md vs. do??

[navs]

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Hi guys,

I don't mean this to start a war between the two, but I had someone who recently ask me if there is comp. in getting private practice jobs in fields like anesth. when it comes down to a md vs. do who both came from the same program.

It made me think. I would figure that MD groups would definetly want the MD considering he is one of their own and vice-versa.

U think that is true?? Have u heard any of ur md or do friends complaining of this on the job hunt??

Thanks.

 

[Hedwig]

Navs,

I'm sure there are cases like that, but they're few and far between. I've never heard a story of that MD vs. DO crap taking place anywhere other than among premeds.

Getting a job after residency depends overwhelmingly on the program you're graduating from, not the degree you hold. Plus, DOs who are proficient in manipulation are in very high demand.

Remember, the MD degree is not always "prestigious." There are lots of MDs from Harvard, but there are also lots of MDs from Carribean schools and other foreign programs of questionable quality and reason for being (usually only to make a lot of money); you can actually get an MD degree ONLINE through some International University of Health Sciences or whatever it's called. Then you have many MD schools in the United States that are infinitely easier to get into than osteopathic schools. The University of Vermont and Mercer, for instance, as well as the MD schools in Puerto Rico and the traditionally black MD schools, i.e. Howard, Meharry, Morehouse. So generalizations about the MD degree are not easy to make. Thus, I wouldn't worry about being hired over an MD, all else being equal. Fundamentally, there are different kinds of MD degrees, if that makes any sense.

When you think about it, can you imagine the DOs who are now categorical medicine residents at Hopkins and Beth Israel-Deaconness getting anything but fair and equitable consideration? It seems highly unlikely.

 

[Justin]

I would assume there are many variables taken into consideration, but I highly doubt that most people really give a flying hoot if you are a DO or a MD. At that point, I believe, it is more about recommendations and location of residency.

 

[Dr JPH]

Hedwig

Although I agree with your statements regarding the MD/DO debate, I feel I should correct you with one thing.

University of Vermont is FAR from easy to get into.

In fact, it has one of the lowest acceptance rates of any U.S. medical school (3.3%).

Again, good statements overall.

Just make sure you do a quick search before making "factual" arguments.

🙂

 

[pags]

I applied to both Vermont and Howard and didn't even get as much as an interview for two years. Somehow, NYCOM snapped me up.

As far as getting a job in the real world, I'm positive that there are solely MD practices out there, for whatever diabolical reason, will pick an MD over a DO for the sake of their "perceived" reputation; a very similar situation to what is going on in radiology this year. Obviously, where you did your residency and the quality of your recommendations will, by far, mean much more to the majority of practices than the degree issue. However, at present time, I gaurantee this discrimination extends beyond the pre-med arena. It's up to our generation of physicians to see past this MD/DO quagmire and realize that "perceived" status is subordinate to proper health care.

 

[Hedwig]

I apologize. I got that information from here--

<a href="http://www.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/healthstats/natmedstatsgpa.html" target="_blank">http://www.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/healthstats/natmedstatsgpa.html</a>

and I realize now that it's 5 years old and probably highly inaccurate. Sorry!

 

[navs]

I completely agree it should matter how strong a canidate is when it comes to getting a job, BUT...

How many DO's do u see mingling with groups that are all MDs?? In my experience, ALMOST NEVER.

So, even though u would think it shouldn't matter, obviously it does, considering there isn't much mingling... well at least not yet!!

Good luck.

 

[titan]

Originally posted by navs:
[QB]I completely agree it should matter how strong a canidate is when it comes to getting a job, BUT...

How many DO's do u see mingling with groups that are all MDs?? In my experience, ALMOST NEVER.

So, even though u would think it shouldn't matter, obviously it does, considering there isn't much mingling... well at least not yet!!

navs,

The only DO that I know works in a group with MD's. My mom is an oncology nurse with U.S. Oncology and the group of doctors she works for consists of three MD's and one DO. They are all medical oncologists. She is the first to tell me that with their group, the DO is the busiest b/c he is the best with the patients. Most of their cases are terminal and, apparently, the DO shows more care and compassion than the MD's. I'm sure it's not like this everywhere, but in my experience it is.

titan

 

[Hedwig]

I've had similar experiences. For instance, one of the busiest ENT practices in the Philly region consists of one MD and one DO. The largest cardiology practice in Philadelphia / north Delaware is about 70% MD and 30% DO. Listen, I'm sure the bias does exist in many places, but it's not as rampant or inhibiting as some people make it out to be.

It's true that DOs often get excluded from the really super hot allopathic residencies, but I've also heard stories of MDs being excluded because they're not AOA or because they're women or because they're not white. I've also heard that the largest impediment to DOs getting competitive allopathic slots is the fact that DOs usually don't have any research experience. Crappy indeed, but it happens.

 

[pags]

Yup, no research experience here. I hate it.

 

[electra]

personally, I think DOs are more comfortable working with DOs when it comes to groups. Similar philosophies, etc, make for easier work relationships. However, if you look up different medical groups, many have DOs working with other primary care physicians.

 

[Crazed]

TITAN, does your mom work in New Jersey, by any chance? Probably not, but I was just wondering - I mean, what would be the chances...

 

[jimjones]

Then you have many MD schools in the United States that are infinitely easier to get into than osteopathic schools. The University of Vermont and Mercer, for instance, as well as the MD schools in Puerto Rico and the traditionally black MD schools, i.e. Howard, Meharry, Morehouse. ••

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😕 😕 😕 😕
<img src="graemlins/pissy.gif" border="0" alt="[Pissy]" />

 

[Diane L. Evans]

Titan "How many DO's do u see mingling with groups that are all MDs?? In my experience, ALMOST NEVER." You truly are naive then.

I am working with a DO who is the only cardiologist in a group of 14MD's he's highly respected and in fact a senior member. This is NOT an isolated incidence.

Remember not to let your ego get the best of you.

Many places look not at your degree but where you did training and fellowship. Thus, it is a matter of expertise not the letters after your signature.

 

[titan]

Originally posted by Crazed:
•TITAN, does your mom work in New Jersey, by any chance? Probably not, but I was just wondering - I mean, what would be the chances...•••

Crazed,

Nope she works in Texas....sorry!

titan

 

[titan]

Originally posted by Diane L. Evans:
•Titan "How many DO's do u see mingling with groups that are all MDs?? In my experience, ALMOST NEVER." You truly are naive then.

I am working with a DO who is the only cardiologist in a group of 14MD's he's highly respected and in fact a senior member. This is NOT an isolated incidence.

Remember not to let your ego get the best of you.

Many places look not at your degree but where you did training and fellowship. Thus, it is a matter of expertise not the letters after your signature.•••

Uhhhh....Diane L. Evans, what are you talking about???? I didn't post the "How many DO's do u see mingling with groups that are all MD's? In my experience ALMOST NEVER." I believe it was...............navs who posted this statement.

I, in fact, agree with you!

titan

 

[deleted6669]

Another anecdotal stat...I work with a group of 22 ER physicians. 21 MD, 1 DO (the chief).

 

[Voxel]

I usually do not post in these discussions. But please do not make generalizations about how patients prefer DOs over MDs because DOs have more compassion, etc.

As for discrimination, it exists in every form where the status quo is challenged. Try joining some very prestigious practices in manhattan, LA, SF. It will be tough not only for MDs, but DOs or anyone who does not have a brand name residency and letters of recommendations. It's that simple. Sad, but true.