Med Students Behaving Badly

[DrDude]

We got a few characters in our class. One of whom has developed an almost legendary rep as someone who talks back to nurses, residents, even attendings. It doesn't matter who it is, he don't take crap from no one. He was in one of my rotations and the rest of us students would be in anticipation for the day's highlight when he would go off.

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

You got any characters in your school?

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[Agent Splat]

You got any characters in your school?

Nothing that awesome that I can sum up so easily! That's awesome. I'd love to talk back like that sometimes. Maybe I will someday if pushed hard enough.

 

[TRAMD]

I told an attending that he was a prick during my third year. I was more respectful when I REPEATED the rotation. Many people have smart-assed remarks on hand at all times (such as myself); the smart ones know when to say them and when to hold their tongue.

Not that calling an attending a prick was that smart-assed . . . it was really more heavy on the assed part.

I should also add that I did very well on all testing aspects of this rotation and the attending just made my score from him so low that I failed. It is important to know that you can still fail even if your knowledge and test-taking ability is good.

 

[87138]

We got a few characters in our class. One of whom has developed an almost legendary rep as someone who talks back to nurses, residents, even attendings. It doesn't matter who it is, he don't take crap from no one. He was in one of my rotations and the rest of us students would be in anticipation for the day's highlight when he would go off.

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

You got any characters in your school?

Ha. How are his clinical evaluations so far?

 

[MacGyver]

We got a few characters in our class. One of whom has developed an almost legendary rep as someone who talks back to nurses, residents, even attendings. It doesn't matter who it is, he don't take crap from no one. He was in one of my rotations and the rest of us students would be in anticipation for the day's highlight when he would go off.

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

You got any characters in your school?

That dude is my hero! I want to worship him!

 

[Mayhem]

I told an attending that he was a prick during my third year. I was more respectful when I REPEATED the rotation.

LOL. Almost got myself into hot water too. We had this resident who would just do anything to push your buttons so that the students would leave him alone in clinic. Thing is he also managed to get all the interesting cases so I used to stick out the torture to see them too. One day he was really going to town then he asked "Well what do you have to say for yourself?" Without even thinking I mumbled "I think you're an a-hole with napoleon issues" (He was shorter than me). He ripped me a new one and rightly so cause I fell for it. He didn't report me though which is the only semi-positive thing I can say about him

Apart from that, in my class we have this guy who just insists on answering questions that he shouldn't. We were on a ward round once and he yawned. The Doctor asked him if he was bored, he said "Yeah, and hungry too." So the Doc says "Well if you think you have something better to do then go ahead." And you better believe the dude walked off the ward and went home.

On another rotation he was sleeping in the doctor's room when a female resident came in and started to move one of the tables. The sound woke him up and he lifted up his head and the resident said to him all sarcastic "No thanks I don't need any help with the heavy desk at all" So dude went back to sleep. A girl that was in the room told me the resident was so shocked she froze for a good 10 seconds.

 

[kypdurron5]

Wow. It's SO not a good idea to piss off your nurses, let alone superiors. I think it's a terrible idea to make enemies of any coworkers, but that's especially true in medicine where you rely on others to do a lot of stuff that affects how you do your job. Plus, even if he feels the need to stop interruptions, there's a right and a wrong way to do it. He'll just end up being one of those doctors that no one wants to work with.

 

[SocialistMD]

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

Wow. I went to school with some interesting people and have had some pretty bald-faced liars on my services as a resident, but I've never encountered anyone quite like that.

So far, I have had students make up "mandatory" conferences they "have" to attend, only to be busted by their classmates who I see walking by or scrubbed in and don't have a clue about the conference. My favorite, though, was the student who called in sick one day who we later saw looking very healthy out walking in shorts and a t-shirt when we had a spontaneous team lunch in a nearby neighborhood. It was awesome because she didn't even see us as she passed by. We paged her, but she didn't return the page. This brings me to my lesson of the day: Don't lie. Ever. Especially on your surgery rotation. If you do, you will most likely find yourself with another opportunity to learn that lesson the next year.

 

[MacGyver]

Don't lie. Ever. Especially on your surgery rotation. If you do, you will most likely find yourself with another opportunity to learn that lesson the next year.

ehhh, from my experience surgery residents and faculty are less likely to give a damn about what the students are doing compared to services like IM or one of the medicine subspecialties.

