Medical school DOES matter When Applying For Residency

[Entol]

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Okay I'm getting annoyed because this is coming up in several threads.

People always seem to be saying that the medical school matters very little in applying for residency. Their reasoning behind this is would a residency director rather have the #1 person at ECU with 270 board score or the 170th class rank person at Harvard who failed his Step 1 twice? Well here the choice is clear, the ECU person is far superior.

But think about it, how many people at Harvard are even in the lowest 25th percentile? That's right, only 25%. 74% are higher. These 74% match to amazing programs (or, IF THEY CHOOSE, to less highly ranked programs because of location) and the other 25% match to less competitive (but still decent) programs.

If this doesn't make sense, check out the match lists. I understand that UC Irvine had two people match to Hopkins this year. That's great for them, and I'm certain that these UCI graduates will make fine residents because they worked hard. However, compare this to the consistent 30-40 matches Yale makes every year into top 5 programs in each field. Does this mean Yale students are just smarter than UCI students? Personally I say no, but either way I don't think that really accounts for the huge difference in match lists. I think more often than not, the name is what attracts residency directors to look at a student or to grant them an interview.

I also remember being told that "Your undergrad does not matter in apply to medical school." I went to a very low-ranked public state school. Now I'm attending med school in an institution that's ranked top 5 by USNWR. I look through the list of my classmates and their undergrad institutions and all I see is people whose undergrads were Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Wash U, Wellesley, Penn, etc etc. Once again, there are a good number of people from low-name public schools, ones from random private schools I've never even heard of, etc. Those people probably worked their butts off to get here, and it's great for them. But really, when 50% of your class comes from top name ivy-league or comparable schools, doesn't anyone ever ask why?

Anyway, my point is that medical school name definitely matters to residency directors. I welcome any disagreements.


Entol

 

[fuegorama]

Sakes!!
Thank god for good taste buds. I was about to bite, but I'm sure it will just taste bitter.
F

 

[celticmists18]

I seem to have to post this a lot (and no one ever listens) but what people (before yourself) were saying about you med school not matter that much IS TRUE. my father sits on the OBGYN residency committee for his hospital and the word straight from the horses mouth is that what med school you attended is just about the last thing they look at, unless it was some absolutely horrific school or you are a foreign grad . . .but of course you are free to believe what you want.

(and FYI: UCI is a very up and coming med school, the hospital there does A BUNCH of research and does the most organ transplants in the state)

 

[ny skindoc]

There is no question that it does matter where you went to med school, just as to how much it depends on several factors.A highly prestigious school in the top 10-15 will certainly have its graduates perceived in a way other schools may not-(Nearly everyone from Columbia matches at elite institutions,even in competitive specialties).."Average" applicants from these places will still stand out.It guarantees them nothing but opportunities at "name" hosptals are much better.Some places "ranked" slightly lower such as NYU have terrific reputations among residency directors and match a high percentage at top institutions.Once you pass the so-called "top 25" rank,the schools name means little.Overall.. individual accomplishment is the key,but it is recognized that some schools have such a highly selected student body that it does count.For the great majority of US medical grads where they went to school will end up mattering little in terms of achieving their professional goals when compared to other variables.

 

[Entol]

First, I apologize for choosing UCI as an example. Anyone is lucky to be accepted to any California school, really.

Second, I can provide a counterexample: My classmates mother is, ironically, in a similar position to your father: she is on the Ob/Gyn residency committee at a "ranked" hospital. The advice she gave to her own son is to pay extra to attend the high-ranked medical school over a state school for the name recognition. She mentioned specifically that applicants from schools who have been known to send strong residents in the past are immediately in a position of advantage.

I seem to have to post this a lot (and no one ever listens) but what people (before yourself) were saying about you med school not matter that much IS TRUE. my father sits on the OBGYN residency committee for his hospital and the word straight from the horses mouth is that what med school you attended is just about the last thing they look at, unless it was some absolutely horrific school or you are a foreign grad . . .but of course you are free to believe what you want.

