Medical Mission Trips and their validity?

[SpaceHamsterBoo]

Are these "pay to play doctor" trips worth the cost? Do adcoms realize what is going on when applicants list these? What is a similar, low cost EC that is more appealing?

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[Josh7]

Are these "pay to play doctor" trips worth the cost? Do adcoms realize what is going on when applicants list these? What is a similar, low cost EC that is more appealing?

There was a man on the Pritzker Podcast who was also on the admissions board that said that is is fairly see-through when people go on those trips. He said that it is kind of a two-week-done sort of deal when they respect long time commitments more. There are plenty of opportunities to help the under served in your own town like volunteering at the homeless shelter, there's no reason to pay so much to play doctor in Costa Rica

 

[NickNaylor]

Just think about your motivations for doing this: do you feel REALLY BADLY for _______ people in ______ third world country? Or do you want to go somewhere and, as an added benefit, get some clinical experience? For almost everyone it's the latter. By the way, that doesn't mean that you can't develop a genuine passion for working with a particular population - it has to start somewhere. If you do a trip and then continue working with that group and/or taking subsequent trips, it could be a very, very strong experience to discuss. Some people do a trip like this, are strongly impacted by what they see, and do significant health policy research, work with the UN on getting aid to the area, get a MPH, do a year of work with a non-profit in the country, etc.. On the other hand, I roll my eyes a bit when I see that someone participated in a random 1-3 week "medical brigade" with no follow-up on the experience.

 

[yellowjellybean]

Hey there! I went on one and although it was fun, it was NOT worth $2000. I didn't even select it as my most meaningful and did not even mention it in my PS.

 

[410322]

Just think about your motivations for doing this: do you feel REALLY BADLY for _______ people in ______ third world country? Or do you want to go somewhere and, as an added benefit, get some clinical experience? For almost everyone it's the latter. By the way, that doesn't mean that you can't develop a genuine passion for working with a particular population - it has to start somewhere. If you do a trip and then continue working with that group and/or taking subsequent trips, it could be a very, very strong experience to discuss. Some people do a trip like this, are strongly impacted by what they see, and do significant health policy research, work with the UN on getting aid to the area, get a MPH, do a year of work with a non-profit in the country, etc.. On the other hand, I roll my eyes a bit when I see that someone participated in a random 1-3 week "medical brigade" with no follow-up on the experience.

This makes very little sense. People only have so many hours (and only so much $$$, missions trips are expensive) that follow-up work isn't always feasible. I think a better metric is, "Did this person write that it changed his life but it's clearly a farce?" You can tell when the rich kid went to Nigeria to take pictures for their facebook because he had money to blow (I may or may not know people like this) versus the person who found it meaningful but for various reasons couldn't keep involved. If they're already doing research, already have employment, don't have money to get an MPH and aren't going to take up loans for that if they know they're applying to med school, etc. they won't have time for the stuff that you're saying they should be doing.

 

[Josh7]

This makes very little sense. People only have so many hours (and only so much $$$, missions trips are expensive) that follow-up work isn't always feasible. I think a better metric is, "Did this person write that it changed his life but it's clearly a farce?" You can tell when the rich kid went to Nigeria to take pictures for their facebook because he had money to blow (I may or may not know people like this) versus the person who found it meaningful but for various reasons couldn't keep involved. If they're already doing research, already have employment, don't have money to get an MPH and aren't going to take up loans for that if they know they're applying to med school, etc. they won't have time for the stuff that you're saying they should be doing.

It would still be possible to fundraise to go back, do a lot of research on the health care problems in the country etc. It wouldn't be hard to show your passion for the subject.

 

[kalbrecht17]

This makes very little sense. People only have so many hours (and only so much $$$, missions trips are expensive) that follow-up work isn't always feasible. I think a better metric is, "Did this person write that it changed his life but it's clearly a farce?" You can tell when the rich kid went to Nigeria to take pictures for their facebook because he had money to blow (I may or may not know people like this) versus the person who found it meaningful but for various reasons couldn't keep involved. If they're already doing research, already have employment, don't have money to get an MPH and aren't going to take up loans for that if they know they're applying to med school, etc. they won't have time for the stuff that you're saying they should be doing.

i believe what he is getting at is people that have this trip to africa as their only volunteer/clinical experience and expect it to carry a ton of weight because it was in africa.

 

[SpaceHamsterBoo]

Just think about your motivations for doing this: do you feel REALLY BADLY for _______ people in ______ third world country? Or do you want to go somewhere and, as an added benefit, get some clinical experience? For almost everyone it's the latter. By the way, that doesn't mean that you can't develop a genuine passion for working with a particular population - it has to start somewhere. If you do a trip and then continue working with that group and/or taking subsequent trips, it could be a very, very strong experience to discuss. Some people do a trip like this, are strongly impacted by what they see, and do significant health policy research, work with the UN on getting aid to the area, get a MPH, do a year of work with a non-profit in the country, etc.. On the other hand, I roll my eyes a bit when I see that someone participated in a random 1-3 week "medical brigade" with no follow-up on the experience.

Well I come from a country that could use a few medical mission trips. Can I talk about my immigration and what I saw in my home country as a reason for why I want to become a doctor and successfully bypass the need to do these hairbrain ECs?

I am currently applying for shadowing at my local teaching university hospital, I'm looking to do some volunteering, and I will advertise myself as an organic and physics tutor. I do not have experience in clubs but I go to a community college where the average student is single and has 2 kids...clubs don't really have much staying power or appeal.

 

[Freesia88]

Well I come from a country that could use a few medical mission trips. Can I talk about my immigration and what I saw in my home country as a reason for why I want to become a doctor and successfully bypass the need to do these hairbrain ECs?

I am currently applying for shadowing at my local teaching university hospital, I'm looking to do some volunteering, and I will advertise myself as an organic and physics tutor. I do not have experience in clubs but I go to a community college where the average student is single and has 2 kids...clubs don't really have much staying power or appeal.

Or could use a couple of influential people to pressure the government of the country to invest more in the healthcare of its own people rather than depending on other people to provide care for them. Ultimately how do medical missions help the locals? How does it help the locals to have people come from some other country to proide them with "health care" who know really nothing about their lives and the common diseases they have to deal with? How does this motivate the local students to get interested in the medical field if they know that there will always be people on medical missions to help them? How does this develop the local healthcare infrastructure when there are other people providing free health care?

It is really frustrating for me as an African to deal with all of this because people look down on us for being poor and sick all the time, but then are so busy "helping" us they basically leave us even more crippled.

Just a question: What do you think the leaders of that country you are going to for a mission trip do with the resources they should use to care for their people?

This makes very little sense. People only have so many hours (and only so much $$$, missions trips are expensive) that follow-up work isn't always feasible. I think a better metric is, "Did this person write that it changed his life but it's clearly a farce?" You can tell when the rich kid went to Nigeria to take pictures for their facebook because he had money to blow (I may or may not know people like this) versus the person who found it meaningful but for various reasons couldn't keep involved. If they're already doing research, already have employment, don't have money to get an MPH and aren't going to take up loans for that if they know they're applying to med school, etc. they won't have time for the stuff that you're saying they should be doing.

So ultimately the trip was about the student and how he could leverage it for his application, not really about the locals. Thats a good feeling right there.