 

[SocialistMD]

ehhh, from my experience surgery residents and faculty are less likely to give a damn about what the students are doing compared to services like IM or one of the medicine subspecialties.

That's probably true, but it doesn't mean I'm okay with someone lying to me. Tell me you are going to study if that is what you are going to do. All I expect is that you are honest and that you work hard and in that order. If you aren't interested, you're right, I don't really care where you are, but don't tell me you are sick or that you have a conference when it isn't true.

 

[87138]

I went to school with some interesting people and have had some pretty bald-faced liars on my services as a resident

What's wrong with shaving?

 

[AwesomO]

We got a few characters in our class. One of whom has developed an almost legendary rep as someone who talks back to nurses, residents, even attendings. It doesn't matter who it is, he don't take crap from no one. He was in one of my rotations and the rest of us students would be in anticipation for the day's highlight when he would go off.

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

This guy isn't a med student behaving badly he's what med students should be. The thing I hated most about 3rd year was the underlying assumption that I had to cower to everyone in the hospital from the Chief of Staff to the high school volunteers.

Ha. How are his clinical evaluations so far?

I have a buddy who is even more abrasive than the student mentioned by the op. In third year he constantly recieved evals saying he was the best med student ever. Ironically I've always been more of a nice always apologize type of person. If someone gave me hard time I just let it slide. That got me crap evals in the beginning. Then I started acting like the student in the OP and my evals shot through the roof.

 

[kypdurron5]

What's wrong with shaving?

I guess when you're scraggly people expect you to lie >).

 

[travoltage]

That dude is my hero! I want to worship him!

macgyver i love your quote on your signature! its a badda$$

 

[sendwich]

This guy isn't a med student behaving badly he's what med students should be. The thing I hated most about 3rd year was the underlying assumption that I had to cower to everyone in the hospital from the Chief of Staff to the high school volunteers.

I have a buddy who is even more abrasive than the student mentioned by the op. In third year he constantly recieved evals saying he was the best med student ever. Ironically I've always been more of a nice always apologize type of person. If someone gave me hard time I just let it slide. That got me crap evals in the beginning. Then I started acting like the student in the OP and my evals shot through the roof.

seems counterintuitive. 😕 as$=bad eval not true?

 

[SocialistMD]

This guy isn't a med student behaving badly he's what med students should be. The thing I hated most about 3rd year was the underlying assumption that I had to cower to everyone in the hospital from the Chief of Staff to the high school volunteers.

There's a difference between standing up for yourself and being a d-bag. A lot of it is how your message is conveyed. I joke with the nursing/ancillary staff all the time, but if you saw what I said in type, it would look atrocious, but I've established that rapport with them that they know I don't mean anything by what I say. If it is said in jest, or more importantly taken in jest, it is fine. However, smarting off to your boss or simply walking away because they "said you could" isn't a habit I would develop if you want to remain on good terms with your team.

 

[AwesomO]

seems counterintuitive. 😕 as$=bad eval not true?

I think you're having the knee jerk reaction most people get. For some reason there is a wide spread belief that if a med student (or even resident) doesn't roll over and play dead at the first sign of conflict he/she is being jerk. Look at the OP if you read it you'll notice that said person never started any trouble but was responding to things said to him.

Here I'll give you a story about my buddy I was talking about. We're on IM together and he asks a nurse in a very polite way "Could you please get vitals for room X. Are attedings get mad if we don't have vitals in our notes and I really need to make sure she doesn't have a fever" Nurse responds by throwing a hissy fit in the hallway in front of everyone and berating him. Later in the afternoon my buddy actually pulls this nurse aside and tells her "Look your behavior this morning was totally unacceptable. Neither of us are here for a pissing contest we're here to help the patient. In the future we need to work together and not throw a hissy fit when something needs to get done."

Now in any other field thats how you are taught to resolve conflicts. Pull said person aside and have a polite discussion. But upon reading I garuntee you your's and everyone else's reaction was "😱 OMG he said that to a nurse! What a jerk, he IS JUST A MEDICAL STUDENT!"

