe how much you were really upset about it🙂
...i really did have good intentions.. i thought out right posting...I am not bashing DOs would have prevented such a harsh back lash..but apparently not...I guess I can't really blame you
3. despite how upsetting some of your comments really are... I am sorry...i really didn't mean it badly...but good luck in your careers
okay NOW i am done...you can go on insulting me if you want...but i am not reading anymore or responding anymore...
P.S. how was I supposed to know you don't use the word osteopathy??? (hypothetical question) my goodness...
Mel🙂
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Incredible. Now she's wrong, but we're the ones who are creepy. 
Those of us who stand up to people bashing DOs. Considering this is a written forum, that's how we have to communicate.
BTW - you didn't realize that your DO friend called you creepy, too. I mean, you DID post in this thread quite a bit, too.
I could probably convince a friend of mine that a stranger from the internet was creepy too if I fed him/her the right lines.
Those of us who stand up to people bashing DOs. Considering this is a written forum, that's how we have to communicate. BTW - you didn't realize that your DO friend called you creepy, too. I mean, you DID post in this thread quite a bit, too.
I could probably convince a friend of mine that a stranger from the internet was creepy too if I fed him/her the right lines.
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Mods...Could we please get a true end to this thread? It really serves no purpose but to keep up imaginary conflicts. I mean MDs, DOs, RNs, LPNs, DPM, DDS, DMD, EMT, EMT-Ps all work together in the whole of healthcare. I vote that these kinds of threads should be banned from here on out. They are really ridiculous and childish. If SDN is to be considered a good thing for Pre-meds, Med students, and physicians then it should maintain somewhat of a reputation, and this isn't good. That's just my two cents and I hope this thread, along with others like it, die forever.👎
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I have to agree that this thread is out of hand and it would beneficial to all to have it shut down. DancinRN has been the bigger person and apologized to all that she offended. Let's just leave her alone. Oh yeah, and congrats on all of your acceptances DancinRN, that's an amazing accomplishment!!
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Incredible. Now she's wrong, but we're the ones who are creepy.
BTW - you didn't realize that your DO friend called you creepy, too. I mean, you DID post in this thread quite a bit, too.
I could probably convince a friend of mine that a stranger from the internet was creepy too if I fed him/her the right lines.
LOL.
Taking this malarkey way too seriously, everyone.It's the classic "victim" mentality, really. Some people like to lash out and then they "play victim" when they encounter retort, even if it isn't hostile.
It's all DRAMA and that's what was intended; played right into that hand.
Neurotic episodes and all, this thread should stay open for the sake of entertainment! 👍
Where's a TexTri remark when you need one? I'll even take one from Meatwad!
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There is nothing inherently wrong with this thread. The thread is not "ridiculous or childish". I'm not sure that the same can be said about all the posts in it, however.
This is Pre-Osteo. Those of you who may have been here for 5 years might know a lot about osteopathic medicine, but not everyone does. Each new person in this forum deserves to have a place where they can come in and calmly discuss the differences between MD and DO if there truly are any.
Disagreement is not bad. Insults and attacks ARE bad. If everyone just agreed then the whole place would be boring and nobody would want to be here anyway. Can you imagine how many people would go to a movie about a boy and his dog who played in the filed all day and were always happy? Not many...but if the boy's father was a CIA agent and the boy was kidnapped to lure in the father, nobody could find the boy and the dog ended up saving the day...? Well...that might be a little more exciting.
Right now this thread has gotten to be a bit exciting. There are people coming by just to watch how silly some people will act and how far they will go. Is that good? No, not when you consider that the people perpetuating the silliness are supposed to be pre-professional students and should know better. If it was the WWE... then it would be exciting.
The easiest thing to do to stop this thread from spiralling into madness is to just stop posting in it if you don't have something good to say. Use the "ignore" button if there are people that you don't want to hear from. If you insult someone however, you will receive an infraction. If you want to keep insulting people you will keep receiving infractions until you are ultimately banned? Is that what you all want?
