MD vs. DO

[strawberryfield]

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damn OSUDoc, that md rejection must still sting

to the OP, these facts are undeniable, but i'm sure i'll be banned for posting them:

it is much easier to get into a D.O. school, the majoirty of people who attend D.O. schools didn't get into m.d. schools, and most D.O.'s go into primary care because it is much harder for D.O.'s to get competitive allopathic residencies.

That is all

oh wow... now we are ALL so enlightened... what would we have ever done without your post??? 👎

 

[STUCKinUCR]

damn OSUDoc, that md rejection must still sting

to the OP, these facts are undeniable, but i'm sure i'll be banned for posting them:

it is much easier to get into a D.O. school, the majoirty of people who attend D.O. schools didn't get into m.d. schools, and most D.O.'s go into primary care because it is much harder for D.O.'s to get competitive allopathic residencies.

That is all

we had a perfectly good thread without the attacks, but i guess useless posts are a way of life at SDN

my question actually had to do with international recognition. Are DO's recognized internationally like the MD is, or not? And if so, does anyone have a list of countries that do recognize the DO?

thanks in advance

 

[stoic]

md vs. do is such a load of premed crap that once you get past that stage, you can't hardly believe how little it matters.

that's the truth folks. there may still be a little bit if bias in terms of matching the most competative specialties... BUT if you are a DO and rock the USMLE, you can do every bit as a much as if you had an MD behind your name and the same USMLE score.

 

[stoic]

we had a perfectly good thread without the attacks, but i guess useless posts are a way of life at SDN

my question actually had to do with international recognition. Are DO's recognized internationally like the MD is, or not? And if so, does anyone have a list of countries that do recognize the DO?

thanks in advance

it depends on the country. there used to be a list in one of the DO forums stickied in an FAQ. lets all go look and see if it's still there.

race 'ya back with the link.

 

[OSUdoc08]

damn OSUDoc, that md rejection must still sting

to the OP, these facts are undeniable, but i'm sure i'll be banned for posting them:

it is much easier to get into a D.O. school, the majority of people who attend D.O. schools didn't get into m.d. schools, and most D.O.'s go into primary care because it is much harder for D.O.'s to get competitive allopathic residencies.

That is all

Not really, since my school is better than most MD schools anyway.

Thanks for the personal attacks, as always.

 

[dbth77]

oh wow... now we are ALL so enlightened... what would we have ever done without your post??? 👎

sorry if I point out the negatives, we wouldn't want to actually give the OP all the info or anything...

 

[dbth77]

Not really, since my school is better than most MD schools anyway.

Thanks for the personal attacks, as always.

haha, you're school is better than most M.D. schools? you attacked M.D.'s first, but i'm sure you feel more comfortable being the victim

 

[stoic]

DO international practice rights: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

some countries that won't give DO's a permanent license will let DO's practice during medical mission trips (at least that's what i've read on here before...)

 

[WestTexasRambler]

damn OSUDoc, that md rejection must still sting

to the OP, these facts are undeniable, but i'm sure i'll be banned for posting them:

it is much easier to get into a D.O. school, the majoirty of people who attend D.O. schools didn't get into m.d. schools, and most D.O.'s go into primary care because it is much harder for D.O.'s to get competitive allopathic residencies.
That is all

Pre-med applying to both DO and MD schools.

Is it really that it is much harder for DO's to get these residencies because they have the title of "DO" or because of the current entrance/ranking standards being slightly lower therefore giving way, at least to some extent, to those with slightly less ability in the given measures ie test taking, intelligence, pick a parameter......?

That is convoluted as hell so I hope it comes off ok.

 

[OSUdoc08]

haha, you're school is better than most M.D. schools? you attacked M.D.'s first, but i'm sure you feel more comfortable being the victim

I didn't "attack" anyone.

Continue with your delusions.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Pre-med applying to both DO and MD schools.

