Med School MS1 retakes or drop outs?

[DRposer]

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I was wondering what other med schools MS1 retake rates and/or drop out rates are?
My university has anywhere from 10-20 students retake their first/second year; every year? I know why, but I would rather not say. I would like to know what other schools ARE like; or at least the impression you receive from the faculty during orientation? Our school's drop out rate is very low (even though someone left the 2nd day of classes) but our retake rate is high, I would assume. Also, how much does it cost at your school if you do retake a year, do you need to pay full tuition, or is it cheaper?

 

[logos]

At orientation they said about 5 people on average have to repeat med 1 (of ~210 total). According to the orientation speech, more people from our class will not graduate on time because of getting another degree (MD/MBA,JD,MPH) than anything else. I think they were trying to comfort us before the onslaught.

 

[shiraz84]

I think they were trying to comfort us before the onslaught.

 

[WhoisJohnGalt]

We were told (last week actually) that it was usually around 10 out of a class of about 150.

 

[sparky5]

Here is is about 10 ppl each year who have had to take leave or have to repeat the year since they failed 50% of the courses. Class sizes are like 190.

 

[chintu]

At out school last year we've had 5 repeating and/or doing an extended curriculum where they take lighter load and graduate a year later.

SLU SOM (MSII)

Here is is about 10 ppl each year who have had to take leave or have to repeat the year since they failed 50% of the courses. Class sizes are like 190.

 

[werd]

just a few (3-4) people per year have to retake here, out of 'bout 150. our school is very proactive about helping people that are "about to fail."

 

[Wiggy73]

We had a mandatory "get-to-know-the-warm-and-fuzzy-promotions-committee" meeting today, right before our first anatomy exam. Ah, the irony. 🙄 Last year everyone actually passed everything; usually, like, one or two people out of 105 to have to take summer classes.

All right, study break over. Back to the extensor compartment of the forearm. I just 😍 anatomy.

 

[MyBeauTulane]

to start off, this is for my friend, not me. also, i am not being a "troll" here, i am genuinely looking for help for her. does anyone have any experience with this situation:

Ok, so, my friend is in DO school but hates it and is getting a ton of getting federal loans. How would it work if she quit and went to MD school? Would she have to start paying on those loans NOW or could they be added onto from the MD school assuming the total balance stays below the 180something maximum and then start paying back like she normally would have?

Also along those lines, she has no desire to transfer into a ms2 or ms3 position, but to just completely start over even though she would be leaving the DO school at the end of her ms2 year. She retook the mcat and went from a 24 to a 33 and has a 3.4 gpa. Would the MD school know she went to a DO school before? Is she required to say? would it matter if she said? i think she said she is about average in the class, grade wise.

finally how would it affect the DO school? is it really bad for that school or just someone they dont get an extra 2 yrs of money from??

I guess she was hoping that since there is the aacomas and the amcas separately, that there would not be communication between the two in applying.

she just doesnt want to go to the DO school anymore badly enough that she would be will to start completely over. just a personal choice, no good solid extenuating circumstance. a transfer would be great, but not needed.

we appreciate the help.

 

[quideam]

Well, I can give you a partial answer, and that is that she is required to say on her AMCAS form whether she's ever attended any medical school (MD or DO). This may include foreign schools too, but i'm not sure about that.

As far as transferring from DO to MD - that may be possible, but i'm betting very difficult. Particularly if she doesn't have any extenuating circumstances / good excuses. It might be easier to transfer to another DO school, but i'm just hypothesizing.

Has she considered just staying in the DO school? Now that she's done (or is going to be done) with 2nd year, the rest is just clinicals - so if she doesn't like the way they teach, etc., it isn't an issue anymore. And if she doesn't like the hospital, it's really only one more year, and then she can spend half of her fourth year abroad/away at other hospitals.

Sorry I can't help more...

Q

 

[MyBeauTulane]

she was sent a letter telling her that DO students are not welcome to to clinical rotations in 2 of the surgical programs she was interested in. they specified that MD students only are welcome, no DO students.