Give the silly stuff a rest and let people with legitimate questions and concerns have a place to find their answers.
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That's an idealistic thought, Masta. Lest we not forget what SDN is really. Granted, there is some valuable information to be had here, especially post-premie forum, but it is even more so a place for idle chatter. No one should take any of this seriously and I find it humorous when the "wars" of irrational emotions start. It's not a cross-section of the healthcare profession in the least and it sure shouldn't be given any credence.
This is just glorified internet relay chat (IRC), and that's entertainment.
Is there anybody out there?
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It is unfortunate that this particular DO has experienced "a lot of prejudices." However, and I think you'll agree, that one person (or possibly even 2 or 3 that you may have encountered) does not represent the whole profession. It is not fair to state that we ALL will have to accept/face these prejudices. This may or may not be the case. To disseminate this information as gospel is misleading. Medicine is fluid, and currently there are more DOs in training that ever before. From the DOs and residency PDs (allopathic) I have spoken with, the gap appears to be greatly narrowing between the two groups. Likewise, I would imagine it will be harder to discriminate against a growing body of osteopathic physicians (though definitely not impossible). Personally, I'm thrilled to have the chance to train in medicine and work my tail off to be good doctor. I do believe you are ultimately responsible for making yourself an excellent physician, not the letters after your name. Will it keep me out of certain residencies? Possibly. Will it make me less of a doctor than my allopathic counterpart? Doubtful. It's a slippery slope to qualify one school's education better than another. However, I do believe that whether I'm discriminated against or not, I know it won't be because of my insecurities but rather someone else's. Good luck to you on your path!!
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Yup, so done with this thread. It's apparent to a lot of pre-osteo people that there was some DO-bashing. There is nothing new to add to the Md vs. DO argument from a pre-med perspective, but the mods feel the need to keep MD vs. DO threads open for their amusement.
It's been fun kids, but as soon as I get put down for defending DOs by a DO-in-training, I'm out.
It's been fun kids, but as soon as I get put down for defending DOs by a DO-in-training, I'm out.
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What he said. The MODS will not succumb to whining, people! 👍
Everyone, try to have a wonderful day and forget the trivial.
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I have always liked your descriptive logic SCPOD and couldn't agree with you more. The DO I shadowed said that she had never once in 25 years of practice felt any sort of discrimination and my state has a very low percentage of DOs, relatively. My uncle MD who lives in South Carolina went on and on to my grandmother and mom about how I will be discriminated against and that I should not go DO if I can avoid it. Obviously, there has got to be some bias somewhere but I really don't care. It doesn't make me upset or hurt my feelings or make me defensive. So what, some people think less of DOs and some people hate MDs, who cares!!
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I would have said, "Well with a D in orgo , you won't become any doctor, especially mine ".
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it is alright, btw, congratulations on all your acceptances, I hope you become a good doctor and hopefully we all get to work to make the patients' lives a little easier in the future.
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i love beer
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Seriously ... you just love the drama. I don't trust anything you say, and you're doing all this to cause a fuss. We need to just stop feeding into this BS ... DancinRN is either horribly immature, lying, or a combination of both.
You need to understand that on a pre-osteo board ... your misguided opinions are going to be questioned/bashed. Deal with it or don't post. BUT ... don't come here saying "I really don't want drama, I'm a good person ... I talked to a DO last night and he says he hates his life and shouldn't go DO and everyone is going to hate me because I have my MD acceptances! Happy giggles smiley (now everything is better ...)
See where I'm going with this. Don't expect the attitude towards you to change if you post like that ... though I think you are enjoying it so, we (myself included) should just stop feeding into it
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I would be willing to bet that doctor I just saw today crack open the chest of a 23 year old male that was shot 3 times to restart his heart felt the absolute same satisfaction as every other doctor in that trauma room, even though he happens to have DO next to his name. I bet that kids parents REALLY wish he was an MD instead.