Just think about your motivations for doing this: do you feel REALLY BADLY for _______ people in ______ third world country? Or do you want to go somewhere and, as an added benefit, get some clinical experience? For almost everyone it's the latter. By the way, that doesn't mean that you can't develop a genuine passion for working with a particular population - it has to start somewhere. If you do a trip and then continue working with that group and/or taking subsequent trips, it could be a very, very strong experience to discuss. Some people do a trip like this, are strongly impacted by what they see, and do significant health policy research, work with the UN on getting aid to the area, get a MPH, do a year of work with a non-profit in the country, etc.. On the other hand, I roll my eyes a bit when I see that someone participated in a random 1-3 week "medical brigade" with no follow-up on the experience.

^ This.


Sorry if I come across as harsh or anything. This is just a very personal topic for me. There are persistent perceptions in the world about the African continent which are based on so much misinformation and breathtaking ignorance.

 

[jjesque]

I feel like premeds often represent these trips as "Oh, they have such a great need for medical professionals over there so I went and did so much! Being able to help save people's lives was so inspiring!" If you wanted to "help" people abroad, you would do it after you're a licensed physician and actually have the necessary skills. So why the rush to do it as a premed?

There is nothing wrong with these missions - I actually participated in them myself as a premed - but don't misrepresent what they really are. When I applied, I wrote a lot about one of my trips. But I wrote mainly about what I LEARNED from the experience, not what I did (which wasn't much in objective terms). And I was very honest that the main reason I decided to participate in these missions was to learn about a different culture and society and expand my worldview.

 

[Nymphicus]

Personally, I think spending thousands of dollars to send a premed to Panama or Honduras or wherever to hand out aspirin and band-aids is a waste of money.

I think individuals can certainly learn a lot and grow as a person from experiencing life outside our Western bubble, but you don't need to don the superhero cape of a "medical missions trip" to do so.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion.

 

[biomaj]

This makes very little sense. People only have so many hours (and only so much $$$, missions trips are expensive) that follow-up work isn't always feasible. I think a better metric is, "Did this person write that it changed his life but it's clearly a farce?" You can tell when the rich kid went to Nigeria to take pictures for their facebook because he had money to blow (I may or may not know people like this) versus the person who found it meaningful but for various reasons couldn't keep involved. If they're already doing research, already have employment, don't have money to get an MPH and aren't going to take up loans for that if they know they're applying to med school, etc. they won't have time for the stuff that you're saying they should be doing.

Obviously by follow up he means getting involved in some possibly local organizations for the purpose or similar examples..He just explained its not always feasible to return to those places.

 

[1289]

i've been on 3 such trips. i personally think they were worth it solely for the grounding/appreciation they have given me and perspective into what is really "necessary" in life- i know alot of applicants can gain this sort of thing in other ways, but when you grew up in upper middle class surburbia I think it was extremely valuable to have this experience outside of anything to do with medical admissions

 

[lobo.solo]

Why go to another country, if there are communities here that need help? I don't get it. Also, I find it insulting when premeds get to do stuff (that require training) that wouldn't otherwise do them here--it feels as if they are abusing the ignorance and need of those in foreign countries. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NickNaylor]

This makes very little sense. People only have so many hours (and only so much $$$, missions trips are expensive) that follow-up work isn't always feasible. I think a better metric is, "Did this person write that it changed his life but it's clearly a farce?" You can tell when the rich kid went to Nigeria to take pictures for their facebook because he had money to blow (I may or may not know people like this) versus the person who found it meaningful but for various reasons couldn't keep involved. If they're already doing research, already have employment, don't have money to get an MPH and aren't going to take up loans for that if they know they're applying to med school, etc. they won't have time for the stuff that you're saying they should be doing.

You don't have to return to continue working with the people there. Maybe you start an organization dedicated to raising money, resources, etc. to benefit the population. There are an infinite number of things you could do. My only point is that, on it's own, a short-term mission trip to a third world country is unimpressive at best.

 

[Freesia88]

Why go to another country, if there are communities here that need help? I don't get it. Also, I find it insulting when premeds get to do stuff (that require training) that wouldn't otherwise do them here--it feels as if they are abusing the ignorance and need of those in foreign countries. Just my 2 cents.

You might find this article and the ensuing bloodbath in the comment section interesting.

http://studentdoctor.net/2012/07/medical-missions-what-makes-us-think-were-qualified/

 

[NickNaylor]

Why go to another country, if there are communities here that need help? I don't get it. Also, I find it insulting when premeds get to do stuff (that require training) that wouldn't otherwise do them here--it feels as if they are abusing the ignorance and need of those in foreign countries. Just my 2 cents.

Schools are aware of this and I imagine will immediately reject anyone that has performed anything outside their "scope of practice."

 

[12221989]

I am amazed at how judgmental so many of you can be about the motivations of others to go on these trips. Come on, can you honestly say that you know of one person's motivations much less go on to condemn everyone who goes on a trip?*Sweeping statements criticizing the value of these trips is foolish. As in so many things in life, it depends on the individual.

The point of these trips is increase awareness. A large number of medical schools are in a position to train physicians who will be able to make an impact on global healthcare in various different career paths. If an individual cares to do that in their career then this type of trip is a good step. If you don't particularly care to practice in that way, that is your choice. But please, why assume the worst in your fellow applicant? There are many applicants who have genuine motivations for this type of medical work.

 

[Rumalum]

..

 

[NickNaylor]

I am amazed at how judgmental so many of you can be about the motivations of others to go on these trips. Come on, can you honestly say that you know of one person's motivations much less go on to condemn everyone who goes on a trip?*Sweeping statements criticizing the value of these trips is foolish. As in so many things in life, it depends on the individual.

The point of these trips is increase awareness. A large number of medical schools are in a position to train physicians who will be able to make an impact on global healthcare in various different career paths. If an individual cares to do that in their career then this type of trip is a good step. If you don't particularly care to practice in that way, that is your choice. But please, why assume the worst in your fellow applicant? There are many applicants who have genuine motivations for this type of medical work.

It has nothing to do with assuming the worst. It has everything to do with this being a fairly weak way of getting "awareness." Why is it necessary to go (third world country) in order to become aware of these things? I assure you that within 20-30 miles of where you are at this moment, there are likely people with SIGNIFICANT medical needs to whom you could likely be a HUGE help. With that in mind, it becomes obvious that the purpose of these trips is traveling first and helping others second. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. However, it can be interpreted as self-serving and disingenuous - things you obviously don't even want to hint at when applying to medical school.

Also, it has very little to do with disparaging "your fellow applicant." Many schools approach these trips neutrally at best. Again, it all depends on context. The ultimate point, though, is that no one is going to be impressed that you spend a few thousand bucks traveling somewhere to do something you could've done in your own home community. On it's own, that experience is pretty unimpressive.

 

[Freesia88]

To Hell With Good Intentions is a great speech to read if you are thinking about an overseas volunteering trip: http://www.swaraj.org/illich_hell.htm

At least for me, volunteering abroad gave me great insights into service learning and helped me be more effective with my activities at home. If you're able to go on such a trip, I would highly recommend it. But do your homework beforehand so you don't walk around acting culturally insensitive and don't be the kid who goes and spends the entire week durnk

I am at work and I had a strong urge to stand up and clap after reading this speech.

Aside from the fact that you could have that mission trip right here in the US with higher efficacy, these trips ultimately do nothing to solve the issues which made the people in the underdeveloped countries need help in the first place i.e their own governments do not care. Its the equivalent of some one having a broken bone and you swoop in with a couple of tylenols and a pat on the head.