There's a difference between standing up for yourself and being a d-bag. A lot of it is how your message is conveyed. I joke with the nursing/ancillary staff all the time, but if you saw what I said in type, it would look atrocious, but I've established that rapport with them that they know I don't mean anything by what I say. If it is said in jest, or more importantly taken in jest, it is fine. However, smarting off to your boss or simply walking away because they "said you could" isn't a habit I would develop if you want to remain on good terms with your team.

I agree however I think you are doing the same thing as sendwich, that is having that knee jerk reaction of "Med student not rolling over = D-Bag."

I agree with you that a lot of your message is how it is conveyed. You shouldn't go around snapping at people every time they give you a little sass. Especially since most of the time it's all in good fun. But if someone is being an *** then by all means you should be free to call them out on it.

 

[OncoCaP]

From what I've been told, confronting someone is high risk. To the extent that you can help it, I would pick my battles.

 

[Blesbok]

This guy isn't a med student behaving badly he's what med students should be. The thing I hated most about 3rd year was the underlying assumption that I had to cower to everyone in the hospital from the Chief of Staff to the high school volunteers.

I have a buddy who is even more abrasive than the student mentioned by the op. In third year he constantly recieved evals saying he was the best med student ever. Ironically I've always been more of a nice always apologize type of person. If someone gave me hard time I just let it slide. That got me crap evals in the beginning. Then I started acting like the student in the OP and my evals shot through the roof.

There is a big difference between cowering in fear and respecting your superiors.

 

[njbmd]

We got a few characters in our class. One of whom has developed an almost legendary rep as someone who talks back to nurses, residents, even attendings. It doesn't matter who it is, he don't take crap from no one. He was in one of my rotations and the rest of us students would be in anticipation for the day's highlight when he would go off.

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

You got any characters in your school?

Had a MD-Ph.D candidate that we voted "Most likely to Blow Us Away with an Uzi". He ended up failing out school because he couldn't perform in Physical Diagnosis (a course the rest of us received Honors). He had some serious mental health issues (paranoid schizophrenia). He was a John Belushi look-alike (not talented) who walked around in camouflage and combat boots.

We had a former Olympic gymnast who would perform hand stands off the professor's podium and we had a former Miss USA state representative who had a definite beauty pageant aura about her. Other than those folks, the rest of the class was pretty average for medical students. Did have more than one or two "class clowns" who did things like toss a nerf brain around the classroom during Neuroscience lecture or would bring in a pillow during psychiatry lecture and hang a sign that said "Sleep Study" around his neck as he snored in the back of the class.

 

[Mayhem]

Oh yeah, we have a beauty queen in our class too. She's very girly and make a spalsh on paeds when she turned up wearing a blue polka dot suit with matching hat. And I'm talking big sun hat like she was on a beach somewhere. The kids loved it but everyone else has been giggling about it since. I love her to death but sometimes talking to her can feel like she's pushing her platform (which was women's health although she want to be a plastic surgeon...go figure).

 

[71263]

We got a few characters in our class. One of whom has developed an almost legendary rep as someone who talks back to nurses, residents, even attendings. It doesn't matter who it is, he don't take crap from no one. He was in one of my rotations and the rest of us students would be in anticipation for the day's highlight when he would go off.

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

You got any characters in your school?

Dude... this guy is my hero...

 

[notdeadyet]

Here I'll give you a story about my buddy I was talking about. We're on IM together and he asks a nurse in a very polite way "Could you please get vitals for room X. Are attedings get mad if we don't have vitals in our notes and I really need to make sure she doesn't have a fever" Nurse responds by throwing a hissy fit in the hallway in front of everyone and berating him. Later in the afternoon my buddy actually pulls this nurse aside and tells her "Look your behavior this morning was totally unacceptable. Neither of us are here for a pissing contest we're here to help the patient. In the future we need to work together and not throw a hissy fit when something needs to get done."

I think a recognition of place helps deal with the bull$hit. A reaction like that from a nurse sure sounds inappropriate. But your buddy's lecture is a little amusing.

If I'm a nurse with 20 years on the job and a 23 year old kid wet behind the ears lectures me on professionalism and how team healthcare works, it'd be hard to not laugh in his face and pinch his cheeks.

