Med school's accepted score ranges....

[bertz413]

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So, I have the MSAR book and I was going through it looking at the school's average scores and the average scores nationally that are listed for each school. Ok, fine, that part I understand...then, if you look at the section where it says something like "school's lowest to highest scores accepted" (it's that same graph), some schools have VERY low numbers shaded in....for example, one school will have, say in the physical sciences section, accepted score ranges from 3 to 13 (which I was just looking at), so....does that mean they actually accepted someone with a 3 in the Physical science section???!!! Sorry if this seems obvious to everyone, but, as I keep looking I keep seeing the same thing, ranges of scores that are from 3, 4, and 5's up to 13's and 14's.....
so if it just occurred to me that I am reading it wrong or they have accepted people with really low scores? How can that be that someone would get in with a 3?
Thanks for any friendly replies!!!

 

[NdFrSpd]

yea its actually very unbelievable isn't it? but medical schools do actually let in scores that low some times. But thats not to say that the other scores in someway make up for the low physical sciences score. For my school in the msar, the physical sceince section is all shaded in.... all the way from 1 to 15!! now thats about as extreme a range as you can get!!!! but yea its quite outrageous the range thats admitted!

 

[Tired Pigeon]

yea its actually very unbelievable isn't it? but medical schools do actually let in scores that low some times. But thats not to say that the other scores in someway make up for the low physical sciences score. For my school in the msar, the physical sceince section is all shaded in.... all the way from 1 to 15!! now thats about as extreme a range as you can get!!!! but yea its quite outrageous the range thats admitted!

Can you even get a "1" on any of the sections? I thought you got more than that for just showing up?

 

[RySerr21]

So, I have the MSAR book and I was going through it looking at the school's average scores and the average scores nationally that are listed for each school. Ok, fine, that part I understand...then, if you look at the section where it says something like "school's lowest to highest scores accepted" (it's that same graph), some schools have VERY low numbers shaded in....for example, one school will have, say in the physical sciences section, accepted score ranges from 3 to 13 (which I was just looking at), so....does that mean they actually accepted someone with a 3 in the Physical science section???!!! Sorry if this seems obvious to everyone, but, as I keep looking I keep seeing the same thing, ranges of scores that are from 3, 4, and 5's up to 13's and 14's.....
so if it just occurred to me that I am reading it wrong or they have accepted people with really low scores? How can that be that someone would get in with a 3?
Thanks for any friendly replies!!!

what are the national averages for GPA and MCAT??

 

[bertz413]

the GPA and MCAT averages very for each school....but ranges are pretty extreme for all....

 

[EdibleEgg]

The accepted score ranges just mean that your application is not automatically thrown out as long as you are in the range listed. It does not mean that people have been accepted with those scores, but they theoretically could be. I've heard of some 6's on an otherwise exceptional candidate making it in, but it's tough to make up for something like that.

 

[bertz413]

The accepted score ranges just mean that your application is not automatically thrown out as long as you are in the range listed. It does not mean that people have been accepted with those scores, but they theoretically could be. I've heard of some 6's on an otherwise exceptional candidate making it in, but it's tough to make up for something like that.

HHHmmm, it is just a confusing way of putting it, b/c it clearly states "accepted"scores..... anyway, wish it were true!!!

 

[SBBunny]

I bet that there are lots of people who don't do well on the verbal section, but end up totally rocking the bio and physical sciences sections. Honestly, I think that those grey shaded MCAT ranges are the most useless piece of information in the MSAR.

I wish that the MSAR actually had data about accepted score RANGES, not just the median GPA and MCAT scores. The US World News gives 25th-75th percentile ranges for LSAT scores and GPAs. 25th-75th percentile ranges for MCAT scores and GPAs would be a lot more representative than a median or a mean (with some useless gray shaded boxes to emphasize that a low sub section doesn't mean that someone can't be a competitive applicant). Obviously, it's more work for medical schools to provide that kind of data, but I think that it would be really interesting to see.

 

[DBR]

the lower end of the range is mostly URM. the higher end is mostly people that were accepted to that school but arent actually attending. people with the high scores can top off the range at several schools.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Please don't post the same question (verbatim) in two forums - I've deleted the duplicate from the nontrad forum.

The raw numbers don't tell the whole story. Keep in mind that where you see VR scores of 3 and PS scores of 6 for accepted students, they won't be the same person. Also, other factors need to be considered such as applicants accepted via an early assurance program where the MCAT was not required, or it was a mere formality. Also, some of those data points may come from applicants who started their degree overseas, but transferred to U.S. schools after stellar medical school grades and USMLE scores were earned. While common sense dictates that such cases are uncommon, the law of outliers dictates that they'll be present in a sample of >120 allopathic schools.