Is it really that it is much harder for DO's to get these residencies because they have the title of "DO" or because of the current entrance/ranking standards being slightly lower therefore giving way, at least to some extent, to those with slightly less ability in the given measures ie test taking, intelligence, pick a parameter......?

That is convoluted as hell so I hope it comes off ok.

It's not really difficult for a DO to get a residency in any field as long as they apply themselves.

 

[stoic]

haha, you're school is better than most M.D. schools? you attacked M.D.'s first, but i'm sure you feel more comfortable being the victim

actually, his school is better than a lot of MD schools. it's stats are better than it's state MD school. which stats? all of them. probably better than my state MD school stat's, too.

i think OSU passed 100% of test takers on the USMLE last year... and I don't think any MD schools did.

 

[AngryBaby]

Pre-med applying to both DO and MD schools.

Is it really that it is much harder for DO's to get these residencies because they have the title of "DO" or because of the current entrance/ranking standards being slightly lower therefore giving way, at least to some extent, to those with slightly less ability in the given measures ie test taking, intelligence, pick a parameter......?

That is convoluted as hell so I hope it comes off ok.

You hit the nail on the head my friend. I had to read it twice to make sure I understood it but I agree 100%.

 

[AngryBaby]

actually, his school is better than a lot of MD schools. it's stats are better than it's state MD school. which stats? all of them. probably better than my state MD school stat's, too.

i think OSU passed 100% of test takers on the USMLE last year... and I don't think any MD schools did.

Children, children, we were doing so well. We've come too far to get this nasty and pointless...

 

[dbth77]

Pre-med applying to both DO and MD schools.

Is it really that it is much harder for DO's to get these residencies because they have the title of "DO" or because of the current entrance/ranking standards being slightly lower therefore giving way, at least to some extent, to those with slightly less ability in the given measures ie test taking, intelligence, pick a parameter......?

That is convoluted as hell so I hope it comes off ok.

combo of both, old school types just stick with the m.d. because it's the more known commodity, but the fact that it is easier, in many cases significantly easier, to get into D.O. schools is the reason many programs won't take D.O.'s. I take stock in test scores and gpa, and many residency directors do also.

 

[AngryBaby]

combo of both, old school types just stick with the m.d. because it's the more known commodity, but the fact that it is easier, in many cases significantly easier, to get into D.O. schools is the reason many programs won't take D.O.'s. I take stock in test scores and gpa, and many residency directors do also.

And all allopathic resident program directors put a very heavy emphasis on the board scores and clinical grades as opposed to MD vs. DO. School reputation is important, but allo vs. osteo isn't the most important aspect of that reputation...ability of graduating med students (eg residents they produce) is.

 

[WestTexasRambler]

You hit the nail on the head my friend. I had to read it twice to make sure I understood it but I agree 100%.

Yeah it made my head spin when I was trying to read it. Anyone want to help me with my PS? 😉

 

[dbth77]

actually, his school is better than a lot of MD schools. it's stats are better than it's state MD school. which stats? all of them. probably better than my state MD school stat's, too.

i think OSU passed 100% of test takers on the USMLE last year... and I don't think any MD schools did.

tell me his school's stats and I will proceed to show you they are not better than most M.D. schools. I know this because not one D.O. school has stats better than most M.D. schools

 

[skypilot]

combo of both, old school types just stick with the m.d. because it's the more known commodity, but the fact that it is easier, in many cases significantly easier, to get into D.O. schools is the reason many programs won't take D.O.'s. I take stock in test scores and gpa, and many residency directors do also.

Yeah but at the point you are applying for residency the MCAT test scores and GPA you are talking about are ancient history.

You have a new GPA and a new test score on the USMLE that is much more relevant.

 

[exmike]

Not really, since my school is better than most MD schools anyway.

them's fightin' words!