(and FYI: UCI is a very up and coming med school, the hospital there does A BUNCH of research and does the most organ transplants in the state)

 

[Entol]

I apologize, there is one thing I was unclear about. When I said "name recognition" is important, I was not referring to US News rankings specifically. Yale, for example, is a school that is consistently dropping in the rankings, yet they are regarded as high as Harvard, Duke, Wash U, Penn, etc. NYU, too, might be not amazingly ranked for medical school, but the name recognition might take you places as well.

This same idea applies for "local" medical schools. Any Texas residency director would rave about the amazing medical school at UTSW. However, ask a residency director in Boston about how they rate UTSW, and they may have very little opinion about the strength of that particular school.

No residency director has a copy of the US News rankings posted on their wall. My point is that, like all people, they like to hear names they know.

Entol

There is no question that it does matter where you went to med school, just as to how much it depends on several factors.A highly prestigious school in the top 10-15 will certainly have its graduates perceived in a way other schools may not-(Nearly everyone from Columbia matches at elite institutions,even in competitive specialties).."Average" applicants from these places will still stand out.It guarantees them nothing but opportunities at "name" hosptals are much better.Some places "ranked" slightly lower such as NYU have terrific reputations among residency directors and match a high percentage at top institutions.Once you pass the so-called "top 25" rank,the schools name means little.Overall.. individual accomplishment is the key,but it is recognized that some schools have such a highly selected student body that it does count.For the great majority of US medical grads where they went to school will end up mattering little in terms of achieving their professional goals when compared to other variables.

 

[deltamed]

It's true that name matters, but less than you think for medical school. The reason why harvard yale etc. place so many people in good residencies is because they started off with really smart, hard working students (plus the east coast has a good majority of the top programs).

But all US MD granting med schools are pretty good quality, PLUS there is a standardized way to measure applicants - the USMLE. If there is a 260 score from a no-name school, versus a 230 from harvard, I bet all other things being equal the 260 applicant will be chosen. Of course Harvard has more 260 applicants in the first place so you can't really say its the harvard name that made the difference.

This isn't true of law school because there are so many of them and there are no good standards.

 

[Sweet Tea]

Okay I'm getting annoyed because this is coming up in several threads.

People always seem to be saying that the medical school matters very little in applying for residency. Their reasoning behind this is would a residency director rather have the #1 person at ECU with 270 board score or the 170th class rank person at Harvard who failed his Step 1 twice? Well here the choice is clear, the ECU person is far superior.

Well, we here at ECU like to think of ourselves as being far superior. 😛 (oh lay off, it's exam time and i'm loopy)

I think you need to compare apples to apples, and since you named ECU and since I go to ECU, I'm going to use ECU and Harvard as my examples. ECU makes no great claims to being a research-driven school with research-driven students. We only accept in-state students, and we have a very, very strong drive to go back and become primary care physicians in underserved areas, especially eastern NC. That's not saying that we don't have people go on to residencies in optho at Mayo, but most people are attracted to ECU because of the focus on primary care. If you took a poll of my classmates now, most of them would tell you that they want to go into FP, IM, EM, or Peds; it's just the kind of student we attract. That's not to say that ECU is completely devoid of research; in fact I'm presenting my research project at a regional conference in October and will submit it to the national conference in April, but it's not a common thing.

If you look at the rankings, ECU places very well in rural medicine, family medicine, and other aspects of primary care. Those are the areas that the school has chosen to focus on. Duke does very well in the more typically competitive programs, but then they also give their students a year to do research and distinguish themselves in their chosen specialty; they should have higher rankings in those specialties than we do! Compare Duke and Harvard, or compare ECU and UNC. We'll win over UNC; after all, we're fully accredited.

 

[Entol]

Thank you for your insightful response. Your argument is a very important one to address.

Before doing that, let me say how admirable it is for ECU students to be entering into primary care in undeserved areas. Way to go 🙂

My thoughts are as follows: You present ECU as a primary-care intensive school. Let's say a student at ECU is interested in matching into neurosurgery. Do you believe that he or she would be able to match into a high-powered research-intensive program if the residency director at this program had the impression that you are presenting here, that ECU is a some sort of a "primary-care machine" ? Even if the residency director completely respected ECU's mission, wouldn't he or she be hesitant to believe that a student from ECU would have the research experience necessary to perform well in this residency program?

This notion that ECU is more oriented toward primary care seems to support my argument that medical school does matter when applying to residencies. Please let me know if I failed to express my opinion well in some part of this reply.