 

[fun8stuff]

she was sent a letter telling her that DO students are not welcome to to clinical rotations in 2 of the surgical programs she was interested in. they specified that MD students only are welcome, no DO students.

it seems kinda of silly to start over when you are already halfway done- time-wise and money-wise. There are plenty of sugery programs in the US that are DO friendly. Why not just shoot for (And rotate through) one of those? DO=MD (And this is coming from a MD student)

 

[hakksar]

I think my class only had 1 drop out (and go to law school) and another repeat MS-1. Sometimes students take a year off to have a baby or something but that hasn't happened in my class (although we picked a student up this way). Some students had to remediate over the summer though (not sure of the numbers that had to do that though). This is in a class of 132.

 

[dara678]

As far as transferring from DO to MD - that may be possible, but i'm betting very difficult. Particularly if she doesn't have any extenuating circumstances / good excuses. It might be easier to transfer to another DO school, but i'm just hypothesizing.


Q

I think he was saying that she just wanted to start completely over right (from first year)? I would guess that would be easier than transferring from DO to MD, but like quideam said you must state that you have been to a medical school (including DO) before. And it is very likely they would ask what happened there. Her unwillingness to stay in her program may show a lack of dedication (even though that's not what it really is) and might hurt her in the MD interview process.

I would say it is just easier to stay in DO ... she wouldn't be wasting two years and $80,000 and she would be risking less.

 

[njbmd]

to start off, this is for my friend, not me. also, i am not being a "troll" here, i am genuinely looking for help for her. does anyone have any experience with this situation:

Ok, so, my friend is in DO school but hates it and is getting a ton of getting federal loans. How would it work if she quit and went to MD school? Would she have to start paying on those loans NOW or could they be added onto from the MD school assuming the total balance stays below the 180something maximum and then start paying back like she normally would have?

Also along those lines, she has no desire to transfer into a ms2 or ms3 position, but to just completely start over even though she would be leaving the DO school at the end of her ms2 year. She retook the mcat and went from a 24 to a 33 and has a 3.4 gpa. Would the MD school know she went to a DO school before? Is she required to say? would it matter if she said? i think she said she is about average in the class, grade wise.

finally how would it affect the DO school? is it really bad for that school or just someone they dont get an extra 2 yrs of money from??

I guess she was hoping that since there is the aacomas and the amcas separately, that there would not be communication between the two in applying.

she just doesnt want to go to the DO school anymore badly enough that she would be will to start completely over. just a personal choice, no good solid extenuating circumstance. a transfer would be great, but not needed.

we appreciate the help.

Hi there,
Your friend would be required to report her attendance at a DO school and she would be required to begin paying off her loans if she spent more than 9 months out of school.

I can't think of a single allopathic medical school that would touch a student who is quitting DO school because she doesn't like it. Since there is little difference between allopathic and osteopathic medical school, chances are, she will not like allopathic medical school either.

Transfer between DO and MD are very rare. The one person that I know that was able to make the transfer, repeated first year and had extenuating circumstances.

Good luck!
njbmd 🙂

 

[WatchingWaiting]

she was sent a letter telling her that DO students are not welcome to to clinical rotations in 2 of the surgical programs she was interested in. they specified that MD students only are welcome, no DO students.

Well, her revised MCAT is good, while her gpa is a little low, which would translate into admittable to your average MD school. However, when she chose the DO route, she must have realized that the MD community (especially more competitive members of the MD community) would have a perception of her as not being good enough to get into medical school. Actually, here's a little quote from the Dean of Stanford Med school's September 19, 2005 newslettter discussing the future physician workforce and assessing osteopaths:

"So an important question is, if there is a need for additional physicians in the workforce, should they come from our allopathic schools or from other sources? We do know that these students perform far differently on the USMLE exams and that the GPA and MCAT scores of those entering offshore or osteopathic schools are far lower than those admitted to US allopathic medical schools. Indeed, most of the students pursuing offshore or osteopathy schools (between 63-94%) applied to allopathic schools but did not achieve admission. A related question, therefore, is what happens to the graduates from the nation's Graduate Medical Education programs. Do those individuals who trained in the Caribbean schools or schools of osteopathy compensate for prior weaknesses by doing the graduate medical training in LCME/ACGME programs? And what kind of physicians do they become?"

(http://deansnewsletter.stanford.edu/#7)

So, she's probably just seeing the surgery programs expressing the above sentiment. Anyway, there are a good number of surgery programs that will be willing to accept her if she has good scores on the USMLE and if she does well on a rotation there, so you should advise her to try more programs and not be too picky on location.

