MD vs. DO

[bertz413]

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OK...what are your thoughts on this....I have heard many things from many different types of people...but what do you guys think? Are MD's "better" (and I use better in a light sense) or do you think being a DO is better. I have researched the cirriculum differences....but i have also heard that there might be a stigma attached to the DO (don't hate me....I am not saying this...this is what I have heard from other people!!!!) I am just honestly confused...maybe naive...to know what really is best....is it really just a personal choice? I am not trying to praise one degree over the other...I am just looking for for people's opinionS! 😱 😛
There really isn't a huge difference is there?

 

[thinknofu3]

Here's a good website to check out for this question:
http://www.medschoolready.com/app/schoolconsiderations.asp

They list different attributes of the schools. While which is "better" is of course a matter of opinion, there is a distinct difference in average stats between them, so take from that what you will. You also might want to post/search the pre-osteopathics forums for information as well. Hope that helps!

 

[Wookey]

It's hard to get into competitive specialties like Rad, Derm, Surg as a DO. Part of the reason is the stigma as you mentioned and that most DO schools offer little research to make an applicant competitive. But DO's make pretty good primary care docs i would think because that seems to be their focus.

 

[MollyMalone]

These threads tend to turn into flamefests and as such I'm warning everyone beforehand -- keep it professional and polite. Trash talking and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

 

[Beau Geste]

Oh junior member -

Did you try a search on this topic? It's one that has been hashed out time and again on the board and most of the time starts a flame war, especially when posting on the pre-allo board.

 

[DrBowtie]

Oh junior member -

Did you try a search on this topic? It's one that has been hashed out time and again on the board and most of the time starts a flame war, especially when posting on the pre-allo board.

Unfortunately the search is down.🙁

Check out the pre-osteopathic FAQ.

 

[dr.z]

Here's a good website to check out for this question:
http://www.medschoolready.com/app/schoolconsiderations.asp

They list different attributes of the schools. While which is "better" is of course a matter of opinion, there is a distinct difference in average stats between them, so take from that what you will. You also might want to post/search the pre-osteopathics forums for information as well. Hope that helps!

There's an error with that web site. DOs take COMLEX not COMPLEX.

 

[riff raff]

This should go over well...


**gets popcorn**

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

OK...what are your thoughts on this....I have heard many things from many different types of people...but what do you guys think? Are MD's "better" (and I use better in a light sense) or do you think being a DO is better.

You're not going to get a complete answer on either the pre-MD or the pre-DO forum. Take what you learn here and ask around in the medical community where you volunteer/shadow. If you seek enough opinions, you should get a decent representation of the situation.

 

[UMP]

DO's = the URM's of Medicine
you can take that down any path you want, but I have two in mind

 

[sassykru]

I guess as most people said, it is a matter of opinion. My experience is this...I am finishing up my mph at UNTHSC in Fort Worth which means we have the North Texas Osteopathic Medical School here. And for me I didn't really know a lot about osteopathic medicine until I actually got here. They pride themselves with the whole idea that they practice a more holistic approach, which I guess they do. The students here seem to be happy with thier education and thier future prospects...I have a couple of friends who went to undergrad with me and got accepted here. I will say though that this wasn't the first choice for the people I know. For most of them this was the only school in Texas, they got accepted to so they came. Interestingly, I've talked with a non-medical school professor here, when I was applying to medical school and he basically flat out told me that he completly and totally understand the primary care aspects of the school...but as far as the whole holistic aspect goes he's not quite sure about it. In my opinion, if you really understand osteopathic medicine and you're completly sure that this is the kind of medicine you want to practice...go for it. But if you're just thinking of it as an alternative, just in case you don't get accepted into an allopathic school than you might want to really think about it. There is a lot of stigma still attached to osteopathic medicine and until more people understand it, you'll probably have to always keep explaining to people exactly what it is that you do. But hey ....to each it's own.

