MD vs. DO

[j306c954]

Hi all! So long story short, I applied for medical school this past year (MD program), and while I am still waiting to hear if I received an interview, I am pretty sure I will not get in (just trying to be realistic) due to my low MCAT (planning to retake still) and late application submission. The rest of my application (EC's, GPA, letters of rec, etc) are very strong, and I am now considering applying to a DO program this next time around.

I have done some research on the differences between MD and DO, but was just wondering if any of you could provide some input and possibly your reason for choosing a DO program vs. MD.

Thank you 🙂

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[el_duderino]

Well this is a topic I haven't seen before.

 

[AlteredScale]

Hi all! So long story short, I applied for medical school this past year (MD program), and while I am still waiting to hear if I received an interview, I am pretty sure I will not get in (just trying to be realistic) due to my low MCAT and late application submission. The rest of my application (EC's, GPA, letters of rec, etc) are very strong, and I am now considering applying to a DO program this next time around.

I have done some research on the differences between MD and DO, but was just wondering if any of you could provide some input and possibly your reason for choosing a DO program vs. MD.

Thank you 🙂

Being a DO will allow you to treat the patient holistically......




JK

Going to a MD program will make it easier for you to enter hyper-competitive specialty programs (neurosurgery, ENT, plastics) and will keep all doors open in terms of doing residency at hyper-competitive institutions such as NYP, WashU, NYU-Langone, Stanford, UCLA/UCSF, UofWash, MSKCC, B&W, MGH. It will also allow you to have more access to research since most MD programs are affiliated with strong research universities, so that will give you an edge should you decide to enter academic medicine.

These aspects that are "against" DO's is slowly shifting away honestly. Starting to see more and more DO's enter programs that before were inaccessible to them.

Both will allow you to become a doctor at the end of the day.

 

[referee3]

Hi all! So long story short, I applied for medical school this past year (MD program), and while I am still waiting to hear if I received an interview, I am pretty sure I will not get in (just trying to be realistic) due to my low MCAT and late application submission. The rest of my application (EC's, GPA, letters of rec, etc) are very strong, and I am now considering applying to a DO program this next time around.

I have done some research on the differences between MD and DO, but was just wondering if any of you could provide some input and possibly your reason for choosing a DO program vs. MD.

Thank you 🙂

Please use the search function. Or Google for that matter.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

.

 

[Xenoblade]

These aspects that are "against" DO's is slowly shifting away honestly. Starting to see more and more DO's enter programs that before were inaccessible to them.

.

proof plz

 

[AlteredScale]

proof plz

Speaking with 4th year DO's who are interviewing at programs in which the PD has specifically told them they have never interviewed a DO before.

USC has a DO PGY-1 on their IM house staff for the first time, class of 2017: http://www.uscimresidency.com/why-usc/house-staff

General discussion with program directors (fellowship level, endocrinology and GI) here at UCSD discussing an overall shift in accepting DO's as equals as supposed to perceiving them of lesser quality.

Now with that, I can't say DO's in general have their **** together and without standardized quality of clinical rotations, there will still be bias against them at certain programs.

 

[ananasmed]

Regardless of any issues osteopathic grads currently face/normal MD vs DO argument stuffs... OP has a 23 MCAT based on post history - probably a nonstarter for basically every medical school in the country. So. There's that.

 

[Xenoblade]

Speaking with 4th year DO's who are interviewing at programs in which the PD has specifically told them they have never interviewed a DO before.

USC has a DO PGY-1 on their IM house staff for the first time, class of 2017: http://www.uscimresidency.com/why-usc/house-staff

General discussion with program directors (fellowship level, endocrinology and GI) here at UCSD discussing an overall shift in accepting DO's as equals as supposed to perceiving them of lesser quality.

Now with that, I can't say DO's in general have their **** together and without standardized quality of clinical rotations, there will still be bias against them at certain programs.

DO's have been working in usc for years. YEARS. I don't see a significant change.

 

[AlteredScale]

DO's have been working in usc for years. YEARS. I don't see a significant change.

How do you know DOs have been working in USC for years?

To each their own I guess...

 

[j306c954]

Please use the search function. Or Google for that matter.

Already did both. Like I said, just gathering as much input and gaining more individual personal choices as I can. If you have already commented on this topic then I have probably seen it.

Regardless of any issues osteopathic grads currently face/normal MD vs DO argument stuffs... OP has a 23 MCAT based on post history - probably a nonstarter for basically every medical school in the country. So. There's that.

