Med vs. Vet

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YankeesfanZF5

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So I am a sophmore getting ready to decide what to major in and what area of medicine I would like to practice. Taken most of thepre reqs for vet school (just need micro and cell) and done most of my stuff for pre-med. Shadowed both vets and docs. Work at a vet clinic part-time and could probably get LORs from 4 vets. Really love small animal &equine, livestock I can deal with. I like the idea, prestige and livestyle of being a human doctor (probably family med). Think its awesome how vets do so many different things whereas docs have to specialize. Sadly I am afraid I will not make enoughmoney being a vet to live the lifestyle I want. (Nice house, nice vehicles, lots of travel and vacations) I thought the family med docs I shadowed were cool down to earth guys who had a great career that they enjoyed and could afford a great lifestyle. I only have a 3.75 gpa, science 3.65 also I go to some random state school no one has ever heard of but do have one med school in state. Maybe some of you have been in my position? How did some of you guys makethe decision to go med instead of vet? Also, a little afraid of debt. Any good ways to getthat paid back if you go oos?
 
I'm going to give you a lot of standard pieces of advice that people give here and future posters can feel free to correct me or add their own thoughts.

1) prestige is a terrible reason to go into medicine. Medicine is a hard life. You have to make a lot of sacrifices in all other parts of your life in order to become doctor. Do you think that the thought of "wow everyone thinks I'm really awesome because I'm a doctor" will sustain you through the 80 hours/week of residency, the grueling marathon of medical school, the time spent away from your family because you have an obligation to your patients, the missed kids baseball games, etc?

2) I don't know where you got the idea that most doctors have a good lifestyle, but I don't think this is true. Some specialties have more controllable lifestyles, but residency is hard and long for everyone and even in the lifestyle friendly specialties, you also have call, paperwork, conferences, and consults which increase the number of hours/week you're working. You have to get up early and come home late (or not at all sometimes).

3) Doctors make a decent amount of money, but not enough to make it by itself worth the initial monetary and temporal sacrifice you make for your training. Some excellent posters such as mimelim and Law2Doc have made posts about how much money a doctors actually makes compared to other professions. I'm not going to tag them here because I don't want to bother them (they're busy doctors 😉 ), but if you search through their post history, you should be able to find their relevant posts. As an average doctor, you will most likely have a decent house, a new but not fancy car, an occasional vacation, but nothing extravagant.

4) Although specialization is increasingly common, there are still many doctors who are not specialized (by which I assume you mean primary care). In fact, these are the most desperately needed doctors and are also the most "general". There are pros and cons to going this route which I will not elaborate upon here.

5) Most people here weren't choosing between med and vet, so I don't think you'll get too many helpful responses there. They are fundamentally different, at least in my opinion.

6) Your GPA is fine for medical school, if that's what you decide to do
 
I'm going to give you a lot of standard pieces of advice that people give here and future posters can feel free to correct me or add their own thoughts.

1) prestige is a terrible reason to go into medicine. Medicine is a hard life. You have to make a lot of sacrifices in all other parts of your life in order to become doctor. Do you think that the thought of "wow everyone thinks I'm really awesome because I'm a doctor" will sustain you through the 80 hours/week of residency, the grueling marathon of medical school, the time spent away from your family because you have an obligation to your patients, the missed kids baseball games, etc?

2) I don't know where you got the idea that most doctors have a good lifestyle, but I don't think this is true. Some specialties have more controllable lifestyles, but residency is hard and long for everyone and even in the lifestyle friendly specialties, you also have call, paperwork, conferences, and consults which increase the number of hours/week you're working. You have to get up early and come home late (or not at all sometimes).

3) Doctors make a decent amount of money, but not enough to make it by itself worth the initial monetary and temporal sacrifice you make for your training. Some excellent posters such as mimelim and Law2Doc have made posts about how much money a doctors actually makes compared to other professions. I'm not going to tag them here because I don't want to bother them (they're busy doctors 😉 ), but if you search through their post history, you should be able to find their relevant posts. As an average doctor, you will most likely have a decent house, a new but not fancy car, an occasional vacation, but nothing extravagant.