 

[bertz413]

thanks again for all the info. I think that they should clearly state what their minimum and max scores are when they are listed on the msar. i mean, they usually say "oh, we don't have a definate cut off score", but they should at least put what their actual accepted ranges are in the MSAR for the previous year. I mean come on....we need some information!!!😛

 

[skyeblue0610]

I thought I was the only one that noticed that. It's the same with university SAT/ACT scores. Like when a school's average is 14-30, they REALLY let someone in with a 14😱

I do wonder for those with very low single digit MCAT scores of under 3.00 GPA, what sort of research they did. When scores are that low it seems (from looking through mdapplicants) that people are on there way to a Pulitzer with some 5+ years or like 5 different research projects and publications on them all

 

[flaahless]

the lower end of the range is mostly URM. the higher end is mostly people that were accepted to that school but arent actually attending. people with the high scores can top off the range at several schools.

And you know this how?

 

[DBR]

And you know this how?

The AAMC posts their data for MCAT scores by ethnicity.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/mcatgparaceeth07.htm


It is therefore reasonable to come to the conclusion that based on the means and SD of URM scores it is much more likely that URMS are setting the lower limits of the score ranges.

 

[Rotinaj]

The AAMC posts their data for MCAT scores by ethnicity.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/mcatgparaceeth07.htm


It is therefore reasonable to come to the conclusion that based on the means and SD of URM scores it is much more likely that URMS are setting the lower limits of the score ranges.

Oh snap.

 

[veaselhaufen]

And you know this how?

why provoke? Give it a rest

 

[flaahless]

The AAMC posts their data for MCAT scores by ethnicity.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/mcatgparaceeth07.htm


It is therefore reasonable to come to the conclusion that based on the means and SD of URM scores it is much more likely that URMS are setting the lower limits of the score ranges.

What about legacy students? Or students with parents that have powerful connections and/or a lot of money?

 

[flaahless]

why provoke? Give it a rest

Because his statement was pure conjecture and not fact. However, some naiive and frustrated premed is going to read his comment and take it as factual, which will only perpetuate the negative views and thoughts that URMs have to deal with.

 

[RySerr21]

The AAMC posts their data for MCAT scores by ethnicity.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/mcatgparaceeth07.htm


It is therefore reasonable to come to the conclusion that based on the means and SD of URM scores it is much more likely that URMS are setting the lower limits of the score ranges.

if you registered uner URM will your scores be compared to other scores in your ethnicity? I am puerto rican. if i get a 27 w/ 9s across the board, thats not a very good score, but still significantly higher than average matriculant for puerto ricans which i slike a 24.4 or something. is that in my favor or does it not really matteR? if i get in the 30s is that even more "impressive" in an adcoms as eyes since i am puerto rican?

 

[WrightMD]

I am far from racist but according to the info provided blacks and Mexicans get in with lower MCAT scores (on average 3 or 4 points) than whites. How is that fair? Why aren't all people judged the same?

 

[veaselhaufen]

Because his statement was pure conjecture and not fact. However, some naiive and frustrated premed is going to read his comment and take it as factual, which will only perpetuate the negative views and thoughts that URMs have to deal with.

Just give it up man. The poster is referring to published data by aamc. He didn't intend to offend anyone personally. Don't instigate drama.

 

[veaselhaufen]

I am far from racist but according to the info provided blacks and Mexicans get in with lower MCAT scores (on average 3 or 4 points) than whites. How is that fair? Why aren't all people judged the same?

lame. stop

 

[MWK]

Back to the original topic, I know someone who was admitted with a 5 on verbal. He had a 30 overall. For you demographic-ers, he was white.

 

[WrightMD]

lame. stop

Stop what? I'm just wondering why the stats aren't pretty much the same between the races. It seems as though they favor certain races.

 

[nathan575]

It's like adcom's might consider diverse background and/or ability to face adversity more important than the rapid interpretation of same random chart and/or paragraph...... Weeeeeeeiiiiiiiirrrrrddd. 😱

 

[WrightMD]

It's like adcom's might consider diverse background and/or ability to face adversity more important than the rapid interpretation of same random chart and/or paragraph...... Weeeeeeeiiiiiiiirrrrrddd. 😱

Red herrings.

Anyone have any real ideas to put forth as to why the MCAT and GPA averages are quite different?