I see what you are saying DANG, but as someone mentioned before, you see this DO/MD argument almost exclusively with Pre-Meds, who have no idea what it means to be a doctor and practice medicine. Speak to doctors about the subject, you will rarely, if ever, find this DO vs MD battle in any healthcare setting.
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Who cares? I never understood people who cry about wanting to have threads closed because they don't like them. If you don't like it, don't read it. Stop being a baby.
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We can't lock this thread ... it's one of those 'sever the hand to save the arm' situations. We have ONE thread on 'DO vs MD/ I'm postive I want to do x, are DOs allowed to do this ...' instead of nine on the home page alone. It's necessary ...
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Speaking of Dr. Kirby (as your avatar shows), I am very interested to know what you people might think would change if he were to become the president of the AOA (which would probably never happen)...I bet he can get DO recognition 100 fold in just a matter of one year as opposse to how the AOA does it now....or would it be totally the opposite??...just wondering...
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I think that depends on a lot of things. However, Dr. Kirby seems to have a lot of his plate (two derm clinics, chain of dr tattoff, skin care line, investiments in clubs/restuarants, and his tv spots) ... so I don't know if he would be ready to become the prez of the AOA. I personally think it would be awesome if he just explained it on Dr 90210 (I'm really not sure if it ever came up on big brother). I mean there is no reason to make a big deal out of it (clearly MD = DO if he's a cosmetic dermatologist on this huge show), but it would just be a good opportunity to throw a DO advertisement in there 👍
Jack Daniel
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If I could have my choice of celebrity advocates--I'd take Oprah over Dr. Kirby. Legions of people hang by that woman's every word.
Jack Daniel
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I always read these threads and am always intrigued with the posts I read. I figured I would add my 2 cents. First off, I am planning on going to KCUMB next Fall. I come from a family of osteopathic physicians and have always felt more aligned with their philosophy. That said, there is essentially no difference (yes, I know there are some like omm) between MD and DO in my personal opinion. I feel people have a tendency to confuse osteopath with osteopathic physician. There is a difference. For those who feel DO's are inferior to MD's I suggest re-evaluating your position. First, the number of applicants as well as overall stats (GPA MCAT) are increasing each year for medical schools. Those that would have been accepted to MD schools five years ago are now looking at DO schools. Why? Because in the end you become a DOCTOR. In regards to the stigma, my dad did have a struggle. He wound up going for a Ph.D. and made it into an allopathic residency. This is not so much the case anymore. If you check out Loyola's IM residency info, you will find a DO as Chief Resident. The point is, whether you are an MD or DO you are still a doctor subjected to the same standards all physicians are subjected to.
So, I feel that I can give a little insight onto this debate as I go to Michigan State which houses both MD and DO programs.
I suppose I'm a little biased, I'm going to MSUCOM, but when I decided to apply to med school, I was all for MD. I accepted the offer of admission before hearing from any of the allopathic schools I applied to because I did more research and realized that DO was for me.
Anyway, I honestly believe that the MD vs. DO thing is perpetuated by med students. UofM med students put down MSUCHM students because most couldn't get into UofM and then MSUCHM students claim that MSUCOM students aren't really doctors. Then the DO students get defensive and we all know where that gets us. Every med school in the US will be in one of these three positions.
We all know the benefits of being a MD. Honestly though, few patients are going to ask you what degree you hold when you introduce yourself as Dr. John Doe. You're a doctor and that's what they generally need at the moment.
I know a lot of students, many of which I am good friends with, that are entering both MSUCHM and MSUCOM and the deciding factor for me was looking at what my future colleagues would be like. In general, the COM students seem much more laid-back.
In the end, do research into both programs and visit both schools. If the only reason why you would choose MD over DO is because of the letters at the end of your name, I would suggest that you reevaluate why you want to be a doctor. I plan on caring a lot more about my patients than the degree I received. Sorry if that's harsh but I would not want a doctor treating me that only became a doctor so they could look good and be respected (those should be bonuses, not aims).
I suppose I'm a little biased, I'm going to MSUCOM, but when I decided to apply to med school, I was all for MD. I accepted the offer of admission before hearing from any of the allopathic schools I applied to because I did more research and realized that DO was for me.