 

[USArmyDoc]

damn OSUDoc, that md rejection must still sting

to the OP, these facts are undeniable, but i'm sure i'll be banned for posting them:

it is much easier to get into a D.O. school, the majority of people who attend D.O. schools didn't get into m.d. schools, and most D.O.'s go into primary care because it is much harder for D.O.'s to get competitive allopathic residencies.

That is all

For your information wisea$$, I am pretty sure OSUDoc was accepted to Baylor. Also, it is not MUCH easier to get into D.O. school and most D.O.'s go into primary care because that is what is emphasized. D.O.'s can and do get into competitive specialities.

 

[dbth77]

And all allopathic resident program directors put a very heavy emphasis on the board scores and clinical grades as opposed to MD vs. DO. School reputation is important, but allo vs. osteo isn't the most important aspect of that reputation...ability of graduating med students (eg residents they produce) is.

then explain to me why there are so few osteos in competitive allo fields.

 

[dbth77]

For your information wisea$$, I am pretty sure OSUDoc was accepted to Baylor. Also, it is not MUCH easier to get into D.O. school and most D.O.'s go into primary care because that is what is emphasized. D.O.'s can and do get into competitive specialities.

OSUDoc did not get into Baylor, he didn't even get an interview at his state M.D. school I believe

 

[STUCKinUCR]

DO international practice rights: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

some countries that won't give DO's a permanent license will let DO's practice during medical mission trips (at least that's what i've read on here before...)

thank you so much

i swear im an idiot when it comes to the search function

thanks for doing the legwork for me

 

[OSUdoc08]

OSUDoc did not get into Baylor, he didn't even get an interview at his state M.D. school I believe

I interviewed at Baylor.

Thanks for talking about my behind my back!

Rude!

 

[WestTexasRambler]

combo of both, old school types just stick with the m.d. because it's the more known commodity, but the fact that it is easier, in many cases significantly easier, to get into D.O. schools is the reason many programs won't take D.O.'s. I take stock in test scores and gpa, and many residency directors do also.

I expect I will be an exception to the rule.

 

[OSUdoc08]

OSUDoc did not get into Baylor, he didn't even get an interview at his state M.D. school I believe

What was that? Yeah I didn't think so.

 

[AngryBaby]

OSUDoc did not get into Baylor, he didn't even get an interview at his state M.D. school I believe

In a near-last ditch effort to save the relevance of this thread. Anybody can ask practicing MD's and see what they have to say about working with DO's. Go ahead and do that and you'll likely get a very good idea about this topic. I've done this and have taken a looong time to form a solid opinion on this topic (over a year) but once you have asked the right people and done your research the answer is pretty obvious...and let's try to ignore the children if they cannot themselves determine what is/isn't productive here.

 

[AngryBaby]

What was that? Yeah I didn't think so.

Woah...OSUdoc's ready to go...Mavs couldda used some of that fire in the 4th quarter yesterday.

 

[USArmyDoc]

What was that? Yeah I didn't think so.

Whatever...if he interviewed there he was still good enough to get in number wise. I am also sure he is good enough to get anyway. You (dbth77) are a useless addition to this thread. You came in here and started crap when there was none. Also, are you in medical school by any chance? If you are, I am surprised.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Woah...OSUdoc's ready to go...Mavs couldda used some of that fire in the 4th quarter yesterday.

Don't worry. They'll have it Thursday night.

 

[USArmyDoc]

In a near-last ditch effort to save the relevance of this thread. Anybody can ask practicing MD's and see what they have to say about working with DO's. Go ahead and do that and you'll likely get a very good idea about this topic. I've done this and have taken a looong time to form a solid opinion on this topic (over a year) but once you have asked the right people and done your research the answer is pretty obvious...and let's try to ignore the children if they cannot themselves determine what is/isn't productive here.

I am curious as to what you have heard. Please share

 

[WestTexasRambler]

In a near-last ditch effort to save the relevance of this thread. Anybody can ask practicing MD's and see what they have to say about working with DO's. Go ahead and do that and you'll likely get a very good idea about this topic. I've done this and have taken a looong time to form a solid opinion on this topic (over a year) but once you have asked the right people and done your research the answer is pretty obvious...and let's try to ignore the children if they cannot themselves determine what is/isn't productive here.