 

[veaselhaufen]

It's like adcom's might consider diverse background and/or ability to face adversity more important than the rapid interpretation of same random chart and/or paragraph...... Weeeeeeeiiiiiiiirrrrrddd. 😱

hahahahaha my money is on this being flaahless in disguise. Who else uses weeeeeiirrdd (refer to his mdapps). Flaahless, doesn't this AA stuff ever get out of your head? Life goes on

 

[flaahless]

hahahahaha my money is on this being flaahless in disguise. Who else uses weeeeeiirrdd (refer to his mdapps). Flaahless, doesn't this AA stuff ever get out of your head? Life goes on

Hahaha, that is a funny coincidence for real. But It wasn't me! I'm serious. And no, I'm always ready and willing to discuss cultural issues.

 

[WrightMD]

Hahaha, yeah it probably is flaahless.

Damn I hear about many people getting turned down from the UC schools with over 30 MCATS.

 

[veaselhaufen]

Hahaha, that is a funny coincidence for real. But It wasn't me! I'm serious. And no, I'm always ready and willing to discuss cultural issues.

hahahahah, it's totally you trying to cover it up 🙂. Someone with isn seeking abilities should confirm

 

[veaselhaufen]

Hahaha, yeah it probably is flaahless.

Damn I hear about many people getting turned down from the UC schools with over 30 MCATS and he got admitted to 2 of them with a 29? I cry foul!

You two are perfect for each other. Your ignorance and insensitivity and his desire to always be shrouded in controversy. Despite my best effort to moderate, let round one begin.

 

[WrightMD]

LOL, ignorance? Far from it.

 

[smeagol]

Red herrings.

Anyone have any real ideas to put forth as to why the MCAT and GPA averages are quite different?

There is an announcement with regard to affirmative action threads. The topic has been beaten to death, resurrected, and then beaten some more.

I hope you didn't have to go through several years of college before realizing life wasn't fair =\

 

[veaselhaufen]

did flaahless walk away with his tail b/w his legs? Always down for discussion of cultural issues yes, but honesty issues no?

 

[veaselhaufen]

hahaha now im instigating drama. Sorry😉

 

[flaahless]

did flaahless walk away with his tail b/w his legs? Always down for discussion of cultural issues yes, but honesty issues no?

NEVER!!!

 

[RySerr21]

if you registered under URM will your scores be compared to other scores in your ethnicity? I am puerto rican. if i get a 27 w/ 9s across the board, thats not a very good score, but still significantly higher than average matriculant for puerto ricans which i slike a 24.4 or something. is that in my favor or does it not really matteR? if i get in the 30s is that even more "impressive" in an adcoms as eyes since i am puerto rican?

i know its a re post but i though ti might get lost underneath the string of stupid posts that didn't really accomplish anything. if anybody knows about what i've asked please respond 🙂

 

[xrevision]

It will only work to your favor, but 27 is generally not going to get you into the top notch schools--no matter how URM you are. Oh and I don't think it will be impressive to adcoms if you broke 30 unless you were definitely facing some sort of obstacles specifically stemming from you being Puerto Rican.

Its not like they are thinking that Puerto Ricans can't score high, their job is just to provide a diverse learning environment.

 

[thoffen]

The trouble is that you're taking one data set (average scores) and applying it to a completely different data set (outliers). The two aren't necessarily related. ScottishChap and flaahless mention some perfectly reasonable cases for these outliers that have nothing to do with race.

 

[RySerr21]

edit:

 

[bertz413]

I just looked again under this post since I am the original OP. I must admit, I was SO HAPPY to see 39 replies! "Oh yeah....someone finally knows what the hell the answer is to my question"....and there was a silly back and forth about URMs. I am a URM, and I am not. So there. Please, this was just originally about the accepted MCAT ranges of scores. I just wanted to know that...so does anyone really know the answer? THANKS@ peace.

 

[TheRealMD]

I just looked again under this post since I am the original OP. I must admit, I was SO HAPPY to see 39 replies! "Oh yeah....someone finally knows what the hell the answer is to my question"....and there was a silly back and forth about URMs. I am a URM, and I am not. So there. Please, this was just originally about the accepted MCAT ranges of scores. I just wanted to know that...so does anyone really know the answer? THANKS@ peace.

Considering med schools often admit people with MCAT scores less than 23 or so, a score of a 3 in a section is possible though definitely should not be considered common. Plus, it's very likely that the had higher scores in other sections to overcome other cutoffs.

Most importantly, without standard deviations, I wouldn't even bother looking at average MCATs as they are statistically insignificant. No one does research with blatantly incomplete information, you shouldn't really trust the MSAR on numbers too much either.

 

[bertz413]

Considering med schools often admit people with MCAT scores less than 23 or so, a score of a 3 in a section is possible though definitely should not be considered common. Plus, it's very likely that the had higher scores in other sections to overcome other cutoffs.