Anyway, I honestly believe that the MD vs. DO thing is perpetuated by med students. UofM med students put down MSUCHM students because most couldn't get into UofM and then MSUCHM students claim that MSUCOM students aren't really doctors. Then the DO students get defensive and we all know where that gets us. Every med school in the US will be in one of these three positions.
We all know the benefits of being a MD. Honestly though, few patients are going to ask you what degree you hold when you introduce yourself as Dr. John Doe. You're a doctor and that's what they generally need at the moment.
I know a lot of students, many of which I am good friends with, that are entering both MSUCHM and MSUCOM and the deciding factor for me was looking at what my future colleagues would be like. In general, the COM students seem much more laid-back.
In the end, do research into both programs and visit both schools. If the only reason why you would choose MD over DO is because of the letters at the end of your name, I would suggest that you reevaluate why you want to be a doctor. I plan on caring a lot more about my patients than the degree I received. Sorry if that's harsh but I would not want a doctor treating me that only became a doctor so they could look good and be respected (those should be bonuses, not aims).
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I was talking to two kids I interviewed with at a DO school on Tuesday... Both of them were like "yeah who is that DancinRN chick, what is her problem?" lol. I'm amazed at how many people actually read these threads.
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I see, and you're sure that a USMD will allow you to work 'globally'?
I ask this because I've done a bit of research on international practice rights, and while everyone assumes that the USMD is universal, it's not. If perhaps you had a few countries in mind that you want to practice in, it would be an easier question to answer.
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That's because there is no resting place for the undead.
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Nah. I think it's more of a premedical phenomenon. If nothing else, most medical students are way too busy to think those thoughts. I've never encountered what you speak of. However, this is not to say there aren't the immature among us. It's just not prevalent, at least in my experience.
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I hope this thread never dies. It's completely cathartic.
Plus, it's a convenient place to merge the inevitable jillion other "DO v. MD" threads and their derivatives.
The issue is not going to go away, regardless of what happens on SDN.
Again, I have been accepted to both allo and osteo. In the end, my decision will be determined by factors such as geography, tuition, and family considerations, not which two letters are conferred by the degree.
Plus, it's a convenient place to merge the inevitable jillion other "DO v. MD" threads and their derivatives.
The issue is not going to go away, regardless of what happens on SDN.
Again, I have been accepted to both allo and osteo. In the end, my decision will be determined by factors such as geography, tuition, and family considerations, not which two letters are conferred by the degree.
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Cathartic for whom?
DOs who are looking for anything to tell off an MD?
MDs who are looking for anything to put down a DO?
I think it stinks, and I rank MD vs. DO threads up there with affirmative action threads.
DOs who are looking for anything to tell off an MD?
MDs who are looking for anything to put down a DO?
I think it stinks, and I rank MD vs. DO threads up there with affirmative action threads.
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md vs do is a good question to someone who doesn't know the difference. Does anyone know the difference in number of slots available for each school my understanding is that DO's have significantly less slots available, in comparison to MD. If this has been covered please include link as I couldn't find when doing a quick search.
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If you are looking at collective seats in medical schools, of course there are more MD seats. There are more than 130 LCME (MD) accredited schools in the US and canada, compared to like 23 DO schools. Simple math.
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the thing that always strikes me about these threads is the level of antagonism alot of people have towards one another.
regardless of what path you choose, DO or MD, in the end we are licensed physicians. there are differences, and pluses and minuses to both, and they've been hashed out a gazillion times over by people with a lot or little practical knowledge about the situation.
so my question to all the posters is this:
once we are all out of school, going through residency, and bump into each other in the hallways, are we still going to have these conversations?
will you be the physician who refuses to work with somebody else in residency or beyond because they went to an osteopathic or allopathic school?
physicians are supposed to work COOPERATIVELY with the people around them (nurses, NPs, PAs, social workers, PhDs, secretaries, other physicians - DO or MD - at all levels) to ensure the health and well-being of their patients, not antagonize each other. just my $0.02.