And how do you know that I do not plan on retaking the MCAT? Because I do, and have already started studying again. Sheesh I left SDN because of negative, unhelpful comments before. Asked a very simple question yet I get it again? I asked a simple question. Geez.

 

[j306c954]

Being a DO will allow you to treat the patient holistically......




JK

Going to a MD program will make it easier for you to enter hyper-competitive specialty programs (neurosurgery, ENT, plastics) and will keep all doors open in terms of doing residency at hyper-competitive institutions such as NYP, WashU, NYU-Langone, Stanford, UCLA/UCSF, UofWash, MSKCC, B&W, MGH. It will also allow you to have more access to research since most MD programs are affiliated with strong research universities, so that will give you an edge should you decide to enter academic medicine.

These aspects that are "against" DO's is slowly shifting away honestly. Starting to see more and more DO's enter programs that before were inaccessible to them.

Both will allow you to become a doctor at the end of the day.

Thank you for your helpful response!

 

[j306c954]

Please use the search function. Or Google for that matter.

I did both (as I mentioned, "already have done research"). I am just trying to gain as much information as possible. I see no harm in asking again to maybe gather some new or different responses.

 

[meliora27]

How do you know DOs have been working in USC for years?

To each their own I guess...

USC goes in waves. Several years ago, it was pretty common to see a few DO's in their IM housestaff, and then a couple years ago something may have changed and you didn't see any. Now it looks like they're trickling back in.

 

[Xenoblade]

How do you know DOs have been working in USC for years?

To each their own I guess...

look up pulm critical care/critical care for usc.

 

[el_duderino]

Already did both. Like I said, just gathering as much input and gaining more individual personal choices as I can. If you have already commented on this topic then I have probably seen it.

And how do you know that I do not plan on retaking the MCAT? Because I do, and have already started studying again. Sheesh I left SDN because of negative, unhelpful comments before. Asked a very simple question yet I get it again? I asked a simple question. Geez.

The question you asked gets asked and discussed literally every day.

 

[j306c954]

The question you asked gets asked and discussed literally every day.

If it bothers you so much, then just do no click on the thread 🙂

 

[el_duderino]

I'm not bothered. I'm trying to help you understand why people are not responding in the way you desire. It's because even a cursory search will turn up literally thousands of answers to your exact question.

 

[Anicetus]

Regardless of any issues osteopathic grads currently face/normal MD vs DO argument stuffs... OP has a 23 MCAT based on post history - probably a nonstarter for basically every medical school in the country. So. There's that.

OP can get into LUCOM with a 23. These days you can score below 50 percentile and easily get into a medical school. Albeit it won't be an MD, but who cares right? The talk around here is Worst DO school = Best DO school = Any MD school not in the top 50.

 

[meliora27]

The talk around here is Worst DO school = Best DO school = Any MD school not in the top 50.

And where exactly is this "around here"??

 

[meliora27]

I predict that this thread will soon degenerate into yet another MD vs. DO echo chamber...

 

[Anicetus]

And where exactly is this "around here"??

Pre-DO forums.

 

[meliora27]

Pre-DO forums.

Not exactly "expert consensus"...

 

[Anicetus]

Not exactly "expert consensus"...

What part do you disagree with? Everytime there is a "DO ranking" thread, the result is "There is no DO ranking list because they are all equal." Don't even get me started on when there is an MD vs DO thread. The threads usually end with "DO = Low MD since matching Derm is hard for Low MD's too" as if all else is equal.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

What part do you disagree with? Everytime there is a "DO ranking" thread, the result is "There is no DO ranking list because they are all equal." Don't even get me started on when there is an MD vs DO thread. The threads usually end with "DO = Low MD since matching Derm is hard for Low MD's too" as if all else is equal.

I dont believe the DO=Low MD part.

I'd wager that 99% of residency programs dont care which US MD school you come from as long as your have the resume/stats to back yourself up. If a guy from a low MD school has better stats than a guy from a top 10 MD school, I think (not 100% sure) that theyll take the guy from the low MD school. The only benefits i could think of for high MD are the big-name academic/university affiliations and more opportunities to do research in-school.

However, i dont think this is the case for DO vs low MD school students. In the match article i saw, DOs needed higher USMLE scores for the same fields.

That's just my take on it and i could be wrong.

I think it's more like low DO = high DO < low MD

From what I know, it's also absurdly hard for DOs to enter fields such as ENT and Urology.