Entol

Well, we here at ECU like to think of ourselves as being far superior. 😛 (oh lay off, it's exam time and i'm loopy)

I think you need to compare apples to apples, and since you named ECU and since I go to ECU, I'm going to use ECU and Harvard as my examples. ECU makes no great claims to being a research-driven school with research-driven students. We only accept in-state students, and we have a very, very strong drive to go back and become primary care physicians in underserved areas, especially eastern NC. That's not saying that we don't have people go on to residencies in optho at Mayo, but most people are attracted to ECU because of the focus on primary care. If you took a poll of my classmates now, most of them would tell you that they want to go into FP, IM, EM, or Peds; it's just the kind of student we attract. That's not to say that ECU is completely devoid of research; in fact I'm presenting my research project at a regional conference in October and will submit it to the national conference in April, but it's not a common thing.

If you look at the rankings, ECU places very well in rural medicine, family medicine, and other aspects of primary care. Those are the areas that the school has chosen to focus on. Duke does very well in the more typically competitive programs, but then they also give their students a year to do research and distinguish themselves in their chosen specialty; they should have higher rankings in those specialties than we do! Compare Duke and Harvard, or compare ECU and UNC. We'll win over UNC; after all, we're fully accredited.

 

[Sage880]

In my opinion, the school rankings only matter if you're in the middle of the pack at your school and got an average USMLE 1 score. Yes, being in the middle of the pack in Harvard is better than being in the middle of the pack at somewhere else.

But do really well and seperate yourself from the rest of your class and it doesn't matter where you come from. You'll get whatever you want regardless.

 

[Sweet Tea]

Okay, I see what you're saying, but someone who wants to go into neurosurgery from ECU (and it does happen) knows what they're getting into. They know that ECU is very well respected as a primary care facility, so they'll go out of their way to do research, rotations, or electives in neurology, neurosurgery, or neuro research (disclaimer: i HATED neuroscience and am going out of my way to avoid all these available opportunities, so my apologies if my examples are off). They'll also do what anyone else would and work their tail off studying for the USMLEs. So yes, while ECU is might be associated on primary care, there are ways that a student can show their dedication and drive to more competitive specialties.

Chances are, this student did not enter into ECU thinking that they wanted to do neurosurgery and only fell in love with the field after they started med school. Hey, it happens. So while it is up to the student to prove that they belong in that neurosurgery residency, students at other research-focused schools also have to prove themselves. No one waltzes into these highly competitive positions; that's what makes them highly competitive.

 

[omarsaleh66]

Yeah I agree.

Name matters: Harvard vs most state schools; harvard is gonna help big time.

Small name state schools have their advantages too. State schools are so cheap compared to private med schools that carry big names but also big debt.

Then if u go to state school and work hard u can match into neurosurgery. There are alot of variables that can help u if u dont have a big name: doing well on USMLE step1, doing away rotations at harvard and blowing them away, research, etc...

Even if a state med schools at a small name does these things, harvard stduents may still have the advantage, but Im sure alot peopel still dont wanna be 250 in debt when they can go to a state school for waay cheaper and still get the residency of their choice. Plus a big name residency doenst really matter unless u are trying to go into academic medicine. U could go to some small name radiology program and still get a job as a radiologist and make a decent living.

BUt i do agree with u, the name does matter alot more than we give credit for. Especiallty if u are trying to get "derm or smething hard" and ur small name school doenst have a derm departmetn, then things can get really hard and the big name could help when u inteview at other derm or whatever departments.

Omar

 

[Entol]

I completely agree with everything you wrote here. A person from ECU interested in neurosurgery COULD match into neurosurgery. This is true.

However, my question is not _could_ he or she match into neurosurgery but what is the relative difficulty compared to a similar student attending Johns Hopkins? Do you believe that two students, both top 25th percentile, one from JHU and one from ECU, getting ~235 on their step 1 would receive similar interviews when applying to neurosurgery programs?