No reason to let yourself be outright abused, but do keep perspective here. In this environment where everyone works together for years, you going to be seen as a newbie rotating there for a matter of weeks. In office-speak, you are a temp. Don't let folks treat you like a doormat, but also don't be a temp with a big ego. No one is universally hated more. The fact that you will someday be a doctor is no doubt impressive to you and your family, but probably doesn't much impress the people who will be working here years after you leave for your next rotation.

Temping sucks in a hospital or in an office. But I'd keep in mind your place in the pecking order to help visualize how lectures, criticsims or complaints are going to be received.

 

[kypdurron5]

If I'm a nurse with 20 years on the job and a 23 year old kid wet behind the ears lectures me on professionalism and how team healthcare works, it'd be hard to not laugh in his face and pinch his cheeks.

The trouble is that a lot of nurses have that attitude. However, there are a lot of downright bad, lazy nurses out there. A lot of good ones, sure, but it's the bad ones that really stand out. They also tend to have a sense of tenure, and entitlement about their jobs. I can definitely understand situations where these people may need to be put in their place- but it sounds like the student from the OP is just a douche to everyone. Being on good terms with everyone on your team is what gives you the freedom to call out those who need to be.

Here's a nurses-gone-wild post from allbleedingstops: http://allbleedingstops.blogspot.com/2007/12/death-of-thousand-little-cuts.html

 

[71263]

The trouble is that a lot of nurses have that attitude. However, there are a lot of downright bad, lazy nurses out there. A lot of good ones, sure, but it's the bad ones that really stand out. They also tend to have a sense of tenure, and entitlement about their jobs. I can definitely understand situations where these people may need to be put in their place- but it sounds like the student from the OP is just a douche to everyone. Being on good terms with everyone on your team is what gives you the freedom to call out those who need to be.

Here's a nurses-gone-wild post from allbleedingstops: http://allbleedingstops.blogspot.com/2007/12/death-of-thousand-little-cuts.html

👍👍

We all realize that nurses have been working for a while, work hard, and are greatly needed on the floor. I never disrespect anyone who works at the hospital, and if I need something, I ask politely. Most of my interactions with nurses have gone just fine.

Therefore, I dont think its unreasonble for someone to knock some of these egotistical nurses off of their high horses if they try to give you attitude when you havent done anything wrong.

 

[SamusLives]

I don't know anybody as bad as the person described by the OP, but I have run into a few interesting characters.

One person I know didn't like "call". So they would not show up, b/c they had a really bad headache, or their stomach hurt. Somehow they were able to get away with that BS and still get a good evaluation. Frankly, if I was 5 minutes late, I'd get chewed out and have my a$$ handed to me.

I knew another person who didn't like "scut work", he'd complain that he'd rather be in surgery. This guy was a total gunner, and he'd even try to pimp the residents...pimping goes down, not up.

Some people get away with a lot...

 

[notdeadyet]

The trouble is that a lot of nurses have that attitude. However, there are a lot of downright bad, lazy nurses out there. A lot of good ones, sure, but it's the bad ones that really stand out. They also tend to have a sense of tenure, and entitlement about their jobs. I can definitely understand situations where these people may need to be put in their place-

I completely agree with you on this. I just don't feel it's necessarily the most brilliant thing for the medical student to be the one who does it. You carry no weight. You're not an employee. Hell, you're paying to be there. You have less experience than almost anyone there.

Confronting people from that platform will lead to further nastiness or just laughter.

but hey, to each their own. Many ways to skin a cat and all that...

 

[Tired]

As a 4th year student on an away rotation, I had one ward nurse who was always taking shots at me and giving me crap for things the team did.

Finally told her, "You know, you better pray I don't come back here as an intern, because I will ride your a$$ the entire time." She laughed.

Now I'm an intern at that hospital. And I crack on her every chance I get. And she always always calls me "Dr. Tired". 😎

 

[DoctaJay]

The trouble is that a lot of nurses have that attitude. However, there are a lot of downright bad, lazy nurses out there. A lot of good ones, sure, but it's the bad ones that really stand out. They also tend to have a sense of tenure, and entitlement about their jobs. I can definitely understand situations where these people may need to be put in their place- but it sounds like the student from the OP is just a douche to everyone. Being on good terms with everyone on your team is what gives you the freedom to call out those who need to be.