 

[meliora27]

So long as the NRMP PD Survey shows that one of the factors that PD's weigh when selecting applicants for residency is being a graduate of a US Allopathic school, I know that Low Tier MD does not equal DO.

This in and of itself should be a HUGE wakeup call and a rallying cry for the AOA/AACOM btw.

 

[costales]

Well this is a topic I haven't seen before.

Nope.

 

[GUH]

So long as the NRMP PD Survey shows that one of the factors that PD's weigh when selecting applicants for residency is being a graduate of a US Allopathic school, I know that Low Tier MD does not equal DO.

This in and of itself should be a HUGE wakeup call and a rallying cry for the AOA/AACOM btw.

Explain the bolded statement. What should we be rallying for, specifically? How would this rallying cry affect the decisions of ACGME PDs, and what is your evidence that this would happen?

 

[meliora27]

Explain the bolded statement. What should we be rallying for, specifically? How would this rallying cry affect the decisions of ACGME PDs, and what is your evidence that this would happen?

To elucidate what it is about osteopathic education that makes it deemed inferior to that of an allopathic education so that allopathic education is preferred by some PD's so much so that it is listed as a factor in the NRMP data. Then, work on addressing those issues.

 

[GUH]

To elucidate what it is about osteopathic education that makes it deemed inferior to that of an allopathic education so that allopathic education is preferred by some PD's so much so that it is listed as a factor in the NRMP data. Then, work on addressing those issues.

Again,

1) How do you think this would affect the decision-making process of these ACGME PD's?
2) Why do you think this would affect the decision-making process of these ACGME PD's?

 

[meliora27]

Again,

1) How do you think this would affect the decision-making process of these ACGME PD's?
2) Why do you think this would affect the decision-making process of these ACGME PD's?

Concern: "Osteopathic education does not take place in academic medical centers"

Proposed Solution: New partnerships are forged so that more and more osteopathic students are completing the clinical training in an academic setting.

Possible Outcome: PD's doubts about the quality education, namely, not taking place in academic medical centers, possibly begins to slowly lessen

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

Concern: "Osteopathic education does not take place in academic medical centers"

Proposed Solution: New partnerships are forged so that more and more osteopathic students are completing the clinical training in an academic setting.

Possible Outcome: PD's doubts about the quality education, namely, not taking place in academic medical centers, possibly begins to slowly lessen

I dont think they have doubts about the quality of education.

I just think they prefer their own kind and the fact that some people associate MD with higher prestige

 

[GUH]

Concern: "Osteopathic education does not take place in academic medical centers"

Proposed Solution: New partnerships are forged so that more and more osteopathic students are completing the clinical training in an academic setting.

Possible Outcome: PD's doubts about the quality education, namely, not taking place in academic medical centers, possibly begins to slowly lessen

Is there any actual evidence or statement from any ACGME Program Director that increasing the number of osteopathic medical students who rotate at academic medical centers will convince ACGME PD's who previously rejected candidates for being DO's to consider them on an equal basis with MD's, or is this just speculation?
Also, do we have any measurement of the percent of DO's and MD's who rotate through academic medical centers?
I suspect that it's merely speculation, but would be genuinely interested to hear if you have any proof that what you're saying is true because I've heard others put forth the same theory.

 

[meliora27]

Is there any actual evidence or statement from any ACGME Program Director that increasing the number of osteopathic medical students who rotate at academic medical centers will convince ACGME PD's who previously rejected candidates for being DO's to consider them on an equal basis with MD's, or is this just speculation?
Also, do we have any measurement of the percent of DO's and MD's who rotate through academic medical centers?
I suspect that it's merely speculation, but would be genuinely interested to hear if you have any proof that what you're saying is true because I've heard others put forth the same theory.

In talking with a few PD's, they have raised the issue that one question with DO's is what is the caliber/rigor of their clinical education. Chief Residents have noted that there's a concern that a DO student may have only had office based preceptor experience in whatever field, and therefore really lacking when it comes to hospital based practices and struggle as an intern.

By selecting MD students, they know that they have done their rotations in teaching hospitals, have seen a decent breath of pathology, have worked on resident teams (actually a requirement of LCME accreditation btw), and programs know what they're getting into when they become interns/residents.

Granted, not all DO schools are equal when it comes to clinical education and there is certainly fourth year audition rotations where you can get some inpatient experience and make programs comfortable with your abilities and see if it's a good fit.