 

[NickNaylor]

I am amazed at how judgmental so many of you can be about the motivations of others to go on these trips. Come on, can you honestly say that you know of one person's motivations much less go on to condemn everyone who goes on a trip?*Sweeping statements criticizing the value of these trips is foolish. As in so many things in life, it depends on the individual.

The point of these trips is increase awareness. A large number of medical schools are in a position to train physicians who will be able to make an impact on global healthcare in various different career paths. If an individual cares to do that in their career then this type of trip is a good step. If you don't particularly care to practice in that way, that is your choice. But please, why assume the worst in your fellow applicant? There are many applicants who have genuine motivations for this type of medical work.

It has nothing to do with assuming the worst. It has everything to do with this is a fairly weak of getting "awareness." Why is it necessary to go (third world country) in order to become aware of these things? I assure you that within 20-30 miles of where you are, there are likely people with SIGNIFICANT medical needs to whom you could likely be a HUGE help. With that in mind, it becomes obvious that the purpose of these trips is traveling first and helping others second. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. However, it can be interpreted as self-serving and disingenuous.

Also, it has very little to do with "your fellow applicant." Many schools approach these trips neutrally at best. Again, it all depends on context. The ultimate point, though, is that no one is going to be impressed that you spend a few thousand bucks traveling somewhere to do something you could've done in your own home community. On it's own, that experience is pretty "meh."

 

[rubisco88]

Unless, you are truly interested in global health (and have shown this interest in your other experiences), I would not be that impressed by a medical mission trip. The individuals that usually do these trips in my experience are usually not genuine about their intentions. In my experience, usually rich kids do these mission trips and they pay a lot to go on them. Daddy and mommy just hand them the money. I know some people that go abroad also do it to have fun or travel somewhere exotic, not primarily to help people. I don't know why these applicants can't just help the homeless down the street. There are plenty of opportunities to help out in the states. I think you also run the risk of your clinical activities in another country being seen as unethical.

 

[bluebillion]

Global health is a passion of mine. My experiences volunteering abroad with nonprofits truly had an impact on my life and solidified my interest in medicine. Before traveling, I was properly trained before my trip on ethics, culture, and medicine in the developing world. I think this was very important as it gave me a wider perspective of healthcare in different parts of the globe.

It was a life changing experience. Just make sure you are doing it through an organization that has true, sustainable impact on communities.

 

[410322]

You don't have to return to continue working with the people there. Maybe you start an organization dedicated to raising money, resources, etc. to benefit the population. There are an infinite number of things you could do. My only point is that, on it's own, a short-term mission trip to a third world country is unimpressive at best.

I think we're talking past each other, let me try a different way. There are some people who go on those trips and it piques their interest in world health. But unless you've found a way to have more than 24 hours to a day, doing all those things you mentioned (in those post and your previous one) take significant time and/or money (getting an MPH to show world health interest? really?). As you know firsthand, many pre-meds are already extremely involved in clinical, nonclinical, leadership, research, etc. activities year-round. What's wrong with them claiming in interest in world health after a trip?

I do agree with your final sentence, and I even said as much. Going on a trip just to say "I went on a trip to Uganda, I am great medicine caring guy!!" is pointless.

 

[NickNaylor]

I think we're talking past each other, let me try a different way. There are some people who go on those trips and it piques their interest in world health. But unless you've found a way to have more than 24 hours to a day, doing all those things you mentioned (in those post and your previous one) take significant time and/or money (getting an MPH to show world health interest? really?). As you know firsthand, many pre-meds are already extremely involved in clinical, nonclinical, leadership, research, etc. activities year-round. What's wrong with them claiming in interest in world health after a trip?

I do agree with your final sentence, and I even said as much. Going on a trip just to say "I went on a trip to Uganda, I am great medicine caring guy!!" is pointless.

There's nothing wrong with that, and maybe that's true. However many people (myself included) would be skeptical of whether your interest is genuine or not, and that's really where the problem is.

As an example of what I'm talking about, I interviewed an applicant that did a trip to South Africa and then decided to spend a year there after he graduated working with a nonprofit. A SDN user I know went to India, saw (coincidentally enough) the abuses frequently associated with medical missions trips, and is working with the UN to write a report about mission trips and guidelines for their activities. These things do happen. Just because they seem unreasonable to you doesn't mean they don't happen.

When you're seeing stuff like that, it's hard to take a week long trip to South America over your spring break seriously.

(sent from my phone)

 

[12221989]

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but NN I find your attitude offensive.
So many assumptions and generalizations.*One experience does not equate to all.

I think it is absurd for another person to claim that "the purpose of these trips is traveling first and helping others second." *My point again is that statements like that are prejudicial when you do not know the motivation of an individual but instead lump a group together. *Are there some "rich kids" who have gone on these trips with the wrong motivations. Yes. *But that does not equate to all students participating in this type of premed activity.

That's like saying anybody with a 4.0, 40+ is an insensitive dbag because they never took time to get out of the library to travel overseas.

I never said it was not possible to find people with medical needs close to home. I absolutely agree that any individual considering medical school should actively participate in the best possible clinical exposure as possible so they have a realistic idea of what they are training for.

Similarly, I think a trip to a third world country is beneficial for those who who have interest in a career path that will lead them to provide medical care overseas. There is no realistic way to compare an experience 20-30 miles from home in the US to medical practice overseas. LOL *Is it not wise, to gain some exposure? Thousands of US doctors are involved in medical care in third world countries. And for students who want to gain exposure, more power to them. I applaud anybody who works to become a well-rounded individual with as much cultural competency as possible. It is often not wise to run off on your own without some experience and so these types of trip are a realistic starting point.

I find it interesting that people so hasty to criticize a medical trip so often have not gone on one themselves. LOL.

There are plenty of research or clinical experiences that applicants have that may appear to be "meh." *It depends on the individual and what they have gained from an experience. That is why med admissions is based on a holistic review. Apparently they have found that well-rounded Individuals with varying experiences are often better-suited to med school over someone with little to offer except a 4.0, 40+. *

So you think a medical service trip is meh.*Ok fine. Maybe you haven't gotten anything out of the experience but don't equate your reality to someone else. From my experience there are plenty of med schools looking for individuals with knowledge, experiences and motivation to develop medical practices that are multidimensional.

 

[Freesia88]

I think we're talking past each other, let me try a different way. There are some people who go on those trips and it piques their interest in world health. But unless you've found a way to have more than 24 hours to a day, doing all those things you mentioned (in those post and your previous one) take significant time and/or money (getting an MPH to show world health interest? really?). As you know firsthand, many pre-meds are already extremely involved in clinical, nonclinical, leadership, research, etc. activities year-round. What's wrong with them claiming in interest in world health after a trip?

I do agree with your final sentence, and I even said as much. Going on a trip just to say "I went on a trip to Uganda, I am great medicine caring guy!!" is pointless.

We are actually. Permit me to share some perspectives on this. It will be long and I apologize in advance.

I think a fundamental question any person interested in global health ( mission trips or whatever you chose to call it) should ask themselves is : Why? Not: "Why am I doing this?" but "Why is my help needed? Why is the help of the organization I am going with needed?"