Entol

Okay, I see what you're saying, but someone who wants to go into neurosurgery from ECU (and it does happen) knows what they're getting into. They know that ECU is very well respected as a primary care facility, so they'll go out of their way to do research, rotations, or electives in neurology, neurosurgery, or neuro research (disclaimer: i HATED neuroscience and am going out of my way to avoid all these available opportunities, so my apologies if my examples are off). They'll also do what anyone else would and work their tail off studying for the USMLEs. So yes, while ECU is might be associated on primary care, there are ways that a student can show their dedication and drive to more competitive specialties.

Chances are, this student did not enter into ECU thinking that they wanted to do neurosurgery and only fell in love with the field after they started med school. Hey, it happens. So while it is up to the student to prove that they belong in that neurosurgery residency, students at other research-focused schools also have to prove themselves. No one waltzes into these highly competitive positions; that's what makes them highly competitive.

 

[Mumpu]

I've said this before and I'll say it again -- where people match is not indicative of how good the school is. People at my school (Colorado) tend to apply locally. So the match list has very few chest-thumpers with a big H on their sweatshirts. At the same time, the percentage of people who match to their #1 choice is very high and people who do apply to very competitive programs almost always match there. On the other hand, if you are a gunner who went to a Top 10 med school, chances are you will want a Top 10 residency as well. Hence an impressive-looking match list. For some reason this simple fact evades most people.

The only time your college/med school matters is if you absolutely must have The Big Name on your diploma. I want to work in Colorado and I'm more than happy with my state school (in fact, talking to friends at some Top 10 schools I would argue that I'm getting much better clinical education). And yes, as a graduate from Swarthmore I could've done better -- I turned down acceptances and withdrew applications from some pretty top schools.

 

[automaton]

i think if anything else you should go to the highest ranked school possible because then you'd be less tempted to justify yourself like the poster above.

 

[BenzML320]

How is it that you picked UCI as your example, Entol? Just curious.

 

[Entol]

How is it that you picked UCI as your example, Entol? Just curious.

Actually just sort of popped into my head. I'm not from California so I did not apply to that school, but I would definitely feel honored to attend there. To be honest, I'm not even sure of its ranking.

Sorry again!

 

[celticmists18]

since i am always wrong this is my last remark on the subject . . .
I think it also depends what side of the country you plan to practice on. The West Coast is less judgemental about the school you attended, believe me I am finding that out about college since i started here in philly. Yale is still impressive, but it is not the end-all-and-be-all it seems to be out in the East. Also, you may think a school is big name but when it comes to the residency committee it may be viewed in a completely different light (one that springs to mind is Stanford, if you want to know why PM me but I refuse to get into a pissing match with people)

 

[EctopicFetus]

BTW Michigan is losing to San Diego State???? 21-17 still early but god thats gotta be embarassing...

 

[fourthyearmed]

I've said this before and I'll say it again -- where people match is not indicative of how good the school is. People at my school (Colorado) tend to apply locally. So the match list has very few chest-thumpers with a big H on their sweatshirts. At the same time, the percentage of people who match to their #1 choice is very high and people who do apply to very competitive programs almost always match there. On the other hand, if you are a gunner who went to a Top 10 med school, chances are you will want a Top 10 residency as well. Hence an impressive-looking match list. For some reason this simple fact evades most people.

Exactly! It is the same in the South and in Texas. People tend to stay in the region and while there are some very good schools such as Vandy, Emory, Duke, etc. in the South and then Baylor and UTSW in Texas they are not as highly ranked as Harvard and Hopkins. But do we care? No. We just hope to match at our #1 choice and that's not Harvard. So our match lists are not as impressive. So what, we're happy where we are! Therefore how can you compare schools?

 

[pikachu]

Yes, finally people have brought up the issue of "nepotism" as well as regionalism in residency. Of course there are exceptions but many of the supercharged university hospitals are in the northeast and are very incestuous. For example if you are applying to neurosurgery from harvard, chances are the faculty at harvard is very well connected at yale, columbia, hopkins, etc. and you will do quite well in your applications there (if you have good letters). Residencies are conservative and rely heavily on personal connections. They will take applicants whom they "know" meaning people who have rotated with them or who have a nice letter from one of their buddies. If you go to a school where there are lots of big name "buddies" then you're at an advantage.