 

[D4C]

I think the more appropriate comparison now is newer MD schools that lack teaching hospital rotations. It gets overlooked frequently on here.

 

[meliora27]

I think the more appropriate comparison now is newer MD schools that lack teaching hospital rotations. It gets overlooked frequently on here.

I know that match lists aren't always the best litmus test, but I will be very interested to compare the match lists from the established DO schools with those of the brand new MD schools without attached university teaching hospitals.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

In talking with a few PD's, they have raised the issue that one question with DO's is what is the caliber/rigor of their clinical education. Chief Residents have noted that there's a concern that a DO student may have only had office based preceptor experience in whatever field, and therefore really lacking when it comes to hospital based practices and struggle as an intern.

By selecting MD students, they know that they have done their rotations in teaching hospitals, have seen a decent breath of pathology, have worked on resident teams (actually a requirement of LCME accreditation btw), and programs know what they're getting into when they become interns/residents.

Granted, not all DO schools are equal when it comes to clinical education and there is certainly fourth year audition rotations where you can get some inpatient experience and make programs comfortable with your abilities and see if it's a good fit.

Regardless of what they say, I think it's pretty obvious that they just want to keep DOs out.

Look at the facts -

A) The vast majority of ACGME programs take DOs. The DOs excel and complete the residencies. It's not like DOs cant handle the rigours of an allopathic residency and are dropping out like flies.

B) There are DOs who crush the USMLE, the standardized test that is meant to be the great equalizer. These programs that dont accept DOs take MDs with lower scores than DOs. It's obvious that the DO is educated enough. It makes not sense to say they arent if the DO student has the numbers on the equalizing test.

C) Many, including DOs, can rotate anywhere (i think). If an osteopath student rotated at the same place allopathic students rotated, the DO would still get barred from allo programs in question

D) it just so happens that the programs that dont take DOs are the most prestigious programs

Let's be real - the PDs just say that because it looks better than saying they are simply biased towards their own and want to maintain the utmost prestige.

 

[NurWollen]

I think the more appropriate comparison now is newer MD schools that lack teaching hospital rotations. It gets overlooked frequently on here.

Very true. And it's not just the newer MD schools, either. DO schools didn't invent preceptor-based rotations, and while the relative merits of preceptor- vs. ward- based rotations can certainly be debated, simply having a certain percentage of ward-based rotations does not a med school make.

 

[Mad Jack]

proof plz

My old top 10 is taking DOs when they never had before, both as residents and attendings. Not a lot of them, but infinitely more than zero.

 

[D4C]

Very true. And it's not just the newer MD schools, either. DO schools didn't invent preceptor-based rotations, and while the relative merits of preceptor- vs. ward- based rotations can certainly be debated, simply having a certain percentage of ward-based rotations does not a med school make.

I know that match lists aren't always the best litmus test, but I will be very interested to compare the match lists from the established DO schools with those of the brand new MD schools without attached university teaching hospitals.

That's something I have always been curious on. It's certainly obvious why a teaching hospital could leave a student better prepared for their intern year, but how much of an effect will have have after that? Who knows. I have met a bunch of old school MDs, and by old school I mean "DOs are quackers with a script pad", that truly believe ward rotations are inferior to preceptor style rotations.

 

[hallowmann]

My old top 10 is taking DOs when they never had before, both as residents and attendings. Not a lot of them, but infinitely more than zero.

This is the same trend I've seen in the last 5-10yrs as well. Competitive programs aren't kicking the door down for DOs, but I definitely see more of them in those programs than there used to be. Now whether this is because the current round of DOs are more competitive, the sheer increase in numbers means more are applying ACGME, so now PDs are actually seeing DO apps, or whatever reason doesn't really matter. DOs have been on a whole more accepted in more competitive programs (take note I did not say all or even the most competitive) now than they were 5-10yrs ago.

 

[hse]

Regardless of what they say, I think it's pretty obvious that they just want to keep DOs out.

Look at the facts -

A) The vast majority of ACGME programs take DOs. The DOs excel and complete the residencies. It's not like DOs cant handle the rigours of an allopathic residency and are dropping out like flies.

B) There are DOs who crush the USMLE, the standardized test that is meant to be the great equalizer. These programs that dont accept DOs take MDs with lower scores than DOs. It's obvious that the DO is educated enough. It makes not sense to say they arent if the DO student has the numbers on the equalizing test.