Most importantly, without standard deviations, I wouldn't even bother looking at average MCATs as they are statistically insignificant. No one does research with blatantly incomplete information, you shouldn't really trust the MSAR on numbers too much either.

thank you, realMD, and good luck at Baylor (wish I was going there!)🙂

 

[Vihsadas]

Considering med schools often admit people with MCAT scores less than 23 or so, a score of a 3 in a section is possible though definitely should not be considered common. Plus, it's very likely that the had higher scores in other sections to overcome other cutoffs.

Most importantly, without standard deviations, I wouldn't even bother looking at average MCATs as they are statistically insignificant. No one does research with blatantly incomplete information, you shouldn't really trust the MSAR on numbers too much either.

To add, if you see a score of '1', maybe it just means that there were some REEEEALY extenuating circumstances and the adcom at a school decided that the one applicant didn't have to take the MCAT...maybe an international transfer student or something?? Just a guess...

 

[Timmythemic22]

I gotta hand it to SDNers...given any topic, they can turn it into an URM flame war.

Rock on!

 

[MossPoh]

What about legacy students? Or students with parents that have powerful connections and/or a lot of money?

Legacy doesn't mean too much....it isn't the 1940s anymore. If all else is held equal then they MIGHT take the legacy, simply because the increased odds of that student matriculating over the other. I'm willing to take a gamble and say that the amount of students with powerful enough connections and enough money to substantially affect decisions are few and far between as well. One thing, I know people who had PARENTS on the admission committee for specific schools. They actually did not get into that school and had to reapply the next year. The parents or person who knows the applicant usually subtract themselves from the equation to prevent such thoughts that an applicant only got in because of connections.

 

[flaahless]

Legacy doesn't mean too much....it isn't the 1940s anymore. If all else is held equal then they MIGHT take the legacy, simply because the increased odds of that student matriculating over the other. I'm willing to take a gamble and say that the amount of students with powerful enough connections and enough money to substantially affect decisions are few and far between as well. One thing, I know people who had PARENTS on the admission committee for specific schools. They actually did not get into that school and had to reapply the next year. The parents or person who knows the applicant usually subtract themselves from the equation to prevent such thoughts that an applicant only got in because of connections.

I disagree. Connections and networking abilities permeate very deep and can be extremely influential to an applicant's success.

 

[spazzz]

Legacy doesn't mean too much....it isn't the 1940s anymore. If all else is held equal then they MIGHT take the legacy, simply because the increased odds of that student matriculating over the other. I'm willing to take a gamble and say that the amount of students with powerful enough connections and enough money to substantially affect decisions are few and far between as well. One thing, I know people who had PARENTS on the admission committee for specific schools. They actually did not get into that school and had to reapply the next year. The parents or person who knows the applicant usually subtract themselves from the equation to prevent such thoughts that an applicant only got in because of connections.

legacy will always mean much. your example is as good as mine. i worked in an admissions office, and my boss now works for a great med school admissions office, they take legacy very seriously.

 

[sasdaddy]

So, I have the MSAR book and I was going through it looking at the school's average scores and the average scores nationally that are listed for each school. Ok, fine, that part I understand...then, if you look at the section where it says something like "school's lowest to highest scores accepted" (it's that same graph), some schools have VERY low numbers shaded in....for example, one school will have, say in the physical sciences section, accepted score ranges from 3 to 13 (which I was just looking at), so....does that mean they actually accepted someone with a 3 in the Physical science section???!!! Sorry if this seems obvious to everyone, but, as I keep looking I keep seeing the same thing, ranges of scores that are from 3, 4, and 5's up to 13's and 14's.....
so if it just occurred to me that I am reading it wrong or they have accepted people with really low scores? How can that be that someone would get in with a 3?
Thanks for any friendly replies!!!

i decided to look into it a little more closely and now my first post.

i have the 07-08 edition and if you look at pg. 114 under the "MCAT Information of Accepted applicants," it says, "the range of scores on each MCAT section for all 2005 applicants accepted to the school (the gradient line behind the circled numbers)."

that should hopefully clarify things for you...people were accepted with scores of 3's and 4's in certain sections (but i'm sure they made up with very high scores in the other sections and/or elsewhere in their application).

 

[TheRealMD]

i decided to look into it a little more closely and now my first post.

i have the 07-08 edition and if you look at pg. 114 under the "MCAT Information of Accepted applicants," it says, "the range of scores on each MCAT section for all 2005 applicants accepted to the school (the gradient line behind the circled numbers)."

that should hopefully clarify things for you...people were accepted with scores of 3's and 4's in certain sections (but i'm sure they made up with very high scores in the other sections and/or elsewhere in their application).

Which pretty much means that less than 3 people out of acceptance pools that are easily in the 300-400 range are causing those outlining MCAT section scores.