What those who believe in the snob value of the big name schools are missing is that even at those lowly state schools there are many renowned researchers and physicians, even though they may not fall into your lap on every rotation. everything else equalizes since you can't tell jack from pass-fail grades, and board scores are board scores no matter what school you come from. I have yet to see proof that USMLE adds another 20 points to your board score when they see you come from an ivy league med school.

 

[dancinjenn]

I have to agree that location does matter. I'm in the state os MI and all three of our medical schools are state run...therefore the "state" vs "private" doesn't come into play. While UofM does rank high in the US News, that is for research, and Wayne isn't sloppy in that department either. Wayne also has over twice the number of medical students that U of M does, we also have the largest medical campus, the most hospitals to rotate at, 18 to be exact,for years 3 and 4 ..etc. So when area hospitals look at their applicants the most important thing is the board scores, because odds are that at least 1/3 of the applicants are from Wayne, another 1/3 from the other two MI schools, and 1/3 out of staters...

 

[HiddenTruth]

I think the biggest flaw in your whole arguement is that HARVARD may be #1 according USNWR and research--however, it's not NUMBER 1 in many people's books--therefore, there is no such thing as #1. People have said this over and over, but I'd like to reiterate that, sure, going to a top 10 USNWR ranking med school is more likely to get u into a top 10 USNWR ranking school--but what if you don't want to go there?-- which is tru for MANY MANY med students. Not everyone cares to go to harvard and therefore, in many people's books it's not number 1. End of story--this is such a subjective arguement.

You make a valid point that name matters--we all know that to an extent. All I am saying is that name matters ONLY if you want to go there. But for many people, there are more reasons for going somewhere than the USNWR. Therefore, we shouldn't even be talking abt this. Plus, to directly address your statement: If you really wish to go to a top 10 place (and ure not comming from a top place), then work your arse off and you will get there. We all know that name matters to a certain degree as most people have stated. I am just implying that your statement is LIMITED to those that WANT to go to those places; for everyone else, it doesn't matter--cuz they don't want to go to those places to begin with. Know what I'm sayin'?

HT

 

[ice_23]

Just do well on your boards and you'll make up for any "name" issues with your medical school. It's not like getting into medical school where you get above 33 or whatever on the MCAT, and you're cool, even compared to the gal who got a 42 so long as you're novel in some non-medical way. If you crush the boards for residency, you'll probably get interviews wherever you want.

It's a great equalizer.

-Ice

 

[Mumpu]

So people at "top" schools claim the name matters and people elsewhere claim it doesn't. I'm yet to see a definite pattern for good or bad interns, residents or attendings based on where they went to medical school. Go where you will be happy.

 

[Pixye1]

i do think that your school does matter but it's not the biggest factor. Also...if you look at UCI or any other Cali school......their matches are predominantely in california. You failed to think that most of us would rather be instate than out of state. Sure Harvard is impressive....but personally I'd rather stay in Cali then go and face the cold in Massachusettes because the quality of life here is more suitable to my taste. 😉 So I think that's also something to look at when comparing match-lists....location.....that's a big factor for many when choosing where to go. Most people after medical school are married...it's not that easy to just up-and-go somewhere for a more competetive residency.

 

[novacek88]

It's one thing to say that a name helps one match. It's another thing to suggest that you NEED to be in a name school to match. Everyone knows that Harvard grads will have their choce as to where they will match. That's not the issue. The issue is when someone feels they have no chance a big name program because they didn't attend Harvard. We have seen plenty of DO's at top hospitals like Hopkins, Mayo and the Cleveland Clinic.

 

[dongfeng41]

Agree with what many of you said. The main issue here is- what defines 'success' to you personally. Perhaps the original poster feels that name recognition is a very important aspect of his life, (and that's perfectly OK) but for many, there are other variables involved. If you want to talk about name recognition, then why not talk about income? In general people in private practice earn more than people in academia, and name recognition really matters for academic positions. One could easily generalize and say that people who go to "lower ranked" schools in general may have lower board scores, but it is made up by better social and patient skills (in general). These are more important attributes in being recruited by a group practice. They could care less if you went to Harvard or Hopkins. If you can't get along with people, you're not going to be liked. Of course, it's nice to come from Harvard, and be an empathetic person.