Here's a nurses-gone-wild post from allbleedingstops: http://allbleedingstops.blogspot.com/2007/12/death-of-thousand-little-cuts.html

I agree. I will honestly yield when I know I'm in the wrong or if I don't know for sure what the right answer is. But if someone is wrong, and is being beligerant about, I will have to call them out on it, regardless of 40 years of experience. I respect the hierarchy to a point.

 

[njbmd]

I forgot about the guy who would have a bad case of intestinal gas after lunch. It was "flatus-city" within 8 feet of him. One day one of my classmates smelled something, stood up and shouted to him to get some Phazyme and Beano and take it before lunch. She went on a 2-minute tirade that ended when he left the room with a red face. We all laughed until we cried but the air in there was better after that.

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

In all fairness to your ballsy classmate, I'd have to high-five him on this one. Our rounds are very formal, and it irritates the **** outta me when a resident/student thinks out loud and is continuously interruptive during a case presentation.


I'm curious as to how the resident reacted after getting verball bitch-slapped....

 

[vtucci]

I have seen a student fall asleep at the table when the IM team was running the list. The attending, obviously annoyed, barked "I am sorry are we boring you?" Our team was not post-call (I have heard about other incidents similar to this when a team was post-call and it not sitting as badly with the attending). Fortunately for him, this attending was not grading the students.

I heard a story about a classmate who challenged the plan of one of the IM consult services for one of his patients as he believed it was not in the patient's best interests. The consult service was so outraged that a medical student was questioning a decision by their team that they made him persona non grata.

I have heard stories about students not showing up for clinical duties and lying about it saying that they did (but have not witnessed any myself first hand as I do not think this is professional behavior).

 

[la petite mort]

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

That kind of behavior is repulsive. I bet most of his superiors (that nurse included) weren't even trying especially to give him crap, but his massive ego - which probably hides real insecurity - interprets everything, even when people are just trying to do their job, which includes underestimating interns (as they should), as a veiled put-down.

I really loathe that kind of kid, because teachers usually react to them in two different ways, and both responses damage other students. One is that they automatically hold them in ridicule, and associate that kind of immaturity with the rest of the class. The other is that they for some reason erroneously praise him or her for speaking his mind, and then look down their nose at the rest of the students for being 'meek', when in fact the reason that we usually don't spout off in a way that's incorrect for our station is that we don't have a problem with whatever the berk was complaining about or we were just plain taught good manners.

 

[gujuDoc]

We got a few characters in our class. One of whom has developed an almost legendary rep as someone who talks back to nurses, residents, even attendings. It doesn't matter who it is, he don't take crap from no one. He was in one of my rotations and the rest of us students would be in anticipation for the day's highlight when he would go off.

Once he was presenting a patient and the resident kept interrupting him and asking him if he had asked this or that question from the patient. Finally after some interruptions he said "The patient is in his room if you want to ask him your questions, but don't interrupt me anymore during this presentation."

Another time he was trying to print something on the wards and the printer jammed and a nurse said in an accusatory, condescending tone "Did you break my printer?" To which he responded "This is the hospital's printer, not yours." This riled her up because she then asked in an uppity tone for his name. He gave it to her, then without missing a beat added something like "Did you get that or would you like me to spell it out for you?"

You got any characters in your school?

Is it bad that I actually find this guy funny rather then an a--hole??? I think smarta$$ and sarcastic types make me crack up but I'd be scared to try that for fear that it be taken the wrong way or cost me a bad evaluation if I was in his position.

 

[gujuDoc]

That kind of behavior is repulsive. I bet most of his superiors (that nurse included) weren't even trying especially to give him crap, but his massive ego - which probably hides real insecurity - interprets everything, even when people are just trying to do their job, which includes underestimating interns (as they should), as a veiled put-down.

I really loathe that kind of kid, because teachers usually react to them in two different ways, and both responses damage other students. One is that they automatically hold them in ridicule, and associate that kind of immaturity with the rest of the class. The other is that they for some reason erroneously praise him or her for speaking his mind, and then look down their nose at the rest of the students for being 'meek', when in fact the reason that we usually don't spout off in a way that's incorrect for our station is that we don't have a problem with whatever the berk was complaining about or we were just plain taught good manners.