If your answer is along the lines of "...these people need the help..." You have it wrong. There is nothing you can do on that mission trip which will even begin to scratch the surface of what really helping poor nations entail. If this kind of help really help, then the hundreds of thousands of volunteers and the billions of dollars which get put into these endeavours would have caused change on a larger magnitude don't you think? Of course you can site examples of success stories but the fact remains that the standards of health care in Africa for example are still nearly pre-historic when compared to the US for example.

If your answer goes along the lines of "...to gain some perspective on life outside my sphere or to learn and to mature..." that's a little more noble and honest but no less harmful. You will have gained your meaningful experience and maturity and it will benefit you for the rest of your life, whatever path you chose to pursue. Not so much the villagers in that little village you spent the summer or even the year in. Does this experience spur you to go practice medicine in that village or even in that country? Or to join an organization putting pressure on the government to improve the conditions of the lives of those people in a more permanent way?

If your answer is along the lines of "...to make my application look good..." Good luck to you.

The major harms caused by mission trips the way I see it is that first and foremost they just keep the locals dependent. Plain and simple. Why would a corrupt government invest in health care when you are oh so willing to do it for them? The villages you visit which have no health clinics, no doctors, no nurses... is it because it is impossible for these things to happen? What you are doing is enabling.

Secondly, what keeps the foreign workers accountable? There are little to no government regulations over what you can or cannot do. The locals are so grateful for your help do not even think about the possibility of abuse. And some medical mission workers have this "beggers can't be chosers" attitude that makes me wish the worst cases of typhoid and malaria on them 😀 Just Kiddin'

What needs to be done to improve health care conditions in poor countries is brain-numbing in its magnitude. It will involve providing the necessary infrastructure and professionals as well as changing the peoples mindsets about themselves and their health. The first step towards this will be with the governments investing in their own citizens, making sure that the necessary infrastructure is put in place. This means building more hospitals and health centers, investing more into medical and other health care professional programs at schools, encouraging young people through scholarships and other means that make education possible to pursue these programs and above all compensating them for their trouble when they do start working. You do not want to know what doctors working for government hospitals get paid in my country...when they do get paid. If the governments want to accept foreign aid for that, fine and good but let the infrastructure be put in place and let the people be trained on how to take care of themselves. The whole thing smacks of the patronizing "we know what is good for you better than you do" attitudes which was the fertile soil which bred things like colonialism.

What shocks me is that faced with all of this some students still obstinately believe that they are helping. Temporarily? Sure. In a manner that really counts. No, not in the least. I was born and raised in a "third world " African country just in case you wondered.

 

[ShenanigansMD]

I think it's good if you're trying to develop language skills, and it's nice to see the world outside of the US. It probably depends on how you discuss it on the app.

 

[rubisco88]

I just don't see the point of a premed going abroad to offer clinical assistance. For a trip that will ultimately cost 2000 dollars or so wouldn't it make more of an impact if you donate that money to a good organization that will use the money to help poor people abroad. It doesn't seem like a logical trade off. There is only so much a premed can do. I'm sure that 2000 bucks you spend to go on abroad trip can be put to a better use if you truly want to help people. If you are already a health professional with a set of advanced skills like an MD going abroad to help out would make more sense.

 

[lobo.solo]

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but NN I find your attitude offensive.
So many assumptions and generalizations.*One experience does not equate to all.

I think it is absurd for another person to claim that "the purpose of these trips is traveling first and helping others second." *My point again is that statements like that are prejudicial when you do not know the motivation of an individual but instead lump a group together. *Are there some "rich kids" who have gone on these trips with the wrong motivations. Yes. *But that does not equate to all students participating in this type of premed activity.

That's like saying anybody with a 4.0, 40+ is an insensitive dbag because they never took time to get out of the library to travel overseas.

I never said it was not possible to find people with medical needs close to home. I absolutely agree that any individual considering medical school should actively participate in the best possible clinical exposure as possible so they have a realistic idea of what they are training for.

Similarly, I think a trip to a third world country is beneficial for those who who have interest in a career path that will lead them to provide medical care overseas. There is no realistic way to compare an experience 20-30 miles from home in the US to medical practice overseas. LOL *Is it not wise, to gain some exposure? Thousands of US doctors are involved in medical care in third world countries. And for students who want to gain exposure, more power to them. I applaud anybody who works to become a well-rounded individual with as much cultural competency as possible. It is often not wise to run off on your own without some experience and so these types of trip are a realistic starting point.

I find it interesting that people so hasty to criticize a medical trip so often have not gone on one themselves. LOL.

There are plenty of research or clinical experiences that applicants have that may appear to be "meh." *It depends on the individual and what they have gained from an experience. That is why med admissions is based on a holistic review. Apparently they have found that well-rounded Individuals with varying experiences are often better-suited to med school over someone with little to offer except a 4.0, 40+. *

So you think a medical service trip is meh.*Ok fine. Maybe you haven't gotten anything out of the experience but don't equate your reality to someone else. From my experience there are plenty of med schools looking for individuals with knowledge, experiences and motivation to develop medical practices that are multidimensional.

I have never gone to one, but I have been on the other side. My problem with this medical missions is that first of all a pre-med isn't skilled (most likely) in anything that will benefit the population. In fact, they get to do stuff that they wouldn't do here, so they pretty much get to "practice and learn" sort of clinical-medical stuff. In that note, you aren't helping the population in those countries, but merely utilizing them--they are means to your end. I find that so insulting and enraging because the volunteers I see at the hospital cannot do that stuff here with American patients. Why? is it because people in poor countries are less deserving of quality care? I know that people there need all the help they can get, but a premed wouldn't provide much to their benefit specially when they don't have any sort of medial training.

As for being exposed to different cultures and becoming culturally competent, I think that claim is a joke. Do you actually think you can become competent in understanding the subtleties of a culture in a 2 weeks trip? Besides this, the more appropriate and more efficient approach to be culturally sensitive is the one about cultural humility.

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but NN I find your attitude offensive.
So many assumptions and generalizations.*One experience does not equate to all.

I think it is absurd for another person to claim that "the purpose of these trips is traveling first and helping others second." *My point again is that statements like that are prejudicial when you do not know the motivation of an individual but instead lump a group together. *Are there some "rich kids" who have gone on these trips with the wrong motivations. Yes. *But that does not equate to all students participating in this type of premed activity.

That's like saying anybody with a 4.0, 40+ is an insensitive dbag because they never took time to get out of the library to travel overseas.

I never said it was not possible to find people with medical needs close to home. I absolutely agree that any individual considering medical school should actively participate in the best possible clinical exposure as possible so they have a realistic idea of what they are training for.

Similarly, I think a trip to a third world country is beneficial for those who who have interest in a career path that will lead them to provide medical care overseas. There is no realistic way to compare an experience 20-30 miles from home in the US to medical practice overseas. LOL *Is it not wise, to gain some exposure? Thousands of US doctors are involved in medical care in third world countries. And for students who want to gain exposure, more power to them. I applaud anybody who works to become a well-rounded individual with as much cultural competency as possible. It is often not wise to run off on your own without some experience and so these types of trip are a realistic starting point.

I find it interesting that people so hasty to criticize a medical trip so often have not gone on one themselves. LOL.

There are plenty of research or clinical experiences that applicants have that may appear to be "meh." *It depends on the individual and what they have gained from an experience. That is why med admissions is based on a holistic review. Apparently they have found that well-rounded Individuals with varying experiences are often better-suited to med school over someone with little to offer except a 4.0, 40+. *

So you think a medical service trip is meh.*Ok fine. Maybe you haven't gotten anything out of the experience but don't equate your reality to someone else. From my experience there are plenty of med schools looking for individuals with knowledge, experiences and motivation to develop medical practices that are multidimensional.