Many of us are at the stage of our life where there is more to life than "how high my school is ranked." People have wives and husbands, kids and other more important factors that matter in their life. For many, being at a more "benign" residency program is more important than name recognition. For others, matching as a couple in a state with a nice climate is the main factor. It's no longer high school when we're applying for colleges & constantly looking at USNWR rankings. It's also not law school, where name REALLY matters and expected income differs dramatically based on where you went to school. We're all going to be doctors, and in the end, it's about the care of the patients, and not our ego.

Bottom line: if you think name recognition matters most for you, and that defines your success, Fine. But that doesn't mean that everybody else has that same measure of success as you do.

 

[HiddenTruth]

Agree with what many of you said. The main issue here is- what defines 'success' to you personally. Perhaps the original poster feels that name recognition is a very important aspect of his life, (and that's perfectly OK) but for many, there are other variables involved. If you want to talk about name recognition, then why not talk about income? In general people in private practice earn more than people in academia, and name recognition really matters for academic positions. One could easily generalize and say that people who go to "lower ranked" schools in general may have lower board scores, but it is made up by better social and patient skills (in general). These are more important attributes in being recruited by a group practice. They could care less if you went to Harvard or Hopkins. If you can't get along with people, you're not going to be liked. Of course, it's nice to come from Harvard, and be an empathetic person.

Many of us are at the stage of our life where there is more to life than "how high my school is ranked." People have wives and husbands, kids and other more important factors that matter in their life. For many, being at a more "benign" residency program is more important than name recognition. For others, matching as a couple in a state with a nice climate is the main factor. It's no longer high school when we're applying for colleges & constantly looking at USNWR rankings. It's also not law school, where name REALLY matters and expected income differs dramatically based on where you went to school. We're all going to be doctors, and in the end, it's about the care of the patients, and not our ego.

Bottom line: if you think name recognition matters most for you, and that defines your success, Fine. But that doesn't mean that everybody else has that same measure of success as you do.

i couldn't have said it any better. Well said, dong! 😀

 

[shocker]

You all have made great points, and I agree 100%. I only chime in because I go to ECU and I am very happy with my choice over a northeastern private school(tuition=40,000) vs. my tuition and fees of 4900. I do think it would be harder for me if was in the bottom 25%....So maybe I should pay attention to the prof. flying through biochemical pathways in front of me.

 

[ilim01]

Hello friends and future colleages,

I am now in my last year of Pre-Med and have applied to both state and private schools in New York.

I have been interested in this question for a while now, because I plan to become a dermatologist (thus I need to place into a very competitive residency)

Lets say I get into NYU and Downstate, do you think in my case it would be wiser to choose NYU ?

 

[Fermata]

Hello friends and future colleages,

I am now in my last year of Pre-Med and have applied to both state and private schools in New York.

I have been interested in this question for a while now, because I plan to become a dermatologist (thus I need to place into a very competitive residency)

Lets say I get into NYU and Downstate, do you think in my case it would be wiser to choose NYU ?

The difference in reputation between the two is not very significant.

If you were wanting to see how a school's reputation helps matching into dermatology then check out the match lists to get an idea(Read: look at Yale's match list).

 

[ilim01]

The difference in reputation between the two is not very significant.

If you were wanting to see how a school's reputation helps matching into dermatology then check out the match lists to get an idea(Read: look at Yale's match list).

Thanks for the information, where can I get these match lists ?

 

[HiddenTruth]

Thanks for the information, where can I get these match lists ?

there is a thread on this site that has many schools' 2004 match lists. You can search for it, or if you want to find out about a particular school's match list--go to their website or google it. Good luck!

HT

 

[uhhuh]

... We'll win over UNC; after all, we're fully accredited.

I'm sorry, what is that statement in reference to?

 

[phillyfornia]

i've heard that med school name does matter, although not that much. in fact, i have even heard chairs saying that an applicants "academic pedigree", which includes not only med school but undergrad as well, is something that they consider when selecting applicants for their residency programs.

 

[starayamoskva]

Hmmm let's see, I can go to Harvard for residency and spend the first two years watching other people do surgery, while being a human retractor and spending the rest of the time on scut work or I can go to my state school where I have been allowed to perform C-sections as primary surgery, have done over 80% of an paniculectomy, have done an omentectomy and have opened and closed the abdomen multiple times all as a med student.
Now there is a choice.