 

[kalix]

their

I guess as most people said, it is a matter of opinion. My experience is this...I am finishing up my mph at UNTHSC in Fort Worth which means we have the North Texas Osteopathic Medical School here. And for me I didn't really know a lot about osteopathic medicine until I actually got here. They pride themselves with the whole idea that they practice a more holistic approach, which they I guess they do. The students here seem to be happy with thier education and thier future prospects...I have a couple of friends who went to undergrad with me and got accepted here. I will say though that this wasn't the first choice for the people I know. For most of them this was the only school in Texas, they got accepted to so they came. Interestingly, I've talked with a non-medical school professor here, when I was applying to medical school and he basically flat out told me that he completly and totally understand the primary care aspects of the school...but as far as the whole holistic aspect goes he's not quite sure about it. In my opinion, if you really understand osteopathic medicine and you're completly sure that this is the kind of medicine you want to practice...go for it. But if you're just thinking of it as an alternative, just in case you don't get accepted into an allopathic school than you might want to really think about it. There is a lot of stigma still attached to osteopathic medicine and until more people understand it, you'll probably have to always keep explaining to people exactly what it is that you do. But hey ....to each it's own.

 

[mtDNA]

Well, Im gonna weigh in on this one a bit. FIrst of all, I would like to point out that the stigma attached to osteopathic medicine is much much harsher in premed circles than amongst actual physicians and laypeople. I have shadowed ER docs, family practice physicians, and orthopedic surgeons, and in all of these fields I found the same thing: MDs and DOs practicing together, with equal status. Believe me, the MD vs DO thing is pretty much just a premed issue. The only realistic consideration that you need to make when you choose whether to apply DO or not is: do you want an extremely competitive residency?
DOs do have a very tough time matching into some programs because there few osteopathic programs out there. Keep in mind, I am talking only about VERY competitive residencies, such as derm, neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, etc. Moderately competitive residencies are very realistic for motivated DO students, especially ER and anesthesiology. General surgery also has a fair number of DO spots, so I wouldnt go so far as to say that DO route=impossible to match surgery. Also, keep in mind that DOs have their own residencies and hospitals, so it is not like they are constantly being discriminated against when applying for jobs or residency.
My strategy when I applied this year was this: If I got accepted MD, I would have gone for that, but if not, I would have no problem going DO route (much better than waiting another year for the same thing). I got into MSU College of Osteopathic medicine, and that is where I am going. I have had no problems with stigma so far, besides when I am talking to other premeds who dont know much about DO route. Laypeople do not know, or care about the difference between MD and DO. In fact, I dont even bring it up anymore, I just say I am going to be going to med school at MSU (which is a completely true statement). Hope this helps, good luck.

 

[Law2Doc]

Believe me, the MD vs DO thing is pretty much just a premed issue.

Actually it's more of a regional thing. There are pockets of the country where there are no DOs (yet). I've worked at several hospitals which have none. I've also met many older physicians who remember the time, in the not too distant past (the 80's), when DOs were not, in fact, professionally equivalent to MDs, were not permitted to practice at allopathic hospitals, etc., and thus those older docs are still resistant to consider DOs equal. So no, it's really not just a premed thing. But the world is gradually changing, older docs are retiring, and eventually the stigma will pass. I suspect there will be a merger of the two fields in our lifetime.

 

[MossPoh]

It's hard to get into competitive specialties like Rad, Derm, Surg as a DO.

I have heard this and I defintley don't doubt it...but I seem to see a LOT of DO Rads....At one time 3 of the 5 guys at a hospital near me were DOs...2 of them were from Nova....don't know if that is particulary strong in rads or what.

 

[bertz413]

Hi All:

Thanks to those with the sincere replies...YES...as mentioned...I have researched this area and was looking for other people's opinions....There was absolutely NO intent for this to become a war or bash zone....thanks again for your opinions.