C) Many, including DOs, can rotate anywhere (i think). If an osteopath student rotated at the same place allopathic students rotated, the DO would still get barred from allo programs in question

D) it just so happens that the programs that dont take DOs are the most prestigious programs

Let's be real - the PDs just say that because it looks better than saying they are simply biased towards their own and want to maintain the utmost prestige.

you nailed it.. best summary ever
it's all about prestige and status... academic people in every field can be very petty and hypocritical... this phenomenon is not limited to medicine.

 

[TwinsFan]

Regardless of what they say, I think it's pretty obvious that they just want to keep DOs out.

Look at the facts -

A) The vast majority of ACGME programs take DOs. The DOs excel and complete the residencies. It's not like DOs cant handle the rigours of an allopathic residency and are dropping out like flies.

B) There are DOs who crush the USMLE, the standardized test that is meant to be the great equalizer. These programs that dont accept DOs take MDs with lower scores than DOs. It's obvious that the DO is educated enough. It makes not sense to say they arent if the DO student has the numbers on the equalizing test.

C) Many, including DOs, can rotate anywhere (i think). If an osteopath student rotated at the same place allopathic students rotated, the DO would still get barred from allo programs in question

D) it just so happens that the programs that dont take DOs are the most prestigious programs

Let's be real - the PDs just say that because it looks better than saying they are simply biased towards their own and want to maintain the utmost prestige.

This doesn't just apply to DO, many ultra prestigious program really do care what MD school you come from. At some point when you have to wade through hundreds of stellar apps pedigree makes the list. It doesn't excuse one from be stellar but it qualifies you for the "ivory tower" whether right or wrong. It's just how it is (on average)

 

[racerwad]

Regardless of what they say, I think it's pretty obvious that they just want to keep DOs out.

Look at the facts -

A) The vast majority of ACGME programs take DOs. The DOs excel and complete the residencies. It's not like DOs cant handle the rigours of an allopathic residency and are dropping out like flies.

B) There are DOs who crush the USMLE, the standardized test that is meant to be the great equalizer. These programs that dont accept DOs take MDs with lower scores than DOs. It's obvious that the DO is educated enough. It makes not sense to say they arent if the DO student has the numbers on the equalizing test.

C) Many, including DOs, can rotate anywhere (i think). If an osteopath student rotated at the same place allopathic students rotated, the DO would still get barred from allo programs in question

D) it just so happens that the programs that dont take DOs are the most prestigious programs

Let's be real - the PDs just say that because it looks better than saying they are simply biased towards their own and want to maintain the utmost prestige.

The PDs are just acknowledging that their students aren't allowed to apply and match to osteopathic residencies. I think once everyone is eligible to apply to all programs, they'll have less of a leg to stand on.

I doubt that there is any program where a DO with an amazing board score is being passed over for a less qualified MD, unless that program explicitly doesn't take DOs. It doesn't seem all that unfair to me. If you wanted equal footing, you should've gone to allopathic medical school.

 

[Xenoblade]

I think the more appropriate comparison now is newer MD schools that lack teaching hospital rotations. It gets overlooked frequently on here.

A lot of these newer md schools have decades of exp teaching clinicals to med students. decades.

Do some research. It is partly why they get accreditation so fast (well, md fast, not do fast-it's relative). What do these new do schools, like liberty, have? touro middleton is taking over an abandon hospital (I think), so they are starting over from scratch....ouch....and don't even get me started on azcom and u of a phoenix with the va hospital. there, everyone loses.

So there is definitely a gap in terms of clinical training in 9/10 do vs md schools. Just facts. Although, I will say that most pre clinical educations is more than up to par with mds (maybe better because do's will know their anatomy better on average), but that isn't what being a good doctor is about.

 

[Xenoblade]

Regardless of what they say, I think it's pretty obvious that they just want to keep DOs out.

Look at the facts -

A) The vast majority of ACGME programs take DOs. The DOs excel and complete the residencies. It's not like DOs cant handle the rigours of an allopathic residency and are dropping out like flies.

B) There are DOs who crush the USMLE, the standardized test that is meant to be the great equalizer. These programs that dont accept DOs take MDs with lower scores than DOs. It's obvious that the DO is educated enough. It makes not sense to say they arent if the DO student has the numbers on the equalizing test.