You are of course free to disagree, and I am obviously painting with broad strokes that aren't true in every case, but I'm simply sharing how I - as an interviewer - and others see this sorts of experiences. Your opinion about them isn't going to change that. No, not all experiences are like this, but the majority are (and trust me, as a recent pre-med I know the games of these programs pretty well). To go on a medical missions trip, you must have two things: half a brain, and money. That you have those two things and gained a clinical experience via ethically dubious (at best) actions is unimpressive on a medical school application. Without further information, I'm likely to assume that Johnny's medical mission experience is like those that I remember hearing about and seeing ads for: essentially a glorified, medicine-themed vacation experience.

On the other hand, if you used that $2000 to start a non-profit clinic that benefits your local population, not only do you demonstrate that you have half a brain and money, but also that you're intrinsically motivated to do things, you have an obvious commitment to service, and you have the ability to see something through. See the difference? One has value and adds to the the perception of your character and motivations, and the other doesn't.

Again, my point is not that medical missions trips are terrible. Instead, my point is that 1) there have been some ethical concerns raised about these trips, and 2) they do not say anything about you as an individual other than that you had money to spend. I encourage you to go on a mission trip. However, don't expect anyone to be impressed with it if you list it on your app without any follow-up involvement and more impressive experiences/accomplishments.

 

[medicalpassion]

Good lord, I had to make an account just to address the stupidity that has come up in this thread.

For those of you saying that medical mission trips are often for rich kids who just want something to write on their application, BS. Even claiming that one small trip is meaningless, is total BS. Are follow-up actions, local fundraisers, revisits, etc better? Of course. That doesn't mean, however that a stand-alone trip is worthless.

Claiming that a stand-alone trip is worthless is so arrogant. You argue that there are people within "20-30 miles that need SIGNIFICANT" health care but do you not realize that there are MILLIONS of people overseas who are in a far worse condition? I guarantee that the needy people you are referring to at least have access to clean water and a roof over the head (even homeless people can find shelter in a wide variety of areas). There are FAMILIES in India who LIVE in the median between two lanes of a highway. The conditions for many people are far beyond anything you could ever imagine, I promise you. I've seen it.

Why are we spending ridiculous amounts of money to help patients with terminal diseases and such when simple things such as water, food, and other life essentials can PREVENT health illnesses? Generally speaking, the majority of people here in the US have access to things that people in India and other third-world countries only DREAM about having. Even the poorest people in this country often have these "luxuries". Yes, there are many people in need here in the US but there are also people who are in more need around the world. That doesn't mean everyone should rush to help people overseas and forget about the problems locally, but having young adults visit and deliver life essentials to impoverished areas is far from worthless. If person A does a 2-3 week trip with no follow-up, and then person B does another stand-alone trip soon after, what's wrong with that? The needy people are still getting access to supplies that most everyone in the US already has access to.

You really should take a look at this video:

http://www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_onie_what_if_our_healthcare_system_kept_us_healthy.html

 

[Freesia88]

Good lord, I had to make an account just to address the stupidity that has come up in this thread.

For those you saying that medical mission trips are often for rich kids who just want something to write on their application, BS. Even claiming that one small trip is meaningless, is total BS. Are follow-up actions, local fundraisers, revisits, etc better? Of course. That doesn't mean, however that a stand-alone trip is worthless.

Claiming that a stand-alone trip is worthless is so arrogant. You argue that there are people within "20-30 miles that need SIGNIFICANT" health care but do you not realize that there are MILLIONS of people overseas who are in a far worse condition? I guarantee that the needy people you are referring to at least have access to clean water and a roof over the head (even homeless people can find shelter in a wide variety of areas). There are FAMILIES in India who LIVE in the median between two lanes of a highway. The conditions for many people are far beyond anything you could ever imagine, I promise you. I've seen it.

Why are we spending ridiculous amounts of money to help patients with terminal diseases and such when simple things such as water, food, and other life essentials can PREVENT health illnesses? Generally speaking, the majority of people here in the US have access to things that people in India and other third-world countries only DREAM about having. Even the poorest people in the country often have these "luxuries". Yes, there are many people in need here in the US but there are also people who are in more need around the world. That doesn't mean everyone should rush to help people overseas and forget about the problems locally, but having young adults visit and deliver life essentials to impoverished areas is far from worthless. If person A does a 2-3 week trip with no follow-up, and then person B does another stand-alone trip soon after, what's wrong with that? The needy people are still getting access to supplies that most everyone in the US already has access to.

You really should take a look at this video:

http://www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_onie_what_if_our_healthcare_system_kept_us_healthy.html

I love how you ignore the part where the ethics of what activities actually do go on on this trip are questioned. And it is not arrogant at all to be so sure that you know what is needed to help these "poor people." After all you are the westerner right? Your society and your governments and ways of doing things are so much more superior. We need your help to take care of ourselves, manage our resources, tell us what to do, how to live and how to educate ourselves.You are a perfect example of the kind of people who are so self righteous in your desire to "help" and how dare we question your right to help? But then again, since we are the beggars we don't get to be chosers right? Well take it from a poor person from one of those poor third world countries. YOU ARE NOT HELPING THE SITUATION. YOU ARE MAKING IT WORSE.

Providing clean water, housing, food and medication for poor people in India or whatever country is not your responsibility, it is the responsibility of the governments of those countries. Governments who are oh so happy to stock their personal bank accounts or invest in their pet projects while you make yourself feel better about helping "those poor people." Even at its poorest and most underdeveloped, the US healthcare system was not formed and refined by other people coming in to help. Your people and your government put time and effort into getting it to where it is. So are us poor people incapable of investing in ourselves? Oh wait, we have the American volunteers here to help and save us. Everything is going to be ok. Jesus.

Do you have any idea how rich in resources a country like the Democratic Republic of the Congo is? There are places there where you can pan for gold with your bare hands.It has some of the richest resources in Copper, uranium, diamonds timber just about any freaking thing. Do you know how much money foreign multinationals make from this country despite the fact that there has been a civil war going on there for decades? Do you know how much diamonds were exported from Liberia and Sierra Leone? Do you know the amount of petroleum and natural gas that is in Southern Sudan? in Nigeria? Ironic that India is a super power in terms of technology and their economy is growing so fast yet they still need you to come fix their healthcare problems for them right? what happens to the money made from exporting these resources? What happens to these billions?

Sometimes I swear to God....

What happens when there is no longer enough aid money? The world economy is walking a tight rope. China, India and the next super powers are likely going to be very involved in developing their countries and consolidating their power. Are we supposed to be content to live on the dregs of your pity? My goodness will you people take your heads out of the sand for one second and stop looking at this situation with the rosy glasses of idealism.

 

[medicalpassion]

God you are so wrong, I don't even know where to begin. I have a feeling there's no point arguing with you since there is little logic to your thinking but I'll give it a go anyways.

First of all, you don't know me so don't assume I'm a "westerner". I'll leave it at that.

Second of all, I never said the government isn't the source of the problem. Of course it is. But that doesn't mean we let thousands of people die just because the government doesn't take control. As a single human being, I can only do so much. I choose to help by directly aiding impoverished people. Someone else who has more knowledge in health policy would be my counterpart in attacking the government problem. I can't do both, of course. No single person can solve the problem since there are many issues at hand. I do my part, hopefully someone else will do theirs.