 

[Addb]

The ER I work at has one DO on staff, and the only time anyone even notices is when he has to pick his name from the other Doc's/PA's in the electronic script printer-outer.

And there is a practicing Neurosurgeon DO with an office about 10 minutes from my house.

 

[Uncle_Tbag]

I work with two DOs, one a PCP, the other a neurologist. They are both excellent physicians and I wouldn't hesitate to have them treat me or any family.

From what I know, it really boils down to one issue: matching. I don't think there are any stigmas in hospitals or practices and once you get your desired residency, it won't matter a bit. But being less competitive for certain residencies can seemingly be a HUGE issue.

 

[docolive]

Well, Im gonna weigh in on this one a bit. FIrst of all, I would like to point out that the stigma attached to osteopathic medicine is much much harsher in premed circles than amongst actual physicians and laypeople. I have shadowed ER docs, family practice physicians, and orthopedic surgeons, and in all of these fields I found the same thing: MDs and DOs practicing together, with equal status. Believe me, the MD vs DO thing is pretty much just a premed issue. The only realistic consideration that you need to make when you choose whether to apply DO or not is: do you want an extremely competitive residency?
DOs do have a very tough time matching into some programs because there few osteopathic programs out there. Keep in mind, I am talking only about VERY competitive residencies, such as derm, neurosurgery, plastic surgery, ENT, etc. Moderately competitive residencies are very realistic for motivated DO students, especially ER and anesthesiology. General surgery also has a fair number of DO spots, so I wouldnt go so far as to say that DO route=impossible to match surgery. Also, keep in mind that DOs have their own residencies and hospitals, so it is not like they are constantly being discriminated against when applying for jobs or residency.
My strategy when I applied this year was this: If I got accepted MD, I would have gone for that, but if not, I would have no problem going DO route (much better than waiting another year for the same thing). I got into MSU College of Osteopathic medicine, and that is where I am going. I have had no problems with stigma so far, besides when I am talking to other premeds who dont know much about DO route. Laypeople do not know, or care about the difference between MD and DO. In fact, I dont even bring it up anymore, I just say I am going to be going to med school at MSU (which is a completely true statement). Hope this helps, good luck.

thanks so much for the clarification. I am applying to DO schools as a back-up plan-- considering I want to be specialized-- but if not, I am sure I can find a happy place as a DO. I just hope for either allo or osteo at this point.

 

[DoctorPardi]

The other big thing about DO's is a lot of people have never heard of them. Everyone knows what a "doctor" is and assumes the doctor to be an MD. The other day I noticed the doctor treating me was a DO and asked my mom (who took me to the doctor because I was too sick to drive) if she had ever heard of a DO before. She didn't know what a DO was and said, "well is she a real doctor?"

So I think a lot of people just don't know DO's even exist and if they have some vague knowledge of them, they probably think they are a step below MD. I don't think you'll have many problems with these people though, because with a simple explanation their fears can be remedied, but some people will always be upset they aren't seeing a "real doctor".

That "possible" hostility and the fact that I might specialize into surgery is the reason I am choosing MD over DO.

 

[sassykru]

The other big thing about DO's is a lot of people have never heard of them. Everyone knows what a "doctor" is and assumes the doctor to be an MD. The other day I noticed the doctor treating me was a DO and asked my mom (who took me to the doctor because I was too sick to drive) if she had ever heard of a DO before. She didn't know what a DO was and said, "well is she a real doctor?"

So I think a lot of people just don't know DO's even exist and if they have some vague knowledge of them, they probably think they are a step below MD. I don't think you'll have many problems with these people though, because with a simple explanation their fears can be remedied, but some people will always be upset they aren't seeing a "real doctor".

That "possible" hostility and the fact that I might specialize into surgery is the reason I am choosing MD over DO.

I agree. And another thing...and anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or if you have more info on this, but I think the whole D.O. thing is mostly here in the U.S. I don't even know if other countries have D.O schools. And quite naturally, that'll will change over time as osteopathy get's more recognition and more people become aware of it.