For real, let Buddha take the vengeance for the other person's transgressions and chill. 😉

 

[dbth77]

What was that? Yeah I didn't think so.

what are you talking about, I was right on both counts: you didn't get into Baylor and you didn't get an interview from your state M.D. school.

 

[OSUdoc08]

what are you talking about, I was right on both counts: you didn't get into Baylor and you didn't get an interview from your state M.D. school.

There are like 7 state schools in my state.

In addition, Baylor is harder to get into than all of them.

 

[Vox Animo]

More competive DOs take up the DO residencies, So it is often less competive DOs that are competing with MDs for high end specialties, so less are accepted.


Also, DO school do not pay doctors for to take on students during their 3rd and 4th year rotations, so some hospitals are less willing to take DO students.

It doesn't matter if DO's are less competive schools. They all crank out competive intelligent doctors. Every DO school i interviewed at had pass rates of 98-100% on the first try. Also the student body much more relaxed and laid back . This just proves that the high mcat scores do little to predict the ability of a doctor succeed.

And every year the percentage of DOs that go into primary care drops. The amount of DOs that match into primary cares is getting closer and closer to the precentage of MDs that do. As they become more popular and expand, as they are, more specialty position will pop.

Please any informed people correct any errors i may have made, sorry about repeats if any, i didn't read the whole thread.

 

[Beau Geste]

what are you talking about, I was right on both counts: you didn't get into Baylor and you didn't get an interview from your state M.D. school.

Make it stop! 😱

 

[USArmyDoc]

There are like 7 state schools in my state.

In addition, Baylor is harder to get into than all of them.

I would just ignore him. This is turning into a useless thread. I don't see you having to prove yourself to anyone. On a side not though, anyone watch Baghdad ER on HBO? I bet those soldiers REALLY cared if the doctor was a DO or MD. Seriously, try to watch it. Some really screwed up $hit on that show. God Bless them all

 

[MarzMD]

More competive DOs take up the DO residencies, So it is often less competive DOs that are competing with MDs for high end specialties, so less are accepted.


Also, DO school do not pay doctors for to take on students during their 3rd and 4th year rotations, so some hospitals are less willing to take DO students.

It doesn't matter if DO's are less competive schools. They all crank out competive intelligent doctors. Every DO school i interviewed at had pass rates of 98-100% on the first try. Also the student body was less relaxed. This just proves that the high mcat scores do little to predict the ability of a doctor succeed.

And every year the percentage of DOs that go into primary care drops. The amount of DOs that match into primary cares is getting closer and closer to the precentage of MDs that do. As they become more popular and expand, as they are, more specialty position will pop.

Please any informed people correct any errors i may have made, sorry about repeats if any, i didn't read the whole thread.

Carry on.

 

[dbth77]

There are like 7 state schools in my state.

In addition, Baylor is harder to get into than all of them.

yes, Baylor is hard to get into...and you didn't get in. What's next, we brag about schools that invited us to complete secondaries?

 

[OSUdoc08]

yes, Baylor is hard to get into...and you didn't get in. What's next, we brag about schools that invited us to complete secondaries?

You

are

annoying

😴

 

[USArmyDoc]

You

are

annoying

😴

 

[AngryBaby]

I am curious as to what you have heard. Please share

ArmyDoc my father is retired but was a surgeon for many years (chair of urology at Baylor for over 15) and comming from an old-tyme surgeon and all his old-tyme MD buddies the consensus is that they don't care whether or not they work with/refer patients to DO's vs. MD's, what they care about is the competance of that person. Predictably they have met MD's vs. DO's they like and hate so from a collegue point of view it (stunner here) isn't about the initials but really about your body of work.