 

[celticmists18]

Agree with what many of you said. The main issue here is- what defines 'success' to you personally. Perhaps the original poster feels that name recognition is a very important aspect of his life, (and that's perfectly OK) but for many, there are other variables involved. If you want to talk about name recognition, then why not talk about income? In general people in private practice earn more than people in academia, and name recognition really matters for academic positions. One could easily generalize and say that people who go to "lower ranked" schools in general may have lower board scores, but it is made up by better social and patient skills (in general). These are more important attributes in being recruited by a group practice. They could care less if you went to Harvard or Hopkins. If you can't get along with people, you're not going to be liked. Of course, it's nice to come from Harvard, and be an empathetic person.

Many of us are at the stage of our life where there is more to life than "how high my school is ranked." People have wives and husbands, kids and other more important factors that matter in their life. For many, being at a more "benign" residency program is more important than name recognition. For others, matching as a couple in a state with a nice climate is the main factor. It's no longer high school when we're applying for colleges & constantly looking at USNWR rankings. It's also not law school, where name REALLY matters and expected income differs dramatically based on where you went to school. We're all going to be doctors, and in the end, it's about the care of the patients, and not our ego.

Bottom line: if you think name recognition matters most for you, and that defines your success, Fine. But that doesn't mean that everybody else has that same measure of success as you do.

amen, finally someone who is on the same wavelength as I am! as long as I have the opportunity to practice medicine in a place I like (back home in CA hopefully) then I could care less how the "reputation" of my med school stacks up with others at the cocktail party

 

[DrRads101]

I've said this before and I'll say it again -- where people match is not indicative of how good the school is. People at my school (Colorado) tend to apply locally. So the match list has very few chest-thumpers with a big H on their sweatshirts. At the same time, the percentage of people who match to their #1 choice is very high and people who do apply to very competitive programs almost always match there. On the other hand, if you are a gunner who went to a Top 10 med school, chances are you will want a Top 10 residency as well. Hence an impressive-looking match list. For some reason this simple fact evades most people.

The only time your college/med school matters is if you absolutely must have The Big Name on your diploma. I want to work in Colorado and I'm more than happy with my state school (in fact, talking to friends at some Top 10 schools I would argue that I'm getting much better clinical education). And yes, as a graduate from Swarthmore I could've done better -- I turned down acceptances and withdrew applications from some pretty top schools.

This is absolutely the smartest post in this thread. Good work--you actually figured it out. The same people that seem to need a "Harvard" attached to their name are the same people that apply to "high ranked" specialties across the country. Whereas most of us just want to have a wife and kids and be a good doctor in the area we grew up. Most of us don't want to be single our whole lives bouncing around the country pursuing prestigious badges. At my school, Northwestern, there are a lot of kids from so-called prestigious undergrads, and I'm sure they applied to Northwestern partly because of a name or ranking. A lot of us, however, just want to stay in Chicago so Northwestern is the place to do it. Now that I'm here, I'm sorry, no matter how high I score on the boards, I'm not leaving my friends, family, fiance, etc., just to pursue some high ranked residency in Boston when I can make the same amount of money here in Chicago, and be where I want to be. Do you really think students at University of Iowa are going to leave Iowa at a high rate just to get some residency that US News puts at the top.... 2000 miles away from their home and family??

Let's be realistic folks. Most people don't care about prestige--they care about their life. Having an MD is prestigious enough and will make you enough money to be quite happy, but if you are moving all around the country in search of your next badge, before you know it you're 35 years old, single, and completely burnt out because you've been running at 80mph your whole life when the treadmill is only going about 20.

I mean, if you are still defining your "success" in life by how highly ranked your residency program is by the time you do it, then you quite honestly may need to grow up. Many posters in here have made some good points--count me and most of my friends at Northwestern on the list of people that just want to stay in the area after we graduate, and not move around the country away from our friends, family, and environment just to get something highly ranked. Location location location. Most of us just want to be good doctors in an area we like. Anything more than that is just self-validation that some people seem to need, but most people don't. I'm sure if the ivies were located in Texas then I'm sure all the Texas med schools would match much better there, because, gasp, more people from Texas would want to apply to them! 🙂