regardless of what path you choose, DO or MD, in the end we are licensed physicians. there are differences, and pluses and minuses to both, and they've been hashed out a gazillion times over by people with a lot or little practical knowledge about the situation.
so my question to all the posters is this:
once we are all out of school, going through residency, and bump into each other in the hallways, are we still going to have these conversations?
will you be the physician who refuses to work with somebody else in residency or beyond because they went to an osteopathic or allopathic school?
physicians are supposed to work COOPERATIVELY with the people around them (nurses, NPs, PAs, social workers, PhDs, secretaries, other physicians - DO or MD - at all levels) to ensure the health and well-being of their patients, not antagonize each other. just my $0.02.
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The biggest problem facing premeds is not about "Will you discriminate" , I think the problem is about , "will anyone else discriminate" . I have to say, until now, no health professional from my personal experience (that I have spoken to) has given me the idea that I will be discriminated against in the future...except maybe I have been told that surgeons do discriminate- but there are osteopathic surgeons as well... it doesn't make sense.
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i would agree with that. i'm trying to get into the best medical school possible, and for me, that includes a host of characteristics, not just prestige or board scores. i dont care much particularly for the DO vs MD banter by the pre-meds, i'd much rather see us all invest this energy in volunteering, acing the interview, etc, to lock in the best acceptance possible.
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No we won't, simply because it won't be a pre-med that we bump into. Pre-meds still want to be the best and most respected at every single thing they do, from taking the biggest **** in the bathroom, to arguing for an extra point on a test that will bump their grade up from a 92 to a 93. The thing they don't realize is that while they might be in the top 10% of their undergrad class, they will be just average, if not below average in medical school with plenty of people who are smarter than them and work harder than them. That's when reality hits that just because they've wanted to be a radiologist their whole life it doesn't mean it will happen, regardless of whether they're at an MD school or DO school. That's officially when the MD vs DO
nonsense goes away and they finally just sit back and appreciate the fact that they're in any medical school.
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i know i won't, and i'm glad you won't, thank the Lord. i certainly hope more people heed that advice.
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If you guys wnat to keep DO discrimination at a minimum, then you need to wise the **** up and stop building dozens of new DO programs.
I mean seriously WTF is that going to do, other than worsen the current physician glut and FORCE residency slots to discriminate against you guys?
Keeping the # of med schools constant with a low proportion being DO programs means that DO folks can basically pass as equivalents tso MDs and get lost in the crowd.
Dozens of new MD and DO programs = huge oversupply which will inevitably lead to degree discrimination. Its the same reason why Harvard Law grads can work wherever they want but third tier trash schools can barely get their grads a job.
You want to see real DO discrimination, keep up this nonsense with building new DO programs every year. Trust me you guys will not like hte outcome of an oversupplied market because DOs will inevitably get the short end of the stick. Hell, even the lower tier MD programs will start to have problems.
I mean seriously WTF is that going to do, other than worsen the current physician glut and FORCE residency slots to discriminate against you guys?
Keeping the # of med schools constant with a low proportion being DO programs means that DO folks can basically pass as equivalents tso MDs and get lost in the crowd.
Dozens of new MD and DO programs = huge oversupply which will inevitably lead to degree discrimination. Its the same reason why Harvard Law grads can work wherever they want but third tier trash schools can barely get their grads a job.
You want to see real DO discrimination, keep up this nonsense with building new DO programs every year. Trust me you guys will not like hte outcome of an oversupplied market because DOs will inevitably get the short end of the stick. Hell, even the lower tier MD programs will start to have problems.
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well the purpose of a "doctor" is to treat people. There is a huge shortage of doctors wherever anyone goes, so when you say that adding more schools (and therefore more doctors) makes it more difficult for physicans to get a job is being proposterous. The fact of the matter is that the global population is not going to get any smaller unless a nuclear fallout occurs. If the population of people is going to exponentially increase, then the number of doctors should increase as well.