 

[mtDNA]

I agree. And another thing...and anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or if you have more info on this, but I think the whole D.O. thing is mostly here in the U.S. I don't even know if other countries have D.O schools. And quite naturally, that'll will change over time as osteopathy get's more recognition and more people become aware of it.

I've never heard of D.O. schools outside of the U.S., but I do know that there are already many other countries that grant full practice rights to D.Os. I saw a list of them at one point, don't remember where though. I didn't care that much though anyway, because I am sure I will always live in the U.S.

 

[MSc44]

It's hard to get into competitive specialties like Rad, Derm, Surg as a DO. Part of the reason is the stigma as you mentioned and that most DO schools offer little research to make an applicant competitive. But DO's make pretty good primary care docs i would think because that seems to be their focus.

what if u have a significant amount of research before you obtain the DO degree, a graduate degree, and a publication in a respectable journal..........think that may help getting a competative spot?????????

any ideas!!!

 

[TypeA]

Oh junior member -

Did you try a search on this topic? It's one that has been hashed out time and again on the board and most of the time starts a flame war, especially when posting on the pre-allo board.

Yeah, no kidding. I smell a troll-in-training.

 

[OSUdoc08]

OK...what are your thoughts on this....I have heard many things from many different types of people...but what do you guys think? Are MD's "better" (and I use better in a light sense) or do you think being a DO is better. I have researched the cirriculum differences....but i have also heard that there might be a stigma attached to the DO (don't hate me....I am not saying this...this is what I have heard from other people!!!!) I am just honestly confused...maybe naive...to know what really is best....is it really just a personal choice? I am not trying to praise one degree over the other...I am just looking for for people's opinionS! 😱 😛
There really isn't a huge difference is there?

With the exception of those DO's who go into family medicine and practice OMM, they are exactly the same.

 

[noonday]

This should go over well...


**gets popcorn**

**brings a six-pack, sits in the lounge chair placed well back from where the flames will start soon**

oh no. not again.

 

[FenderHM]

This thread seems pretty legit... so I'll actually drop my two cents:

I think in the next 25 years the DO philosophy of holistic medicine is going to become the standard and the norm and very much mainstream medicine. Allopathic medicine's philosophy is old and antiquated and dying as it is too engrained in treating symptoms instead of causes and pushing pills instead of talking with patients to get to the real roots of their medical problems. DO schools (correct me if I'm wrong I'm not a DO student!) teach their physicians to see beyond lab results and signs/symptoms to the person and the life behind them. I think osteopathic medicine is ahead of its time and that time is coming soon.

That said, we live in a world of conventions and conventional medicine is still considered allopathic. I guess my point is that I think currently osteopaths are still not quite respected by the older medical community as much as allopaths but because their philosophy may lead to better medicine they soon will be...

btw I'm not a troll I'm allopathic rising MS1

 

[moose9781]

**brings a six-pack, sits in the lounge chair placed well back from where the flames will start soon**

oh no. not again.

Is it just me - or does it seem like on many of these threads there is more talk of the "flames" that are about to come rather than actual flames?

 

[Taus]

This might be the most constructive, unbiased md/do thread I've ever seen in the pre-allo forum.....up to this point there has been some pretty good advice

 

[MollyMalone]

Is it just me - or does it seem like on many of these threads there is more talk of the "flames" that are about to come rather than actual flames?

Preventive medicine. That's where it's at, baby!

😎 😉

 

[newbie1kenobi]

This thread seems pretty legit... so I'll actually drop my two cents:

I think in the next 25 years the DO philosophy of holistic medicine is going to become the standard and the norm and very much mainstream medicine. Allopathic medicine's philosophy is old and antiquated and dying as it is too engrained in treating symptoms instead of causes and pushing pills instead of talking with patients to get to the real roots of their medical problems. DO schools (correct me if I'm wrong I'm not a DO student!) teach their physicians to see beyond lab results and signs/symptoms to the person and the life behind them. I think osteopathic medicine is ahead of its time and that time is coming soon.