In terms of the re-starting med school, she probably could try to apply the MD route (her credentials seem adequate) and just say she couldn't stand the osteopathic philosophy or something along those lines, but it would be an awful lot of years of life wasted and it would indicate a certain flakiness/prestige-driven mentality that most admissions people wouldn't be very excited about.

So, suck it up, do well in the third-year at whatver places will let you rotate there, focus on a good Step 2 (hopefully, Step 1 turned out well), and things should work out in the end.

 

[LAZYGUY]

As an MD student I can tell you this email is ridiculous, there is no reason for your dean to be writing such elitist comments. It achieves only 2 purposes: it molds students mind into thinking that MD's are superior doctors because of their "pre-med admissions" qualifications; it makes osteoopaths and FMGs seem like second rate, last chance physicians. This is extremely unprofessional and unethical. I am very surprised that this is coming from such a great institution. I am sure if some of our leaders saw this email, that dean would be removed.

Well, her revised MCAT is good, while her gpa is a little low, which would translate into admittable to your average MD school. However, when she chose the DO route, she must have realized that the MD community (especially more competitive members of the MD community) would have a perception of her as not being good enough to get into medical school. Actually, here's a little quote from the Dean of Stanford Med school's September 19, 2005 newslettter discussing the future physician workforce and assessing osteopaths:

"So an important question is, if there is a need for additional physicians in the workforce, should they come from our allopathic schools or from other sources? We do know that these students perform far differently on the USMLE exams and that the GPA and MCAT scores of those entering offshore or osteopathic schools are far lower than those admitted to US allopathic medical schools. Indeed, most of the students pursuing offshore or osteopathy schools (between 63-94%) applied to allopathic schools but did not achieve admission. A related question, therefore, is what happens to the graduates from the nation's Graduate Medical Education programs. Do those individuals who trained in the Caribbean schools or schools of osteopathy compensate for prior weaknesses by doing the graduate medical training in LCME/ACGME programs? And what kind of physicians do they become?"

(http://deansnewsletter.stanford.edu/#7)

So, she's probably just seeing the surgery programs expressing the above sentiment. Anyway, there are a good number of surgery programs that will be willing to accept her if she has good scores on the USMLE and if she does well on a rotation there, so you should advise her to try more programs and not be too picky on location.

In terms of the re-starting med school, she probably could try to apply the MD route (her credentials seem adequate) and just say she couldn't stand the osteopathic philosophy or something along those lines, but it would be an awful lot of years of life wasted and it would indicate a certain flakiness/prestige-driven mentality that most admissions people wouldn't be very excited about.

So, suck it up, do well in the third-year at whatver places will let you rotate there, focus on a good Step 2 (hopefully, Step 1 turned out well), and things should work out in the end.

 

[synapse lapse]

As an MD student I can tell you this email is ridiculous, there is no reason for your dean to be writing such elitist comments. It achieves only 2 purposes: it molds students mind into thinking that MD's are superior doctors because of their "pre-med admissions" qualifications; it makes osteoopaths and FMGs seem like second rate, last chance physicians. This is extremely unprofessional and unethical. I am very surprised that this is coming from such a great institution. I am sure if some of our leaders saw this email, that dean would be removed.

I completely disagree. The Dean made a statement about a true emperical observation, that the GPA/MCAT averages are lower for those schools, and that many students use them as back up, and then posed a follow up question, asking if this translates into them being reasonable physicians. he never said they weren't, what he did say is that the question needed to be asked. Besides, American allopathic education is superior to a Carribean eduaction, though probably not to US DO.

 

[Immolatis]

Just as a thought, the Surgical Chair at the Cleveland Clinic is a DO...


There is no difference between the two, except in the minds of the elitest...

 

[LAZYGUY]

go study biochem, alex 🙄

I completely disagree. The Dean made a statement about a true emperical observation, that the GPA/MCAT averages are lower for those schools, and that many students use them as back up, and then posed a follow up question, asking if this translates into them being reasonable physicians. he never said they weren't, what he did say is that the question needed to be asked. Besides, American allopathic education is superior to a Carribean eduaction, though probably not to US DO.