4) Although specialization is increasingly common, there are still many doctors who are not specialized (by which I assume you mean primary care). In fact, these are the most desperately needed doctors and are also the most "general". There are pros and cons to going this route which I will not elaborate upon here.

5) Most people here weren't choosing between med and vet, so I don't think you'll get too many helpful responses there. They are fundamentally different, at least in my opinion.

6) Your GPA is fine for medical school, if that's what you decide to do
Thanks was just wondering. I posted a similar thing in the pre-vet and the responses were interesting. Prestige is not that important to me it just seems docs get treated better than vets. I think docs make a good living and I think primary care (where my interest is) gets paid alright for all the schooling, work and BS they have to go through. I am not in it for the money it just seems better on the human side of medicine. This has been a decision I have been trying to make for a while. I think the only way to do it is probably more shadowing! I will take your advice and look at their posts about money! I really appreciate the honest and quick response! Thank you!
 
I'm going to give you a lot of standard pieces of advice that people give here and future posters can feel free to correct me or add their own thoughts.

1) prestige is a terrible reason to go into medicine. Medicine is a hard life. You have to make a lot of sacrifices in all other parts of your life in order to become doctor. Do you think that the thought of "wow everyone thinks I'm really awesome because I'm a doctor" will sustain you through the 80 hours/week of residency, the grueling marathon of medical school, the time spent away from your family because you have an obligation to your patients, the missed kids baseball games, etc?

2) I don't know where you got the idea that most doctors have a good lifestyle, but I don't think this is true. Some specialties have more controllable lifestyles, but residency is hard and long for everyone and even in the lifestyle friendly specialties, you also have call, paperwork, conferences, and consults which increase the number of hours/week you're working. You have to get up early and come home late (or not at all sometimes).

3) Doctors make a decent amount of money, but not enough to make it by itself worth the initial monetary and temporal sacrifice you make for your training. Some excellent posters such as mimelim and Law2Doc have made posts about how much money a doctors actually makes compared to other professions. I'm not going to tag them here because I don't want to bother them (they're busy doctors 😉 ), but if you search through their post history, you should be able to find their relevant posts. As an average doctor, you will most likely have a decent house, a new but not fancy car, an occasional vacation, but nothing extravagant.

4) Although specialization is increasingly common, there are still many doctors who are not specialized (by which I assume you mean primary care). In fact, these are the most desperately needed doctors and are also the most "general". There are pros and cons to going this route which I will not elaborate upon here.

5) Most people here weren't choosing between med and vet, so I don't think you'll get too many helpful responses there. They are fundamentally different, at least in my opinion.

6) Your GPA is fine for medical school, if that's what you decide to do
Also, your avatar is awesome is the gyarados going to eat the magikarp?
 
So I am a sophmore getting ready to decide what to major in and what area of medicine I would like to practice. Taken most of thepre reqs for vet school (just need micro and cell) and done most of my stuff for pre-med. Shadowed both vets and docs. Work at a vet clinic part-time and could probably get LORs from 4 vets. Really love small animal &equine, livestock I can deal with. I like the idea, prestige and livestyle of being a human doctor (probably family med). Think its awesome how vets do so many different things whereas docs have to specialize. Sadly I am afraid I will not make enoughmoney being a vet to live the lifestyle I want. (Nice house, nice vehicles, lots of travel and vacations) I thought the family med docs I shadowed were cool down to earth guys who had a great career that they enjoyed and could afford a great lifestyle. I only have a 3.75 gpa, science 3.65 also I go to some random state school no one has ever heard of but do have one med school in state. Maybe some of you have been in my position? How did some of you guys makethe decision to go med instead of vet? Also, a little afraid of debt. Any good ways to getthat paid back if you go oos?

Do not do Vet unless you are 1000% in love with the field and animals. You will be far unpaid, yet still have the debt of a med student. I have so many friends in the field and they acknowledge what a horrible return on investment Vet School is. The only reason Vet would be worth it is the intrinsic enjoyment of working with animals. Human medicine has a slew of issues of it's own, but at least the lowest paying specialties make 200k per year.

The only ways in which Vet beats Med are hours (9-5) 40 hour week and slightly less Bureaucracy and Government BS. Engineers after 4 years of college make 100k whereas starting vets can make as little as 70k. Maybe 90-130 later on.