C) Many, including DOs, can rotate anywhere (i think). If an osteopath student rotated at the same place allopathic students rotated, the DO would still get barred from allo programs in question

D) it just so happens that the programs that dont take DOs are the most prestigious programs

Let's be real - the PDs just say that because it looks better than saying they are simply biased towards their own and want to maintain the utmost prestige.

this.

we all just have to just accept that do's will play second fiddle to mds for now.

I met a med director who trains a bunch of dos and is higher than a pd and thus has a say on the rank list. It is one of the most, if not the most, do friendly state. He/She was ragging on do's because they are largely seen as inferior candidates that couldn't get into md. ouch.

 

[koan]

Part of the reason this conversation always devolves into speculation and anecdotes is the lack of hard data. Residency programs don't release their rank list or scoring algorithm for candidates, and so it becomes incredibly difficult to glean whether Joe DO with his 240 was ranked lower than Jane MD with her 230 strictly because of degree. Confounding variables: Jane goes to Howard and Joe goes to PCOM; they are applying to IM; Jane has better LORs but Joe has a few publications. All we see is the resident roster and whether or not they have matched a DO in the past few years. That tells us nothing about the cohort of candidates the program interviewed.

The one bit of data that would be useful to this conversation that we do have is the % of DO matched into each specialty for the past few years. If I had more time I would tally it up -- curious to know if there has been much of an increase. We can also piece together where candidates are being offered interviews...the anesthesia forums have a spreadsheet going with Step scores and # / location of invites.

Programs definitely care about prestige, and their resident roster is one measure of that. The number of IMG and DO, and even which MD programs their residents graduated from all influence the public impression of their competitiveness. A small minority of places would never take even a true rockstar DO, but how many rockstars do we produce? As cliquesh and others have noted, few DO students cross the 230 mark on Step 1, which is just about average. Add to that mediocre research opportunities, sometimes questionable clinical training (see the story by sylvanthus about getting precepted for surgery by a nurse) and less famous LOR writers...and you have a recipe for a ho-hum candidate. That so many DOs have matched at great ACGME programs over the years and excelled speaks to the scrappy nature of a group of people who, for whatever reason, didn't attend a USMD school but decided to go for it anyway.

For my part, anecdotally, I have encountered a number of chief residents along the interview trail who are DO. At not too shabby places like UWash and Cleveland Clinic. But I'm not kidding myself into thinking that I'm being ranked the same as Jane MD who has a mirror image of my application with a different degree.

 

[GUH]

Part of the reason this conversation always devolves into speculation and anecdotes is the lack of hard data. Residency programs don't release their rank list or scoring algorithm for candidates, and so it becomes incredibly difficult to glean whether Joe DO with his 240 was ranked lower than Jane MD with her 230 strictly because of degree. Confounding variables: Jane goes to Howard and Joe goes to PCOM; they are applying to IM; Jane has better LORs but Joe has a few publications. All we see is the resident roster and whether or not they have matched a DO in the past few years. That tells us nothing about the cohort of candidates the program interviewed.

The one bit of data that would be useful to this conversation that we do have is the % of DO matched into each specialty for the past few years. If I had more time I would tally it up -- curious to know if there has been much of an increase. We can also piece together where candidates are being offered interviews...the anesthesia forums have a spreadsheet going with Step scores and # / location of invites.

Programs definitely care about prestige, and their resident roster is one measure of that. The number of IMG and DO, and even which MD programs their residents graduated from all influence the public impression of their competitiveness. A small minority of places would never take even a true rockstar DO, but how many rockstars do we produce? As cliquesh and others have noted, few DO students cross the 230 mark on Step 1, which is just about average. Add to that mediocre research opportunities, sometimes questionable clinical training (see the story by sylvanthus about getting precepted for surgery by a nurse) and less famous LOR writers...and you have a recipe for a ho-hum candidate. That so many DOs have matched at great ACGME programs over the years and excelled speaks to the scrappy nature of a group of people who, for whatever reason, didn't attend a USMD school but decided to go for it anyway.

For my part, anecdotally, I have encountered a number of chief residents along the interview trail who are DO. At not too shabby places like UWash and Cleveland Clinic. But I'm not kidding myself into thinking that I'm being ranked the same as Jane MD who has a mirror image of my application with a different degree.

The NRMP PD survey actually does quantify factors used to rank candidates, and "US allopathic graduate" is a significant factor for many of them. That is a factor independent of board scores, school prestige, and LOR's.

 

[GUH]

So there is definitely a gap in terms of clinical training in 9/10 do vs md schools. Just facts.

If that's just a fact, would you please care to prove it?