That said, we live in a world of conventions and conventional medicine is still considered allopathic. I guess my point is that I think currently osteopaths are still not quite respected by the older medical community as much as allopaths but because their philosophy may lead to better medicine they soon will be...

btw I'm not a troll I'm allopathic rising MS1

It appears that most allopathic schools are recognizing and addressing this issue of providing holistic medicine, that there would eventually be no differences between M.D. and D.O. training in the future.

 

[OSUdoc08]

It appears that most allopathic schools are recognizing and addressing this issue of providing holistic medicine, that there would eventually be no differences between M.D. and D.O. training in the future.

The MD schools won't have the 4 semesters of OMM + clinical rotations in OMM, so it will still be different.

 

[FenderHM]

The MD schools won't have the 4 semesters of OMM + clinical rotations in OMM, so it will still be different.

whats OMM? osteopathic manipulative medicine?

 

[DoctorPardi]

The MD schools won't have the 4 semesters of OMM + clinical rotations in OMM, so it will still be different.

OSUdoc can you just give us MD hopefuls a quick run down of what OMM is. I mean I know it has something to do with feeling and manipulating patients with your hands, but other than that I am lost. Without having to send me to a website, just toss me a quick explanation.

 

[OSUdoc08]

OSUdoc can you just give us MD hopefuls a quick run down of what OMM is. I mean I know it has something to do with feeling and manipulating patients with your hands, but other than that I am lost. Without having to send me to a website, just toss me a quick explanation.

OMM = is basically like a mix of physical therapy, massage therapy, and chiropractic medicine, along with some other things tossed in.

It is quite simply the diagnosis and treatment of the parts of the body innervated by somatic nerves. This includes the musculoskeletal system and lymphatic system, as well as soft tissues/fascia.

Treatments are aimed at basically improving range of motion and returning homeostasis to the body, as well as influencing somatovisceral and viscerosomatic reflexes, and autonomic tone.

Here are a few examples:

1. A left shoulder with poor range of motion is treated with techniques to lengthen the muscle and improve ROM, just like a PT would do.

2. A sacrum and pelvis are misaligned from fall, interfering with gait. A technique is used to restore symmetry to these areas, much like a chiropractor would do.

3. An ICU patient has poor lymphatic flow and chest congestion. Manipulation of the soft tissues and fascia of the body can help restore flow of lymph in areas of constriction.

4. A patient with tension headaches recieves treatment of the neck musculature, improving their symptoms, much like a massage therapist would do.

---The difference between osteopathic physicians and these other healthcare providers is that actual medical diagnoses are made and the patient can recieve immediate relief and treatment in addition to the traditional procedures or protocol, such as pharmacology.

 

[DoctorPardi]

OMM = is basically like a mix of physical therapy, massage therapy, and chiropractic medicine, along with some other things tossed in.

It is quite simply the diagnosis and treatment of the parts of the body innervated by somatic nerves. This includes the musculoskeletal system and lymphatic system, as well as soft tissues/fascia.

Treatments are aimed at basically improving range of motion and returning homeostasis to the body, as well as influencing somatovisceral and viscerosomatic reflexes, and autonomic tone.

Here are a few examples:

1. A left shoulder with poor range of motion is treated with techniques to lengthen the muscle and improve ROM, just like a PT would do.

2. A sacrum and pelvis are misaligned from fall, interfering with gait. A technique is used to restore symmetry to these areas, much like a chiropractor would do.

3. An ICU patient has poor lymphatic flow and chest congestion. Manipulation of the soft tissues and fascia of the body can help restore flow of lymph in areas of constriction.