I've heard of worse. I heard a story from an MS II once about a guy who was really rude to a guest speaker. The guest speaker was a mother and her 7 year old son who didn't know that his illness had come with a life expectancy of 12 years of age only and the classmate of my friend asked this kid how it felt to know he was going to die in 5 years.

I heard that the kid and his parent and physician walked out really disgusted and then stopped coming so this years students couldn't get them as a guest speaker.

 

[gujuDoc]

As a 4th year student on an away rotation, I had one ward nurse who was always taking shots at me and giving me crap for things the team did.

Finally told her, "You know, you better pray I don't come back here as an intern, because I will ride your a$$ the entire time." She laughed.

Now I'm an intern at that hospital. And I crack on her every chance I get. And she always always calls me "Dr. Tired". 😎

This is why we love you! 🙂

 

[ATPMD]

I heard a story from an MS II once about a guy who was really rude to a guest speaker. The guest speaker was a mother and her 7 year old son who didn't know that his illness had come with a life expectancy of 12 years of age only and the classmate of my friend asked this kid how it felt to know he was going to die in 5 years.

Not a very kind or tactful question, but I'd hardly call it rude...

 

[nonesuchgirl]

Not a very kind or tactful question, but I'd hardly call it rude...

It's rude because it's rude to assume that Mom's told her second grader he won't live to see high school. You don't do that until the game's up. Otherwise you get a dead kid early.

It's rude because you never say something like, "Hey, kid, how's it feel to know you're a goner?" to someone whose primary concern is basic multiplication and playing dodgeball.

It's rude because it's neither kind nor tactful. That's what rude means.

 

[ATPMD]

Meh...I wouldn't have put the question that way if I asked it, but I wouldn't call the guy rude either. Oh well, different opinions that's all.

 

[gujuDoc]

It's rude because it's rude to assume that Mom's told her second grader he won't live to see high school. You don't do that until the game's up. Otherwise you get a dead kid early.

It's rude because you never say something like, "Hey, kid, how's it feel to know you're a goner?" to someone whose primary concern is basic multiplication and playing dodgeball.

It's rude because it's neither kind nor tactful. That's what rude means.

And even if they were like the cancer patients at the clinic I volunteer at who know their condition, it is still wrong to say something that rude to a kid. Kids take those kind of things really sensitively. I should know, I suffered with a terminal albeit not life threatening illness since it could be managed with medication but nonetheless it didn't make it easier and at that age I was far more sensitive to such a question then I am now.

 

[nonesuchgirl]

And even if they were like the cancer patients at the clinic I volunteer at who know their condition, it is still wrong to say something that rude to a kid. Kids take those kind of things really sensitively. I should know, I suffered with a terminal albeit not life threatening illness since it could be managed with medication but nonetheless it didn't make it easier and at that age I was far more sensitive to such a question then I am now.

Exactly.

7yo's still believe in fairy stories. They don't know what "death" really is- or I hope not.

I hope your condition is well-controlled? (Right word?)

 

[vtucci]

If this is the same incident that happened during my first year in biochem clinical correlation, it was not as bad as has been previously made out. The child had Alport's syndrome. He was not 7 but was 11 or 12. His life expectancy was not until 12 years old but closer late 30s/early 40s (most Alport's male patients develop end-stage renal disease by age 40).

The question was not the direct "how does it feel that you are going to die in 5 years" but rather "how do you feel about the natural progression of your disease". It was pretty obvious that the patient did not understand the thrust of the question and he replied that he was not concerned. Our class was informed at the break that the mother had not told her son about his disease. Just about everyone in our class had assumed that the patient was aware of his condition as he was a regular at College of Medicine presentations and thought it was wrong that the mother had not explained to the patient the nature of his disease as he was almost a teenager but still thought it tactless of our classmate to ask the question.

 

[ATPMD]

If this is the same incident that happened during my first year in biochem clinical correlation, it was not as bad as has been previously made out. The child had Alport's syndrome. He was not 7 but was 11 or 12. His life expectancy was not until 12 years old but closer late 30s/early 40s (most Alport's male patients develop end-stage renal disease by age 40).