In addition, this bogus about how third-world people don't need our help and your sarcasm/arrogance is just amazing. Please tell me why I am swamped my beggars everywhere I go in third-world countries. Tell me why the APPRECIATIVE (unlike you) people are overjoyed when they are given basic supplies, a ball to play with, school supplies, etc etc. Why don't these people reject foreign aid if they don't want western influence as you're claiming?

The people, at least in the few third-world countries I am very familiar with, have very little say in their government. Just because the country is rich in resources doesn't mean the people are rich. The government often uses lower class citizens to harvest these resources to resell for a large profit while the workers get paid an amount that is beyond insignificant. These people are born into poverty, it's not there choice. Schools are often miles and miles away that even if they want to get an education and better their lives, the resources simply aren't available. Open your eyes, there are millions of people who want to come to America in hopes of living a better style. Your nonsense about westerners forcing our influence is just that, nonsense.

I think you need to lose your sensitivity and stereotypical belief of people's motives. Some people actually care.

I'll leave you with that. If you don't understand this simple logic, I'm not going to waste my time with someone who wrongly accuses other people of having malicious motives when they really just have good intentions.

 

[rubisco88]

Claiming that a stand-alone trip is worthless is so arrogant. You argue that there are people within "20-30 miles that need SIGNIFICANT" health care but do you not realize that there are MILLIONS of people overseas who are in a far worse condition? I guarantee that the needy people you are referring to at least have access to clean water and a roof over the head (even homeless people can find shelter in a wide variety of areas). There are FAMILIES in India who LIVE in the median between two lanes of a highway. The conditions for many people are far beyond anything you could ever imagine, I promise you. I've seen it.

Why are we spending ridiculous amounts of money to help patients with terminal diseases and such when simple things such as water, food, and other life essentials can PREVENT health illnesses? Generally speaking, the majority of people here in the US have access to things that people in India and other third-world countries only DREAM about having. Even the poorest people in this country often have these "luxuries". Yes, there are many people in need here in the US but there are also people who are in more need around the world. That doesn't mean everyone should rush to help people overseas and forget about the problems locally, but having young adults visit and deliver life essentials to impoverished areas is far from worthless. If person A does a 2-3 week trip with no follow-up, and then person B does another stand-alone trip soon after, what's wrong with that? The needy people are still getting access to supplies that most everyone in the US already has access to.

l

Your logic doesn't make sense at all. You are being wasteful by spending 2000 dollars to go on a mission trip just to pass out water bottles, food, etc and play doctor. You can't offer "signficant" help that would be worth that much money. Why don't you just donate that money to a world health organization or an organization that sends doctors abroad? You can send a professional out there who has valuable skills or they can use that money to buy food, water, medications, or health supplies and these professionals can distribute these resources. Would you buy 2000 dollars worth of water and food to distribute to the poor while you are volunteering in a third world country? If not, obviously you are going out of self-interest first. I see no possible justification for such wastefulness.

 

[Freesia88]

Moderators, please feel free to ban me from this forum after this.

Let me tell you a story about a girl. I'll call her Anna. Anna was the oldest of five siblings and they adored her. She was the glue that literally kept her family together between the emotionally unstable and sometimes violent father and the mother who was just hanging on. Anna loved to read and she read to her baby sister often. Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice," and Charlotte Bronte's "Jane Eyre," George Orwell's "Animal Farm" (which she read with funny voices to mimic the animals). Many long summer vacations were spent reading together, playing together, cuddling, making funny faces laughing inventing new words to describe new situations.

When Anna was 19 and a college freshman, she fell sick. Now, Anna was not from a poor family. Solid middle class. Her parents could afford to take her to a hospital. But doctor after doctor after doctor and no one could agree as to exactly what was wrong with Anna. Diagnoses and prescriptions abounded, at a certain point Anna was taking close to 20 pills a day and they still did not know exactly what was going on. Anna wasted away slowly but surely and they could only watch powerless.

The last time I saw my sister, she was begging my dad to let her accompany me to school. I was leaving for school ( a boarding school) and it would be three months until I saw her again. He said no. Roughly a month later, she was dead. We still do not know exactly what killed her.

My family literally fell apart after that.

I will not deny that medical missions have their place. I will not deny that aid workers have good intentions. But for how long will they continue? How much longer are we supposed to be dependent on your good intentions? Is there no end in sight? Is there no point where these third class citizens of the world can stand on their own two feet and say we have this under control? Let me give you some perspective, in the 1960's around the time my country gained independence from the British and the French our GNP and GDP was about the same as South Korea's. Half a decade later, we are still one of the poorest countries in the world, meanwhile the president of the country was flown to France for treatment when he had indigestion.

What parameters are being put in place to tighten things up, create what is lacking? Its been decades of war and sickness and death and nothing is changing on a whole. We are still dependent on the scraps and the pity being thrown our way is that what we should be thankful for? You can only do your part and hope that someone else is doing their part, who decided that it was up to you to do your part? If instead of patronizing and "helping" us what if we had been challenged in the first place to fix the damage that ironically westerners caused by cutting up the continent into glorified plantations without regard for the people who lived on this continent? The African continent was not the only one colonized but it is the only one which seems not to have recovered from the effect of that colonization, does that not strike you as odd? Or could it be that leaving the continent a mess is profitable to western corporations because they can come in and support which side will deal with them. Who do these corrupt governments sell the resources for a profit to? You think these western corporations, some of which are your own governments do not see the conditions the people of these countries live in? You think they give a ****?

Let me assure you as long as you are there to slap a band aid on the fracture with bone sticking out, nothing will change. We want to change our countries, we want to become better, but between our governments greed and your willingness to fix things for them, we are giving up hope. Our doctors and nurses and young professionals are leaving because there is no hope. The least sign of revolt or dissent is met by crushing suppression.

Do you have any idea what a slap in the face it was for me when I first moved to the US? When I saw your many hospitals, your ambulances and emergency rooms? Your doctors, your nurses, your technicians and aides, your pharmacists, your technology, your schools, your parks, your nuring homes and rehabilitation centers? I bathed, clothed, cooked for, fed, cleaned after and wiped the **** off the ass of the elderly here for a living and listened to them cuss at me while my own grandmother died in pain I cannot even imagine. I drew blood for a living to stock blood banks here and everyday it reminded me of the story I had to write as a journalist back home of a woman who needed surgery and she and her family had to go from door to door begging people to come donate samples so they could be tested. They also had to pay for all the necessary tests to be done to determine of the blood was safe. I watched in horror as a slip of a girl donated more blood than was safe because she was the only one able to.


I don't know if you are a westerner, but if you are not, if you are an African in particular, I am ashamed of you.

 

[medicalpassion]

Moderators, please feel free to ban me from this forum after this.

Let me tell you a story about a girl. I'll call her Anna. Anna was the oldest of five siblings and they adored her. She was the glue that literally kept her family together between the emotionally unstable and sometimes violent father and the mother who was just hanging on. Anna loved to read and she read to her baby sister often. Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice," and Charlotte Bronte's "Jane Eyre," George Orwell's "Animal Farm" (which she read with funny voices to mimic the animals). Many long summer vacations were spent reading together, playing together, cuddling, making funny faces laughing inventing new words to describe new situations.