Caveat: There are some very high demand jobs in Vet that are super good for pay and prestige, but realize these are very limited.
 
Also:

I looked into Vet at one point in time but realized ironically that I actually loved animals far to much to be a good objective veterinarian. It would truly destroy me to experience the sadness of Vet Medicine. I've already accepted that the human world can be horrific, I couldn't spend 40 years dealing with the constant reminders that the animal world can be just as bad.
 
Also:

I looked into Vet at one point in time but realized ironically that I actually loved animals far to much to be a good objective veterinarian. It would truly destroy me to experience the sadness of Vet Medicine. I've already accepted that the human world can be horrific, I couldn't spend 40 years dealing with the constant reminders that the animal world can be just as bad.

Sick kids? Sure it's sad but I can stay objective from what I've experienced so far.

Sick dogs absolutely destroy me.
 
Sick kids? Sure it's sad but I can stay objective from what I've experienced so far.

Sick dogs absolutely destroy me.

Yeah, I used to dream of becoming a vet, until I realized I don't think I would make very good choices or be a good vet because I'd be too attached to the animals. Case in point:

My dog literally just got spayed yesterday and is recovering post-op. I know that she's probably still coming off the anesthesia and the vet said not to give her painkillers yet until the next day. BUT, hearing her whine and cry for hours from recovering really made it tempting for me to give her painkillers to stop the pain. Also made me realize I couldn't be a vet because I can't handle seeing/hearing animals in pain. (For some odd reason, humans don't bother me as much....maybe because they understand that while procedures are uncomfortable, it's ultimately for their better health?)
 
Yeah, I used to dream of becoming a vet, until I realized I don't think I would make very good choices or be a good vet because I'd be too attached to the animals. Case in point:

My dog literally just got spayed yesterday and is recovering post-op. I know that she's probably still coming off the anesthesia and the vet said not to give her painkillers yet until the next day. BUT, hearing her whine and cry for hours from recovering really made it tempting for me to give her painkillers to stop the pain. Also made me realize I couldn't be a vet because I can't handle seeing/hearing animals in pain. (For some odd reason, humans don't bother me as much....maybe because they understand that while procedures are uncomfortable, it's ultimately for their better health?)

I literally think I would start bawling every time I had to euthanize a cat or dog.
 
Also:

I looked into Vet at one point in time but realized ironically that I actually loved animals far to much to be a good objective veterinarian. It would truly destroy me to experience the sadness of Vet Medicine. I've already accepted that the human world can be horrific, I couldn't spend 40 years dealing with the constant reminders that the animal world can be just as bad.
Good thing I hate people
 
So what they don't tell you, and by "they" I mean med-students and advisors who have never practiced medicine is that you essentially have to choose where you are happier. If you are happier outside, in the rain, delivering a breech calf, then be a vet. You can tailor your practice to what you want. It depends also on where you want to live! Do you like cities? Bigger towns? Are you ok with being a rural vet? Remember that most vets get paid upfront or during an actual financial negotiation with the payer/owner/customer. Prestige is something I get on a visceral level. I always thought there was a hierarchy in medicine (as a high school idiot) but there isn't.

I don't understand all plumbing physics/mechanics and I don't get AC power subtleties - so I hire someone to do the complicated crap for me.

We all lose patients. Dogs or humans, cattle or octogenarians, organisms die.

Do what you want. Be happy in your choice. Go with your gut, your gut will tell you what patients are sick, when you need to act, and your gut is likely telling you which path to take. Don't fight it.
 
First of all, Med school > Vet school. Now lets see why.

1) Most human beings over value the idea of "loving what they do". Do the same crap for 5+ years, and you'll be bored. A job becomes a job after 5-10 years. Period. Whether its an engineer, or a doctor, or a vet....a job becomes a job for most people.

2) Most people if given the option between work vs vacation will likely say they are happier when they are at vacation or with family etc. Essentially, very few people will say they are the happiest at work. My point is...everyone says "do what makes you happy", having a family, having a life outside of work makes most people happy.

3) Money. Having pieces of paper called money in your wallet likely won't make a difference. But having that dream vacation to spain and staying at a luxurious 5 star resort without thinking of finances will probably add to your general happiness.