This thread was supposed to be more specific to residency program directors, however, and I haven't had a chance to speak to any of them first-hand, though I imagine the though process would be the same. Some DO schools do not look competitive when examining entrance scores, board scores, match lists, etc. However neither do some MD schools.

I encourage everyone to do their own thorough research because the answer is actually fairly obvious when you've got all the info, as I imagine you already know. Surgeon General of the military is a DO, isn't he?

 

[tkim]

MD or DO, keep it civil and NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, or I will bust out my holistic ban stick.

 

[USArmyDoc]

ArmyDoc my father is retired but was a surgeon for many years (chair of urology at Baylor for over 15) and comming from an old-tyme surgeon and all his old-tyme MD buddies the consensus is that they don't care whether or not they work with/refer patients to DO's vs. MD's, what they care about is the competance of that person. Predictably they have met MD's vs. DO's they like and hate so from a collegue point of view it (stunner here) isn't about the initials but really about your body of work.

This thread was supposed to be more specific to residency program directors, however, and I haven't had a chance to speak to any of them first-hand, though I imagine the though process would be the same. Some DO schools do not look competitive when examining entrance scores, board scores, match lists, etc. However neither do some MD schools.

I encourage everyone to do their own thorough research because the answer is actually fairly obvious when you've got all the info, as I imagine you already know. Surgeon General of the military is a DO, isn't he?[/QUOTE]


Yes, he is.

Thank you for sharing that. Coming from someone such as your father (Chair at Baylor) I think people should put some stock into what was posted above.

I also have heard through EVERY physician I spoke to the samething you heard. I keep hearing through the "pre-med know-it-alls" about these residency directors that shun D.O.'s like crazy.

 

[dbth77]

""pre-med know-it-alls" about these residency directors that shun D.O.'s like crazy"


you're right, i'm wrong, I admit it. All M.D.'s and D.O.'s have the same chance of getting competitive residencies. The numbers don't lie.

 

[USArmyDoc]

""pre-med know-it-alls" about these residency directors that shun D.O.'s like crazy"


you're right, i'm wrong, I admit it. All M.D.'s and D.O.'s have the same chance of getting competitive residencies. The numbers don't lie.

I am NOT saying you are totally incorrect. I am saying that pre-meds make it seem to be a be all end all situation. In fact, if you listen to people in the KNOW they are wrong. Are there residency directors that are bias? I am sure of it!! However, I think its the minority from what I heard.

 

[WestTexasRambler]

""pre-med know-it-alls" about these residency directors that shun D.O.'s like crazy"


you're right, i'm wrong, I admit it. All M.D.'s and D.O.'s have the same chance of getting competitive residencies. The numbers don't lie.

I like to meet people like you in person and see if y'all are that brazen in being condescending. As always, you would not be. BTW Chuck Norris is my bodyguard so don't get any ideas.

 

[AngryBaby]

""pre-med know-it-alls" about these residency directors that shun D.O.'s like crazy"


you're right, i'm wrong, I admit it. All M.D.'s and D.O.'s have the same chance of getting competitive residencies. The numbers don't lie.

At the risk of encouraging dbth77 I'm going to answer his post because it is valid and isn't confrontational.

dbth, you're right about the numbers for residency matching for US MD's vs. DO's, however I attribute that factor to the reason WestTexas cited above. Despite that, MD's do match higher than DO's by the numbers. We were discussing DO vs. Carribean MD in another thread earlier today (again) and the numbers suggest DO is a better bet than foriegn MD. Just throwing that out there in case anyone is thinking about the Carribean and isn't aware of the distinction between foriegn and domestic MD grads.

 

[OSUdoc08]

""pre-med know-it-alls" about these residency directors that shun D.O.'s like crazy"


you're right, i'm wrong, I admit it. All M.D.'s and D.O.'s have the same chance of getting competitive residencies. The numbers don't lie.

Not all---just the ones who work hard and apply themselves on the boards and in clinical rotations.