When Anna was 19 and a college freshman, she fell sick. Now, Anna was not from a poor family. Solid middle class. Her parents could afford to take her to a hospital. But doctor after doctor after doctor and no one could agree as to exactly what was wrong with Anna. Diagnoses and prescriptions abounded, at a certain point Anna was taking close to 20 pills a day and they still did not know exactly what was going on. Anna wasted away slowly but surely and they could only watch powerless.

The last time I saw my sister, she was begging my dad to let her accompany me to school. I was leaving for school ( a boarding school) and it would be three months until I saw her again. He said no. Roughly a month later, she was dead. We still do not know exactly what killed her.

My family literally fell apart after that.

I will not deny that medical missions have their place. I will not deny that aid workers have good intentions. But for how long will they continue? How much longer are we supposed to be dependent on your good intentions? Is there no end in sight? Is there no point where these third class citizens of the world can stand on their own two feet and say we have this under control? Let me give you some perspective, in the 1960's around the time my country gained independence from the British and the French our GNP and GDP was about the same as South Korea's. Half a decade later, we are still one of the poorest countries in the world, meanwhile the president of the country was flown to France for treatment when he had indigestion.

What parameters are being put in place to tighten things up, create what is lacking? Its been decades of war and sickness and death and nothing is changing on a whole. We are still dependent on the scraps and the pity being thrown our way is that what we should be thankful for? You can only do your part and hope that someone else is doing their part, who decided that it was up to you to do your part? If instead of patronizing and "helping" us what if we had been challenged in the first place to fix the damage that ironically westerners caused by cutting up the continent into glorified plantations without regard for the people who lived on this continent? The African continent was not the only one colonized but it is the only one which seems not to have recovered from the effect of that colonization, does that not strike you as odd? Or could it be that leaving the continent a mess is profitable to western corporations because they can come in and support which side will deal with them. Who do these corrupt governments sell the resources for a profit to? You think these western corporations, some of which are your own governments do not see the conditions the people of these countries live in? You think they give a ****?

Let me assure you as long as you are there to slap a band aid on the fracture with bone sticking out, nothing will change. We want to change our countries, we want to become better, but between our governments greed and your willingness to fix things for them, we are giving up hope. Our doctors and nurses and young professionals are leaving because there is no hope. The least sign of revolt or dissent is met by crushing suppression.

Do you have any idea what a slap in the face it was for me when I first moved to the US? When I saw your many hospitals, your ambulances and emergency rooms? Your doctors, your nurses, your technicians and aides, your pharmacists, your technology, your schools, your parks, your nuring homes and rehabilitation centers? I bathed, clothed, cooked for, fed, cleaned after and wiped the **** off the ass of the elderly here for a living and listened to them cuss at me while my own grandmother died in pain I cannot even imagine. I drew blood for a living to stock blood banks here and everyday it reminded me of the story I had to write as a journalist back home of a woman who needed surgery and she and her family had to go from door to door begging people to come donate samples so they could be tested. They also had to pay for all the necessary tests to be done to determine of the blood was safe. I watched in horror as a slip of a girl donated more blood than was safe because she was the only one able to.


I don't know if you are a westerner, but if you are not, if you are an African in particular, I am ashamed of you.

I don't know, I really don't know what to think about this. I understand your perspective now as to how it should be a problem that is corrected within the country itself but in the meantime, I really don't see a problem with foreign aid. I feel like you are suggesting that the people who are constantly dying from a lack of access to basic supplies must simply carry the burden and sacrifice their life and deny foreign aid in order to make way for a more permanent solution that comes from within the country.

My problem with this idea is that it's very clear that the governments don't care so I hate to see innocent people dying because the government of the country does not care and does not choose to allocate their resources/wealth in an efficient manner. At the same time, I understand your point that in order for a more permanent solution to be implemented, people are going to have to sacrifice their lives by denying foreign aid and westerners must stop intervening and allow the problem to escalate to the point where the government is forced to take action. I guess I just hate to see that group of people sacrifice their life because god knows how long it would take before the government actually does something...

Very sad world we live in unfortunately.

 

[Freesia88]

I don't know, I really don't know what to think about this. I understand your perspective now as to how it should be a problem that is corrected within the country itself but in the meantime, I really don't see a problem with foreign aid. I feel like you are suggesting that the people who are constantly dying from a lack of access to basic supplies must simply carry the burden and sacrifice their life and deny foreign aid in order to make way for a more permanent solution that comes from within the country.

My problem with this idea is that it's very clear that the governments don't care so I hate to see innocent people dying because the government of the country does not care and does not choose to allocate their resources/wealth in an efficient manner. At the same time, I understand your point that in order for a more permanent solution to be implemented, people are going to have to sacrifice their lives by denying foreign aid and westerners must stop intervening and allow the problem to escalate to the point where the government is forced to take action. I guess I just hate to see that group of people sacrifice their life because god knows how long it would take before the government actually does something...

Very sad world we live in unfortunately.

Thank you for understanding where I am coming from. I do not mean to offend or spit on a gift offered in good faith but the truth is, the help is needed because we have no other choice and in accepting the help, the people are rendered even more powerless. It is a vicious cycle. It burns like acid in my veins when I think that people back home are just accepting their fate as the eternal beggars.

I struggle with the same issues as well. I constantly ask myself what price I am willing to pay to bring this change I yearn for so badly. Pretty much all of my family is still back home so I hate to imagine a situation where they would not have access to whatever health care is available. On the other hand, the status quo cannot remain. Something has to give. Nothing good ever comes easily. The necessary sacrifices will have to be made. I am not certain what the sacrifices will be, but I am committing myself and my future to that cause.

 

[medicalpassion]

Thank you for understanding where I am coming from. I do not mean to offend or spit on a gift offered in good faith but the truth is, the help is needed because we have no other choice and in accepting the help, the people are rendered even more powerless. It is a vicious cycle. It burns like acid in my veins when I think that people back home are just accepting their fate as the eternal beggars.

I struggle with the same issues as well. I constantly ask myself what price I am willing to pay to bring this change I yearn for so badly. Pretty much all of my family is still back home so I hate to imagine a situation where they would not have access to whatever health care is available. On the other hand, the status quo cannot remain. Something has to give. Nothing good ever comes easily. The necessary sacrifices will have to be made. I am not certain what the sacrifices will be, but I am committing myself and my future to that cause.

In all honesty, I never really thought about it from the perspective of how the aid "spoils" the country since they become dependent on foreign aid. I don't know that I'd be willing to give up providing foreign aid simply because it just hurts too much to see people suffer even though a sacrifice must be made.

I think it's pretty clear now that some sort of sacrifice must be made to create a more permanent solution (this sacrifice would most likely be a stop on foreign aid and letting people die until the government finally realizes that there is a dang problem.

Out of curiosity, how are you committing yourself and your future to this cause as you have stated? How do you plan to help this situation without making the poor dependent on foreign aid while corrupt governments live lavish lifestyles? I'm really interested in what can be done about this.😕

 

[Freesia88]

In all honesty, I never really thought about it from the perspective of how the aid "spoils" the country since they become dependent on foreign aid. I don't know that I'd be willing to give up providing foreign aid simply because it just hurts too much to see people suffer even though a sacrifice must be made.

I think it's pretty clear now that some sort of sacrifice must be made to create a more permanent solution (this sacrifice would most likely be a stop on foreign aid and letting people die until the government finally realizes that there is a dang problem.