4. A patient with tension headaches recieves treatment of the neck musculature, improving their symptoms, much like a massage therapist would do.

---The difference between osteopathic physicians and these other healthcare providers is that actual medical diagnoses are made and the patient can recieve immediate relief and treatment in addition to the traditional procedures or protocol, such as pharmacology.

Excellent job of explaining it, thank you!

 

[newbie1kenobi]

The MD schools won't have the 4 semesters of OMM + clinical rotations in OMM, so it will still be different.

I guess I was referring to the philosophy of the "holistic approach," not thinking about the additional training in OMM. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Good thread! 👍

 

[bertz413]

Yeah, no kidding. I smell a troll-in-training.

I am no troll, thank you.

 

[zach1201]

Correct me if I'm wrong then. What I can gather from this thread is that the MAJOR differences are the clinical approaches DO's take towards medicine (e.g. a more holistic approach) and the quality of residencies that an MD can achieve compared to a DO.

If I missed anything major, please do tell.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Correct me if I'm wrong then. What I can gather from this thread is that the MAJOR differences are the clinical approaches DO's take towards medicine (e.g. a more holistic approach) and the quality of residencies that an MD can achieve compared to a DO.

If I missed anything major, please do tell.

Incorrect. DO's can enter any of the same residencies that MD's can.

 

[strawberryfield]

This might be the most constructive, unbiased md/do thread I've ever seen in the pre-allo forum.....up to this point there has been some pretty good advice

agreed. 👍

 

[Orthodoc40]

Actually it's more of a regional thing. There are pockets of the country where there are no DOs (yet). I've worked at several hospitals which have none. I've also met many older physicians who remember the time, in the not too distant past (the 80's), when DOs were not, in fact, professionally equivalent to MDs, were not permitted to practice at allopathic hospitals, etc., and thus those older docs are still resistant to consider DOs equal. So no, it's really not just a premed thing. But the world is gradually changing, older docs are retiring, and eventually the stigma will pass. I suspect there will be a merger of the two fields in our lifetime.

Also there was a time YEARS ago when they were not paid equivalent salaries as MD's. But I believe that was corrected in the legal system some time ago. Still, I'm sure that fact is part of the history of unwarranted stigma attached to the letters.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Incorrect. DO's can enter any of the same residencies that MD's can.

Yah but I don't know too many DO's that match into a top ortho residency or anything!!

 

[OSUdoc08]

Yah but I don't know too many DO's that match into ortho at HSS or anything!!

I don't know what HSS is, but there are plenty of other residencies which are equivalent, I'm sure.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Also there was a time YEARS ago when they were not paid equivalent salaries as MD's. But I believe that was corrected in the legal system some time ago. Still, I'm sure that fact is part of the history of unwarranted stigma attached to the letters.

According to many of the patients I have spoken to who have switched to DO's as their PCP's instead of MD's, the stigma is actually attached to the MD letters.

 

[snobored18]

According to many of the patients I have spoken to who have switched to DO's as their PCP's instead of MD's, the stigma is actually attached to the MD letters.

Here we go....it was only a matter of time wasn't it????

 

[USArmyDoc]

According to many of the patients I have spoken to who have switched to DO's as their PCP's instead of MD's, the stigma is actually attached to the MD letters.

OSUDoc....while I am a future DO (most likely), the truth is that the stigma is attached to the DO letters more than the MD letters. However, as you eluded too, I think that changes after they come incontact with a DO.


Keep up the good posts!

 

[USArmyDoc]

Here we go....it was only a matter of time wasn't it????

I know rightttttt

 

[dbth77]

damn OSUDoc, that md rejection must still sting

to the OP, these facts are undeniable, but i'm sure i'll be banned for posting them:

it is much easier to get into a D.O. school, the majority of people who attend D.O. schools didn't get into m.d. schools, and most D.O.'s go into primary care because it is much harder for D.O.'s to get competitive allopathic residencies.

That is all