4). Wedgedawg is right, prestige isn't a good reason to go into medicine. But, he makes residency fairly miserable. A lot of specialties in medicine DO NOT do 80 hrs a week even during residency. Lets see...PMNR, Derm, radiology, EM, Family, psych, Neurology...likely a lot more which I'm not aware of. I interviewed at some EM programs where they did 18 8 hour shifts a month, which is far less than 80 hrs a week. Ofcourse EM has a lot of ICU months (6 or so at most programs), but eh....still quite better than 80 hrs a week.

5) Wedgedawg talks about the initial monetary and time sacrifice physicians make and says that its usually not worth what doctors have to go throguh to become docs. Really depends on what you go into. If you do become a family medicine doctor, most likely the 180k job with the stress of seeing patients every 15-20 mins might not be worth it. Family medicine compensation keeps decreasing, and they are now having to squeeze in more and more patients into their schedule. So yes, most likely that monetary sacrifice isn't quite enough if you go into family med or peds. But there are some other really great fields out there. When you do IM, you can become a hospitalist and make between 200-250k depending on location and work 1 week on, 1 week off. Which is great for raising a family, spending time doing the things yuo enjoy doing. Another great option is Emergency medicine, working 15 10 hour shifts a month and taking home 300-400k depending on location. In texas, you can work at a moderate volume ED, have scribes writing your notes, and you making 250/hr easily. What that means is that you work 3 days a week, and do whatever the hell you want and enjoy your life (if you want to go on a vacation or a 3 day cruise every other week. You sure as hell can afford that as well). And ofcourse then there are fields like radiology, anesthesiology, derm...But I'd still take family medicine over becoming a vet. But then again, I'd never do FM 😉 I think you should go into medicine with a open mind. There are many specialties that you don't know about.

6) 80k salary after 4 years more education and 160-180k debt is just the worst financial decision. If you like both options equally, pick the one with the bigger compensation. Lets me explain what 80k after 4 years and 180k debt means.

So the take home income after taxes on 80k is roughly around 56-58k. By the time you finish school, your 180k of debt has become 200k (6.8% interest). Your interest alone will cost you 13k a year. So, once you start making money, your 58k after paying JUST interest on your loan will be 45k. Now that doesnt even touch the principle. You'll likely have to pay 20k a year for 15 years to get rid of your loan in total. So your 58k in reality is 38k of actual working income after everything 🙂 Now...like most 30 year olds you'd be thinking about buying a home, family, kids, saving for school for children etc...Good luck doing that with the 38k that you have left after paying just your loan and taxes 🙂 Anyone who says don't make a decision based on what you'll make, hasn't quite thought about everything. I don't know about you...but after 8 yrs of education, if I struggled to save up for my children's college, I'd be stressed and in life (ding ding ding...see how the lack of money can cause stress. Money might not make you happy, but the lack of it can definitely cause stress and unhappiness).

What's the alternate life of a doctor? Lets say you become a hospitalist in Texas. 250k. That's 166k after taxes. And hell you could pay off your loans in 2-3 years if you wanted. Then at 30, you can finally buy a home, catch up on life, start a family (kids are expensive), go on decent vacations, have a lot of time off of work as you'll do 1 week on 1 week off. Have a lot of time with people you care about. And things only get better if you get into EM, derm, anesthesia, optho...
 
First of all, Med school > Vet school. Now lets see why.

1) Most human beings over value the idea of "loving what they do". Do the same crap for 5+ years, and you'll be bored. A job becomes a job after 5-10 years. Period. Whether its an engineer, or a doctor, or a vet....a job becomes a job for most people.

2) Most people if given the option between work vs vacation will likely say they are happier when they are at vacation or with family etc. Essentially, very few people will say they are the happiest at work. My point is...everyone says "do what makes you happy", having a family, having a life outside of work makes most people happy.

3) Money. Having pieces of paper called money in your wallet likely won't make a difference. But having that dream vacation to spain and staying at a luxurious 5 star resort without thinking of finances will probably add to your general happiness.