Out of curiosity, how are you committing yourself and your future to this cause as you have stated? How do you plan to help this situation without making the poor dependent on foreign aid while corrupt governments live lavish lifestyles? I'm really interested in what can be done about this.😕

If I said I had a clue, I would be lying. The magnitude of the task defies imagination.

What I do plan to do first is to educate myself. Acquire the knowledge and experience which will qualify me to comment on the situation legitimately. Getting into a medical school, getting that scientific knowledge, studying health policy and administration pretty much learning as much as I can learn are the ideas that come to my mind right now. Growing up in the country is not enough, I must go back and practice as a doctor, no matter what conditions I meet.

Spreading the word, appealing to the Africans in the diaspora to look home and if possible come home and help. International Aid cannot be avoided, the culture is too deeply entrenched for it to stop suddenly, but it would not be a bad idea to appeal for the aid organizations to mandate that in order for anybody to receive any aid, increasing portions be allocated to educating and training health professionals. Appealing to world economic bodies to enforce sanctions on countries with poor healthcare systems, pressure them into developing these basic areas, appealing for more transparency...simply put, I intend to talk as loud as I can, as often as I can, to whoever will listen, using whatever tools are available to me and hopefully others will join me.

Its not much of a plan, nothing others haven't attempted before, its all I have for now. I am hoping as I mature and learn I will gain better insight.

 

[SLC]

I did a missions trip, it was a great experience to be honest.

I ended going free of charge on one of the US Navy's pacific partnership missions. Two months in Oceania working as a civilian "fill-in" medic (I had EMS background). I also worked as a Portuguese translator in East Timor.

I listed it as an EC on my apps, but focused on what I felt was a bigger/more important project back home. Still, in my interviews, the trip became a major point of conversation. Something that both of my interviewers were interested in learning about.

If you do the right trip, and have the right training to be of use (and can show it) I think they are worth while.

 

[Croc]

Good lord, I had to make an account just to address the stupidity that has come up in this thread.

For those of you saying that medical mission trips are often for rich kids who just want something to write on their application, BS. Even claiming that one small trip is meaningless, is total BS. Are follow-up actions, local fundraisers, revisits, etc better? Of course. That doesn't mean, however that a stand-alone trip is worthless.

Claiming that a stand-alone trip is worthless is so arrogant. You argue that there are people within "20-30 miles that need SIGNIFICANT" health care but do you not realize that there are MILLIONS of people overseas who are in a far worse condition? I guarantee that the needy people you are referring to at least have access to clean water and a roof over the head (even homeless people can find shelter in a wide variety of areas). There are FAMILIES in India who LIVE in the median between two lanes of a highway. The conditions for many people are far beyond anything you could ever imagine, I promise you. I've seen it.

Why are we spending ridiculous amounts of money to help patients with terminal diseases and such when simple things such as water, food, and other life essentials can PREVENT health illnesses? Generally speaking, the majority of people here in the US have access to things that people in India and other third-world countries only DREAM about having. Even the poorest people in this country often have these "luxuries". Yes, there are many people in need here in the US but there are also people who are in more need around the world. That doesn't mean everyone should rush to help people overseas and forget about the problems locally, but having young adults visit and deliver life essentials to impoverished areas is far from worthless. If person A does a 2-3 week trip with no follow-up, and then person B does another stand-alone trip soon after, what's wrong with that? The needy people are still getting access to supplies that most everyone in the US already has access to.

You really should take a look at this video:

http://www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_onie_what_if_our_healthcare_system_kept_us_healthy.html

Amen to that. It's shocking how insensitive and cynical people can be.

 

[rubisco88]

I think going as a medic is worthwhile. At least you have some real training and experience.

 

[Freesia88]

I think going as a medic is worthwhile. At least you have some real training and experience.

Just out of curiosity, and will all due respect, what happens when some sort of conflict breaks out (and we all know they always do) and your embassy decides it is just too dangerous for you to be there and pulls all of you out. What happens?

 

[advair250]

Unless you have valuable experience to offer, save the flight money and donate that to a well established cause. I'm generalizing the good majority(not all) of the 2-3 week mission trips. Do you honestly think they need you there? They don't. You're taking away from their local economies. Why do they need some university kids who've never picked up a hammer before to build a house?

Sorry to be cynical, but voluntourism is such a bad bad phenomena. You should really research more into the consequences they have.

Beating dead horse. Commence.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19899_5-popular-forms-charity-that-arent-helping.html

 

[Freesia88]

Unless you have valuable experience to offer, save the flight money and donate that to a well established cause. I'm generalizing the good majority(not all) of the 2-3 week mission trips. Do you honestly think they need you there? They don't. You're taking away from their local economies. Why do they need some university kids who've never picked up a hammer before to build a house?

Sorry to be cynical, but voluntourism is such a bad bad phenomena. You should really research more into the consequences they have.

Beating dead horse. Commence.

Its an interesting phenomenon actually. We shouldn't need help, but we have been denied help from the right people and offered help from volunteers for so long, we have come to believe that we cannot do without that help, so we do nothing to extricate ourselves from the help which just goes to create a further need for the help...you get the picture.

Kinda like a kid who has a horrible family life and crappy parents who finds love and acceptance in a violent gang or an abusive boyfriend. Its not the best love but hey, its some kind of love.

 

[SLC]

I think going as a medic is worthwhile. At least you have some real training and experience.

Yeah that's how I justified it. Plus it was for 2 months, which while not a long time, allowed us to do some meaningful work in the few villages we visited.

The other thing I liked about this trip was that it was built around the notion of self sustainability. Every chance we got we worked with the local people to teach them about what we were there to do. We also used every "clinic" we set up as practice for mass casualty scenarios (this area of the planet is prone to earthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanos). In fact, the mission was spawned from the aid effort following the 2004 Christmas day tsunami. My sustainability efforts revolved around education. I taught multiple first aid type courses to the local equivalents of EMS. Surprisingly, most had the job with absolutely no training. So we met with the agencies, discussed what they felt they needed most, then taught it. Based on some of the questions I got at the classes, it was both very needed, and very beneficial.

Anyway, I felt like my mission trip experience was a positive one. I understand that not all are worth the time, money, and effort; but many are or at least can be.

 

[Tots]

I did a short trip abroad and I don't regret it. My trip was somewhat different than most however since I had been doing epidemiology research at the time and went with a professor who collects epidemiology data in a rural area of a foreign country(it was unrelated to what I was doing in the lab though but certainly added a perspective to my research). The experience ended up being a cultural experience more than anything else. Certainly I learned a little about medicine and a little more about epidemiology but the greatest learning experience was simply seeing how people lived in other parts of the world. I hope to go back to this country again in the future - but probably as a tourist since I fell in love with the place and would love to see more. 🙂

 

[couldabeenadoc]

Guidelines for Premedical and Medical Students Providing Patient Care
During Clinical Experiences Abroad

" ...While many students have had beneficial experiences through involvement in patient care activities abroad, and services have been provided to people in need, the potential for harm and abuse in these situations cannot be ignored. Participation of inadequately educated and untrained students in these situations can have negative consequences including:

Harm done to the patient.

Physical harm to yourself.

Legal issues with local authorities.

Putting acceptance to medical school and residency training programs at risk.

The potential for being involved with a fraudulent company.

Read more here;

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]https://www.aamc.org/download/181690/data/guidelinesforstudentsprovidingpatientcare.pdf ..