The question was not the direct "how does it feel that you are going to die in 5 years" but rather "how do you feel about the natural progression of your disease". It was pretty obvious that the patient did not understand the thrust of the question and he replied that he was not concerned. Our class was informed at the break that the mother had not told her son about his disease. Just about everyone in our class had assumed that the patient was aware of his condition as he was a regular at College of Medicine presentations and thought it was wrong that the mother had not explained to the patient the nature of his disease as he was almost a teenager but still thought it tactless of our classmate to ask the question.

Not taking sides as much as playing devil's advocate here...I wonder why the school admin didn't inform the class ahead of time.

 

[gujuDoc]

If this is the same incident that happened during my first year in biochem clinical correlation, it was not as bad as has been previously made out. The child had Alport's syndrome. He was not 7 but was 11 or 12. His life expectancy was not until 12 years old but closer late 30s/early 40s (most Alport's male patients develop end-stage renal disease by age 40).

The question was not the direct "how does it feel that you are going to die in 5 years" but rather "how do you feel about the natural progression of your disease". It was pretty obvious that the patient did not understand the thrust of the question and he replied that he was not concerned. Our class was informed at the break that the mother had not told her son about his disease. Just about everyone in our class had assumed that the patient was aware of his condition as he was a regular at College of Medicine presentations and thought it was wrong that the mother had not explained to the patient the nature of his disease as he was almost a teenager but still thought it tactless of our classmate to ask the question.

No you are a 3rd year right??? This was last year in the class below you unless you dropped down a year.

 

[gujuDoc]

Exactly.

7yo's still believe in fairy stories. They don't know what "death" really is- or I hope not.

I hope your condition is well-controlled? (Right word?)

I was blessed when I was 15 and was able to get off the medication I was on slowly and have been off of it since I was 18. If you are curious, I was epileptic but haven't had seizures since I was 11. I know of people who have it much worse and I truly feel for epileptics who weren't as fortunate as me but at that time when I was dealing with it my parents put severe constraints on me on what I was and was not allowed to do and put the fear of god into me about getting seizures and what not so I know what kids who have terminal illnesses go through. On the other side, I'm continually amazed by the resilience of kids who deal with terminal illnesses every time I go to All Children's Hospital's out patient clinic in Tampa and work with the cancer, SSD, and ITP patients there. Despite their chemo and the effects it had on their health, they are just so resilient and energetic and talented.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Not taking sides as much as playing devil's advocate here...I wonder why the school admin didn't inform the class ahead of time.

That's a good point. When we had these types of panels, they always talked with us beforehand to let us know what types of questions the patient was comfortable receiving.

I agree that it's useful to ask these types of questions sometimes, but these patient presentations probably aren't the best time and place, especially when the patient is a kid. Did I mention I really don't like these pediatric patient panels? 🙂

 

[gujuDoc]

If this is the same incident that happened during my first year in biochem clinical correlation, it was not as bad as has been previously made out. The child had Alport's syndrome. He was not 7 but was 11 or 12. His life expectancy was not until 12 years old but closer late 30s/early 40s (most Alport's male patients develop end-stage renal disease by age 40).

The question was not the direct "how does it feel that you are going to die in 5 years" but rather "how do you feel about the natural progression of your disease". It was pretty obvious that the patient did not understand the thrust of the question and he replied that he was not concerned. Our class was informed at the break that the mother had not told her son about his disease. Just about everyone in our class had assumed that the patient was aware of his condition as he was a regular at College of Medicine presentations and thought it was wrong that the mother had not explained to the patient the nature of his disease as he was almost a teenager but still thought it tactless of our classmate to ask the question.

I just looked at your signature again and it seems you are a 3rd year.My friend is a 2nd year who had told me this. So if a similar situation happened in your class that would have to be an isolated incidence separate of what happened in his class. I'm confused how it could be the same situation if you are not in the current 2nd year class.

 

[Psychopathology]

I enjoy the stories! Wouldn't it be something if we could all go around saying what's on our mind without there being any consequences, and particularly at this point in our training?

 

[mdgator]

I have to say, the title of this thread certainly caught my interest, and I was let-down by the actual content.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Hah everyone wants to be House.

epic fail.