4). Wedgedawg is right, prestige isn't a good reason to go into medicine. But, he makes residency fairly miserable. A lot of specialties in medicine DO NOT do 80 hrs a week even during residency. Lets see...PMNR, Derm, radiology, EM, Family, psych, Neurology...likely a lot more which I'm not aware of. I interviewed at some EM programs where they did 18 8 hour shifts a month, which is far less than 80 hrs a week. Ofcourse EM has a lot of ICU months (6 or so at most programs), but eh....still quite better than 80 hrs a week.

5) Wedgedawg talks about the initial monetary and time sacrifice physicians make and says that its usually not worth what doctors have to go throguh to become docs. Really depends on what you go into. If you do become a family medicine doctor, most likely the 180k job with the stress of seeing patients every 15-20 mins might not be worth it. Family medicine compensation keeps decreasing, and they are now having to squeeze in more and more patients into their schedule. So yes, most likely that monetary sacrifice isn't quite enough if you go into family med or peds. But there are some other really great fields out there. When you do IM, you can become a hospitalist and make between 200-250k depending on location and work 1 week on, 1 week off. Which is great for raising a family, spending time doing the things yuo enjoy doing. Another great option is Emergency medicine, working 15 10 hour shifts a month and taking home 300-400k depending on location. In texas, you can work at a moderate volume ED, have scribes writing your notes, and you making 250/hr easily. What that means is that you work 3 days a week, and do whatever the hell you want and enjoy your life (if you want to go on a vacation or a 3 day cruise every other week. You sure as hell can afford that as well). And ofcourse then there are fields like radiology, anesthesiology, derm...But I'd still take family medicine over becoming a vet. But then again, I'd never do FM 😉 I think you should go into medicine with a open mind. There are many specialties that you don't know about.

6) 80k salary after 4 years more education and 160-180k debt is just the worst financial decision. If you like both options equally, pick the one with the bigger compensation. Lets me explain what 80k after 4 years and 180k debt means.

So the take home income after taxes on 80k is roughly around 56-58k. By the time you finish school, your 180k of debt has become 200k (6.8% interest). Your interest alone will cost you 13k a year. So, once you start making money, your 58k after paying JUST interest on your loan will be 45k. Now that doesnt even touch the principle. You'll likely have to pay 20k a year for 15 years to get rid of your loan in total. So your 58k in reality is 38k of actual working income after everything 🙂 Now...like most 30 year olds you'd be thinking about buying a home, family, kids, saving for school for children etc...Good luck doing that with the 38k that you have left after paying just your loan and taxes 🙂 Anyone who says don't make a decision based on what you'll make, hasn't quite thought about everything. I don't know about you...but after 8 yrs of education, if I struggled to save up for my children's college, I'd be stressed and in life (ding ding ding...see how the lack of money can cause stress. Money might not make you happy, but the lack of it can definitely cause stress and unhappiness).

What's the alternate life of a doctor? Lets say you become a hospitalist in Texas. 250k. That's 166k after taxes. And hell you could pay off your loans in 2-3 years if you wanted. Then at 30, you can finally buy a home, catch up on life, start a family (kids are expensive), go on decent vacations, have a lot of time off of work as you'll do 1 week on 1 week off. Have a lot of time with people you care about. And things only get better if you get into EM, derm, anesthesia, optho...

An incredibly rare thing on SDN, but this post actually has left me feeling optimistic about my career decisions. Thanks for the post!
 
I am in your exact situation right now, except after long, nagging thoughts and hours upon HOURS of researching everything the above person just said ^^^^, I am 100% agreeing with cyanides post above. I'm slightly heart broken about "giving up on my dream of becoming a vet" but honestly, it is unwise (for me personally, at least) to go through the financial struggles of becoming a vet. My state only has one vet school, one of the most prestigious in the world... And I probably couldn't get in and would need to go OOS which means running the possibility of going +300k deep into student loans with years of accruing debt. Going into equine and becoming board certified in large animal surgery requires 1 yr internship plus another 2-4 years (about) for some sort of residency in an equine hospital. This is very competitive and you get paid very little for those few years, ~$20k (from those residents that I've spoken to). At least human med residents can rent an apartment/live sort of comfortably and possibly start paying back loans (I know two getting paid ~$60k).

I have volunteered at an equine hospital, and the doctors seem slightly unhappy... Stating how they should've gone into human medicine etc, which scared me tbh. The residents get weekends off but are on call, and weekdays are there from about 6 or 7 am (depending on surgeries) and never leave before 5pm and often stay until 7pm, and sometimes as late as 10pm just to come back the next day again at 6am. They love what they are doing, but I disagree with vet medicine hours being better than physicians hours (obv there are always exceptions). Also, I've met a handful of vets that were never married or had children... Something to consider for both vet and human med.

Do your research, look at some numbers, talk to some med students, doctors, and residents. Know your stuff. Decide what fits what you're looking for best. Feel free to contact me if you'd like. Also, it's better that you're looking into this now, rather than later (like me... Oops)!




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I am in your exact situation right now, except after long, nagging thoughts and hours upon HOURS of researching everything the above person just said ^^^^, I am 100% agreeing with cyanides post above. I'm slightly heart broken about "giving up on my dream of becoming a vet" but honestly, it is unwise (for me personally, at least) to go through the financial struggles of becoming a vet. My state only has one vet school, one of the most prestigious in the world... And I probably couldn't get in and would need to go OOS which means running the possibility of going +300k deep into student loans with years of accruing debt. Going into equine and becoming board certified in large animal surgery requires 1 yr internship plus another 2-4 years (about) for some sort of residency in an equine hospital. This is very competitive and you get paid very little for those few years, ~$20k (from those residents that I've spoken to). At least human med residents can rent an apartment/live sort of comfortably and possibly start paying back loans (I know two getting paid ~$60k).

I have volunteered at an equine hospital, and the doctors seem slightly unhappy... Stating how they should've gone into human medicine etc, which scared me tbh. The residents get weekends off but are on call, and weekdays are there from about 6 or 7 am (depending on surgeries) and never leave before 5pm and often stay until 7pm, and sometimes as late as 10pm just to come back the next day again at 6am. They love what they are doing, but I disagree with vet medicine hours being better than physicians hours (obv there are always exceptions). Also, I've met a handful of vets that were never married or had children... Something to consider for both vet and human med.

Do your research, look at some numbers, talk to some med students, doctors, and residents. Know your stuff. Decide what fits what you're looking for best. Feel free to contact me if you'd like. Also, it's better that you're looking into this now, rather than later (like me... Oops)!

Well if it makes you feel any better, you might be "giving up your dream" right now, but 5-10 years down the line your priorities will change so much that your dreams would be more in line with "sending kids off to the best school" or "having a happy family". I think the phrase "money doesn't buy happiness" comes from the millionaires and billionaires sometimes being unhappy. They work all their lives in pursuit of money, slaving away, not having time for life, enjoyment, family, loved ones. In reality, some surgeons do that too, anyone working 2 jobs at a mcdonalds trying to raise kids as a single parent does that too. It really is people who don't spend time away from work with things they truly enjoy doing who are the unhappiest. The fact of the matter is...there is a huge difference a decent salary can make in the quality of life especially if you have the time to enjoy that salary (seems like Vets neither have the time or the $$$). Here are some examples of added benefits money can buy which in my opinion are huge quality of life items:

Child care for working parents when babies are young - 15-20k per year PER CHILD. OP talks about wanting a great lifestyle (cars, home etc)....I don't think anyone can afford childcare for two kids with 200k of loans and only an 80k salary.

Plus there are so many other little things that add to quality of life...imagine having a maid come clean the entire home once a week (6k a year). Is it worth it as a physican? Hell yes! My time will be more valuable! I'd rather do something I enjoy -_- (unless you're one of those weird people who enjoy cleaning).

Anyway I don't understand why people get judgemental when people talk about the prospect of how much they will make -_- I mean yea...if you make over 200k and are able to support all of your needs very comfortably as well as buy some things that add to quality of life then yes more money won't make much of a difference, but if you're struggling to pay for basic needs (buying a home, paying for childcare etc), now that's another story.
 
Not sure how to tag on mobile and I'm also new to SDN - but cyanide - your way of thinking is spot on with mine. Money cannot buy you happiness, but it sure can make you more comfortable. Couldn't have been said better


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As far as prestige, I value my veterinarian far more than my own physicians.

(because I value my dog higher than everything else in life except my husband)
 
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